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Jun 16, 2020
I think you missed the "everyone" part in that post, which you copied here. It's an unedited post btw.

Again, you are not understanding.

for clarity, the rest of the post also talks about "people" which is plural.

Here it is below:

people, no one, everyone.. it's pretty clear Im talking about more than 1 person. Its aimed at more than 1 person.

But like I said before, you're barking the loudest so you must have got hit in the feels when I threw the rock even when I stated in prior posts I wasn't aiming at you and my unedited posts also mention everyone, people, no one.

You are the one who don't gets it. If you are writing a post adressing everyone in this thread, you are including me.
And as I opened the thread and commented about my execution of my project, I just answered your post (which adressed all, myself included).

I am very sure, your next post will be: "I am not commenting anymore as you don't want to understand". Thats fine, leave this thread and let me document my execution.


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May 18, 2014
I think it's wise to avoid taking anything personally on an internet forum and just focus on executing and taking and evaluating advice as it comes in. I read @eliquid initial post and I think what he is essentially pointing out is cut the MVP down in scope even further so you can get started and prove the value proposition as soon as possible. So basically, just write something that does something valuable in the backend and ensure it works, prove the concept and your estimate of difficulty. This is sound advice, particularly for a new developer. It means you start sooner and don't get sidetracked with rabbit holes. It will allow momentum and to validate assumptions. He's right that you don't need to be looking at front end tech initially and that may be counterproductive if you are new and just learning things (since you'll be context switching between different aspects) That being said, I do think it's worth evaluating some things before someone just starts coding (especially if you are new to dev), you can get a lot of things for free if you do a bit of upfront research opposed to just pick a language and start writing, especially with new frameworks being constantly released. This doesn't have to take a long time though.

FWIW, my current project started out as custom software I wrote for my own e-commerce store to solve a need I had. I wrote it with no front end and interacted with it via python scripts and terminal. This started to provide a lot of value for my store despite the clunky interface and I figured other stores may have a similar need, so I found some people complaining about the problem I had (and solved) on various forums. I reached out and realized there was a definite appetite for this and lined up some beta testers for a generalized version of my product. Only after that did I create the UI mocks for how the generalized product would work so I could review them with the beta testers to get feedback. Before I wrote any code on the backend the first thing I did was create a flow diagram showing key data flows and this defined the backend architecture (this took a couple hours initially and then was refined over time as I found issues), I then started to write code based on the arch. I pretty much always draw up a high level data flow diagram of key flows before writing any code as I find it easier to find gaps then if I'm inside a function stub. Once the backend is done and tested I'll write the UI. It's probably also worth noting that pretty much everything I wrote quick and dirty for my own store will be scrapped but it did prove the concept.

Edit - because I think it's worth highlighting and think it's likely what @eliquid was getting at - there's a difference between building functional software and building sellable software. It can be an academic and technical exercise to build functional software, however you only have sellable software if someone wants it enough to pay for it. That's why the quickest, leanest way to MVP is important for someone building software to sell.
Last edited:

Mike Stoian

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Dec 24, 2019
I second the back-end first approach. But I dunno I just sort of did it that way because that was the hardest part. I wanted to see if I could build it first. Also in my case, I just built it with whatever technologies I was comfortable in. But if you're not comfortable enough to build it from scratch in any technology, I understand why you'd want to do some research on tech stacks. That's what I did in the beginning and then while learning to build my idea I actually got a job as a developer. And then I saw just how much more stuff I needed to know if I want to build stuff from scratch.

Heck, only last month I finished a HUGE project at my job that I worked all alone on. The nightmare wasn't in the coding, it was in all the third party integrations, google analytics, Sirv image optimisations, customer tracking, email marketing, order exports, warehouse synching and payment integrations. Now I realise a lot of these are going to be very useful for my site too. Especially analytics and email marketing


Jun 16, 2020
Yeah you are right @OverByte and thanks for sharing your experience. I broke down the MVP to functionality that is really required and is just enough to provide (sellable) value.

@Mike Stoian Yes it is always nice to take something out of earlier projects and use it in the new one.

Last week I began with the backend and Firebase really takes care of a lot, but I haven't really figured out everything yet.

It makes deployment, scaling and handling data really easy. In my last project we had to do a lot more in the backend to get it working.

Especially the real-time database in Firebase is nice. I can directly see changes.

Sometimes it is hard to ask the right questions and search for the problem one may face, but I hope that gets better with time. In my last project this was also the case, but when time went by, searching for solutions got easier.

I also had some small accomplishments. It feels really nice if something finally works and keeps me motivated.


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Jul 30, 2018
I'm currently also building out a SaaS business and I went into it without much planning this time.

I've tried building SaaS businesses in the past and they all failed because I was to stuck on the code, doing research, getting stuck along the way and not really making any money.

This time around I took an entirely different approach. I took an idea for a market I'm an authority in, validated it by talking to my target audience (via my network and linkedin) and started doing some pitch meetings for it.

Once I had my first pitch meeting in, I developed the initial MVP in only 1.5 days (not fully functional, just functional enough to show in a Screenshare during the Zoom meeting) build on ClickUp as the front-end interface and Zapier as the backend. Very very basic, and nothing that would work in the real world. Just a toy MVP to show prospects.

I then sold that first client for 10k, another one for close to 10k a week later and a smaller 5k package the same week.

Once I had this kind of validation, I started to build out the solution in a custom way. So not one central tool that manages all clients, but a separate (basic) setup for each client. That allowed me to think only about the features they needed, nothing else.

