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Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

Walter Hay

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Howdy @Walter Hay,

Congrats on publishing your 2018 edition of Proven China Sourcing. I'm sure it's excellent.

You've probably already noticed this, but as far as I can tell Alibaba has removed the "Assessed Supplier" designation and replaced it with "Onsite Check." What do you make of this development?

Another question: what's your opinion of freightos.com? They seem to make sea and air freight arrangements a lot more transparent.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Yes, I knew that major changes had been made since I published my 2018 revision. This is a common problem in dealing with Alibaba. They have made numerous changes over recent years, sometimes as many as three significant changes in one year.

In fact the Assessed Supplier category no longer exists, although Alibaba's help section still contains copious references to the non-existent category. In some of their articles in the help section they encourage people to filter for Assessed Suppliers, but no such filter is any longer available.

The onsite check is still, as it has always been, a token gesture that is worthless in assessing suppliers. It only proves that they exist.

Their whole verification and assessment process that was already near useless has now become a shambles.

There is conflicting information on the site, and their explanation regarding the newest badge: "Gold Plus Supplier" is that in addition to the "Onsite checks and Trade protection" offered by ordinary Gold Suppliers, the Gold Plus Suppliers can boast of:
  1. Advanced trade protection with higher volume
  2. Assessed videos
  3. Panoramic pictures
  4. Factory inspection reports
  5. Verified production lines
To give you an idea of how big a shambles this has become, although I am very familiar with Alibaba, having been a registered vendor for some years, and I know how to search the innermost parts of the site, I have been unable to find out what "Advanced trade protection with higher volume" means.

The videos would never win any film festival awards, mostly showing images of buildings, signs, products being offered, people sitting at desks etc.

The panoramic pictures show bigger pictures of the buildings and sometimes even inside one of them.

I have read some of the new "Factory inspection reports" that include details of the
"Verified production lines", and they are a far cry from the old Assessed Supplier reports. They now provide very limited information. One that I read gave information that contradicted what appeared under a different heading elsewhere.

I am sorry to see SGS and TUV providing such reports.

The upshot of it all is that in my opinion, sourcing on Alibaba is now a very hit an miss affair.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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In relation to the question:
"What's your opinion of freightos.com? They seem to make sea and air freight arrangements a lot more transparent."

As far as I am concerned the jury's still out.

My eyebrows rose when I looked at reviews on one site, and out of the 10 reviews, 3 started off with the identical sentence, - actually in the form of a question,

That made me suspect that the reviews weren't genuine.

You can try the service for free, but after that it will cost you 3% of the value of your secured order.

I would prefer to use a freight forwarder near me. If in doubt you can always use the free trial on Freightos or Flexport to see if your local forwarder provides value without a fee for quoting.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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Is Alibaba exaggerating? Surely not......

For their homepage for the month of September, Alibaba have the headline: "Over 50,000,000 quality products. Over 50,000 selected suppliers."

Does that mean that on average each supplier has 1,000 products? :smuggy:

Walter
 

Ethan_Scott

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You are thinking this through well. In answer to your questions:

1. Yes that is right, but you need to get your supplier to only ship every 3 days, otherwise if two or three shipments arrive close together they will be treated as a single shipment and you will pay duty on the total value of the two or three.

You must calculate whether or not the saving on duty is more than the extra cost of shipping in smaller value shipments. You also need to take into account the inconvenience.

2. Correct again. If you can reduce the freight cost that would help, but you need a cooperative supplier to help. Shipment via ePacket might save some money but you need to ask your supplier to find the most economical door to door shipment for you. In the case of ePacket you will possibly have to collect from your post office. Possibly a genuine quote from the freight transportation company might help.

I suggest you check with the Post Office in your country to see if they automatically clear and deliver. In many countries that is routine, but if they don't you might have to go to a Postal Customs depot to collect and this could involve the red tape of completing an informal clearance.

Refresh your memory about invoices by looking at Chapter 17 Order Procedure and Checklist. The checklist is not numbered, but the important part when shipping multiple small shipments is the 9th item on the list. That item helps with clearance whether automatic or by you doing an informal clearance.

Walter

Walter, I agree with wh ta you just said. For any sort of supply chain business, we need to get our fundamentals right and straight. This has not only been going wrong since quite a lot of time, it has also been unchecked. We need to get along the data in the import and export industry, check with freight transportation carriers and analyse the market. It is only then a solution can be extracted.

