Opinion: Skipping college is not going to make you fastlane

[Sethamus]

If CO schools were that price the discussion would be different. They are not, and for many/most that is not the price of college in the US today.

Is this Colorado? Tuition is not far off on many of these between the states. The only thing that really changes is cost of living for the area you are in. That could vary greatly and has to do with what someone is willing to deal with and which specific college someone chooses.
Example: US College 2020 Tuition & Costs By State

 

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[quanttastic]

Another thing to consider is that many universities - especially higher ranked ones - have 'accelerators' or other things that create access to capital for current students with entrepreneurial ideas. These are typically funded by engaged alumni that are vested in the success of the current students. Not enough students know about these/take advantage of them.

 

[Nigel B]

The government absorbing all of the student loans is what made this expensive. They will lend to anyone, for any major, irrespective of the ability to pay it back.

This is sooooo true! In a free market, the likely ability of the borrower to pass the course and indeed enter the field (thereby able to repay the loan) would all be factored into the lending decision. One of many easy steps which would apply a band-aid to a broken system.

The cry will go up that this is "not fair" because Johnny should be allowed to pursue his dream regardless ofit's viability - he can, and he should (if he is prepared to put hard work behind his passion) - the taxpayer should not foot the bill or the risk.

 

[Nigel B]

Is this Colorado? Tuition is not far off on many of these between the states. The only thing that really changes is cost of living for the area you are in. That could vary greatly and has to do with what someone is willing to deal with and which specific college someone chooses.
Example: US College 2020 Tuition & Costs By State

Yeah, sorry that article is about a useful as a chocolate fireguard. Take CO with a very low average number, and then drill to the 122 colleges included (Colorado Colleges 2020 Tuition) you will find Beauty Schools, Massage Schools, "Healing Arts" schools (seriously). Then there are the schools that most people think of as Universities DU, CU, Mines, CSU - you'll find them easily - they are the ones with which are 3-4 times the price of the others. Yes there are some affordable schools, and indeed Mines has one of the best career ROI's in the industry (which US University most certainly is these days). But not close to the reported average, and not close to your numbers.

Don't get me wrong - many of those schools are exactly what I was talking about, career focused education producing diplomas, which can underpin a successful career. They are just not delivering a 4 year degree which is what I thought we were talking about here.

 

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[socaldude]

I personally graduated from college.

The idea that you won’t be successful without getting that special piece of paper is exactly the paradigm academia wants you to believe. It’s also full of assumptions and biases.

The idea that you need academia to manipulate your mind for you is contrary to Fastlane ideas imo. I can’t manipulate and mold my own mind? I need someone to hold my hand for me and wipe my a$$ while their at it?

In Des Kapital by Karl Marx. Marx says the government needs to save people’s minds, a precious capital resource from the ruling class. Isn’t this a similar model by academia? You will fail if you don’t let us teach you.

Most people at 18 simply don’t have the discipline, knowledge or ambition to start a high revenue business. But it doesn’t mean it can’t be you. The plan is not to be normal anyways.

For years, academia has gotten away with promoting itself as some kind of ally of the US economy. Meanwhile the US economy quickly changes. They will go as far as to lie and still say college is worth millions in wages. Anything to get more money thrown at them. Huge problems with this model.

 

[Sethamus]

3k in tuition for a whole year isn't going to make a huge difference. The main thing is cost of living like I said.

A good local state college isn't really that expensive. $~11k in tuition and besides basic living expenses and some classroom supplies it can be paid for while working. A lot harder without any support, but doable.

Then there are the schools that most people think of as Universities DU, CU, Mines, CSU - you'll find them easily - they are the ones with which are 3-4 times the price of the others

Engineering degree cost for CU

Costs for Undergraduate Students

Welcome!

www.colorado.edu

Tuition is stated at 14k compared to the 11k I generalized. They are saying an additional 15k for campus living and meals which is not always the best option.

Edit; someone living more local to these universities are able to take the most advantage and can get a degree relatively cheap.

 

[fastlanedoll]

Man, that doesn't sound bad at all.
How do people manage to get stuck with the loan for 30 years?
Is it interest?

 

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[Sethamus]

Man, that doesn't sound bad at all.
How do people manage to get stuck with the loan for 30 years?
Is it interest?

