Society's Failure

[luniac]

that's the point of some of the anger here of the philosophers. If you are given RED PILL AND BLUE PILL as options, and you freely decide RED over Blue, is that a real choice? It's a decision. We have power to decide and evaluate. Pull back the curtain even wider and you see what you thought was real free-will choice was pre-programmed options overlayed onto and within the same system( with similiar results) as before

in 2016 as it was in 1916 and 1716 or 1016, your choices are still within the same board game for the most part.

is there a third pill?

 

[luniac]

Nor did I.

As we learn the ropes of the fast lane, we make our own pills.

i like the red pill, seems to encapsulate the things i like. What kind of new pill stuff r u talking about that doesn't go into the red pill?

 

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[Buickestate]

i like the red pill, seems to encapsulate the things i like. What kind of new pill stuff r u talking about that doesn't go into the red pill?

The red pill is about embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality. Being aware of the harsh reality out there is eye opening, more often though, it can be overwhelming, some people just can't cope with it. It's information overload, they begin to stagnate and fester as they try to process realities. There is a whole industry based on helping people cope with the harshness of reality. The red pill is not for everyone. Sadly most who have taken the red pill just sit there festering, content to be upset with everything and themselves while doing nothing to help.

The red pill only opens your mind to the realities. It allows you to see things as they are. Once seen you can never go back, you can only go forward, or stop. The red pill doesn't give you the tools you'll need to move forward, just the vision of what is.

"The new kind of pill stuff" is what comes after the red pill leaves you in the "Now What?" frame of mind. They are the pills that will kick your a$$ and make you see what can be and how to get there. They are education and motivation, they are tools that will help you create a new and better reality.

Some might argue that MJ's book is the Red Pill, I would argue that the Red Pill is what brought us to MJ's book.

 

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[Daniel Hickey]

I keep seeing the phrase "help others" or "bring value to someone else's life" aren't we just coating the cold hard truth? We aren't "helping others" by feeding them the luxurious food they want. We can create a product that stops all of the toppings from my deluxe burger from falling out, and people will buy it, but we're not helping them... we're not bringing value to their lives. We are simply taking advantage of their non Fast-Lane mindset. Which is completely OK, you do what you gotta do to get rich. However, we are not helping these people.

MJ said in his book that we can't focus on the symptoms, we need to focus on the root problem that is causing the symptoms. We are where we are today (or heading in the direction we are) because we already decided to focus on the problem, so we no longer have to suffer the symptoms. The problem is the person, the symptom is their want for the deluxe burger holder. The only way to make money, is to take advantage of people's symptoms. It's why a doctor immediately goes to the prescription sheet - he makes more money with the symptoms he's controlling, rather than if he fixed the problem. And why shouldn't he? If he's benefiting so much, and his patients are convinced he's actually helping, then power to him! Take advantage of them! Take advantage of their unwillingness to focus on the problem.

But do not kid yourself into thinking we are helping them.

 

[Newpollz]

No.

The way you wrote this gives the control to someone out side of you. If you wait for society to let you do anything....you'll be stuck where you are your entire life.

You are, and have always been, and always will be...in control of where you are in life.

Congratulations, you've woken up...now take control of your life and make a decision of where you are going to go now.

No, it's time for society to stop suppressing all the different meanings of responsibility. Let us define our responsibility, and support it. It's good that some of us are waking up, but society is really trying to F*ck with me and I have no control over it. Society can invade your home, put your own children against you, brainwash you scrupulously to believe that " hey it's normal, hey it's a free world". I'm with you @Daniel Hickey, F*ck society and their idiotic beliefs they try to impose on us.

 

[Newpollz]

If society was indeed in control, then everyone would end up exactly the same. However, that's not the case.

There are plenty of young millionaires that made it. Now ask yourself? Why are they different than you?

The answer as rough as it may be to hear is because they don't/didn't have these self limiting beliefs. They don't/didn't care what the world told them was right, acceptable or the norm. They were mavericks! They blazed their own trail.

And you know what: You can do the exact same thing. YOU ARE IN CONTROL of the decisions you make, of the things you believe, of the effort you put forth.

Once you take 100% accountability for your life and your future, the world opens up to you. You can do or be anything you want.