If you come across any resource or reliable centre, please let me know. I will be more than open to discuss this with all of you.
 
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Walter Hay

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Risky Business.

Earlier this year The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative issued its list of “Notorious Markets” and Alibaba’s various B2B and B2C sites feature yet again, with a high volume of infringing products reportedly continuing to be offered for sale and sold on Taobao.com.

This is despite the fact that Alibaba say they closed down 230,000 shops on TaoBao.com in the year ended August 2017 for selling fakes and counterfeits.

Other Alibaba operated sites get a mention too, including T Mall, TMall Global, Xian Yu, (located at 2.taobao.com) and of course, Aliexpress.

It’s not only Alibaba group sites that are selling fakes and counterfeits. INDIAMART.COM gets a mention and is singled out for its big trade in counterfeit and illegal pharmaceuticals.

DHGATE.COM, carries more than 30 million product listings, which for many years have included huge numbers of counterfeit and copyright infringing consumer products, appears to make little effort to get rid of their IP thieving sellers. The site is also reportedly a leading online marketplace for the sale and distribution of counterfeit and pirated academic textbooks

These are far from being the only B2B sites that you should be wary of. My view is that if a site allows IP theft on their platform, how reliable is the site itself?

On a personal note, I have found counterfeit copies of my labeling book being offered for sale. Even though it is the old version which is now very much out of date, I have issued a Cease and Desist order, but no doubt it will turn up somewhere else.

Walter
 

Walter Hay

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Another guru not what he appears to be.

I have again been asked by a forum member to comment on a product sourcing course that provides training complete with a China sourcing trip for buyers.

The program costs $6,000 and it includes "3 days access to the Yiwu Markets." (The markets don't charge an entry fee to anyone!)

I have reviewed Shawn Hart's scheme previously and would not consider using his services to help with product sourcing.

He says that he takes people to Yiwu markets to avoid middlemen, but in fact almost all of the stallholders at Yiwu are middlemen. You would not find many actual manufacturers there.

His marketing business in the USA has a shocking reputation, partly I expect, as a result of him buying poor quality products at Yiwu. See this report Ripoff Report | shawn hart marketing complaints, reviews, scams, lawsuits and frauds reported, 34,382 results dealing with the thousands of complaints lodged with Ripoffreport about his business.

I have posted previously about Yiwu, and repeat that I consider it to be a very poor place to go for sourcing unless you want to run a $1 shop.

Walter
 

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Hello Walter,

I hope you are doing well.

I've just discovered the difference between DDU and DDP quotation and it's implications on the importing process.

I want to import from China to The Netherlands and in The Netherlands business owners can get the 21% VAT paid at the customs refunded by the government. At first I got quoted for DDP for sea and railway freight. But then I thought it must be way cheaper to get quoted for DDU, since the shipping company does not have to pay customs duty and VAT and I can get those refunded by the government.

Unfortunately, until now freight forwarders and manufacturers have not been able to quote me a cheaper DDU option for door-to-door delivery by sea or railway than DDP. One of them gave me the explanation that it since my shipment is not a full container and so it has to share the container with other shipments, they can not quote me DDU or if they did, it would be more expensive than the DDP quotation.

Is it true that DDU is more expensive than DDP or impossible for door-to-door sea and railway freight, knowing that I do not ship a full container? Or should I search further and find a freight forwarder that can quote me a cheaper DDU door-to-door sea or railway option?

Some freight forwarders have been able to quote me DDU for sea freight, but it was only to the port in The Netherlands, not door-to-door. But it was waaay less expensive than DDP. Maybe it is worthwhile to see whether a third party can pick up the shipments at the port and send it to the address I want and still be reasonably cheaper than getting a DDP quote, knowing I can get the 21% VAT refunded? Who should I ask for this, regular freight forwarders maybe?

I hope I have been clear and concise.

Thank you very much!

 
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Hello Walter,

I hope you are doing well.

I've just discovered the difference between DDU and DDP quotation and it's implications on the importing process.

I want to import from China to The Netherlands and in The Netherlands business owners can get the 21% VAT paid at the customs refunded by the government. At first I got quoted for DDP for sea and railway freight. But then I thought it must be way cheaper to get quoted for DDU, since the shipping company does not have to pay customs duty and VAT and I can get those refunded by the government.

