Shark Tank [American Version of Dragon's Den]

[Runum]

IMHO he should have taken the money because he is the inventor. Maybe negotiate a royalty deal with it though. I don't think the guy knows how to market and sell the product.

Good show. I'm seeing, though, if the sharks begin bidding, they smell blood. If they start attacking verbally, the deal is not going their way. They are not there to make someone's dreams come true, it's not an altruistic show, it's business.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Whatcha think of the lady with the sticky note arm? I didn't think it was a bad idea.

 

[Runum]

I thought it was a good idea. I think a lot of office people would buy them. Another example of not being able to market? Couldn't she go to a local mom and pop office supply and/or computer repair and get them to sell them? Then go to the big box stores once the idea is refined. She had no patent. How much does a patent cost?

Edit: This site would set the cost of a simple item at $5000. http://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/patent-cost/

 

[maximus20895]

did it run today? I couldn't find it

 

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[Knowledge Kick]

Another great episode.

My 2 cents:

Clothing Co. Guy- I think Daymond John was right. Even though the clothes might look good, there's 10,000 other clothing companies out there just like this.

Seatbelt Guy- When I got the second offer of 1 million dollars I think I would've counteroffered for 500k but added some type of royalty agreement. That way you still get your initial pay day but also have a chance to get rich over time for the rest of your life. I don't know if any of the sharks would've did that though. All in all, I think he made a mistake. I don't think he has what it takes to take his product and turn it into what the sharks could have.

Sticky Note Lady- It's not a TERRIBLE idea but she had absolutely NOTHING to offer. No sales, no patent, no known market.

Music Education Guy- I really liked this guy and the deal he got. He did some research before he went in there and fought HARD to retain control of the company. Ultimately he didn't retain control but he did get a good royalty deal and 5 extremely valuable partners who could promote this thing as much as they want to. The best thing about this idea was that he really loved what he was doing and has a sincere goal in mind...on top of getting rich of course. haha



One thing I noticed so far on this show is that the sharks get really annoyed when the entrepreneurs do a "top-down" market analysis of their business. The best example was the sticky note lady. "There were 57 Million laptops sold just in the US this year." So what? Robert even mentioned all the people who come to him talking about 1% of 1% and so on and so on. I believe most entrepreneurs need to do "bottom-up" analysis when getting a realistic evaluation of their business.

 

[PaulRobert]

Another great episode.

My 2 cents:

Clothing Co. Guy- I think Daymond John was right. Even though the clothes might look good, there's 10,000 other clothing companies out there just like this.



Sticky Note Lady- It's not a TERRIBLE idea but she had absolutely NOTHING to offer. No sales, no patent, no known market.


One thing I noticed so far on this show is that the sharks get really annoyed when the entrepreneurs do a "top-down" market analysis of their business. The best example was the sticky note lady. "There were 57 Million laptops sold just in the US this year." So what? Robert even mentioned all the people who come to him talking about 1% of 1% and so on and so on. I believe most entrepreneurs need to do "bottom-up" analysis when getting a realistic evaluation of their business.

What surprised me about the clothing guy was when the shark wanted to pay him for a shirt and hat and the guy gave it to him for free. I think that was a mistake. He should of charged him. That could be the reason why his sales are so low, he gave them away for free. I would of charged it, spun it around and said "Well I have my first out-of-state order completed."

The sticky holder seems like a pretty good product that could be sold in Staples, QVC, ect.. but what turned off the sharks almost immediately was her asking price of 500K for only 10% equity. That is just too outrageous plus she had no patent, and no solid market yet. She already has a solid prototype, so she can probably make something work out of it.

+1 on the "bottom-up" analysis. Entrepreneurs need to know every aspect of their market and not just a guess that ooo maybe 1% of the market will buy my product.

 

[rocksolid]

Seatbelt guy should have countered with 750K and 8% royalty. They even asked him what his price was. He is too focused on making sure the product hits the market. I'm not sure what he thought the sharks were going to do with it, but get it to market. If he waits for the car company's they will just wait for his patent to run out.