Thanks, tomorrow I will go out and jerk off in the middle of the street to support prostate cancer. I will put a lot of effort into not getting caught. I also strongly believe in Scientology and the demon lord Chtulu. You don't have a problem?

 

[Newpollz]

You having a bad day? Seem a little angry.

I thought this was a business forum and business is about growing, improving, and optimizing. Not sure what the problem is.

Yeah you're right, I was just invited to spread some random anger and I did. I'm good now.

 

[Newpollz]

There seems to be little money in truth that leads to worldwide change/action, but lots of money in manipulation/marketing, social engineering, pulling the strings on people with desired products, using Money as the tool for such leverage, etc

That's right. They will manipulate you, trick you, deceive you, even for a good cause. Think about the Ice Bucket Challenge, Movember, World Vision, Daily Food Guide, P90X, Flu Vaccine, Boxing Day, Cyber Monday, Black Friday, Earth Day, Clinton Global Intiative, Gates and Zuckerberg who are actually ''giving away'' their money to charities and companies they own. When was the last time a celebrity gave money to a cause that one of his or her relative did not die from?

We are brainwashing you, but hey it's for your own good so chill! Why are you angry? Anger is lame. You should eat. Call double pizza instead and channel that anger with our new meatlovers special. 1 - 800 343 - 0343, double pizza.... yeahhh yeahhh... hmmmm delicious!!!!

 

[Buickestate]

Has society ever been well? It still seems to work fine for the average person. If you found your way here that means you don't fit in society the way average people do. Your choice is to be upset and grow angry as you watch your peers obediently and somewhat contently blend into society , or you can choose to be happy knowing that there is better way to live your own life, and work towards that.

We all have control, we all make choices. both good and bad ones. As we age, I hope that we learn to reduce the number of bad choices we make.

My advice is that you go make one good choice today.

 

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[luniac]

I disagree. Debating or not whether we have control over our lives is one of the first things the great Philosophers did. If Illumination has become synonymous with self-realization and the true self, being regarded as a substantial essence being covered over by social conditioning (to quote Wikipedia). Whether the debate is with oneself or others, I wouldn't go to the Buddha while he is on the verge of illumination and tell him he is only doing mental masturbation. If ignorance is bliss to you that is your perception. By saying ''Go out and do something that brings actual value to people's lives'' is like saying places like this and Reddit don't have their place in the world. I am following my path and I am working on myself, I am not here to seek guidance, I'm here to debate with you guys and learn and become a better person.

What do you want to debate?

 

[Newpollz]

What do you want to debate?

Well I am already debating that society does have massive influence on us and that it doesn't have to be that way (we can boycott, we can exchange real information as long as we keep fighting censorship, dishonest marketing and so on. I am already doing so with my Fastlane). All you people seem to be telling me is: Hey you need to find your path. Just chill. Don't worry. Ignore society...You can't do nothing. Things have always been like this.

Thanks, really. But that's not debating.

 

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[Buickestate]

Yes society has been well in the past (from not only my perception but many people). That is why I think it sucks more and more now because everyone wants to become his own God and values, principles, patience, politeness, manners, effort have all become optional. It didn't use to be that way and I can prove it.

Take anything built from the early 1900s and compare it with the same product today. It has been so watered down, led painted, mass produced, assembled by children, refurbished, recertified. That is one of the main reasons why people are seeking antiques, not only because they are rare and bring nostaligia. But because that shit was built to last!

What if most of those degradations in society that you mention are only geographical, as in only in your area? I recently crossed the United states from Port Huron Michigan to Sweet Grass Montana and I can tell you for a fact that the level of degradation in those areas of social functions vary from state to state county to county and city to city. I would much rather move to Billings Montana than to Toronto Ontario base purely on my own observations of the level of societal degradation. Then if you were to travel the globe you will find more variations to societal norms, some will even offend you, and you'll fall in love with others.

What can you, yourself do today in your life that can start to reverse the degradation in society that offends you? Live by your values and principles? be more patient and polite? Paying it forward does work.

