Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.

[Late Start]

I've actually had three successful shipments from them prior to this (it was the third that was uncured and led to this mess). This latest shipment was inspected, and actually failed the inspection, but only because I had sent incorrect size specifications, so I waived the failure and told my agent to ship.

The way it appears to have been arranged is that once it arrives in the US (I'm assuming Dallas), then the tracking numbers I've been provided will start showing tracking information. Basically, they shipped the product, and the Chinese middlemen in the States entered the tracking and shipping information via UPS, so I've got 21 verified tracking numbers for a UPS Ground shipment from Texas to my door that as yet shows no pick-up, which is not alarming at this point because the shipment should just be arriving in the next couple of days. The invoice did specify door to door, just not how it go from one door to another (my own failing there).

I started to get really worried this morning, but had a couple of non-rookies tell me that this isn't uncommon. I think the ultimate failure is my own - the previous shipments were half the size of this, and all went UPS Air Express door to door. Since my only specification was UPS, and the shipment was over double sized, which is pretty close to if not right at pallet size, I'm thinking they sent it air freight (my agent referred to it as "UPS Line") with the middleman providing the warehouse for the UPS ground shipment to be picked up. My agent said UPS quoted him 8-10 days before it landed in the US, so we're still at the tail end of that spectrum.

@Walter Hay is there a way to see if the company who I am purchasing from is who they say they are, and that my agent truly works for them?

 

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[Walter Hay]

I've actually had three successful shipments from them prior to this (it was the third that was uncured and led to this mess). This latest shipment was inspected, and actually failed the inspection, but only because I had sent incorrect size specifications, so I waived the failure and told my agent to ship.

The way it appears to have been arranged is that once it arrives in the US (I'm assuming Dallas), then the tracking numbers I've been provided will start showing tracking information. Basically, they shipped the product, and the Chinese middlemen in the States entered the tracking and shipping information via UPS, so I've got 21 verified tracking numbers for a UPS Ground shipment from Texas to my door that as yet shows no pick-up, which is not alarming at this point because the shipment should just be arriving in the next couple of days. The invoice did specify door to door, just not how it go from one door to another (my own failing there).

I started to get really worried this morning, but had a couple of non-rookies tell me that this isn't uncommon. I think the ultimate failure is my own - the previous shipments were half the size of this, and all went UPS Air Express door to door. Since my only specification was UPS, and the shipment was over double sized, which is pretty close to if not right at pallet size, I'm thinking they sent it air freight (my agent referred to it as "UPS Line") with the middleman providing the warehouse for the UPS ground shipment to be picked up. My agent said UPS quoted him 8-10 days before it landed in the US, so we're still at the tail end of that spectrum.

@Walter Hay is there a way to see if the company who I am purchasing from is who they say they are, and that my agent truly works for them?

I am still concerned at what is happening. The tracking numbers for ground shipment by UPS couldn't normally be prepared until the shipment is received by UPS. Have you contacted UPS? I know they are difficult to talk to but you might be lucky enough to find someone who will help.

If this is all genuine, UPS would have handled the shipment from China to their warehouse or at least to the airport (Dallas?) I have been unable to locate any business by the name of PRO SUCCESS (DALLAS) LTD, and given that they say they are at Cornell TX I have serious doubts that they even exist, because that town barely exists and is hardly a place where an international freight forwarder would operate. Cornell is not listed in any index of towns in Teaxs and is not even included in a list of ghost towns.

Don't believe everything a supplier tells you. I think you should act urgently. UPS first but if no help there and your supplier doesn't give you evidence that you can check from point of shipment to current location of the goods, PayPal and preferably your credit card supplier.

I hope I am anxious for you without good reason.

Send me the supplier's name and I will check them out for you.

Regards,
Walter

 

[Late Start]

I am still concerned at what is happening. The tracking numbers for ground shipment by UPS couldn't normally be prepared until the shipment is received by UPS. Have you contacted UPS? I know they are difficult to talk to but you might be lucky enough to find someone who will help.

If this is all genuine, UPS would have handled the shipment from China to their warehouse or at least to the airport (Dallas?) I have been unable to locate any business by the name of PRO SUCCESS (DALLAS) LTD, and given that they say they are at Cornell TX I have serious doubts that they even exist, because that town barely exists and is hardly a place where an international freight forwarder would operate. Cornell is not listed in any index of towns in Teaxs and is not even included in a list of ghost towns.

Don't believe everything a supplier tells you. I think you should act urgently. UPS first but if no help there and your supplier doesn't give you evidence that you can check from point of shipment to current location of the goods, PayPal and preferably your credit card supplier.

I hope I am anxious for you without good reason.

Send me the supplier's name and I will check them out for you.

Regards,
Walter

PMed you all the info I have. Many thanks for the offer of assistance. Hopefully it's all just rookie anxiety on my part and the shipment will be at my door at the beginning of next week.