Unfortunately, until now freight forwarders and manufacturers have not been able to quote me a cheaper DDU option for door-to-door delivery by sea or railway than DDP. One of them gave me the explanation that it since my shipment is not a full container and so it has to share the container with other shipments, they can not quote me DDU or if they did, it would be more expensive than the DDP quotation.

Is it true that DDU is more expensive than DDP or impossible for door-to-door sea and railway freight, knowing that I do not ship a full container? Or should I search further and find a freight forwarder that can quote me a cheaper DDU door-to-door sea or railway option?

Some freight forwarders have been able to quote me DDU for sea freight, but it was only to the port in The Netherlands, not door-to-door. But it was waaay less expensive than DDP. Maybe it is worthwhile to see whether a third party can pick up the shipments at the port and send it to the address I want and still be reasonably cheaper than getting a DDP quote, knowing I can get the 21% VAT refunded? Who should I ask for this, regular freight forwarders maybe?

I hope I have been clear and concise.

Thank you very much!

The Term DDU has been replaced by the new term DAP (Delivered at Place). The place named in your case is your address. I doubt that this is the problem, because DDU is still widely used and understood in the freight industry.

The most likely explanation for the problem is that the goods can't be released from Customs until all Duty and VAT chargeable has been paid. If that is the case, you would need to arrange payment through a Customs broker, and claim the refund of the VAT later.

I think this could end up costing you more than accepting the DDP quote. The big advantage of a DDP quote is that it simplifies the process for you. All clearance work is the responsibility of the shipper.

The serious complication is that the party that pays the VAT is the one that must claim the refund. I suggest that you need to make a written arrangement with your local freight forwarder to have you pay the VAT at the time of clearance, while they pay the duty. This would be covered by the term: DDP VAT Unpaid (+ Place)

I suggest that you contact some forwarders in the Netherlands and ask their advice.

icontainers might be able to help. Email: info@icontainers.com or phone their Netherlands office: +31 (0)85.888.8935

Mainfreight - Wereldwijde Transport en Logistiek is another forwarder worth contacting. Phone +31 (0)314 678 430

They should be able to sort it out for you.

Walter
 

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The Term DDU has been replaced by the new term DAP (Delivered at Place). The place named in your case is your address. I doubt that this is the problem, because DDU is still widely used and understood in the freight industry.

The most likely explanation for the problem is that the goods can't be released from Customs until all Duty and VAT chargeable has been paid. If that is the case, you would need to arrange payment through a Customs broker, and claim the refund of the VAT later.

I think this could end up costing you more than accepting the DDP quote. The big advantage of a DDP quote is that it simplifies the process for you. All clearance work is the responsibility of the shipper.

The serious complication is that the party that pays the VAT is the one that must claim the refund. I suggest that you need to make a written arrangement with your local freight forwarder to have you pay the VAT at the time of clearance, while they pay the duty. This would be covered by the term: DDP VAT Unpaid (+ Place)

I suggest that you contact some forwarders in the Netherlands and ask their advice.

icontainers might be able to help. Email: info@icontainers.com or phone their Netherlands office: +31 (0)85.888.8935

Mainfreight - Wereldwijde Transport en Logistiek is another forwarder worth contacting. Phone +31 (0)314 678 430

They should be able to sort it out for you.

Walter

Thanks once again Walter! You set me up to take the right actions.

I have contacted freight forwarders and I have been able to get a DDU/DAP quotation for both railway and sea shipping options.

I found out that there are many differences between freight forwarders in how they work and what they can do for you. Even prices differ a lot.

One freight forwarder could only quote me DAP for sea if the freight was at least 2 cbm. In other words, I have to pay for 2 cbm even if the shipment is less than that.

The other freight forwarder had a minimum of 1.3 cbm.

One of them can not quote me DAP for sea and air at all.

Moral of the story: shop around for freight forwarders and see which one can fulfill your wishes and give the best offers.
 

Walter Hay

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Thanks once again Walter! You set me up to take the right actions.

I have contacted freight forwarders and I have been able to get a DDU/DAP quotation for both railway and sea shipping options.

I found out that there are many differences between freight forwarders in how they work and what they can do for you. Even prices differ a lot.