I would much rather have a 2016 F150, over and 1916 model t pick up as a daily driver. That said yes there are many products that were better made back then, today many products are built to wear out and break over a period of time so they will need to be replaced. I have a prime example of a quality item built about 100 years ago right in front of me. I'm currently stitching up some automotive seats on a Singer industrial sewing machine who's serial number indicates that it was built in a batch of machines issues to the US army between 1911 and 1930. I had it serviced when I bought it, just needed to be cleaned and oiled along with some minor adjustments. I did change the old original electric motor for a modern motor with electronic speed control so I can slow it down and do detailed work, I'm doing a few car seats a day not a parachute every 30 minutes, and also that I value my ability to hear, that old motor was very loud.

I'm willing to bet you that some part of what you are wearing right now was sewn by a child on a vintage Singer industrial machine or a licensed/knockoff of one

 

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[DayIFly]

I don't mean this to be political, I rather talk from the psychological point of view.

This is a micro vs macro viewpoint problem. It's a dichotomy even though the latter is built up from the former.

"Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come" - Carl Sandburg
This would solve the issue, but it obviously won't happen.

Normal people hate warfare.
If an individual has to go to war but doesn't want to, then he can expect disciplinary measures.
If everybody in both armies says that, then there is not enough staff to enforce the war.

But nobody does it because of fear of disciplinary measures. Or because everybody knows that nobody will stand with them if they speak their minds. Or because most are programmed by society that we have to do it for the greater good.

I thought about this for a while and I came up with a though experiment:
Let's assume that there is a topic that people understand and they like it, but it is going to be changed in a week. So people can naturally engange in a peaceful demonstration. But then they think "What will my neighbours/boss/friends think of me?" And the boss thinks "I have responsibilities, what will my employees/customers think of me?"

Now a couple of benevolent billionaires produce a device for everybody. This device has a screen where you can read certain messages. Then at one point this device rings and shows "We have to go to the peaceful demonstration about X". Then every 3 minutes a new message appears:

"Step One: Go to the door."
...
"Step Two: Go outside on the street."
...
"Step Three: Look around, see all the people? Join them, you are not alone."
...

So this would be a careful low-risk low-investment approach with a feedback loop that would prevent people from a disgraceful social fall and mockery. You are not alone on the street? Well, look at you, you aren't nuts after all!


But we don't have such a device. So after some time all this dissatisfaction builds up and it only takes one influential person to let it out.

Prime-time example: Trump
He never apologises like the rest, but is popular nevertheless. Everybody is tired of the whole PC thing.

Another example: Nobody in Europe wants to let millions of refugees in. But our governments don't listen and do it anyway. And then everybody wonders why the conservative and right-wing parties are on the rise.

 

[luniac]

Well I am already debating that society does have massive influence on us and that it doesn't have to be that way (we can boycott, we can exchange real information as long as we keep fighting censorship, dishonest marketing and so on. I am already doing so with my Fastlane). All you people seem to be telling me is: Hey you need to find your path. Just chill. Don't worry. Ignore society...You can't do nothing. Things have always been like this.

Thanks, really. But that's not debating.

I will argue that you should do nothing because you can't do anything about it.
How are you gonna make a difference, you can't make someone do something they don't really want to do.
It's always been this way but it's just so much more apparent now thanks to modern technology connecting the world together 24/7.

Most of the first world lives very mundane lives and are too comfortable to do anything risky. They have all the resources they need to change their lives just like we do but choose not to use them. I'm much more concerned about people in the third world, especially children, who don't even have a shot at a fair life.

Sure it doesn't help that the food we're sold and the water we drink are all doped up with fluoride, GMOs, sugar, etc which is designed to weaken our minds, but that's just how it is now, you're either strong enough or you're not. What if you haven't been breast fed, what if you were on drugs your first year of life, what if you've been exposed to lead as a child. There are so many cases where you can do regular work but you just don't have the mental ability to demand more of life, but i guess these people are not part the "game" of life, they're early casualties.

And of course there's always just lazy bums, morons, people who don't know wtf "philosophy" even is, just dumbass people. Wtf you gonna do about them, nothing, let it be, focus on your own life, it's short enough as it is and time fliesssss fast man it flies fast!!!