 

[Walter Hay]

PMed you all the info I have. Many thanks for the offer of assistance. Hopefully it's all just rookie anxiety on my part and the shipment will be at my door at the beginning of next week.

It's looking good. See my two PMs to you.

For the benefit of others, it is not uncommon for air freight shipments (not air courier) to be delayed because they can travel via a roundabout route, or sit and wait for more cargo to fill the air cargo container.

I think all of this anxiety might just be due to the inexperience of the supplier rather than rookie anxiety on the part of Late Start.

Walter

 

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[petkovic]

Thanks for the advice but I have several SKUs under my brand with this niche so I'm not looking to switch. If the product is same for all manufacturers than I believe there is a barrier to entry when I can develop a better one. However, before I do I want to make sure I deplete all of my resources in finding a supplier that has something truly unique from the rest.

No harm meant! Thought you were just starting out :embarrased:

 

[exclusives88]

No harm meant! Thought you were just starting out :embarrased:

I'm not an expert Have much to learn! I just spoke with Walter and I am working with a manufacturer. There aren't many that makes this product. They are working with me on improving the product so let's just hope the quality is much better.

 

[petkovic]

Walter,

an update from my side. For all others, please note that I intend to import a product that has a Lithium-Ion battery.
I have asked the supplier about CE certification of the product and about possibilities to deal with the "ban" of Li-Ion batteries on aircraft.

Regarding CE, they replied that they can do CE depending on the order quantity. They earlier said that they have only "hand samples" (handmade, I suppose) and that the tooling is not finished, so I am guessing they have never sold this product before. Ehm... Even if I import and sell a "non-commercial" amount of samples they will need certification, right? I don't know what this order quantity would be but I am guessing it would be below what I would want to order as samples. I think my options are:
1. Import samples without the certification and only check them for quality and function (don't sell them). Still, I expose myself to the risk of problems in customs, right?
2. Make some kind of deal where I pay at least a part of the cost and have it balanced with future orders. How much is the cost of a CE certification for this kind of product?

Any thoughts? I am also considering ordering (and selling) a sample of another model of theirs that has CE but misses my USP just to check their quality, but I don't like the idea very much.

Regarding the battery (as I would prefer Air Courier/Air Freight): The battery is smaller than 100Wh so according to the new regulations it can travel on cargo aircraft but the weight of batteries in an individual package must not exceed 5 kg. What is meant by the package? They gave me a quote earlier where they put 40 units in a carton (which should amount to a battery weight of under 2,8 kg. But if these cartons are strung together on a palette or something, what would be considered the package according to these regulations? They say it should be ok by air, but I have a feeling they haven't thought it through.

Thanks,
Michael

 

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[#nowhere]

Walter,

an update from my side. For all others, please note that I intend to import a product that has a Lithium-Ion battery.
I have asked the supplier about CE certification of the product and about possibilities to deal with the "ban" of Li-Ion batteries on aircraft.

Regarding CE, they replied that they can do CE depending on the order quantity. They earlier said that they have only "hand samples" (handmade, I suppose) and that the tooling is not finished, so I am guessing they have never sold this product before. Ehm... Even if I import and sell a "non-commercial" amount of samples they will need certification, right? I don't know what this order quantity would be but I am guessing it would be below what I would want to order as samples. I think my options are:
1. Import samples without the certification and only check them for quality and function (don't sell them). Still, I expose myself to the risk of problems in customs, right?
2. Make some kind of deal where I pay at least a part of the cost and have it balanced with future orders. How much is the cost of a CE certification for this kind of product?

Any thoughts? I am also considering ordering (and selling) a sample of another model of theirs that has CE but misses my USP just to check their quality, but I don't like the idea very much.

Regarding the battery (as I would prefer Air Courier/Air Freight): The battery is smaller than 100Wh so according to the new regulations it can travel on cargo aircraft but the weight of batteries in an individual package must not exceed 5 kg. What is meant by the package? They gave me a quote earlier where they put 40 units in a carton (which should amount to a battery weight of under 2,8 kg. But if these cartons are strung together on a palette or something, what would be considered the package according to these regulations? They say it should be ok by air, but I have a feeling they haven't thought it through.

Thanks,
Michael

Hi Petkovic,

as long as I know that you're a german dude, too, here's the story (you may already know) about another german dude overcoming certification issues...

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...first-weeks-100-profit-day.65475/#post-554020

I'm curious what Walter has to say!

 

[Alex H]

Walter,

an update from my side. For all others, please note that I intend to import a product that has a Lithium-Ion battery.
I have asked the supplier about CE certification of the product and about possibilities to deal with the "ban" of Li-Ion batteries on aircraft.