I think people also take out loans for living expenses. 10 to $20,000 extra a year on top of tuition adds up quick. There is no regulation that I am aware, at least enforcement, on what the loans are used for. I have heard of people using it for furniture and to decorate their college dorms.....

Oh and I lied earlier! My close friends didn't have debt but I was close with someone who did, my wife! We were dating at the time and right before graduation I brought up the money talk as we were getting serious and I was going to follow her back home as my job allowed me to be flexible. She had 45k in debt! Her mom got loans that accrued interest since day one and she got 2 degrees over 6 years.

Let's just say we made a "deal" and 35k was paid the first year of employment by her. After we got married we paid off the final 10k right away.

 

[fastlanedoll]

Oh man..uh.. I guess I just can't really relate... cos I've never been in debt (or close to it).
If I was going to go into that much debt for college (anything that takes more than 5 years to pay off with the job you expect to get is a little much, I feel)... yea, I would personally have second thoughts too.
Debt messes with your brain and confidence as well, and it messes up your potential to thrive, cos you're in 'survival' mode instead of 'thrive' mode, if that makes sense.

I guess I'm really blessed to have found MJ books and having been born into a upper middle class family.
I wish those books were around when I was in high school. I could have started the journey earlier, but it is what it is.

And my career isn't 'going as well' or have been as smooth as people in this thread seemed to believe.
I believe I've mentioned before on the forum that I'm hoping to eventually completely move away from clinical medicine and contributing to medicine through online venues instead.

And it's because of the.. uh 'culture' of medicine I don't like here.
School could never ever have prepared me for this. You just don't see the down and dirty side of having the job when you're in school, and no-one ever warns you either, so I guess you can find yourself in a less-than-ideal situation, but you've ALREADY invested the time into it, so that's gone.
I've also mentioned that I want to be the voice who warns people, but I don't feel I can safely do this until I'm fully 'established' and I truly don't need the job anymore.

Sorry I kind of went off tangent, but the point I'm trying to make is, that I'm not as pro-college as I seemed.
But I also don't think this yes/no mentality to college is wise.
Like I said, the real answer is much, much more complicated than that.

 

[5holiday]

Graduate Jobs That Will Make You a Millionaire by 30 - Crimson Education 睿深教育官网

While it helps, this isn't to say you can't become a billionaire if you're not an Ivy graduate, I mean there are five other schools on the list too.

www.crimsoneducation.org

What it Takes to Become a Millionaire - ppt download

Americans are Obsessed with Millionaires… Do an Amazon Search on books with “Millionaire” in their title: over 1,370 books… TV Shows - Survivor winner $1 million “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire” “Joe Millionaire” “Deal or No Deal” Lottery How hard is it to become a millionaire?

slideplayer.com

Correlation doesn't equal causation but whatever.

Everyone is free to take your chances without a degree. At the end of the day, we're always the special ones that are the exceptions.

 

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[TheGreek]

College is included in the script mindset most of the time. People go to college because of peer pressure, parent pressure, and the expectations of others for them. They just follow a path that everyone else follows because they are afraid of doing anything different. They have accepted the fact that they will go to college from a young age, so they make plans about it and feels like their own decision.

They say that they have a dream job or a career goal but it is created from other people's expectations as well. In many cases, they try to impress someone else that wants them to take this path. If you don't care about what your parents, society, and friends will say, the chances to go to college are limited because there are better things to do at that age.

It's more comfortable to go to college than fighting your family or explaining to your friends something that does not make sense to them.

I would prefer to find a job for money, buy things, and meet girls than going into debt, stress, and studying... Yes, I know that you can meet girls in college but it is not the same. This is what I did. I quit college many years ago and started earning money. I guess it is different in the USA but it worked well for me.

When it comes to business, college does not change anything. I don't believe that college gives you any tools unless you build a business in niches that require a college degree for specific tasks.

“Run from what’s comfortable. Forget safety. Live where you fear to live. Destroy your reputation. Be notorious. I have tried prudent planning long enough. From now on I’ll be mad.” (Rumi)

 

[socaldude]

There’s two types of minds in this world.

There are the minds that are “taught” all of their knowledge and insights.

Then there are the minds that literally “create” new knowledge and insights.

To be a success you need to be the second. Society and academia tricks you into the first and that the second doesn’t exist.

But don’t fall for the trap that you think you are “creating” new knowledge when in fact you are just recycling the shit you were taught.