 

[luniac]

Thankfully there are many pills, in all colours and sizes, some are hard to swallow, others you don't take orally....

lol i didn't mean literal pills.

 

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[Buickestate]

lol i didn't mean literal pills.

Nor did I.

As we learn the ropes of the fast lane, we make our own pills.

 

[Travis.I]

I'm 18 years old and I before I knew about the Fastlane I was living a Sidewalker's life with a Slow Laner's mindset. It's the way I knew, it's the only way anybody had told me to go. Unfortunately, it's the way society tells all young people to go. I think society has tainted our (us youngins) definition of responsibility. I've noticed many other people like me, my friends, my peers in school, we define responsibility as having a career, paying bills, and having a mortgage. Society has taught us to believe that true responsibility was to wait until we were older and more "educated". When we're young, people doubt our abilities and tell us we're not "mature" enough to "understand" and eventually we let them convince us. And we wait for responsibility. We wait for life to come to us. Just like everyone else. We wait for our designated, predestined time to shine. It's time for society to stop suppressing all the different meanings of responsibility. Let us define our responsibility, and support it.

You do know we need slowlaners in society. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur.

Be happy you are one of younger people of our age group to notice this opportunity to go a different path.

Well, sure everyone can. But economically, that isn't good. I don't know who was doing this, but I remember hearing about a person that was "rich" who spent some time going onto online forums giving people wrong information to fail merely so he wouldn't have competition. Not confident in that story at all because I don't remember where I heard this source of information.

 

[Mineralogic]

Aren't philosophers just mentally masterbating brains floating in a clouded jar?

No, they are some of the real forces helping to guide and lead mankind for 1000's of years especially during the dark times.

Many of us are born knowing we are not just biological machines.

 

[hellolin]

I keep seeing the phrase "help others" or "bring value to someone else's life" aren't we just coating the cold hard truth? We aren't "helping others" by feeding them the luxurious food they want. We can create a product that stops all of the toppings from my deluxe burger from falling out, and people will buy it, but we're not helping them... we're not bringing value to their lives. We are simply taking advantage of their non Fast-Lane mindset. Which is completely OK, you do what you gotta do to get rich. However, we are not helping these people.

MJ said in his book that we can't focus on the symptoms, we need to focus on the root problem that is causing the symptoms. We are where we are today (or heading in the direction we are) because we already decided to focus on the problem, so we no longer have to suffer the symptoms. The problem is the person, the symptom is their want for the deluxe burger holder. The only way to make money, is to take advantage of people's symptoms. It's why a doctor immediately goes to the prescription sheet - he makes more money with the symptoms he's controlling, rather than if he fixed the problem. And why shouldn't he? If he's benefiting so much, and his patients are convinced he's actually helping, then power to him! Take advantage of them! Take advantage of their unwillingness to focus on the problem.

But do not kid yourself into thinking we are helping them.

That doesn't mean we can not make products that actually helps them. Every generation's wealth producers came to this dilemma before, and there are people in every generation that answers to this question, using the same fastlane formula. It's just that not many people in our times have dedicated their fastlane cause to something bigger than him-selves yet.

 

[Mineralogic]

I keep seeing the phrase "help others" or "bring value to someone else's life" aren't we just coating the cold hard truth? We aren't "helping others" by feeding them the luxurious food they want. We can create a product that stops all of the toppings from my deluxe burger from falling out, and people will buy it, but we're not helping them... we're not bringing value to their lives. We are simply taking advantage of their non Fast-Lane mindset. Which is completely OK, you do what you gotta do to get rich. However, we are not helping these people.

MJ said in his book that we can't focus on the symptoms, we need to focus on the root problem that is causing the symptoms. We are where we are today (or heading in the direction we are) because we already decided to focus on the problem, so we no longer have to suffer the symptoms. The problem is the person, the symptom is their want for the deluxe burger holder. The only way to make money, is to take advantage of people's symptoms. It's why a doctor immediately goes to the prescription sheet - he makes more money with the symptoms he's controlling, rather than if he fixed the problem. And why shouldn't he? If he's benefiting so much, and his patients are convinced he's actually helping, then power to him! Take advantage of them! Take advantage of their unwillingness to focus on the problem.