One freight forwarder could only quote me DAP for sea if the freight was at least 2 cbm. In other words, I have to pay for 2 cbm even if the shipment is less than that.

The other freight forwarder had a minimum of 1.3 cbm.

One of them can not quote me DAP for sea and air at all.

Moral of the story: shop around for freight forwarders and see which one can fulfill your wishes and give the best offers.
Thanks for letting me know the outcome.

I have bolded your moral of the story in the hope that other readers will take note.

Forwarders are like any service business. They all have their own preferred way of operating, and they all have different attitudes to service.

Sometimes those attitudes are reflected in their prices, and sometimes simply in their willingness or unwillingness to be helpful.

Walter
 
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Hey Walter, I have a few questions if you don't mind. Really long post so I apologize.

My goal is to build a brand on Amazon and expand off their platform in time. I want to get started and learn by doing the product process steps - sourcing, differentiating, selling PL products on Amazon. The first few PL items, I realize it will be more of a learning experience than anything else. Next, I plan to take lessons learned and apply it to building a true brand.

1. For someone just getting their feet wet in this area, what is your take on these options for sourcing:
a) Using a service like Import Dojo
b) Hiring a sourcing agent (upwork, fiverr, other website)
c) Doing it all yourself via alibaba, dhgate, etc

I started with C and soon realized that I was out of my league when it came to products requiring a modicum of knowledge regarding US laws and certification requirements.. So a week or two ago I went with B, hiring a well-reviewed agent on upwork (a-z service, no bad reviews, etc). So far I'm seeing the $30/hr wage add up but not much else. He says he's still waiting on offers/quotes from his contacts due to a trade show in the area, which is fine - I'll give it another week. Problem is, I'm still having to look into cert. reqs and tell the agent exactly is needed... let's be honest, I have no idea and I end up googling it to *try* to figure it out.

This experience is making me wonder if I wouldn't be better off paying a service like Import Dojo a flat rate, even if only using them for the 'sourcing' part since they claim to cover this aspect of product sourcing among others.

2. While researching various products on Amazon, I got an idea. I looked everywhere and did not see anyone selling or manufacturing this specific item, but many well-selling products that danced around the concept without doing it outright. And even then, none have my 'bonus feature' which adds value to the product's concept in addition to the product's category.

The modification is fairly simple, I don't think manufacturing costs would increase much if any over competitor products. Even now with this rough concept in mind I am already seeing possible ways to expand on it with bundled sets, other complementary items to build out brand product line, etc.

Problem is, I have no clue where to go from here. Do I contact manufacturers on alibaba, share my idea, and see if they can make it? Hire someone to do product design and file a provisional patent? Something else? Totally lost on this one.
 

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@K465 I have copied and pasted most of your post with my reply in blue.

1. For someone just getting their feet wet in this area, what is your take on these options for sourcing:
a) Using a service like Import Dojo I’m sorry to say that ImportDojo are just another high priced Amazon teaching program and part of the upsell is to get you to pay them to do what they claim to be teaching you how to do for yourself. I have read a lot of their stuff and yawned. I must add that they are among the most professional of the Amazon experts selling courses (Jim Cockrum excepted!)

b) Hiring a sourcing agent (upwork, fiverr, other website) I have two reasons for avoiding sourcing agents:

1. I see it as an unnecessary expense, because with the guidance from my book, together with the support I give, primarily through Jim Cockrum’s PAC paid support team that I have trained.

2. It is practically impossible to know if the sourcing agent is working entirely with your best interests at heart (unlikely), or is he/she being paid by the supplier/s, or are the suppliers owned by the sourcing agent, or relatives or friends.

Secret commissions are illegal in Western jurisdictions but they are commonplace in China.

c) Doing it all yourself via alibaba, dhgate, etc

I started with C and soon realized that I was out of my league when it came to products requiring a modicum of knowledge regarding US laws and certification requirements. In my book Chapter 3 Rules and Regulations I suggest consulting a Customs Broker for such issues. So a week or two ago I went with B, hiring a well-reviewed agent on upwork (a-z service, no bad reviews, etc). I place very little trust in reviews. Testimonials published online (such as on my Proven Global Sourcing - Proven Global Sourcing site) can be subjected to scrutiny by the FTC, but reviews have often been bought. So far I'm seeing the $30/hr wage add up but not much else. He says he's still waiting on offers/quotes from his contacts due to a trade show in the area, which is fine - I'll give it another week. Problem is, I'm still having to look into cert. reqs and tell the agent exactly is needed... let's be honest, I have no idea and I end up googling it to *try* to figure it out. Very few Chinese sourcing agents know much about anything outside of China.