Regarding CE, they replied that they can do CE depending on the order quantity. They earlier said that they have only "hand samples" (handmade, I suppose) and that the tooling is not finished, so I am guessing they have never sold this product before. Ehm... Even if I import and sell a "non-commercial" amount of samples they will need certification, right? I don't know what this order quantity would be but I am guessing it would be below what I would want to order as samples. I think my options are:
1. Import samples without the certification and only check them for quality and function (don't sell them). Still, I expose myself to the risk of problems in customs, right?
2. Make some kind of deal where I pay at least a part of the cost and have it balanced with future orders. How much is the cost of a CE certification for this kind of product?

Any thoughts? I am also considering ordering (and selling) a sample of another model of theirs that has CE but misses my USP just to check their quality, but I don't like the idea very much.

Regarding the battery (as I would prefer Air Courier/Air Freight): The battery is smaller than 100Wh so according to the new regulations it can travel on cargo aircraft but the weight of batteries in an individual package must not exceed 5 kg. What is meant by the package? They gave me a quote earlier where they put 40 units in a carton (which should amount to a battery weight of under 2,8 kg. But if these cartons are strung together on a palette or something, what would be considered the package according to these regulations? They say it should be ok by air, but I have a feeling they haven't thought it through.

Thanks,
Michael

Hi

Just stopped by in this thread. I have dealt with shipping items into Europe. Usually its to another forwarder to final destination.
But i can share some tips/advice and maybe Walter can fill you in on the rest.

1. Yes you can import samples without certification. I have sent many samples to Germany and not once, have they ever asked for Certification. But many suppliers may not accept sending that many samples.

2.CE Certification is usually cost between $100 to $5000 USD ( i seen more, depends on electronic). And most likely you need the following CE Certification, ROHS, WEEE and sometimes for some battery devices, you may need some certification for the battery.

3. For shipping you most likely will also need the following CE Declaration of Conformity (letter stating it complies with Euro compliance), MSDS, un38.3 ( for shipping by boat or air for batteries). These may all be additional costs.


For your packing, it sound complicated but its really not. When they say individual package of 5kg, they mean your carton (your package size). It does not count as a palette. If it counts as a palette, palette would be very small . Also if the package was incorrect, the courier wouldn't accept, which means it would fall under your supplier to fix the issues (you shouldn't be paying for it).

 

[petkovic]

Hi Petkovic,

as long as I know that you're a german dude, too, here's the story (you may already know) about another german dude overcoming certification issues...

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...first-weeks-100-profit-day.65475/#post-554020

I'm curious what Walter has to say!

Hi

Just stopped by in this thread. I have dealt with shipping items into Europe. Usually its to another forwarder to final destination.
But i can share some tips/advice and maybe Walter can fill you in on the rest.

1. Yes you can import samples without certification. I have sent many samples to Germany and not once, have they ever asked for Certification. But many suppliers may not accept sending that many samples.

2.CE Certification is usually cost between $100 to $5000 USD ( i seen more, depends on electronic). And most likely you need the following CE Certification, ROHS, WEEE and sometimes for some battery devices, you may need some certification for the battery.

3. For shipping you most likely will also need the following CE Declaration of Conformity (letter stating it complies with Euro compliance), MSDS, un38.3 ( for shipping by boat or air for batteries). These may all be additional costs.


For your packing, it sound complicated but its really not. When they say individual package of 5kg, they mean your carton (your package size). It does not count as a palette. If it counts as a palette, palette would be very small . Also if the package was incorrect, the courier wouldn't accept, which means it would fall under your supplier to fix the issues (you shouldn't be paying for it).

Holy cow! I was not done with my research but I am sure retty sure I would have missed at least some of these requirements. Thank you both (and @RisingStar) for your input, this might have saved me from doing something stupid.

Ok, so this is overall good news because it is definitely not easy to enter this market. I can come up with the capital to provide all required certifications, but it sure hurts. And while I have faith in the market as a whole, I would sleep better having some kind of validation that I can compete in it.

I will follow your advice and figure it out!

Michael

 

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[Money Talks]

Hi Walter,

I’ve been looking to source a specific cosmetic product for some time now. I’m interested in selling it under my own label so I searched for manufacturers who could provide OEM service. I ended up with a list of just two suppliers. I asked them if their product was certified to be imported in the EU, and only one seemed to comply with the requirements: compliance with GMPs, safety assessment (CPSR), no restricted or banned ingredients… I ordered a sample to test the product, and the results were satisfactory. I was ready to place an order with them when I found this forum. After reading your thread and your book, I’ve taken heed of your warnings and I’ve done further research on the supplier. These are my findings and concerns:

1. They advertise themselves both as traders and manufacturers, but I have only found evidence of the former. (In one of your recommended sourcing sites, they are listed as an audited supplier. In the available audit report by Bureau Veritas, they are categorized as a Trading Company.) They claim that they are part of a larger group, which in turn belongs to a bigger enterprise based in Taiwan. They claim the group also owns a technology research center and a factory, but I’ve found no proof of their existence. How could I find out whether the research center and the factory actually exist? I was thinking of hiring the services of a trusted inspection company. Could this be a solution?

