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Real Deal Denver

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I have known for a very long time that college is not, and never was, the ticket to success that many would like you to believe. It is, however, a guaranteed way to be saddled with a ton of debt for a very long time.

Being I recently discussed this with several friends (several of which have Master degrees) that were working in dead end "jobs" (not careers), I thought the following example would be especially helpful for those looking for a plan to ramp up quickly. This can be an excellent opportunity for a Plan B, while one works on their dream Plan A endeavor. Double this with a spouse income, and we are talking serious power to get things done here. Scrap that extra min wage Saturday job plan!

One of my best friends is a master plumber, making 6 figures a year, and basically planning and supervising. He has a cushy job that he loves, and he's making the big bucks as a bonus.

This advice is not fast lane, however it is a lot better than going to college for many years and developing egoitis - for which there is no known cure. (Egoitis - a condition where ones ego grows to out of control proportions, with no increase in reasoning or thinking ability. Most common in young male college graduates before they realize the world values demonstrable abilities, instead of abstract theories.)

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Kak

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I don’t think there is the raving support for “higher” education here that you think there is.

Education, on the other hand, is the most important thing in the world to true success.

“Higher” education can be part of your education, but, if you expect results different than a typical college grad, you need more.

Self help/mindset books don’t get it done either.
 

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I truly believe we are gonna be one of the first generation to actually not push our kids to go to college.

That's the only way this bubble is gonna pop. Reverse social conditioning.

We have seen first hand that at the end of the day the laws of economics wins. A college degree when commoditized and over priced becomes worthless.

When mass crowds over populate a space its value has no where to go but down.

Our economy has created jobs there no doubt but these jobs are not high paying professional jobs. More like working at amazon or target kind of jobs.

The jobs academia trained for are gone and they will never return.
 

Kak

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I think the main benefit of college is that it holds kids to a higher standard than a typical 18 year old kid for a few more years. It's expensive for that reason. I have always touted formal apprenticeships or mentorships with bad a$$ people as a good potential alternative. Work for free, for someone you respect, in an industry you like. There is power in FREE and it is a lot cheaper than college.

In GENERAL, with PLENTY of exceptions, there is more polish to someone with a college degree. Regardless of degree or not, you can pretty easily tell when someone decided that education isn't important. It isn't pretty.
 

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I truly believe we are gonna be one of the first generation to actually not push our kids to go to college.
Couldn't agree more with this... my kids are 8 and 11, both the wife and I are university educated and won't be encouraging our kids to do the same.

Whilst my plan has ultimately stemmed from job knowledge my education got me, I could have certainly got that domain knowledge another way, and much cheaper in the process!
 

The Abundant Man

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I truly believe we are gonna be one of the first generation to actually not push our kids to go to college.

That's the only way this bubble is gonna pop. Reverse social conditioning.

We have seen first hand that at the end of the day the laws of economics wins. A college degree when commoditized and over priced becomes worthless.

When mass crowds over populate a space its value has no where to go but down.

Our economy has created jobs there no doubt but these jobs are not high paying professional jobs. More like working at amazon or target kind of jobs.

The jobs academia trained for are gone and they will never return.
The modern day college system is a product of the Industrial Revolution. We're in the Information Age now.
 

ChrisV

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I can’t even see this thread because I have you blocked (you seriously and honestly hurt my brain in that last thread) but I’ll still reply anyway, even though i’m probably gonna hate myself for it.

IMG_0391.PNG


Going to college isn’t necessarily about making money. It’s about enriching yourself and exposing yourself to new ideas.

And going to college isn’t even necessarily the important thing. I think a huge part the understanding of the scientific method which is heavily integrated into universities.

sciencevsotherphilosophies.jpg

In universities, you’re essentially protected against quackery. Bookstores, you’re not. The internet? You’re definitely not. But in universities you’re almost 100% protected against quack type ideas. (Liberalism, Marxism, etc is another story, but I’m not opening that can of worms right now)

It’s not perfect but.. I’m trying to think of the best way to explain this…

It’s like going into Whole Foods. Sure you can go to Stop and Shop and get healthy foods, but in Whole Foods you’re essentially guaranteed that almost anything in your cart is healthy. The people have done the research for you. You can buy whatever you want and the chance of you getting some crazy pesticide that shrinks your balls is very low.