I consider that product build my second MVP, because it's still not a fully fledged software. It was build very basic again, with ClickUp as the interface, Integromat for the backend logic and Airtable for the database, as well as half a dozen other tools it integrates with that my clients are using.

All setup and delivered to the clients within a few weeks.

Not the nicest setup from a development perspective, but my clients love it. It does exactly what they dreamed of and more. I'm building amazing case studies with them, which I can use for my marketing in the future, while I figure out how to build a properly scalable software solution out of this.

I think my biggest lesson on why I succeeded this time and didn't in the past is because:
1) I sold before I built, which validated my idea and gave me the resources to build it out
2) I build the first functional MVP by doing frequent calls with my first clients to figure out what features to build and where to focus my time at

Now, I'm still not at a point where I have a hyper scalable software, but I do have the software / backend logic that delivered these amazing case studies, I do have validated the idea, I have bootstrapped my capital for this project in a matter of weeks and validated marketing copy ideas along the way.
Still a lot of work needed to be done, but this time around I set myself up for much more success because I approached things differently than before.

Instead of mockups and marketing plans, everyone in this thread should have coded up the MVP of the product by now, in a language they can handle.

Protip, this isn't about building a front end. Why build a frontend if you don't have the backend function ready and working.
I never really understood the true purpose of an MVP in the past. But thanks to your posts on here I approached my idea this time much different from a few years ago!

My initial MVP really was just build in 1.5 days using ClickUp (a highly customizable project management solution) and Zapier as the backend functionality to show of core ideas.
It had nothing to do with writing code or even developing anything front-end related.


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May 18, 2021
First let me start by stating that I am not being condescending, but truly inquiring. What is Business Informatics? I am an engineer with an MBA, and I have not heard of this. Over the last 2 years I spent independently learning how to code software applications (SaaS) using ruby on rails. Not for pedigree, but just to help me get to my goals. One of my projects is to turn my 15+ years in manufacturing quality engineering and make a SaaS application that can help manufacturers find the right supplier using Supplier Quality Engineering tools.

What type of SAAS are you planning on starting? Is you why strong enough to get you through the development, execution, and assumption of risk it will take to get you through it all? Usually money does not help with this. Who are you going to help, and is there a vision to support this?
I'm just asking out of curiocity because I work as a Marketing Director in Oil and Gas, as EPC contractor. We integrate measurement and analytical systems. All is is ISO9001 approved and we have qualified vendors . I'm just asking to make a step forward... You know... Execute I can share my knowledge.


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May 17, 2020
Terre Haute, Indiana
I'm just asking out of curiocity because I work as a Marketing Director in Oil and Gas, as EPC contractor. We integrate measurement and analytical systems. All is is ISO9001 approved and we have qualified vendors . I'm just asking to make a step forward... You know... Execute I can share my knowledge.
Thanks for asking. In summary, Reach Technologies provides services to supply chains from both sides.
For purchasers we help in some of the following ways:
  • Ability to find suppliers outside of their Vendor lists.
  • Find suppliers who have the necessary compliance requirements (NADCAP, ISO9001, ISO 13485, AS9100, etc.)
  • Suppliers who have the appropriate capabilities that matches purchaser needs (type of work/equipment). If a suppliers needs specific processing such as laser machining, welding, turning/CNC svcs, etc.
  • Select quotes based on supplier historical performance on Material Review, Rework/Scrap (losses), and On-Time Delivery. All based on supplier interactions with purchasers via Reach Technologies application.
For our suppliers/vendors:
  • Help them find new customers that matches their skillset
  • Help them understand how they are performing based on purchaser feedback.
  • Quality Engineering Tools to help them understand their process and improve. Guidance on PFMEA, Statistical tools (Gage R&R, Process validation, DOE), Error Proofing, etc.
  • How to enter new markets (aerospace, automotive, medical device mfg)
  • (Coming soon) tools/assistance on helping the supplier enter new markets.
  • (Coming soon) Internal Auditing support
Our goal at Reach Technologies is to open the doors for purchasers and suppliers alike to build new relationships through transparency and trust. Its not about just having a certification, but how your business can execute on deliverables which determines their performance. Just because the quote is low, does not mean it is cheaper in the end (scrap/rework, material review, missed delivery). Purchasers are locked into long term agreements with suppliers that do not fulfill on their end with lower cost and promise to deliver quality products consistently. Not only does this damage the supplier's reputation with their customer, but the customer's reputation with their customers. We aim to leverage the global supply chain so we all can make better products on time and at a lower cost. We want to give purchasers the ability to not just make a decision on quote price, but on performance before they draft their purchase orders.

I am pushing to launch our SaaS application in a August/September as I am currently the only software developer on the project. My timeline is subject to change as there are continuous modifications being made to fit customer's needs. My experience is over 15yrs in Quality/Supplier Quality and Manufacturing Operations with 2 of the top 100 in Forbes 500 list. One for an Aerospace Manufacturer and the other in Medical devices. I moved to develop my own software to serve our manufacturing community.

If you, or know anyone who would like to join beta testing, or provide feedback on what you would like to see in an application such as this, that would be great! We would love to work with you. Please feel free to contact me via email: I am always looking for outside feedback on how we can make our service fit your needs. I will soon need purchasers and vendors to populate the database, and I will be offering this for free for a few months to a group of early adopters when we launch. Reach out to me and we would love to add you to the list of early adopters!

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