2. They claim to be in possession of all sorts of certificates (Intertek GMPC, SGS, ISO 9001, MSDS, AZO, etc.), and to conform EU and FDA cosmetic regulations, but these could not be confirmed. They show thumbnails of the certificates, but they are too small to be read and can’t be enlarged. How should I go about make them prove to me that those certificates are real? Should I just plainly ask them to send me a readable copy so that I could check their validity?

3. The difference between their MOQ for a private label and their MOQ for their own brand is huge: 5000 vs. 250. Is this reasonable?

4. There are a few details that disconcert me and make me suspicious of them:

a) They claim to have a patent on two of their related products, but I know for a fact that at least one of them (or a very similar one) is already patented in the US and Europe by another company. Anyway, I searched for the patents in www.chinatrademarkoffice.com with no success.

b) Many pictures of their plant and premises seem to be legit, while a couple of others have been poorly photoshopped (the name of the company on the wall at the factory entrance is one of them).

c) They claim to have attended to the Cosmoprof Asia HK Trade Show in 2013, but I could not find them in the exhibitors list.

Are these warning signs strong enough to be discouraged altogether?

I’m in a dilemma. Your thoughts on all this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Miguel

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter,

I’ve been looking to source a specific cosmetic product for some time now. I’m interested in selling it under my own label so I searched for manufacturers who could provide OEM service. I ended up with a list of just two suppliers. I asked them if their product was certified to be imported in the EU, and only one seemed to comply with the requirements: compliance with GMPs, safety assessment (CPSR), no restricted or banned ingredients… I ordered a sample to test the product, and the results were satisfactory. I was ready to place an order with them when I found this forum. After reading your thread and your book, I’ve taken heed of your warnings and I’ve done further research on the supplier. These are my findings and concerns:

1. They advertise themselves both as traders and manufacturers, but I have only found evidence of the former. (In one of your recommended sourcing sites, they are listed as an audited supplier. In the available audit report by Bureau Veritas, they are categorized as a Trading Company.) They claim that they are part of a larger group, which in turn belongs to a bigger enterprise based in Taiwan. They claim the group also owns a technology research center and a factory, but I’ve found no proof of their existence. How could I find out whether the research center and the factory actually exist? I was thinking of hiring the services of a trusted inspection company. Could this be a solution?

2. They claim to be in possession of all sorts of certificates (Intertek GMPC, SGS, ISO 9001, MSDS, AZO, etc.), and to conform EU and FDA cosmetic regulations, but these could not be confirmed. They show thumbnails of the certificates, but they are too small to be read and can’t be enlarged. How should I go about make them prove to me that those certificates are real? Should I just plainly ask them to send me a readable copy so that I could check their validity?

3. The difference between their MOQ for a private label and their MOQ for their own brand is huge: 5000 vs. 250. Is this reasonable?

4. There are a few details that disconcert me and make me suspicious of them:

a) They claim to have a patent on two of their related products, but I know for a fact that at least one of them (or a very similar one) is already patented in the US and Europe by another company. Anyway, I searched for the patents in www.chinatrademarkoffice.com with no success.

b) Many pictures of their plant and premises seem to be legit, while a couple of others have been poorly photoshopped (the name of the company on the wall at the factory entrance is one of them).

c) They claim to have attended to the Cosmoprof Asia HK Trade Show in 2013, but I could not find them in the exhibitors list.

Are these warning signs strong enough to be discouraged altogether?

I’m in a dilemma. Your thoughts on all this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Miguel

I posted a like for your post because I think it will be helpful to others to read both your post and my answer.

Here is my response in order:
1. Many, if not most manufacturers will also be traders at times. They see a demand for a product that they can obtain at a good price, so they offer it for sale. Those audit reports are only useful if you read them as you have done, and if it identifies the supplier as a trader, they are not real manufacturers. You can trust those reports.

It's more difficult to track down information on Taiwanese companies than it is for mainland Chinese ones. Checking ownership will be a very time consuming job, and I would suggest you don't believe what they have told you, unless they can provide proof. You could ask them for contact details for their parent company.

Alternatively, the idea of using a trusted inspection company to check them out could be the answer. I wouldn't spend the money until you have done all else that you can.

2. You need to be able to contact all of the certifying authorities involved in order to confirm validity, so yes, you need legible copies, and they must be in English.

3. That MOQ sounds excessive unless the private labeling involves a big expenditure such as molds. There are relatively low cost methods of labeling that could be done in Spain. If you want to proceed along those lines I will send you some suggestions. I am currently writing a book on how to produce labels for private labeling. This is an area in which I have considerable expertise.