If you go into Stop and Shop, sure you can get safe stuff but you have to know how to read the labels and differentiate the quality stuff from the shit.

I see college and Whole Foods the same way. If you go to college, you’re essentially gauranteed to not get shit information. Again liberalism and marxism aside.

This shit is really complex.

There are pros and cons. But Whole Foods costs 10x as much.

But in universities all the info is fact checked, you know you’re getting quality information, and you don’t have to check the sources in everything. When you write a paper you have to cite your work with credible sources so you can’t just make shit up.

Now ‘self education’ Where’s the guarantee you’re not getting bullshit? Like go look at the Book recommendation threads. Where is the gauranteee you’re not getting Quackary?

screen-shot-2017-01-02-at-10-25-39-am.jpg

People are like “I READ! And way better stuff than they teach you in COLLEGE.. lead week I read Think And Grow Delusional and The Secret Law of Attraction by Rhonda BurnedMe” and not having taking science classes think it’s an actual F*cking law. There is definitely no “Law” of Attraction in science. But yet is Self Help every book sports this shit! Positive Thinking is another piece of quackery.

Sure you can learn the stuff elsewhere, but the chances of you getting suckered into some batshit insane philosophy are way higher.

If you really really understand the philosophy of skeptism and critical thinking, then you can parse literature yourself.

Dude, I’m not new to this. I used to read Napoleon Hill. I used to read Tony Robbins. NONE OF IT WILL MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL. The academic research on success ACTUALLY WILL. I know this from experience, I know this from the data. The Self Help stuff isn’t WRONG, but it’s not going to take you from Point A to Point B.

It’s like if someone is depressed and someone says “you have to be positive.” Well that advice isn’t wrong, but the chance that that advice is going to take you from Point A (depression) to Point B (not depressed) is basically nonexistent. But doctors and psychologists have the answer to depression, and it’s actually on that takes you from A to B. How do we know that? We run experiments under rigorous conditions and take down meticulous data.

This self-help stuff is all quackery.

I mean.. I’m actually not pro-college at all. That’s YOUR assumption. I’m actually Anti-college but pro-academia. That may sound paradox but it’s actually not. I can’t wait until they chase the left’s idealogical agenda out of academia once and for all. The academy has become infiltrated with feminists, marxists, post-modernists, SJWs, safe spaces, trigger warnings, and fall types of other F*ckery. And furthermore, the technology is simply old. I can’t wait until they tear down all the academies and put online schools in their place. Physical colleges are quickly becoming obsolete with MOOCs taking their place. It’s like going to a play vs watching Netflix. To me in 2018 colleges are the equivalent of going to see any live entertainment. Yea sure, going to a live play is cool but in reality it’s a novelty. Or live music. And unless Metallica is in town, which is like 3x per decade, you’re stuck with some shitty local band.

College is the same. Why would I listen to some shitty no-name professor yap about evolution OR rack up 150k in dept to listen to good ones when I can listen to Robert Sapolsky who is literally one of the leading neuroscientists in the world, and posts a lot of his classes online. That guy was literally out in the field darting chimpanzees to measure their neurotransmitter levels while the cuck professor at Whatever Community College was making 32k/year doing whatever. Why would I listed to Professor Nobody when I can use MOOCs and literally listen to Ivy League professors in my kitchen in my underwear. I can listen to some of the top names in Neuroscience, Psychology, whatever rather than some balding loser at community college

But I digress. The idea that you think I’m pro-college is just wrong. It’s complex. i’m certainly pro-science. And I’m certainly pro fact-checking. If you really have to know despite my intelligence, I have BRUTAL ADHD, making it Virtually impossible for me to sit in a classroom. So my “sitting in a classroom” education is actually limited.

These Self-Help books are just feel-good fluff that sounds good, but a “Millionaire Mindset” never made anyone a millionaire. It’s so much more complex than that.
 
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Real Deal Denver

Real Deal Denver

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I mean.. I’m actually not pro-college at all. That’s YOUR assumption. I’m actually Anti-college but pro-academia. That may sound paradox but it’s actually not. I can’t wait until they chase the left’s idealogical agenda out of academia once and for all. The academy has become infiltrated with feminists, marxists, post-modernists, SJWs, safe spaces, trigger warnings, and fall types of other f*ckery. And furthermore, the technology is simply old. I can’t wait until they tear down all the academies and put online schools in their place.
This is the best post I've read of yours. Very enlightening, and I agree with almost everything you said.