But do not kid yourself into thinking we are helping them.

exactly, most businesses and governments serve someone's symptoms of needs, not the real underlying needs

this is the one thing that has been holding back humanity when we do not see reality and truth. We have to find ways to pivot from the hamster wheel/game that has been played for hundreds of years. Planned Obselecence and serving artificial needs are a major problem along with the social engineering being done

 

[hellolin]

exactly, most businesses and governments serve someone's symptoms of needs, not the real underlying needs

this is the one thing that has been holding back humanity when we do not see reality and truth. We have to find ways to pivot from the hamster wheel/game that has been played for hundreds of years. Planned Obselecence and serving artificial needs are a major problem along with the social engineering being done

Well we now have the extreme version of the creating artificial needs part of every single central bank of the world printing money that doesn't exist to boost the failing economies.

 

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[Mineralogic]

Well we now have the extreme version of the creating artificial needs part of every single central bank of the world printing money that doesn't exist to boost the failing economies.

wizard of oz is real!

 

[Newpollz]

Wanna talk artificial? Not only are people after money, they are after followers and subscribers. And whatever these followers (new day sponsors) request, you must execute. This new form of slavery has already been introduced and will eventually replace the current form of slavery completely (which is salary).

Think about it. You hear more and more "Follow me", "Like me" or "Please subscribe" than Donate, Stay Tuned or See you next week in the 21st century. And that "see you next week" is now irrelevant. Everyone produces content daily. What do they produce? Whatever the followers want.

Eating well, living under a nice roof, having decent clothing, smelling nice will all become optional with the arrival of virtual reality in the second half of 2016. Who will give a shit? Just eat vitamins, drink water and plug into the oculus 18h / a day. How will you sustain yourself? By staying inside a virtual world whoring for likes and subscriptions that will bring you just enough in your adsense account to pay rent.

I don't know, either I have no idea what the F*ck I am talking about or I am a visionary.

 

[hellolin]

to me society is the same as it as always been a thousands years ago look at those ancient philosophers they talk about the exact same thing we are here talking about society.most of them rants about how it's messed up and the king isn't sharing his wealth and how corrupted they are.i have always seen persons saying how society changes and stuff like that but to me it's the same as it as ever been even as technology changes day by day we are going to still have a set of persons ruling over, setting the laws and manipulating the masses and at the end of the day there is nothing we can do about it otherwise than empowering ourselves and help those who want to be helped that's why this forum is really great.

the best a person can do is carve out a life for themselves, for me as a person i don't give a damn what another person want to do with his/her life because at the end of the day they are so many elements and experiences that adds up overtime to shape that persons reality and it's kind of hard for them to change.for me life is all about perception i don't feel like we need to think the same way and have the same motives because that's not how we were engineered by nature for as species.we are going to always have that lazy person,that tall person, that hard working person etc life have to be diverse it would be so boring if it isn't. i am not saying everyone should aim towards same thing because yet again you are going to always have that spoiled apple in the tree, that's nature.

who knows if what we are doing by having that nice car and house is really what life is for, those things are great and brings alot of joy to our lives, but hey who knows what is life is for any ways, who set these rules. over thousands of years that same question of what is life will puzzle mankind until extinction.

View attachment 11556

In fact I bought a book called " The society construction of reality", It's a book that was written in 1966 but it was way way ahead of its times and I think the book captures what you are saying here

 

[Daniel Hickey]

No.

The way you wrote this gives the control to someone out side of you. If you wait for society to let you do anything....you'll be stuck where you are your entire life.

You are, and have always been, and always will be...in control of where you are in life.

Congratulations, you've woken up...now take control of your life and make a decision of where you are going to go now.

You seem to have misinterpreted. I am not trying to give society any control at all. I am simply stating that BECAUSE of society's control, so many people miss the opportunity to start out young. And I'm already past the waiting point, I don't, nor will I ever wait for society to "approve". I just wish society wouldn't mask responsibility so more people like me would come out of the cracks and contribute to the world instead of contributing to just their own lives.

 

[hellolin]

I'm not too sure of that. Last I checked there are twice as many people per capita are going to college today when compared to the 1980's. That's why people (especially the younger generation) are trying to increase minimum wage instead of economic output/productivity. Most jobs that didn't require a degree in the past do now because there's too many people looking for high wage work so employers can raise requirements.

