No adwords for affiliate sites?!?!

[Jill]

So this is news to me! I have an affiliate site (clickbank ebooks) that has great conversion when people can actually find it. So, I decided to use an adwords coupon to A/B test some paid traffic. As it turns out, Google refused to approve the account because it was an affiliate site. Seriously?!

This is the first time I've ever hear of this. Is there any way around it?

 

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[puckman]

thanks Jill, this is news to me. Did the Disapproval actually say it was because its an Affiliate site? If this were the case, Wayfair would be out of business. If you can screen cap the disapproval msg I can check it out.

 

[Jill]

No. Unfortunately, it was a phone call. I clicked a link for a free adwords account (for a $75 coupon), and received an email message that said, "Thank you for your interest in Google AdWords. We apologize for the inconvenience, but we need to ask you a few questions before we issue you your $75 coupon. Please call us at 1-877-908-4185** Monday through Friday between 9am and 9pm ET."

So, since I'm a rule-follower, I called. The gal who answered the phone said, "One moment while I take a look at your site..." After 30 seconds, she comes back and says, "When I clicked on one of your links, it took me to another site. Therefore, we can't approve this account."

"So," I say, "You're telling me that I cannot have an adwords account on an affiliate site?"

"Yes, that right. We can't control if you use some 3rd party sites to market it. But we can't approve this."

"So," I say, "You're telling me that if I candidly tell you that I want to promote this site for A/B testing, I cannot. But if I choose a more subversive way of promoting it, that's okay?"

Silence.

 

[puckman]

yeah, fortunately Google employs machine learning for most of its decision making. I know from experience when they give out those cards its usually to traditional small business(marys flower shop, bob truck shocks, etc), or they give them to ad agencies. You may want to set up an MCC - multi client account, and set up a dummy campaign for another business, then start a new campaign for your site. I think they just proved you can get straight A's at an Ivy League school, but have not a lick of common internet business sense whatsoever!

 

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[JDIII2007]

Hi Jill,

Unfortunately, the information you are hearing is correct. Google Adwords does not like affiliate marketing regardless of what they may say. They cancelled over 50,000 accounts of affiliate marketers a couple of years ago. Even if you are fortunate enough not to have your account cancelled or have the ad disapproved, you would still have a good chance of seeing them lower the quality score making it almost impossible to compete as your bids would skyrocket. Google has turned its back on the business on the business that helped establish google.

Lead generation businesses also appear to deal with the low quality score issue on Google. There is an interview about one over on Mixergy that talks about how they had to buy their way out of the quality score issue over time. Basically, Google favors small businesses over affiliate marketers as they do not view them as a business.

So what should you do? You should consider going with Microsoft Adcenter. They get about a 1/3rd of the traffic but at least you can do affiliate marketing. I also would look into facebook ads or banner advertising. One clever way you can get cheaper prices from banner ads is through contacting Adsense websites in your niche and have them put up your banner instead of their adsense by you paying slightly more than what they get in Adsense. This way you can get a little revenge on Google and create another advertising source.

 

[kwerner]

PM'ing you Jill.

 

[AffPlaybook]

I do affiliate marketing on AdWords. It's not as easy as it used to be, but can still be done.

They generally frown on Clickbank products, but much of it depends on the sales page. Is it a thin squeeze page?

Promoting physical products is perfectly ok in my experience. CPA/Lead Generation offers are a bit more iffy. You still see them promoted, but it's not something I would feel comfortable running.

 

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[Fisherman]

Hi Jill,

Unfortunately, the information you are hearing is correct. Google Adwords does not like affiliate marketing regardless of what they may say. They cancelled over 50,000 accounts of affiliate marketers a couple of years ago. Even if you are fortunate enough not to have your account cancelled or have the ad disapproved, you would still have a good chance of seeing them lower the quality score making it almost impossible to compete as your bids would skyrocket. Google has turned its back on the business on the business that helped establish google.

Lead generation businesses also appear to deal with the low quality score issue on Google. There is an interview about one over on Mixergy that talks about how they had to buy their way out of the quality score issue over time. Basically, Google favors small businesses over affiliate marketers as they do not view them as a business.

So what should you do? You should consider going with Microsoft Adcenter. They get about a 1/3rd of the traffic but at least you can do affiliate marketing. I also would look into facebook ads or banner advertising. One clever way you can get cheaper prices from banner ads is through contacting Adsense websites in your niche and have them put up your banner instead of their adsense by you paying slightly more than what they get in Adsense. This way you can get a little revenge on Google and create another advertising source.