This experience is making me wonder if I wouldn't be better off paying a service like Import Dojo a flat rate, even if only using them for the 'sourcing' part since they claim to cover this aspect of product sourcing among others. See answer to 1a above.

2. While researching various products on Amazon, I got an idea. I looked everywhere and did not see anyone selling or manufacturing this specific item, but many well-selling products that danced around the concept without doing it outright. And even then, none have my 'bonus feature' which adds value to the product's concept in addition to the product's category.

The modification is fairly simple, I don't think manufacturing costs would increase much if any over competitor products. Even now with this rough concept in mind I am already seeing possible ways to expand on it with bundled sets, other complementary items to build out brand product line, etc.

Problem is, I have no clue where to go from here. Do I contact manufacturers on alibaba, share my idea, and see if they can make it? Hire someone to do product design and file a provisional patent? Something else? Totally lost on this one.

I hate to see you so lost. If you care to let me know confidentially via PM what the product is and the improvement, I should be able, with my extensive manufacturing industry experience, to give you an idea whether cost of the modification will be low or high. I will also make any suggestions I think might help in your quest to improve on the product.

Walter
 
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K465

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@K465

I hate to see you so lost. If you care to let me know confidentially via PM what the product is and the improvement, I should be able, with my extensive manufacturing industry experience, to give you an idea whether cost of the modification will be low or high. I will also make any suggestions I think might help in your quest to improve on the product.

Walter

Thank you so much, I will gladly take you up on that offer. I will PM you full details soon.
 
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Bought the ebook and had a read, some good stuff in there.

I've found a manufacturer/trading company. I've looked through their bureau report and it looks like they only manufacture one product, and are a trading company for a bunch of others. However it looks like they have trademarks/licenses to sell these products (hard to zoom in and see from reports)

I haven't been able to find a manufacturer just yet that will manufacture what I'm after yet except this supplier. This is a common household item, so I struggle to see how they'd have a licence for this product. Any advice on this?

Also, do you know if tariffs are applied on raw materials or produced goods too?
 

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Bought the ebook and had a read, some good stuff in there.

I've found a manufacturer/trading company. I've looked through their bureau report and it looks like they only manufacture one product, and are a trading company for a bunch of others. However it looks like they have trademarks/licenses to sell these products (hard to zoom in and see from reports)

I haven't been able to find a manufacturer just yet that will manufacture what I'm after yet except this supplier. This is a common household item, so I struggle to see how they'd have a licence for this product. Any advice on this?

Also, do you know if tariffs are applied on raw materials or produced goods too?
Glad to hear you like my book. I have been told by many Fastlane members that it has saved them lots of money - sometimes thousands.

You never know what IP might apply, such as registered design. It might well be that they are selling under license.

Many genuine manufacturers also act as traders. Sometimes it is just because they set up a trading company to handle their export business, but in most cases it's because they see products that complement their own product, making it simple for them to market.

Tariffs are charged on raw materials as well as on finished products.

Walter.
 

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Cheers, that's a real bummer. Adding on 25% costs makes a lot of the products I'm looking at unviable.
Maybe this needs more explanation. The raw materials are only subject to tariffs when imported as raw materials.

The raw material component might affect the tariff rate, but that rate is determined primarily by the type of product.

For example a tool might be made of aluminum, but would not be subject to tariff as aluminum. It would be assessed as a tool.

Hope that helps.

Walter
 

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Maybe this needs more explanation. The raw materials are only subject to tariffs when imported as raw materials.

The raw material component might affect the tariff rate, but that rate is determined primarily by the type of product.

For example a tool might be made of aluminum, but would not be subject to tariff as aluminum. It would be assessed as a tool.

Hope that helps.

Walter

You're right, that's where I'm confused. My product is steel. Under the tariff list from today, 7326.90.86, it states, iron or steel, articles, nesoi.

The wording makes it sound like a blanket rule covering anything iron or steel. Although I'm not sure why they bothered listing all the other steel and iron codes.
 