4.
a) Unlike patents for many product types, patents for chemicals are quite easy to bypass with small variations, so their claim could be genuine.
b) Photoshopping and pirating of images is commonplace. You can't believe everything you see. The one you mention of the factory sign is a strong indication that they are almost certainly not manufacturers.
c) Contact the exhibition promoters and ask. Lists of past exhibitors are not often up to date. If you find that they did actually exhibit, that would be a good sign.

I think your concern is reasonable, but they might just be gilding the lily, so it's probably worth persisting with your research. Let me know if you need more help. One thing you could do is to ask them for references.

Walter

 

[Money Talks]

I posted a like for your post because I think it will be helpful to others to read both your post and my answer.

Here is my response in order:
1. Many, if not most manufacturers will also be traders at times. They see a demand for a product that they can obtain at a good price, so they offer it for sale. Those audit reports are only useful if you read them as you have done, and if it identifies the supplier as a trader, they are not real manufacturers. You can trust those reports.

It's more difficult to track down information on Taiwanese companies than it is for mainland Chinese ones. Checking ownership will be a very time consuming job, and I would suggest you don't believe what they have told you, unless they can provide proof. You could ask them for contact details for their parent company.

Alternatively, the idea of using a trusted inspection company to check them out could be the answer. I wouldn't spend the money until you have done all else that you can.

2. You need to be able to contact all of the certifying authorities involved in order to confirm validity, so yes, you need legible copies, and they must be in English.

3. That MOQ sounds excessive unless the private labeling involves a big expenditure such as molds. There are relatively low cost methods of labeling that could be done in Spain. If you want to proceed along those lines I will send you some suggestions. I am currently writing a book on how to produce labels for private labeling. This is an area in which I have considerable expertise.

4.
a) Unlike patents for many product types, patents for chemicals are quite easy to bypass with small variations, so their claim could be genuine.
b) Photoshopping and pirating of images is commonplace. You can't believe everything you see. The one you mention of the factory sign is a strong indication that they are almost certainly not manufacturers.
c) Contact the exhibition promoters and ask. Lists of past exhibitors are not often up to date. If you find that they did actually exhibit, that would be a good sign.

I think your concern is reasonable, but they might just be gilding the lily, so it's probably worth persisting with your research. Let me know if you need more help. One thing you could do is to ask them for references.

Walter

Walter,

Thanks for your diligence in answering my questions. These are my comments to your response:

1. The supplier uses two different names on their listings: one is the name of the company audited by Bureau Veritas (a trading company according to the report); the other one is the name of the group that apparently encompasses the said trading company, a research center and a factory. Following your advice, I’ve done further research over the weekend and I’ve made some interesting findings. First, I noticed a web address in one of the pictures on the group website. I checked it and it seems to belong to the parent Taiwan-based enterprise. This website includes an ICP number and a link to the website of the supplier. These two companies are obviously interrelated. Second, I have found trade data of the group in Datamyne, Panjiva and ImportGenius. There are several records of shipments to different US companies. As a matter of fact, I have tracked down under which brands these companies are selling the private label product provided by the supplier. It’s good to see that some are currently being sold on Amazon with success, according to the customer reviews.

What do you make of this additional information, Walter?

2. Ok. I’ll do that.

3. There’s no molding involved. In fact, nothing is built on purpose for me, not even the bottles. The private labelling service includes printing their template bottles and the packaging with my design and brand. I’ll try to negotiate a smaller MOQ using your sample order tactic. With regards to doing the labelling myself, it’s an interesting idea, but I just want to keep things simple for now, so I’d rather let them do all that work for me. Nevertheless, I’ll definitely be interested in reading your book once it is available.

4. a) The patented products are not chemicals or formulas, but accessories related to the cosmetic product itself. The patent certificates appear in the Bureau Veritas report as authorized. Does this mean that the patents have been granted?

b) This is disheartening, but in the light of the new evidence, this could just be an unnecessary attempt to gild the lily, as you said. We’ll see.

c) Ok. I’ll do that.

In your last paragraph you suggest I could ask them for references. Do you mean customer feedback?

Thanks

 

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[Walter Hay]

Walter,

Thanks for your diligence in answering my questions. These are my comments to your response:

1. The supplier uses two different names on their listings: one is the name of the company audited by Bureau Veritas (a trading company according to the report); the other one is the name of the group that apparently encompasses the said trading company, a research center and a factory. Following your advice, I’ve done further research over the weekend and I’ve made some interesting findings. First, I noticed a web address in one of the pictures on the group website. I checked it and it seems to belong to the parent Taiwan-based enterprise. This website includes an ICP number and a link to the website of the supplier. These two companies are obviously interrelated. Second, I have found trade data of the group in Datamyne, Panjiva and ImportGenius. There are several records of shipments to different US companies. As a matter of fact, I have tracked down under which brands these companies are selling the private label product provided by the supplier. It’s good to see that some are currently being sold on Amazon with success, according to the customer reviews.