Exactly, then they don't want to spend time and effort into areas that are actually in high demand and good pay like computer/it or engineering because it's such a pain in the a$$ to learn in the first place, so it's much easier for people of my generation to look for handouts. Just look at how many young people come on this forum, and the first thing they say in their intro post is "I have a 4 year degree in a field that I can't find work with over $50k in debt"......

 

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[Newpollz]

You do have control

Everyone thinks they have control until they realize they were being fooled. You didn't bring yourself into this world. You don't control when or how you will die. Why would you believe that you always have control over your life?

 

[Newpollz]

Move your a$$ to some desolate part of the world where they don't have all the stuff that you hate so much. Problem solved.

Look, everyone knows that control is an illusion in the sense you are referring to. You could get killed tomorrow walking your doggy. Who gives a shit?!?

However, every problem you stated is affecting YOU! You are making societies "problems" yours by how you react to it.

You don't want to be told to worship transgenders and homosexuals? - Don't tune in to the people who tell you that!
Tired of idiotic myths about whatever... Don't read, listen or engage in that.
Don't give two shits about Kardasians, don't pay attention to that.

Pretty much everything you stated I wholeheartedly agree with, the difference is I don't let that shit bother me. YOU clearly do. And therein lies your choice.

So, pontificate away and keep claiming everything someones fault other than your own if that somehow makes you feel validated.

However, I (choose) not to let that garbage have control over my life!

Nice post, however don't mistake me for someone who is trying to change society for I too pretend that none of that shit bothers me.

 

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[Newpollz]

buddy, if you were truly working on your fastlane, ur brain won't have room to be bothered.

Why are you working on your "fastlane" in the first place if you are okay with society. If it doesn't bother you then why are you grinding away your time until you can come out of your cocoon and not have to actually be a cog in the wheel anymore, or a ghost in the machine (slave to dogma), or a social insurance number. To be able to say "F*ck society", I am independent and virtually self-sufficient. I thought that was one of the main reason beside wanting to create value no?

 

[Newpollz]

Yes I do fastlane partly because i don't wanna be a cog, true.
Have you ever seen a cog pop out of a machine? It takes a lot of shaking around, a massive amount of effort, while all the other cogs are still doing their thing around you.
You can't touch those other cogs during your escape, they can only watch you vibrate your way out and that's all you can really do to inspire, through your actions!

anyways lol... when i said "not bothered" i meant i just don't have the time or energy to care anymore cause im so goddamn busy! my mind is fully occupied with my life and my goals!

I understand. Also when I speak of society I'm really talking about general influence spread over the media, word of mouth (people repeat even the stupid shit that they hear unfortunately).

What movies do people go see? The ones that are at the box office.
What songs do people listen to? The ones that play on the radio over and over and over.
What form of art do people succomb to? Absurdity, memes, gifs, porn parodies

Eventually, no matter how deep we put our head in the sand. At one point we are subject to the influence of movies, music, art, culture, religion, institutions (nobel prize, harvard, United Nations top comittee, facebook). The rest of the influence comes from the corporations.


Society (goverment, parents, one global consciousness) creates a slow inception of the idea that you must X... and then Y but God forbid don't do Z, ever
Movies, music, art, culture, religion, institutions ---> Nourish the idea

When you come to make a decision. You believe that you have enough information to make a valid choice and not biased one. But all that "information" is not information anymore, it's poison that tastes like gummy bears.

For example:

Society: Eat meat regularly, meat contains protein it's good for you
Society: Proteins are good for you, it's proven by science
Society: Meat can give you cancer
Society: Take heavy radiation to kill cancer
Society: No, Samir Chachoua says that cancer and aids can be killed with alternative treatment to radiation
And then media, corporations, goverment spread the propaganda to the general public (society): This is madness, cancer and aids can only be cured through FDA medicine/treatment (i.e shit that WE declare legal)
Society: Ok but when is game of thrones back on. The Steelers got robbed!! Wtf Myley Cyrus!! That's outrageous.. society is brainwashing us.. Hey halooween, hurrray!!