If you figure this out it will literally change your life.

 

[fridge]

Whether going to college is a good idea depends person to person. I personally don't regret going to college (I have a decent job with just an associates, but I work in the tech field). In my opinion, if you don't have mommy & daddy to fall back on, entrepreneurship right out of High School is going to be *nearly* impossible to support yourself solely on, and a small amount (preferably 2 year associates) of college can actually be beneficial to developing the importance of life long learning. I just wish I had started on a business WHILE in college.

 

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[socaldude]

What academia has essentially done is mastered the confirmation bias.

They take a 10-20 year period where the college degree did work then repeat that evidence over and over and ignoring all other evidence that far out weighs it.

Anybody that understands economics knows its not static. Resources get re allocated and money gets redirected.

These institutions are essentially addicted to money like drug addicts. And are lying and manipulating their way to get it.

I know that maybe most people think "it depends" after some serious thought i think the heuristics strongly suggest not to go to college. Just my two pennies.

 

[JByers210]

Dropped out my first semester a few years ago. Went all in.

Starting to hit five figures a month at 21.

No debt and I was/am young enough to go through all the trial and error without a family or other responsibilities.

If I had to do it all over again... would drop out quicker.

Edit: For anyone that's deciding about college...the best advice I read on the forum was a quote from KAK I came across... if you don't believe in your decision... how can you expect anyone else to? Once I committed it didn't matter what anyone thought.

 

[Dopemary guy]

Over the last 6 months I have read a lot of comments condemning college and associating it with the slow lane mentality. Why is this?

I understand the hate for college debt and the increasing cost of education. Is it the systems fault though for these kids to take out huge loans on shitty degrees with no future planned or their own fault with maybe some help from their parents?

My education helped put me where I am today and without it I probably wouldn't be where I am or even the fast lane mindset. I learned responsibility without the high cost of losing a business, effective communication, general problem solving, and countless more. I partied with the best of them, and actually learned early that alcohol and calculus doesn't mix well Monday- Thursday lol. However I had a plan and intentionally chose engineering for the career options and typically higher income. I chose the petroleum industry, specifically field based, so I could earn much more and work less days than a typical 9-5 job. Some of this was probably my upbringing and my parents do earn a lot of credit in this, but they are 100% slow lane and that is fine. I surely do not hate them for this and seeing their missed opportunities for businesses that they backed out on set a fire under me to be different.

For the "seasoned " members of this forum. What is your advice for all of the young new entrepreneurs joining the forum?

 

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[Dopemary guy]

Started state college in 1993 after taking a year off after high school. I worked at target during that time. I also noticed that the people who really ran the store weren’t in upper management, no matter how talented they were, no matter how long they’ve been there, no matter that they actually made the place run, they could never get an upper management because they didn’t have a four year degree. That made me go hmmm.

I was at home at the time and tuition was only about $500 a semester. For the first few years my grandmother paid my tuition until a professor informed me that with my GPA I could be going to school for free which I did for the remainder. I went part time so there was no burn out. My major was business management, I knew that from the beginning. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life but I figured the world ran on business so why not learn speak the language. Also, I really like studying business as I had started taking business classes in high school. My thoughts were that every organization needed to be ran.

While I was in school I tailored my business classes towards entrepreneurship and even started a really successful business out of my grandmothers basement in 1996. I read Internet for dummies and then build a website for my business as one of my school projects. I graduated cum laude with a 3.67 GPA. I was obsessed with my GPA not because I thought it would get me a good job but because if I didn’t get an a in a class I felt like I didn’t get everything out of it that I could.

Going to college and getting a four year degree was probably the single best decision I’ve ever made in my life.

 

[AFMKelvin]

View attachment 34457

Graduate Jobs That Will Make You a Millionaire by 30 - Crimson Education 睿深教育官网

While it helps, this isn't to say you can't become a billionaire if you're not an Ivy graduate, I mean there are five other schools on the list too.

www.crimsoneducation.org

View attachment 34458

What it Takes to Become a Millionaire - ppt download

Americans are Obsessed with Millionaires… Do an Amazon Search on books with “Millionaire” in their title: over 1,370 books… TV Shows - Survivor winner $1 million “Who Wants to Be a Millionaire” “Joe Millionaire” “Deal or No Deal” Lottery How hard is it to become a millionaire?

slideplayer.com

View attachment 34461

View attachment 34462

Correlation doesn't equal causation but whatever.