What do you make of this additional information, Walter?

2. Ok. I’ll do that.

3. There’s no molding involved. In fact, nothing is built on purpose for me, not even the bottles. The private labelling service includes printing their template bottles and the packaging with my design and brand. I’ll try to negotiate a smaller MOQ using your sample order tactic. With regards to doing the labelling myself, it’s an interesting idea, but I just want to keep things simple for now, so I’d rather let them do all that work for me. Nevertheless, I’ll definitely be interested in reading your book once it is available.

4. a) The patented products are not chemicals or formulas, but accessories related to the cosmetic product itself. The patent certificates appear in the Bureau Veritas report as authorized. Does this mean that the patents have been granted?

b) This is disheartening, but in the light of the new evidence, this could just be an unnecessary attempt to gild the lily, as you said. We’ll see.

c) Ok. I’ll do that.

In your last paragraph you suggest I could ask them for references. Do you mean customer feedback?

Thanks

I'm glad to be of help.

Congratulations on the work you have done to identify the real ownership of the business. The additional information you have mentioned would give me more confidence in dealing with them

I will PM you with some suggestions about labelling. You will be amazed at how easy and low cost it can be to get what labelling you want done in Spain.

The word authorized means that they have a licence to use the patent or to sell a product that is patented.

References would usually just be the names of customers. That makes it possible for you to contact the customers direct, and you would then know that the feedback they give you is straight from the horse's mouth and not made up by the supplier.

Walter

 

[Money Talks]

I'm glad to be of help.

Congratulations on the work you have done to identify the real ownership of the business. The additional information you have mentioned would give me more confidence in dealing with them

I will PM you with some suggestions about labelling. You will be amazed at how easy and low cost it can be to get what labelling you want done in Spain.

The word authorized means that they have a licence to use the patent or to sell a product that is patented.

References would usually just be the names of customers. That makes it possible for you to contact the customers direct, and you would then know that the feedback they give you is straight from the horse's mouth and not made up by the supplier.

Walter

Thank you for your help, Walter. It’s good to hear that you would be more confident in dealing with them now. I will check the validity of the certificates, ask them for references and try to reduce their MOQ. If everything is OK, I will probably place a sample order with them.

 

[YoungBroward]

how many samples would you order of a product? The samples for me costs $32 each, the supplier says they will return the money if I do a bulk order.

 

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[petkovic]

Walter,

I am afraid that after weeks of good communication with a promising supplier, I have hit a brick wall. Earlier they quoted me a price (of 6.6 USD per unit) based on an MOQ of 3,000. The quote also mentioned setup costs of 350 USD for orders below the MOQ. Now I asked them to quote me for a trial order of 150 USD but I got this response:

"Hi Michael

We are a manufacturer and we do not keep stock, so we cannot make 150.
Our moq is 3k and trial order we accept 1k...

Sorry about that.

Thanks
Sam"

Of course I will not blindly place an order amounting to almost 7,000 USD with them. Does this happen sometimes and I just have to pack my things and go? Should I persevere and affirm that I intend to cover setup costs of a couple hundred USD? Or is it a sign that they are a trading company after all?

They are based in Hong Kong and claim to have a factory in Dong Guan. This did not make me suspicious. The only thing was that it usually took them a day to respond, which could be an indication that they are checking with the manufacturer themselves.

What do you think?

 

[Scotch]

Hi Walter.

I have a question about verifying a company as a manufacturer which I don't think has been asked.

The domain for the "manufacturer" is a .com with no ICP number listed, looked suspicious so I looked deeper and apparently it is a US server based in Dallas (according to the IP address). Though the address for the building is Hebei District, Tainjin, China.

Does this look weird to you?

I can PM you the domain if you'd be kind enough to spare the time.

Thanks.

Edit: Also, I am talking with another manufacturer (Verified by SGS as manu in audit report), however the report claims that they only have 10 employees total, with 5 making the products. Does this seem feasible considering a quoted output of 1,000,000 pcs/month?

 

[Walter Hay]

how many samples would you order of a product? The samples for me costs $32 each, the supplier says they will return the money if I do a bulk order.

If they will deduct the sample cost from your first full order, that's the best arrangement. Not all suppliers will do that.

The cost of $32 each might be for the product only, with freight costing extra. If so, you should consider reducing your per unit cost by ordering multiples. As a general rule, the more you order, the less cost per unit for freight. Ask them for freight costs for 1, 5, 10 pcs, or whatever numbers you are comfortable with.