Music guy. I think he has an interesting idea but I think it will be a tough sell to schools. My reason is because schools have a required curriculum and the students must read the books. His music will give them the facts but will that be enough to satisfy the schools?? It kind of reminds me of cliffnotes and short version of a book that gave you all the basics of the book in about 20 pages. I think his market my be better if he went after students and not schools JMO.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Yea I didn't like the music guy's opportunity simply because most schools are undergoing budget cuts and stuff like this is the FIRST thing to be cut, or not considered. He should have taken the offer.

The SEATBELT guy I think did a smart move. He needs to go after the car manufacturer market and dump the idea of getting the product on shelves. People will not pay a mechanic for install -- that is $$, time off, inconvenience ... the money train for that invention is thru manufacturers and the sharks saw it.

 

[LaughedAt]

Just watched the first episode, it was enough for me to decide not to watch any other episode of this series, I'm sorry but for anyone who watched the UK version probably felt how HORRIBLE the US version is, I didn't like the Investors, didn't like the format and the flashy atmosphere.
Make yourself a favor and watch the UK version, much less flashy, more professional entrepreneurs (they sound much more professional even though their combined wealth is less than those of the US entrepreneurs), the business usually gets torn apart and much detail gets exposed leading to a better understanding of the business, while in the US version the entrepreneur pitches the idea and starts getting offers without the viewers knowing much about the business itself which IMO leads to a not-so-good business show after all, this is why it's getting horrible ratings while the UK version is rated among the country's most watched TV shows!
Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[TaxGuy]

Yea I didn't like the music guy's opportunity simply because most schools are undergoing budget cuts and stuff like this is the FIRST thing to be cut, or not considered. He should have taken the offer.

He did

By the way I was watching that almost pulling my hair out, especially since I am working on building a brand and licensing it out at the moment to see him scoff at $250k and 5% royalty for an unproven product is like torture!

What they offered him was a check for $250k, the equivalent of winning the little lotto, plus a 5% royalty without any of the day to day hassles of starting and running a business so it was like drinking the milk without buying the cow.

From my research a 3-5% rate is very good, anything higher is stupendous. In fact it even states in from Patent to Profit that if a 3% deal involves the inventor paying all the admin, legal and research costs it's better to just accept a lower percent and have all the fees covered, especially if you're bootstrapping. Remember 5%+ of 0 is still 0 :coco:

In fact, from the entrepreneur side Shark Tank and Dragon's Den is a lot of learning how NOT to do it- i.e. investing too much upfront(without sales to back you), insane company valuations(see top-down strategy mentioned in previous posts) and just a bad attitude(lol, like Kevin O says "Don't insult money!")

From the Shark's side it's a no-brainer that they are great role models, I mean being able to make on the fly decisions like they do and cutting the emotions out of the equation such as the case with the MMA clothing company and despite Daymond being in that guy's shoes knowing that this product is not worth his money at this time until the brand can separate itself from the 1000's of others on the market OR of course Kevin O, by far the most successful member of the panel relating everything back to money so well that every analogy actually has the word "money" in it :smxB:

The SEATBELT guy I think did a smart move. He needs to go after the car manufacturer market and dump the idea of getting the product on shelves. People will not pay a mechanic for install -- that is $$, time off, inconvenience ... the money train for that invention is thru manufacturers and the sharks saw it.

I agree

Pride goeth before a fall.

Yes he wants to be the face of the product, however, some stuff is best left to the experts and seeing how much the Sharks are about ROI they're not like the garbage you hear about on TV where someone wants to buy a product and shelve it just to keep it off the market. They're leveraging their money on the same goal as him- to put this product in every new car in America!