Do not depend on google if you are affiliate.. I have been doing good with solo ads..

 

[JDIII2007]

I do affiliate marketing on AdWords. It's not as easy as it used to be, but can still be done.

They generally frown on Clickbank products, but much of it depends on the sales page. Is it a thin squeeze page?

Promoting physical products is perfectly ok in my experience. CPA/Lead Generation offers are a bit more iffy. You still see them promoted, but it's not something I would feel comfortable running.

LOL, you are playing with fire. There have been thousands of affiliates that thought the exact same thing as you only to wake up one morning to see their accounts shut down. In fact, the best advice I can give you is to create a second Google adwords account immediately to protect yourself. This too may be short lived but at least it may give you a little cushion for a while. Make no mistake about it, your account is a Dead Man Walking.

The fact that Adwords is using so many subjective terms to apply their standards like "thin Squeeze page or affiliate site" and have a variance depending on the type of product or service is a pretty big sign of the challenges with Adwords. It would be better advice for people new to PPC to look elsewhere where the rules are far more forgiving like Adcenter or Facebook.

 

[JDIII2007]

Do not depend on google if you are affiliate.. I have been doing good with solo ads..

I am curious what you mean by solo ads? Are you talking about banner ads or something else like sponsored blog posts? Or are you talking about where someone emails their list about your offer?

 

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[AffPlaybook]

LOL, you are playing with fire. There have been thousands of affiliates that thought the exact same thing as you only to wake up one morning to see their accounts shut down. In fact, the best advice I can give you is to create a second Google adwords account immediately to protect yourself. This too may be short lived but at least it may give you a little cushion for a while. Make no mistake about it, your account is a Dead Man Walking.

The fact that Adwords is using so many subjective terms to apply their standards like "thin Squeeze page or affiliate site" and have a variance depending on the type of product or service is a pretty big sign of the challenges with Adwords. It would be better advice for people new to PPC to look elsewhere where the rules are far more forgiving like Adcenter or Facebook.

Based on what I've seen and experienced, I feel pretty safe with what I'm running. Sure, it's AdWords and they can and will do anything they want but I've been doing this for years with not so much as a denied ad.

LOL @ FB and adCenter being easier. adCenter is shutting people down left and right, and their standards are far less clear. Facebook also hates affiliates. Most, if not all affiliates I know doing large number on Facebook have about 20-30 accounts going at all times because of the rate they get shut down.

 

[JDIII2007]

LOL @ FB and adCenter being easier. adCenter is shutting people down left and right, and their standards are far less clear. Facebook also hates affiliates. Most, if not all affiliates I know doing large number on Facebook have about 20-30 accounts going at all times because of the rate they get shut down.

Perhaps you can point to some articles that suggest these large numbers because most of the folks I know have had a much easier time dealing with these companies than Adwords. My own personal experience is that Adcenter is definitely easier and I have never even had a single issue there myself. I have yet to run Facebook ads but it is worth noting that many of the affiliates that left Adwords went straight to Facebook. If Facebook were really that troublesome, it would have been well known in IM circles by now. I have heard of some ads being declined and similar smaller stuff but nothing that even comes close to half the problems affiliates have had with Adwords.

That being said, I think it is great that you have avoided the Inquisition so far on Adwords but if I were you I would be diversifying now so you are better protected when the guillotine does come.

 

[AffPlaybook]

Perhaps you can point to some articles that suggest these large numbers because most of the folks I know have had a much easier time dealing with these companies than Adwords. My own personal experience is that Adcenter is definitely easier and I have never even had a single issue there myself. I have yet to run Facebook ads but it is worth noting that many of the affiliates that left Adwords went straight to Facebook. If Facebook were really that troublesome, it would have been well known in IM circles by now. I have heard of some ads being declined and similar smaller stuff but nothing that even comes close to half the problems affiliates have had with Adwords.

That being said, I think it is great that you have avoided the Inquisition so far on Adwords but if I were you I would be diversifying now so you are better protected when the guillotine does come.

I don't have any articles off the top of my head..this is just from my own experience as well as just being in the affiliate industry. FB and adCenter are definitely easier to get new accounts on than Google, but unfortunately they are becoming just as anti-affiliate.

FB is very troublesome...what IM circles are you hanging out in? Affiliates have a really tough time with FB.

 

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[TheTruth]

Alright, even though I have an exam in about 8 hours I will go ahead and put in my 2 cents

Adwords will ban you like there is no tomorrow if they suspect that anything is shady (period). Honestly Google has caught on and they are under real threat from Facebook and Twitter.