Walter

 

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[Walter Hay]

Walter,

I am afraid that after weeks of good communication with a promising supplier, I have hit a brick wall. Earlier they quoted me a price (of 6.6 USD per unit) based on an MOQ of 3,000. The quote also mentioned setup costs of 350 USD for orders below the MOQ. Now I asked them to quote me for a trial order of 150 USD but I got this response:

"Hi Michael

We are a manufacturer and we do not keep stock, so we cannot make 150.
Our moq is 3k and trial order we accept 1k...

Sorry about that.

Thanks
Sam"

Of course I will not blindly place an order amounting to almost 7,000 USD with them. Does this happen sometimes and I just have to pack my things and go? Should I persevere and affirm that I intend to cover setup costs of a couple hundred USD? Or is it a sign that they are a trading company after all?

They are based in Hong Kong and claim to have a factory in Dong Guan. This did not make me suspicious. The only thing was that it usually took them a day to respond, which could be an indication that they are checking with the manufacturer themselves.

What do you think?

What they say could be quite genuine. Probably the bulk of manufacturers don't carry stock, and only set up for a production run once they receive an order.

They will usually produce overruns and these are often used for samples. It could be that they only have a handful of them, so I would ask do they have any, how many, and could they supply those? If they do, maybe you should be content with a very small sample order. This should avoid set up costs for a sample order.

A day for response time is not long. They could be checking with their own factory.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter.

I have a question about verifying a company as a manufacturer which I don't think has been asked.

The domain for the "manufacturer" is a .com with no ICP number listed, looked suspicious so I looked deeper and apparently it is a US server based in Dallas (according to the IP address). Though the address for the building is Hebei District, Tainjin, China.

Does this look weird to you?

I can PM you the domain if you'd be kind enough to spare the time.

Thanks.

Edit: Also, I am talking with another manufacturer (Verified by SGS as manu in audit report), however the report claims that they only have 10 employees total, with 5 making the products. Does this seem feasible considering a quoted output of 1,000,000 pcs/month?

There is no requirement for an ICP number for .com domains, only .cn ones. Even so, the Chinese government seems to have given up policing the ICP rules.

The Dallas server could be a WhoIsGuard location, or the location of the hosting supplier.

I am pleased to see that you are being cautious, but I don't see reason for concern. Send me their name and I will check them out for you.

The small number of employees you refer to in relation to the second company could be manufacturing 1,000,000 pcs/month of products that are molded in multi cavity molds. (Provided that the molds are of good quality.) Give me their name also and I will check for you.

Walter

 

[Scotch]

Thank you for your response.

So would the presence of a .com domain instead of a .cn domain for a Chinese company be a cause of concern in itself? Do .cn domains carry any value over .com domains when scoping out potential manufacturers?

 

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[Walter Hay]

Thank you for your response.

So would the presence of a .com domain instead of a .cn domain for a Chinese company be a cause of concern in itself? Do .cn domains carry any value over .com domains when scoping out potential manufacturers?

No, the majority of Chinese companies now use .com domains except for their Chinese versions. The value of .cn domains has diminished recently due to the Chinese authorities neglecting to enforce the regulations regarding ICP numbers.

Walter

 

[Money Talks]

Hi Walter,

This is an update on my venture. I’m afraid things are not looking very good.

I asked the supplier for copies of the certificates (GMPs, CPSR) and they replied that “...according to the rules of our company, the certificates only provided to the customers who has cooperated with us. Since there will be someone copy the documents, so we need to protect our customers and our interest.” Weird. Then, I asked them to give me the certificate numbers instead, and to my surprise, they did. I tried to check their validity with Intertek but to no avail: they did not answer back. I let the supplier know that, even if they were valid, it would not be possible to import their products in the EU without an attested copy of the certificates. They replied that there was another option: “You can pay $500 as margin, and this amount can be the payment for your following order.” I was now really wary of them. Next, I decided to ask them for the address of the factory, and I got ‘no’ for an answer once more: “It is regret that we do not offer the factory address”.

What’s your take on all this Walter? Is this really not a very suspicious behavior? Should I steer clear of them?

Meanwhile, I contacted another supplier who are real manufacturers according to an assessment report by Bureau Veritas. The problem is that they are offering EXW prices. I’m negotiating now if they will offer me FOB prices instead. By the way, I asked them for references, and they said that they could not disclose the details as they had NDAs signed with their clients. Is this common practice?

Thanks.

 

[Walter Hay]

Hi Walter,

This is an update on my venture. I’m afraid things are not looking very good.

I asked the supplier for copies of the certificates (GMPs, CPSR) and they replied that “...according to the rules of our company, the certificates only provided to the customers who has cooperated with us. Since there will be someone copy the documents, so we need to protect our customers and our interest.” Weird. Then, I asked them to give me the certificate numbers instead, and to my surprise, they did. I tried to check their validity with Intertek but to no avail: they did not answer back. I let the supplier know that, even if they were valid, it would not be possible to import their products in the EU without an attested copy of the certificates. They replied that there was another option: “You can pay $500 as margin, and this amount can be the payment for your following order.” I was now really wary of them. Next, I decided to ask them for the address of the factory, and I got ‘no’ for an answer once more: “It is regret that we do not offer the factory address”.