 

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[neverfastenough]

Just watched the first episode, it was enough for me to decide not to watch any other episode of this series, I'm sorry but for anyone who watched the UK version probably felt how HORRIBLE the US version is, I didn't like the Investors, didn't like the format and the flashy atmosphere.
Make yourself a favor and watch the UK version, much less flashy, more professional entrepreneurs (they sound much more professional even though their combined wealth is less than those of the US entrepreneurs), the business usually gets torn apart and much detail gets exposed leading to a better understanding of the business, while in the US version the entrepreneur pitches the idea and starts getting offers without the viewers knowing much about the business itself which IMO leads to a not-so-good business show after all, this is why it's getting horrible ratings while the UK version is rated among the country's most watched TV shows!
Just my 2 cents worth...

Personally, I like Dragon's Den MUCH MORE than Shark Tank (though I'll continue to watch ST). I like DD because the dragons converse more with the entrepreneur than with themselves. The collusion between the sharks gets old very quickly. ST also seems to be edited way more for sound bites.

 

[SweetJones]

Cool show. But I enjoy Dragons Den MUCH MUCH more simply because it's more in depth and the Dragons seem to have a genuine approach in helping the entrepreneurs succeed. Obviously I'm sure this is just part of the shows approach, but the Sharks just seem to be out to milk you for all worth given the slightest loophole in your game and go make a killing.:fryingpan:

Cant blame em, some ideas were outright goldmines like the seatbelt!! Lawd have mercy, someone toss this guy a link to thefastlane!!! He will clearly not get that product churning with his mindset!! :nonod:

Updated episodes can be found on hulu.

 

[SweetJones]

The Bluetooth surgery idea was absolutely crazy.

Ahhh... I had someone ACTUALLY debate and tell me that this type of technology is the future!

Where did they find this guy? :coco:

 

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[WildFlower]

Just watched this and I didn't like it.
I know our version isn't the original, but it's the most successful version.
Why does America always turn it into a sob story?

p.s. I did like the fact that people were asking for millions of $ though.

I like the Canadian version the best.. I like the UK one too... but, I loved the higher dollars in the US version. Sometimes I think.. what? why so, low. That would concern me that their marketing plan isn't in place or something was missing.

What did everyone think about the guys with the "Hunks Hauling Junk?" ... I thought the sharks tried to take advantage of them and they even said so at the end ... when there was blood in the water, the sharks went after it.

I thought it was a mistake to pass.. because, the opportunity wasn't just about money.. but, to be "mentored" by someone who knows a lot and could bring it to another level quicker. Learn from others!

Great episode again this week, the seatbelt product really got me to think. Did he make a good choice? One of the sharks offered him 500K for his patent while the other one offered him 1 million for the patent. Here is my opinion. I think he made a good choice of not accepting either one. If he would take the deal he sold his rights of ownership and thats it. A one time deal, no royalties, nothing passive, just a single large paycheck. The sharks see the mass potential of this product and want to profit the most. How would you feel if I paid you $10,000 for total ownership of your product and I took it and started making $50,000 a month. I know you would :smx4: because your not the one making $50,000 monthly.

Just my 2 cents.

I was hoping that man would realize that the value was the patent and to get it in dealerships and car manufacturers. ..I think the deal offered would have been better but, I'm sure they were thinking.. this man is too stubborn what will he apply that in the company when we are trying to mentor him.... I was hoping he would at least counter with a royalty.

Whatcha think of the lady with the sticky note arm? I didn't think it was a bad idea.

At first I didn't get it.. but, then after she folded it.. I thought okay I get it now. ... I have post-its on my desk.. I don't put them on my screen but, I could see the use for it.

Music guy. I think he has an interesting idea but I think it will be a tough sell to schools. My reason is because schools have a required curriculum and the students must read the books. His music will give them the facts but will that be enough to satisfy the schools?? It kind of reminds me of cliffnotes and short version of a book that gave you all the basics of the book in about 20 pages. I think his market my be better if he went after students and not schools JMO.