This certainly runs counter to your endless posts of some professor blathering on and on about some topic that doesn't matter in the here and now. Sure we'd all like to know why we act the way we act, and how similar we are to chimpanzees - that's just fantastic! But is it worth two seconds in my day to day life? Hell no. So forgive me if I come down on your overdone emphasis on some professor talking about something that just doesn't matter to 99% of the population.

I did just attend a seminar which featured Kevin O'Leary as a speaker. I drove across town and spent half a day there. Hung on every word. Wanted a picture with him, but so did 1,000 other people, so he didn't stick around. Now THERE is someone I admire, although he does have many faults. I have his books too.

I studied Jane Goodall decades ago. Are they STILL really making a big deal about how apes and monkeys react? Didn't Jane cover that in the 60's? Talk about milking a subject for all it's worth! (see below for reference) This crap will still be here 100 years from now. Crap. Crap. Crap. Think of that the next time you want to post a video of some professor extolling the benefits of - oh, who cares...

Anyway - great post overall. There was one item which you missed the target on by a mile.

And unless Metallica is in town, which is like 3x per decade, you’re stuck with some sh*tty local band.
If any band is worse than Metallica - which I can't imagine - then they should have water splashed on them while they're playing so they all get electrocuted.

The last band I went to (Saturday), although they were free, I told them on break that I'd pay $50 a seat to hear them. Totally top notch. And they were all playing the same song at the same time - and I could understand them - which are qualities I totally insist every band should adhere to.

I know where Metallica got their style. In my younger days, I would sometimes accidentally slide the needle across my vinyl record, which produced a very loud screeching noise. Fearing that I might have damaged my precious album, I screamed very loudly. Luckily the albums survived this ordeal unscathed. But I do see a lot of resemblance in that event and what Metallica puts out. Who knew I was on to something?

Reference to Jane Goodall: "Chimpanzees Make and Use Tools. In October, 1960, Dr. Goodall watched as a chimpanzee bent a twig, stripped off it leaves, and used it to “fish” termites from their nest. Up until her moment of discovery, the ability to make and use tools had been considered uniquely human."
 

ChrisV

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In GENERAL, with PLENTY of exceptions, there is more polish to someone with a college degree. Regardless of degree or not, you can pretty easily tell when someone decided that education isn't important. It isn't pretty.
The polish is a big thing. I can usually talk to someone for 5 minutes and tell their educational background.

People who are poorly educated make major reasoning errors. They say things like “Smoking doesn’t kill... my uncle smoked 2 packs per day and lived to be 90!” or “The economy wasn't bad in 2008... I made $500,000 that year!”

90% of the educated will realize the error in those statements right away. 90% of non educated won’t even realize what’s wrong with those statements. And that’s the problem.
 

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ChrisV

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People who are poorly educated make major reasoning errors. They say things like “Smoking doesn’t kill... my uncle smoked 2 packs per day and lived to be 90!” or “The economy wasn't bad in 2008... I made $500,000 that year!”
One of my best friends is a master plumber, making 6 figures a year, and basically planning and supervising. He has a cushy job that he loves, and he's making the big bucks as a bonus.
Annnnnddddddd there it is. I swear to God I didn’t even see his post before I wrote that. I literally just just unblocked him.

It’s like clockwork.
 
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Real Deal Denver

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Annnnnddddddd there it is. I swear to God I didn’t even see his post before I wrote that. I literally just just unblocked him.

It’s like clockwork.
Step up to the plate college boy. Let's see what you've got; besides college studies ad nauseam.

I know numerous people that are very successful without the advantage of your superior education that you love to flaunt. It would be nice if you could respect that. It doesn't take anything away from their accomplishments, but it sure makes you look somewhat like an over educated... oh, let's not go there.

Instead of demeaning and insulting people, and entire professions even, why don't you ever enlighten us with what it is that you do?

A lot of people tolerate you hanging around and acting like Mr. Big Deal. I think your charade is now overdone a bit.

Let's hear some good ol success stories, instead of your constant put downs. That would be refreshing, for a change. Everyone else chimes in on their success from time to time and speak from their experience. Another version of your interpretation of someone else's lecture is not what anyone needs to hear. Anymore.

We don't even know you, so you can lie if you'd like. Just anything - for a change...
 