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Walter Hay

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You're right, that's where I'm confused. My product is steel. Under the tariff list from today, 7326.90.86, it states, iron or steel, articles, nesoi.

The wording makes it sound like a blanket rule covering anything iron or steel. Although I'm not sure why they bothered listing all the other steel and iron codes.
I doubt that you will find anything but industrial type products such as chains, pipes etc.
If you want to search for you specific product in that massive list, open the PDF file and type Control F.

Then in the search panel that appears in one corner of the screen type in the product that you want to import. You might need to keep clicking your way through the document. If your product is not there you have no worries.

Walter
 
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Hey Walter, excellent thread (and book).

I'm looking at importing a product part and I only found 2 reputable suppliers on the made-in-china.com website according to the instructions that you had outlined in your book on vetting suppliers.

I would like to get additional quotes, and the particular product part that I'm looking to import is part of a larger product. There are quite a few suppliers of the larger product that I found on the hktdc.com website and I'm going to ask the manufacturers to just supply me that specific part, although it may take a little bit of customization.

I was just wondering: if a supplier says that they only sell through the specific website that I found them on, should they be trusted? Similarly, if a supplier hasn't been to trade shows, should I assume that they are scammers? (Whether they're found on the hktdc website or alibaba or made-in-china etc.)

Many thanks!
 
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Walter Hay

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Hey Walter, excellent thread (and book).

I'm looking at importing a product part and I only found 2 reputable suppliers on the made-in-china.com website according to the instructions that you had outlined in your book on vetting suppliers.

I would like to get additional quotes, and the particular product part that I'm looking to import is part of a larger product. There are quite a few suppliers of the larger product that I found on the hktdc.com website and I'm going to ask the manufacturers to just supply me that specific part, although it may take a little bit of customization.

I was just wondering: if a supplier says that they only sell through the specific website that I found them on, should they be trusted? Similarly, if a supplier hasn't been to trade shows, should I assume that they are scammers? (Whether they're found on the trustworthy hktdc website or alibaba or made-in-china etc.)

Many thanks!
It is not unusual for suppliers to only register on one B2B site, so if they want to only deal with you through that site I see no problem unless it is a site such as DHGate, ec21.com, and others that have terrible records as you can find by seraching such places as Ripoffreport.com.

Bear in mind that to get a listing with at least a badge indicating that the business is trustworthy even if they are scammers, can cost thousands.

Walter
 
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Hello Walter,

I was curious to your advice/opinion on this one. I have 4 potential suppliers for a particular product.

2 of them are certainly manufacturers of this particular product. One of them has verified reports (TUV or SGS inspection) on their production capacity for this product specifically and even provides free logo branding and the other has many indications that they are producing this product themselves.

The 2 others are verified manufacturers too, but in their inspection reports there is no mention of manufacturing tools/machines for this product specifically. So they might be manufacturers for other products and just trading this particular product. One of these suppliers is the cheapest of them all ($1 cheaper per piece) and the other provides a shipping option that is very attractive because the shipping time is 4 weeks instead of the 6 weeks (better for cash flow) that the other manufacturers and freight forwarders can provide.

Now I could ask the 2 manufacturers/traders for pictures of their machinery/tools as evidence of them being manufacturers, but you never know whether they are speaking the truth. Let's say they can provide these pictures, would you choose these manufacturers because of their lowers costs and attractive shipping options instead of those that are surely manufacturers (for example they have verified production capacity reports)? Or would you choose one of the two other manufacturers because you can be sure that they are manufacturers?

A possibility could be that the ''non-manufacturers'' are giving me low prices as a lead so I become a customer and in the next shipments not give any discounts that a manufacturer on the other hand can offerd to give. Does such a lead magnet get used often in China?

Sorry for the wall of text! I tried to keep it short.

Much love!





 

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@LPPC I suggest that before deciding, it would be worth doing a thorough Google search for those companies, and see what more you can find out about them. You might need to search a minimum of 5 pages

Manufacturers often have a trading division and it makes it difficult to be sure which product they actually make and which they resell.

If you know what machinery is needed to produce your product, and they have that equipment, as you suggest, that should be proof. The problem with that is that they could use photos from any source and not have the machinery themselves.

The only way to be certain, other than visiting the factory yourself, is to pay an inspection agent to do a limited factory audit. Cost should not exceed $200 if you only ask for proof that hey manufacture product X.