Google recently obliterated blog networks and I know people who lost their Income ... some of these people have kids and families to support.

At the end of the day, Google is a business and they have to look out for themselves first. Google does not care if they make some adsense money from you or that you pay them to have adwords campaigns.

Google's #1 Priority to is give their customer the most relevant and highest value data on earth for whatever they are searching for. Therefore, crummy affiliate promotions or sites made solely to bank of adsense are doomed.


Now, as for adcentre... it was much easier to get away with affiliate squeeze pages etc etc about 1 year ago. Today, not so much. They are fully copying adwords with regards to guidelines now. BUT think about it, it is in the best interest for their business to do so!

You would do the same if you were in their position, if you wanted to stick around for the long-term as a sustainable business.


Know Facebook is stricter than ever because they are trying everything they can to please investors over their IPO. Since the Facebook timeline change, they are cracking down on affiliates and crummy pages like there is no tomorrow. They have introduced so many rules you have to follow etc etc.

But again, they do it to protect their business and want to offer the most value.

Bottom line is: If you want a sustainable business you have to retain control over it. When you depend on Google or Facebook etc. etc. you are always at the risk of them deciding one day that they do not like you and obliterating your income.

Create a business that does not depend on Google or Facebook and you will never have to deal with these problems ever again.

 

[JDIII2007]

Create a business that does not depend on Google or Facebook and you will never have to deal with these problems ever again.

That sounds good in theory but most businesses have to rely on Google due to SEO. Then, businesses must decide what they will use on paid traffic which naturally leads people to Adwords and Facebook.

What ways can you build a business without their use? Let's remove the theory what specifically would you suggest?

Email marketing is probably the strongest out there but not many businesses can use this style. Could a lead gen business use this style? I don't think so.

The other way I know that could make you independent of Google is that if you could build a brand so people search for you by name rather than do a keyword search. That could certainly work but that costs a lot of money and time to get to that level and you would have to find another way to do it beyond Adwords and Facebook. That would mean what? banner ads, direct marketing mailings and fliers? maybe old school radio/tv/ advertising?

So to recap, my question to you is how would you promote a lead generation business without relying on Google or Facebook?

 

[puckman]

So to recap, my question to you is how would you promote a lead generation business without relying on Google or Facebook?

Use TV, Radio, Newspaper, Magazines, Billboards, leaflets, direct mail, word of mouth, referrals, affiliates, promotional partners, etc etc. Many of which have higher response rates than Google, certainly higher than Facebook which has the rock bottom ad performance of any medium in history. think of it this way, online advertising accounts for 15% of total ad spend. That means there are 85% other options left to advertise with, that the marketplace has picked works better than online.

 

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[JDIII2007]

Use TV, Radio, Newspaper, Magazines, Billboards, leaflets, direct mail, word of mouth, referrals, affiliates, promotional partners, etc etc. Many of which have higher response rates than Google, certainly higher than Facebook which has the rock bottom ad performance of any medium in history. think of it this way, online advertising accounts for 15% of total ad spend. That means there are 85% other options left to advertise with, that the marketplace has picked works better than online.

Print media is on the decline. Online ad spending has actually surpassed it already. http://mashable.com/2012/01/19/online-advertising-surpasses-print-2012/
It is true that TV advertising is growing but that is probably the most expensive advertising out there. Word of mouth and referrals would be available regardless what you did assuming you did it well. About the only ones that really are obtainable would be affiliates and promotional partners. The affiliates would only become valuable after you can show that it is worth it for affiliates to join your program. This means it would take a couple of years to get to that point and would have to use Google and the other methods to get their. The joint venture option is an interesting one but not sure how that would work with lead generation businesses. Since you would not be building a list, you couldn't do solo ads. You could maybe partner with another complimentary company in the industry like how the limo companies partner with tuxedo companies. Of course, i would think these would only work best after you had a few years of success and were deemed partner worthy. Unlike IM, there would not be a big launch where the money could be earned back quickly.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

Print media is on the decline. Online ad spending has actually surpassed it already.

Yeah, but it's really not on a decline. If you look at the second bar graph, it shows that while newspaper ads are decreasing slowly, magazine ads are holding steady.

 

[JDIII2007]

Yeah, but it's really not on a decline. If you look at the second bar graph, it shows that while newspaper ads are decreasing slowly, magazine ads are holding steady.

Maybe not a great decline yet but this is what the article specifically said:

"The forecast for print is foreboding. Marketers are expected to continue cutting their print advertising budgets for the next half-decade, spending $32.3 billion in 2016, 10% less than what they invested in print ads in 2011."