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There are plenty of cheap (almost free) top universities in Europe, thanks to our government (& taxes). It's true that the market decides your salary, but nobody stops you from doing a side hustle here. Yes, you can be a construction worker and make the same money in 2 days as an engineer get paid in 1 month. It's all about your personal goals. My engineering background helps me to understand & build more complex systems. Thinking in SYSTEMS is a very helpful skill. If an engineer starts a plumbing business, I bet he 'd make 3x more than a non-engineer.
 

ChrisV

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I’m not insulting people who made it... nor would I ever. I’m over educated? Dude I literally JUST said that my formal education is extremely limited.

As far as people who made it without school? That’s awesome for them. I’m happy for them.

I also know a guy who won 10 million dollars in the lottery. I’m not going to recommend that people play the lottery. Your argument is the statistical equivalent of “playing the lottery is a good idea because I know a guy who won”

I know plenty of people who were successful without college.@ApparentHorizon being one (actually I’m not sure his educational background I just think he’s bright)

I don’t care about college... i’m pro-science. I’m pro-data.refer to my last post please.

But there is utility to college. And your anti-intelectualism is something i see ALL the time. You’re one in a million that thinks they’re smarter than doctors. Formal education has it’s pros and cons. But it does have utility. Even entrepreneurs are more likely to be successful if they have college

“There are hundreds of stories about entrepreneurs like J. R. Simplot, the inventor of the frozen French fry, who quit school at age 14 to start a company, which grew into a $3-billion business. These stories have led to the myth that education doesn’t help you become a successful entrepreneur and that it may even hinder your efforts.

Don’t be deluded by this myth. People with little education who become successful entrepreneurs are few and far between. If you want to become a successful entrepreneur, your odds are much better if you graduate from high school and go on to college. Many studies show that better educated entrepreneurs have greater access to external capital, lower business failure rates, greater business sales and employment growth, and more profitable ventures.24 In fact, the data show that the average start-up founded by a college graduate has 25 percent greater sales than the average start-up founded by a high school dropout, and the average start-up founded by a person with a graduate degree has 40 percent greater sales than the average start-up founded by a college graduate.25”

Now you can debate causality and maybe say “well the types of people who are likely to graduate college are the same ones who are successful”.. which might be a valid argument, but I think it’s a little of both.

If someone makes it without school, great. Even a lot of the more successful entrepreneurs On this forum are graduates @Kak , MJ.


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ChrisV

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My issue isn’t with people who made it without education.. it’s the fact that you feel the need to troll every thread with your anti-science bullshit.

I block you then I get messages about threads that you post continuing the argument from the last thread I said I was done with.

And I cannot seem to get away from you no matter what.

Okay we get it, you’re smarter than everyone... you don’t need instructions like those brainwashed drones in the matrix... you figured everything out by yourself and you;’re a special little snowflake

This certainly runs counter to your endless posts of some professor blathering on and on about some topic that doesn't matter in the here and now
Are you talking about the thread I posted about Jordan Peterson?

Jordan Peterson is extremely popular around here. Nearly everyone here likes him

Any Jordan Peterson fans out there?

And the other thread....

Almost every reply to the thread was “That video was really good, then this idiot comes along:

There. Saved someone six minutes from watching that video. Next thought that we don't have to beat to death?

I sure don't miss my college days. How can you say something in five minutes, that should only take 20 seconds? Enroll in college and find out. Become educated.

This is what people are liking on the internet? They must be dumb as rocks, or live under one.
Yo what do you want a cookie? You’re not smarter than anyone bro. You’re an arrogant narcissistic little troll. "How can you say something in five minutes, that should only take 20 seconds?” Bro you write like a 42 page novella every time you post. I can’t even make heads or tails of anything you write. If the crap you write was so insightful people would be paying you millions of dollars for your advice. But it’s not. All you do is write 47 page books that say literally nothing. And I blame the people who ‘like’ your comments for encouraging you.

I swear to God you’re like a Chucky doll that just won’t go away. You’re like one of those little ankle dogs who keeps attacking you no matter how many times you kick it.

Okay, you think you’re brilliant. Great. Those are the things you’re supposed to let other people decide.

Stop typing to me. I’m serious.

I can’t do this s--- dude. I have WAY too much s--- to do today.

I’m reignoring. Please go away.
 