Walter
 

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@LPPC I suggest that before deciding, it would be worth doing a thorough Google search for those companies, and see what more you can find out about them. You might need to search a minimum of 5 pages

Manufacturers often have a trading division and it makes it difficult to be sure which product they actually make and which they resell.

If you know what machinery is needed to produce your product, and they have that equipment, as you suggest, that should be proof. The problem with that is that they could use photos from any source and not have the machinery themselves.

The only way to be certain, other than visiting the factory yourself, is to pay an inspection agent to do a limited factory audit. Cost should not exceed $200 if you only ask for proof that hey manufacture product X.

Walter

Thank you for the response and advice!

I will do a Google search for these manufacturers. For now it seems like it is safest to go with the ones I am sure that they are manufacturers, even though the others are cheaper or have better shipping options.

Is it maybe an option to ask what freight forwarder this particular company is using? Or will they find it rude or something?
 
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Thank you for the response and advice!

I will do a Google search for these manufacturers. For now it seems like it is safest to go with the ones I am sure that they are manufacturers, even though the others are cheaper or have better shipping options.

Is it maybe an option to ask what freight forwarder this particular company is using? Or will they find it rude or something?
I would ask.

One of the many problems in using Chinese forwarders is their tendency to be slow in shipping, quite often a result of transshipping with long delays waiting for a flight or ship that suits their budget.

Walter
 

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I would ask.

One of the many problems in using Chinese forwarders is their tendency to be slow in shipping, quite often a result of transshipping with long delays waiting for a flight or ship that suits their budget.

Walter
Thank you for the quick response Walter.

If for example a Chinese freight forwarders says shipping takes 4 weeks, then often it actually takes more time than that? Meaning they quote you faster shipping times than the reality?

You have warned us against using Chinese freight forwarders and I am taking that warning seriously. But I guess we can trust Chinese forwarders that the manufacturer themselves are using or Chinese freight forwarders that for example my friend in a different country (Germany) is succesfully using? I myself want to import in The Netherlands.
 
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Thank you for the quick response Walter.

If for example a Chinese freight forwarders says shipping takes 4 weeks, then often it actually takes more time than that? Meaning they quote you faster shipping times than the reality?

You have warned us against using Chinese freight forwarders and I am taking that warning seriously. But I guess we can trust Chinese forwarders that the manufacturer themselves are using or Chinese freight forwarders that for example my friend in a different country (Germany) is succesfully using? I myself want to import in The Netherlands.
Some Chinese forwarders will deliver on time, but I was referring to a common practice that results in delays. Those delays are most often due to shipping operating according to the forwarder's profit potential rather than the importer's needs.

The only way to be confident is to check out references, reviews, or testimonials of any that you are considering.

The manufacturers might not be using a suitable forwarder. That is why I said I would ask the manufacturer to name the one they had chosen. That way you can do some due diligence on them.

It is probably worth taking notice of a recommendation from your friend in Germany.

Regards,
Walter
P.S. If you use that forwarder it could benefit others if you post the results after you receive the goods.
 
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Some Chinese forwarders will deliver on time, but I was referring to a common practice that results in delays. Those delays are most often due to shipping operating according to the forwarder's profit potential rather than the importer's needs.

The only way to be confident is to check out references, reviews, or testimonials of any that you are considering.

The manufacturers might not be using a suitable forwarder. That is why I said I would ask the manufacturer to name the one they had chosen. That way you can do some due diligence on them.

It is probably worth taking notice of a recommendation from your friend in Germany.

Regards,
Walter
P.S. If you use that forwarder it could benefit others if you post the results after you receive the goods.

Hello Walter,

I don't know why, but I haven't thought of checking reviews online. I thought none were available because it is on the subject of freight forwarders. I will definitely look into it.

I have gotten quotes from several Dutch freight forwarders so far, so I am not exclusively considering Chinese forwarders. I just want to weigh the options.

Do you know whether (Chinese) freight forwarders that are members of FIATA (fiata.com) are credible because of their membership?

Yes it would be definitely of value to the members here, I will do that! Maybe even open a progress thread on here.

Thanks Walter!
 

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I would be confident in using Chinese members of FIATA, but check with the association first to make sure they are current members.

It is simply a matter of searching for their name on the FIATA site.

Walter
 

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