Everyone is free to take your chances without a degree. At the end of the day, we're always the special ones that are the exceptions.

Every single graph you posted has been picked apart on this forum before.

For example The Millionaire Next Door is a book about old people that have been saving and penny pinching all their lives. They have a million dollars but are not millionaires. Adjusted for inflation you need $5 Million to be considered a millionaire today.

Also you posted "At the end of the day, we're always the special ones that are the exceptions." All I can do is laugh at this statement.

 

[5holiday]

Also you posted "At the end of the day, we're always the special ones that are the exceptions." All I can do is laugh at this statement.

I'm glad you got the joke...

I suppose this is just more stuff for the forum to have already picked apart before.

Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60. Find Yours. (Published 2017)

A new study, based on millions of anonymous tax records, shows that colleges are even more economically segregated than previously understood.

www.nytimes.com

Apparently: The Scary Smart Are The Scary Rich: Examining Tech's Richest On The Forbes 400

Despite the myth of the billionaire college dropout, most wealthy Americans have a degree

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard and became billionaires—but very few dropouts are so lucky.

qz.com

I digress.

Like others have said, it's not required to get a college education to succeed. Depends on the person - it's complex, and going 'just because it's the script' is probably a bad idea.

However, the odds seem to be more likely better if you go.

If not teaching you hard skills, you are probably better placed learning the soft skills too. Things like: critical thinking, using evidence in arguments, getting used to having people disagree with your essays and work without getting upset, sticking at something difficult for 4 years.

Also will likely open up more opportunities for you, though admittedly not in this economy. Most jobs require a bachelors degree to apply, you might be ruling yourself out of a position that trains you from the inside about your next fast lane business idea.

Great points about not graduating with a tonne of debt.

Yeah some folks make it with 'inspiration and personal belief only'. By why not supplement the magical life of grinding with improving your chances, skills and opportunities.

 

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[Tom H.]

Maybe college makes sense for some people I don't know. I have to echo what @socaldude said, modern academia is essentially an indoctrination camp.

I always struggled in elementary/high school, yet everyone told me to go to college anyway, because I'm smart, I have really high test scores, etc. Of course, I struggled in college too. My experience was that school trains you to be compliant and your level of compliance is the #1 thing you get judged on. I'm too smart for that b.s. and I hope that most other people wise up to it too.

If you're an average person, maybe there is some benefit to going to college, but how could it possibly be fastlane? What is fast about spending four years jumping through hoops, learning at someone else's pace, just so you can get the outside validation of dubious accreditation, so you can ask for permission to get a job?

If your goal is to be a professional mathematician, physicist, computer scientist or other hardcore academic, then fine, find a good college that isn't swamped with degeneracy and pursue your career, I have no argument against paths like that, there's a lot of PhDs in hard sciences that deserve respect... but that is definitely not a fastlane path.

Edit: isn't swamped*

 

[AFMKelvin]

Maybe college makes sense for some people I don't know. I have to echo what @socaldude said, modern academia is essentially an indoctrination camp.

I always struggled in elementary/high school, yet everyone told me to go to college anyway, because I'm smart, I have really high test scores, etc. Of course, I struggled in college too. My experience was that school trains you to be compliant and your level of compliance is the #1 thing you get judged on. I'm too smart for that b.s. and I hope that most other people wise up to it too.

If you're an average person, maybe there is some benefit to going to college, but how could it possibly be fastlane? What is fast about spending four years jumping through hoops, learning at someone else's pace, just so you can get the outside validation of dubious accreditation, so you can ask for permission to get a job?

If your goal is to be a professional mathematician, physicist, computer scientist or other hardcore academic, then fine, find a good college that is swamped with degeneracy and pursue your career, I have not argument against paths like that, there's a lot of PhDs in hard sciences that deserve respect... but that is definitely not a fastlane path.

Like another member here said they need college to feel "special." They need the social approval, the piece of paper that says they attended college and the graduation ceremonies. College has become a social rite of passage of sorts for people. That rite of passage used to be the military at one point now it's college. If they don't go through the college ritual that tells them how special and unique they are they're not satisfied. I've notice that college graduates are always the first to bring up that they went to college in real life and on this forum. They're the first ones to say how smart they are for going to college. They're like vegans. Don't ask them if they went to college they'll tell you. What makes it funnier is that on this forum is pointless to flash anything accreditation if you're not a millionaire. The only thing worth flashing here is your bank account. Everything else and you're on even ground with the rest of the slowlaners.