Mind you, I am not saying don't use print media. Like you said, it could still be a good method for the near future.

 

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[AffPlaybook]

That sounds good in theory but most businesses have to rely on Google due to SEO. Then, businesses must decide what they will use on paid traffic which naturally leads people to Adwords and Facebook.

What ways can you build a business without their use? Let's remove the theory what specifically would you suggest?

Email marketing is probably the strongest out there but not many businesses can use this style. Could a lead gen business use this style? I don't think so.

The other way I know that could make you independent of Google is that if you could build a brand so people search for you by name rather than do a keyword search. That could certainly work but that costs a lot of money and time to get to that level and you would have to find another way to do it beyond Adwords and Facebook. That would mean what? banner ads, direct marketing mailings and fliers? maybe old school radio/tv/ advertising?

So to recap, my question to you is how would you promote a lead generation business without relying on Google or Facebook?

That's a good question. You can buy media from numerous places really. Everything from self serve ad networks/exchanges like adbuyer to full on media buys. That's paid traffic of course..

With SEO, yeah you're kinda stuck. The best results I've seen on Google (that last) are good quality, long term link building. Forget all the 'backlink services'..those have been especially hard hit lately. Focus on getting real links..it's boring, and time consuming but it does work. Sites I've done that on have survived numerous Google changes.

 

[Jill]

Therefore, crummy affiliate promotions or sites made solely to bank of adsense are doomed.

I understand and appreciate this. But not all affiliate promoting sites are crummy. I happen to think that mine are full of useful information. I personally wrote all 22 of the articles on the site, after extensive research, then read and personally reviewed all the affiliate products that are listed there. It isn't just a "splash" or sales page. So while I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that all affiliate sites are crummy, I guess I'm just being a little sensitive! Never mind. It's just frustrating. I'll get traffic there in other ways. Thx for the input and insight.

 

[kwerner]

Here's an example of a pretty crummy (in my opinion) affiliate site, however, it's ranked #1 on Google for Web Hosting Reviews, which gets over 12,000 searches a month.

webhostingreviews.com

 

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[TheTruth]

Hey Jill,


First off, my sincere apologies for taking this long to respond, I was down to the final stretch of exams and I isolated myself to finally get my finals done and graduate.

Second, When I wrote my first post It was late and I really did rush it, so naturally (and now looking back at it), it did leave a lot of loop holes and unanswered questions.

I want to clarify that of course I was not implying your site was shitty, rather the goal of my post was just to generally spread word of how Google is really changing it's operations drastically. Sorry if it came of that way


Not only that but the whole industry is taking on rapid changes. I know guy's who are super ticked with recent changes and updates.


Some suggestions I would make as of right now are:

1. Buy banner ads on popular niche sites that gain a lot of traffic. These leads are super targeted and they will trust you more because they trust the site they came from.

2. If you do want to use adwords, don't talk to google employees.

-> Actually I have a question regarding your landing page: does it link to your blog (that has the 22 articles)?

If yes, then you should have your landing page one of your blog posts (or your home page) and have a very big opt-in box right at the top, and on the right and in the middle and on the bottom.

There should be no reason they would deny this campaign and you can test what pages/articles convert the best.

3. You could get into media buys (i.e. having your banner at the top of a popular forum in your niche. Maybe try it one day and see what happens?


4. As for SEO, this is a tricky one as of right now. I have seen so many people complaining and the rankings are all over the place. I would keep it safe and just do manual high quality backlinking if you are going to take this route.

5. VIDEO -> I don't know if you have already done this or not, but create review videos(Youtube) for your products and then create backlinks to them and share them on several video platforms. Videos will rank very quickly and are an amazing way to market the product. Don't be surprised to see them rank high in the Google sometimes overnight. (one of my videos is outranking my main site and I hardly sent any backlinks to it, whereas made tons of backlinks to my site and it still isn't beating it lol)


I hope that helps and clarifies the situation


Of course, if anything is till unclear or doesn't make sense I am all ears!


Regards,


The-Truth


P.s. For some reason I am unable to add an avatar? I followed the guidelines but it just shows it as blank? Any assistance with this would be appreciated

I understand and appreciate this. But not all affiliate promoting sites are crummy. I happen to think that mine are full of useful information. I personally wrote all 22 of the articles on the site, after extensive research, then read and personally reviewed all the affiliate products that are listed there. It isn't just a "splash" or sales page. So while I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that all affiliate sites are crummy, I guess I'm just being a little sensitive! Never mind. It's just frustrating. I'll get traffic there in other ways. Thx for the input and insight.