What’s your take on all this Walter? Is this really not a very suspicious behavior? Should I steer clear of them?

Meanwhile, I contacted another supplier who are real manufacturers according to an assessment report by Bureau Veritas. The problem is that they are offering EXW prices. I’m negotiating now if they will offer me FOB prices instead. By the way, I asked them for references, and they said that they could not disclose the details as they had NDAs signed with their clients. Is this common practice?

Thanks.

Their responses seem to be a cause for concern, but it might be that they have been stung previously and are wary of people trying to get genuine copies for photoshopping alterations. In any case, they are not doing themselves any favors and I would avoid dealing with them.

As a matter of interest, it is easier to use Intertek's certificate authentication capability on their website. All you need to do is type in the certificate number, and supplier name. The only problem with that is that certificates might be in a different name because so many Chinese businesses operate under several names. If a different name appears in your search, you would need to see if it is a related company.

Don't worry about an EXW quote. You don't have to accept a quote for shipping terms that don't suit you. Negotiate the terms you want. If you arrange freight through a freight forwarder, you can get the supplier to quote an EXW price provided it includes loading at their factory. Although not strictly FOB, they would regard that as FOB.

References are often difficult to obtain, and their reason (NDAs) for saying no seems reasonable, and in fact might be a good sign that you are dealing with an ethical company.

Walter

 

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[Money Talks]

Thank you for your opinion, Walter. I will use Intertek’s certificate validation form on their website this time and will keep negotiating the shipping terms with the new supplier. We’ll see how it goes.

 

[Mac]

Hey Walter, thank you for writing your book. It has been extremely helpful.

I've contacted a supplier and it seems as though they're legit. Here's what they're saying about what my sample order will cost:

"Thank you for your information.
You only do one design in one size? what's the order quantity on plan?
We can do customize sample for your confirmation. but cost sample fee around USD50. and delivery freight to Canada by DHL agent cost USD40.
The sample fee will be refunded after place order."

I've been evading answering the order quantity. I'm going to request a small sample order of 100pcs (50 of each color). For the sample order, should I use a freight forwarder and customs broker? Should I ask the supplier to quote me door-to-door cost for 100pcs?

Thanks a lot!

Mac.

 

[Walter Hay]

Hey Walter, thank you for writing your book. It has been extremely helpful.

I've contacted a supplier and it seems as though they're legit. Here's what they're saying about what my sample order will cost:

"Thank you for your information.
You only do one design in one size? what's the order quantity on plan?
We can do customize sample for your confirmation. but cost sample fee around USD50. and delivery freight to Canada by DHL agent cost USD40.
The sample fee will be refunded after place order."

I've been evading answering the order quantity. I'm going to request a small sample order of 100pcs (50 of each color). For the sample order, should I use a freight forwarder and customs broker? Should I ask the supplier to quote me door-to-door cost for 100pcs?

Thanks a lot!

Mac.

The offer to deduct the sample charge ($50, not $90) from your first order is a good sign. I would still ignore the question about planned order quantities. Ignoring a question is a typical Chinese tactic, so they will usually let you get away with it.

Alternatively, you could tell them that your boss wants to test the sample first before deciding on order quantity.

There's no harm in asking them to quote for door to door on 100 pcs., but I would leave that until the sample arrives. A courier charge of $40 for a sample is not unreasonable, so I would ask them to handle that for you. Depending on your location, some couriers will charge a clearance fee, and that can be painful. Check with a local courier to see if they include the clearance in their door to door charge. If in the UK you will be stuck with it, but it does happen elsewhere.

You would need package sizes and weights before getting a quote from a freight forwarder, so that should wait also.

Walter

 

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[stealth09]

Walter thanks for all the valuable information.

I am looking at sourcing out a Natural product and selling here in Canada/USA as a "beauty" product. How do I go about getting it certified or allowed into the country. I couldn't find any valid websites to help me out.

Realistically I can get it shipped to my door from the source country, and start selling. But I would like to ensure I am following all laws. It's a major product already used in North America.

 

[Walter Hay]

Walter thanks for all the valuable information.

I am looking at sourcing out a Natural product and selling here in Canada/USA as a "beauty" product. How do I go about getting it certified or allowed into the country. I couldn't find any valid websites to help me out.

Realistically I can get it shipped to my door from the source country, and start selling. But I would like to ensure I am following all laws. It's a major product already used in North America.

Although you don't have to get FDA approval for cosmetics there are still rules that you should check out here: You should read the whole article. In particular take note of references to color additives.

Provided you comply with those rules there shouldn't be any problem importing the product.

Walter