 

[socaldude]

Haha I can come back to this thread all day and come up with new ways of looking at this.

Look at the interests of the participants in this decision problem:

1. Academia
2. Banks
3. You

What does academia want? In short they basically want a monopoly on knowledge. And obviously grow more.

What do banks want? Well they wanna loan money out and charge interest on the loan. Even better if it’s collateralized.

Now think about it. Why do they still push academia even though the evidence is overwhelmingly indicative of a massive combo of deflation and inflation? Uh maybe because these institutions all have a hidden incentive?

there is way too many powerful interests in this game nobody will ever come out and say the truth.

 

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[WabiSabi]

I think alot of the graphic applies to college back in the day, or ivy leagues. In 2020 There's way too much ideological BS to put up with. They aren't centers of free thinking or discussion for anything that doesn't fit the narrative.

If your gonna go slow-lane learn a trade. Heck, you can even turn it fastlane once you figure out your employers are screwing you.

I think we're beating a dead horse at this point, it all depends on the person and their circumstances.

 

[Burton]

I don't get it why threads like this one get any attention. Simply because you have a detailed answer to your question in MJ's books. And as I see you have read at least Unscripted so I suppose you learnt a lot in college except reading comprehension.

Are you already fastlane? If yes then provide value on the forum by sharing your journey and knowledge. Otherwise, work your a$$ off to achieve it instead of creating distraction threads.

Let me write about three of my friends (each of them is already a multi-millionaire) to show you that you will not get a single answer:
- the first one has a successful real estate and transportation companies. He says he couldn't make it without a college.

- the second one has a software company with tens of thousands of customers. He told me he went to college because he didn't know what he wants to do in life. He ended up doing something totally different than what he was learning about in college.

- the last one is running a company where he produces concrete. He told me he's happy because of not going to college, despite his parent's plans for him (they wanted him to be a lawyer as I know).

Now, let's say I need concrete to build something. Do you think I will go to one of my friends and start a conversation with questions like "Wait a minute, do you have a degree?", "Does your driver who will deliver me concrete has a degree?", "Do all of your employees who produce concrete in your company have a degree?". I simply don't give a f*ck as long as I'm satisfied with his service. If I'm not I want my money back, or I will sue him or beat his a$$ up if I have to.

To sum up, make yourself financially free and earn as much money as you want with or without a degree. Then come to the forum and tell us how it was.

Cheers.

 

[Gravy South]

The answer totally depends on each person and their personal background. There is no right or wrong answer unlike some people try to talk down on others in this thread!

Many Millionaires come in different backgrounds, there are many ways to reach the path of success. Not going to college DOES NOT guarantee fast lane whatsoever

The fact is there are so many unprepared teenagers/young adults on this forum who hate school/college or terrible in education would read the book/forum and decide to skip School/college and proclaim themselves to be an “entrepreneur”, with no business idea/plan whatsoever.

I would argue that going to college is much better than dreaming to be a millionaire and procrastinating. At least you will be learning some soft skills, network with your peers and get to have the best time of your life. You can always start a business while at college if you already have the fast lane mentality .

My point is doing something is better than nothing. Dreaming to be a fast lane millionaire will get you nowhere , doing the actual work does.

For those who judge me, I have a college degree, under 30 years old and I am a multi-millionaire with a fast lane business. I can’t thank MJ enough for opening my eyes regarding fast lane.

 

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[Antifragile]

@Kelvin Fernandez It’s been a year, are you a millionaire fastlane yet?
@Sethamus I’m sure you could say “not going to college will not make you fastlane either”, just to stop the wallet (manhood!) measuring.


@Kak
im late to this party, but finished your episode and you did a fantastic job. Seriously enjoyed it, 10/10!
I had both undergrad in business and post secondary education. Took me a little while to learn one simple truth: formal education will make you a good living, self education will make you a fortune.

Fun thread to read!

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

I give not one single F*ck what you do with your life. College or not, reap the consequences.

BUT IMO: If you don't start a business before you graduate, you were never going to. Ever.