 

[Jill]

Thanks for the follow up, The-Truth! No problem at all. I'm still learning a lot about the IM stuff between my "real" job and life. And it is sometimes tempting to take shortcuts. I know that the sample set of my traffic is not great enough to draw any significant conclusions about the conversion rate of my affiliate product(s). But the anecdotal evidence is pretty darned encouraging... which is why I wanted to buy some traffic in order to test the conversion of more traffic.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I was probably just being a little over-sensitive!! But I really appreciate your taking the time to respond. I may send you an IM with more info. But this is a review-type site, a'la Chris Rempel (the Lazy Super-Affiliate), with a bunch of articles on the same site as the reviews. So it isn't a blog, per se. Perhaps I should change it up, so that it appears to be content first, review site second? Dunno. It's just a little site that I threw out there a few years ago when I was learning about this stuff, then forgot about entirely . . . until I got a $500+ check in the mail from Clickbank a few months ago! This made me think that maybe it was worth look at a little more closely.

 

[Kak]

I hate to come off like a dick, but I believe that google just did you affiliates a favor. Affiliates are harder to make millions with than starting your OWN business. Obviously the reason so many people probably sign up is that its easier, not easier to to build a bank account, just easier.

Want to sell someone elses product? Come up with a wholesale agreement. You'll be way better off.

Yes I have past expirence in affiliate programs, made less than 20 dollars per hour.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

 

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[Trevor Kuntz]

I hate to come off like a dick, but I believe that google just did you affiliates a favor. Affiliates are harder to make millions with than starting your OWN business. Obviously the reason so many people probably sign up is that its easier, not easier to to build a bank account, just easier.

Want to sell someone elses product? Come up with a wholesale agreement. You'll be way better off.

Yes I have past expirence in affiliate programs, made less than 20 dollars per hour.

Create your own business, and then make "affiliate" sites that just subtlely promote your own business. You would probably make more money that way.

 

[Jill]

I hate to come off like a dick...

Anytime you feel compelled to preface a statement with, "I hate to come off like a dick..." LOL!!

I can't speak for other "affiliates". And since this is one of several website, and one of several other businesses I own, I don't really consider myself an "affiliate". But if I had a couple of sites that made $20/hr, 24/7/365, with no additional input required from me, then I would be happy to call myself an affiliate, because this would replace my job! My motivation to build this site, originally, was a POC. If I could build enough traffic that would convert, then I would write my own ebook to replace the "Most recommended" product on the site. I wasn't going to waste hundreds of hours researching and writing it, however, if I wasn't confident that it would convert.

I would agree with your statement about negotiating a wholesale agreement, if we're talking about durable goods (think: Amazon inventory) where the affiliate margins are oftimes only 3-10%. But eBooks (think: Clickbank Marketplace) usually have a 50-75% margin.

 

[theag]

does anybody know about the situation for lead gen sites now?

I'm planning a large authority local directory and want to drive adwords traffic to industry-specific landing pages with lead capture forms while I'm building the longterm SEO.

are these landing pages still allowed?

 

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[JDIII2007]

does anybody know about the situation for lead gen sites now?

I'm planning a large authority local directory and want to drive adwords traffic to industry-specific landing pages with lead capture forms while I'm building the longterm SEO.

are these landing pages still allowed?

Yes, you can still do it although you may have to be paying for higher clicks for a while. There is an interview on Mixergy that indirectly talks about this. That being said, I have seen some lead gen sites that use Adwords but a lot do not. My advice would be to find other paid advertising methods. Relying on Adwords and SEO is shaky ground at best. You can also assume that google will likely become even more stringent in these areas over the next few years based on the last couple of years.

 

[Kak]

Anytime you feel compelled to preface a statement with, "I hate to come off like a dick..." LOL!!

I can't speak for other "affiliates". And since this is one of several website, and one of several other businesses I own, I don't really consider myself an "affiliate". But if I had a couple of sites that made $20/hr, 24/7/365, with no additional input required from me, then I would be happy to call myself an affiliate, because this would replace my job! My motivation to build this site, originally, was a POC. If I could build enough traffic that would convert, then I would write my own ebook to replace the "Most recommended" product on the site. I wasn't going to waste hundreds of hours researching and writing it, however, if I wasn't confident that it would convert.

I would agree with your statement about negotiating a wholesale agreement, if we're talking about durable goods (think: Amazon inventory) where the affiliate margins are oftimes only 3-10%. But eBooks (think: Clickbank Marketplace) usually have a 50-75% margin.

Have you found anything on clickbank that you wanted to read? Just curious. That is a big problem.

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