I agree. I was thinking.. but, your target is schools. ALTHOUGH .. what was it.. $450 a set.. cds are cheap and that book doesn't cost that much either compared to the price. The profit is good. They could tweak it and take it to infomercials to the home market. Look at Baby Einstein!


*********************************************
That lady with the jars of jelly... I can't believe she only makes 2% profit! I don't get it.... also that pie guy... he is doing something very wrong to only make 20%! Bakeries have the highest profit percentage out of almost all restaurants... because it's more like a manufacturer rather than a reseller. Restaurants don't make everything from raw ingredients like bakeries do. In a perfect scenario a bakery can make 90% profit!! So... he is doing lots of things wrong. I think he is probably spending too much on his payroll. Going back to the lady with the 2%... with the figures I just talked about and she is a manufacturer of raw ingredients.. what the heck is wrong? She said yes.. which was a good idea, she will get mentored and the wrinkles will be ironed out... she was in 650 stores!

 

[rocksolid]

I like the show, but I am starting to see a patern. If the idea is what the sharks think is a good one then they offer money and want 51%. On one hand I feel bad for the people looking for money becuase they come here looking for help and end up having a wealthy person take their idea, hopes and dreams from them. On the other hand the people seeking money are not doing well ( in most cases ) and should be thankful for the opportunity to either make some money or get out all together, it just seems like a shame. I'm kind of torn.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

But there is value in mentorship. To have one of these guys/gals as a partner is immensely valuable. That carries a lot of weight ... at least if I was broke and an inventor that is how I'd look at it.

 

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[imoutthere]

But there is value in mentorship. To have one of these guys/gals as a partner is immensely valuable. That carries a lot of weight ... at least if I was broke and an inventor that is how I'd look at it.

I agree the all mighty MJ .

Its like going to business school and getting paid for it. Except instead of learning from the teachers/professors, your learning from the guy who would have gave the speech at graduation.

For giving up control of your idea , you will see how its really done behind the scenes. Not by reading it, but by actually witnessing it first hand.

Once you can gain that kind of business knowledge, you will never go broke again.

 

[WildFlower]

BTW - I LOVED the elephant medicine dispenser idea!!! OMG! I would buy that in a heartbeat! At least it makes it fun! And knowing my son.. it would have worked well with him. It would take 20 minutes sometimes... he would look at the color and say "OHHHH that's the kind I hate"... forget the flavors.. they didn't work with him.. BUT an elephant … that counts down…. That would have worked at least 80% of the time!

 

[maximus20895]

But there is value in mentorship. To have one of these guys/gals as a partner is immensely valuable. That carries a lot of weight ... at least if I was broke and an inventor that is how I'd look at it.

That what makes me so angry. I wouldn't care how much they give me. In this game, it's not about the money. It's about their knowledge. Some of these people deny deals because they didn't give enough money. Who cares! Look at your freaking business partner muli-millionaire/billionaire.

 

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[PaulRobert]

That what makes me so angry. I wouldn't care how much they give me. In this game, it's not about the money. It's about their knowledge. Some of these people deny deals because they didn't give enough money. Who cares! Look at your freaking business partner muli-millionaire/billionaire.

Like the lady with the kitchen brush. She went with the shark that just wanted to get the product onto TV. I can't believe she turned down the other shark's offer, which could of made her into a brand and make her 10X wealthier. :coco:

 

[maximus20895]

i must miss that one. What kitchen brush?

 

[PaulRobert]

i must miss that one. What kitchen brush?

I believe it was last week, it was a kitchen utensil that could brush poultry, inject liquid and measure the temperature all at once. I'm not too sure about the details of the brush itself though. The lady had no patent on it and not even a complete prototype, just a fancy visual presentation.

 

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[neverfastenough]

I like the show, but I am starting to see a patern. If the idea is what the sharks think is a good one then they offer money and want 51%. On one hand I feel bad for the people looking for money becuase they come here looking for help and end up having a wealthy person take their idea, hopes and dreams from them. On the other hand the people seeking money are not doing well ( in most cases ) and should be thankful for the opportunity to either make some money or get out all together, it just seems like a shame. I'm kind of torn.

Would you rather own 50% of something or 100% of nothing?

That being said, the sharks certainly take advantage of the situation, which is why I like Dragon's Den more, as the conversation is between the entrepreneur and the dragon unlike the sharks who freely converse with one another.

 

[TaxGuy]

Who cares! Look at your freaking business partner muli-millionaire/billionaire.

Yea I'm surprised no one mentioned the guy and his son who dissed the Kevins(O and Harrington), I mean shouldn't it be a requirement before you go on the show to know a little bit about the people you are requesting money from? Especially someone like Kevin O who is worth billions, with a B!

This is the problem I have with reality TV they just love to present trainwrecks like this that just make you want to throw stuff at the TV

Also with the woman with the Turbo Baster, I wonder if her success was due to the fact that she only asked for $35k instead of some of these no-sales and no-plan "if I only had 1% of 1% of a trillion dollar market" who go up and ask for millions or value a worthless business at $10m+

 

[WildFlower]

This is the problem I have with reality TV they just love to present trainwrecks like this that just make you want to throw stuff at the TV

Also with the woman with the Turbo Baster, I wonder if her success was due to the fact that she only asked for $35k instead of some of these no-sales and no-plan "if I only had 1% of 1% of a trillion dollar market" who go up and ask for millions or value a worthless business at $10m+

You can thank Mark Brunette for that. He cares about viewership only, if you look at the first Survivor and the last.. major difference. I stopped watching when they purposely picked people who would irritate each other opposed to their psychological skills. Everyshow he does is about money.. funny.

Think about this… besides the days and days that lady had in thinking of the Turbo Baster .. she went it in with a theory… an idea… no testing to see if it works and would really fill a need and she made bank with basically no out of pocket expenses! She obviously did not have the skills at all to run a business (not that she isn’t capable, just no knowledge on the topic) and she now has HER IDEA into the TV Infomercial King’s hands to run with it! AND she gets a percentage! She basically went in with a wooden carving and walked out bank… either way it goes.. sits on a shelf or sells millions. That piece of wood was sold for 35k.

You can watch the full episodes on ABC’s site.

 

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[bflbob]

I can't wait for tonight's episode!

I love the show, although I agree with MJ...I'd be tempted to go in with an offer that says, "I'm looking for $XX and I'm willing to give up 51% of the company for some great mentoring and knowledge. If one or more of you are willing to split that cost, I'm ready to sign."

Everyone always says that the first time is the toughest. Better to have one or more of these guys on your side the first time through.

 

[KnightVision]

What do you guys think of this past Sunday's (09/06) episode??

Seems like there were no stand-out business plans. The last one, with the 2 Brazilian brothers, seemed a little more legit and they both seem to have good heads on their shoulders. HOWEVER, I don't think they were anywhere close to a deal with ETNA. They seem like smart guys, and I'm sure they know the value of such a partnership. I think when they realized they are on their last legs with the sharks, they threw out something that was merely PROPOSED to ETNA. On the other hand, I think the 2 sharks will help to inevitably make that happen, through their expertise and connections.

 

[Runum]

Dang, I forgot it was on. Is it on Youtube?

OK, I found it and just watched it. I am getting more entertainment and information in watching the sharks banter and gig each other than I am from the inventors. I love seeing the sharks interacting.

 

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[WildFlower]

Dragon's Den Canada

Here are a couple good deals and interaction with the Dragons.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOFMGb0I7Q&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - EcoTraction on Dragons' Den[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYcS6v589eI&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - *atomic tea featured on cbc's 'dragon's den'[/ame]

 

[SharkTankTVShow]

Thanks for posting Shark Tank Episodes... I hope you continue to post videos because Shark Tank will be back on the 8th of January 2010.


http://abc.go.com/shows/shark-tank/