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Kak

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I know numerous people that are very successful without the advantage of your superior education that you love to flaunt.
You kind of did it again there...

You brought a micro truth to a macro argument.

Now, there are millionaires and billionaires that aren't college educated. They absolutely exist. Does their existence affirm that the average American is better off not going to college? Average business person? Hell no.

"Numerous people" is still a miniscule sample size. The truth is that most millionaires and billionaires ARE, in fact, college educated. There is factual, data driven proof to this point.

Use that information as you will. I personally believe you don't need college to have a successful business career, if you have the right kind of personality, but the data doesn't lie. More successful people went to college than not. Big over arching claims for society, based only on your social circle, don't work here.
 
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Real Deal Denver

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Okay we get it, you’re smarter than everyone... you don’t need instructions like those brainwashed drones in the matrix... you figured everything out by yourself and you;’re a special little snowflake
what if im retarded.png
 

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You kind of did it again there...

You brought a micro truth to a macro argument.

Now, there are millionaires and billionaires that aren't college educated. They absolutely exist. Does their existence affirm that the average American is better off not going to college? Average business person? Hell no.

"Numerous people" is still a miniscule sample size. The truth is that most millionaires and billionaires ARE, in fact, college educated. There is factual, data driven proof to this point.

Use that information as you will. I personally believe you don't need college to have a successful business career, if you have the right kind of personality, but the data doesn't lie. More successful people went to college than not. Big over arching claims for society, based only on your social circle, don't work here.
I made no broad claims, I just pointed out that success is very achievable for anyone. This is in response to the overload of dull professor videos and studies we've been subjected to lately. Like everyone here needs some enlightenment from some new findings in some study... ? Is this a "freshman forum" welcome to the campus newsletter or is it an entrepreneurial forum?

At the very least, at least I'm in the right forum!

I hang around winners so it gets old hearing about the latest speel on studies about chimpanzees, or whatever else fake headline breaking news is out there. I'm gonna have to back to the sleazy porn sites if I keep hearing about how great these new age professors all over YouTube are...

Instead of talking about black holes, or neuron brain impulses, or IQ tests - - -

One of my best friends collects cars. Not just any car; classic and unique cars. Flippin stupid expensive cars. He has two commercial buildings (not garages) full of them. Buildings with steel RACKS to hold the cars on three separate levels. And this is just a side thing he does for a little amusement. You should see what he does when he is serious.

He's not a neuron scientist, or even a plumber. Far less than that. He's in construction. Many people that don't know him well think he's a peon that scrapes by. And he prefers it that way. That actually aids him in his business. Manuel Labor - you may have heard of him. He's from south of the border.

Anyway, my point is that there are many people worthy of respect out there. And way too many loud mouths that are not. That's all I was saying - no more, no less.

special snowflake detected.gif
 
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Ayanle Farah

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I personally believe you don't need college to have a successful business career, if you have the right kind of personality.
Just curious, what kind of personality do you need?
 

Kak

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Just curious, what kind of personality do you need?
To be a true success, you need the right personality type either way.

The type of person that is willing to educate themselves for the rest of their lives.
 
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Ayanle Farah

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You need the right personality type either way, to be a true success.

The type of person that is willing to educate themselves for the rest of their lives.
I see, thought you were going to say "a people-oriented person" or something similar.
I'm in the clear.:cool:
 

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It depends what and how you are using "self-help". But to say it's all quackery is like saying the stock market didn't work for me, the stock market doesn't work.

Tony Robbins self help for example can go layers like an onions into oneself, and he in fact also says it's Not "chanting no weeds in your garden and hoping for no weeds". Sure he does use some fun temporary hype stuff like fire-walks, but he also has a lot of psychology based information. Some knowledge which would Definitely help with depression.

Follow Grant Cardone's Financial "self-Help" and you'll surely be a millionaire in due time. (5-10 years?)

Most lay-people (those not on TMF) have a certain set of ingrained belief systems, they learn habits from their parents, and for breaking through or even learning these habits exist (awareness), self-help books can be great. But to read a self-help book and expect $1M sac of coins to fall in your lap, you're setting yourself up for failure.

WHY does one go to University? Because your parents force you? Why? Because they want you to have a "good" "stable" job/career? Why? Because they want you to be Successful? Why? So you don't struggle. Why? So you need money so you don't struggle. So it's all for the Dollar? It's just one pathway of many. (some people want to be doctors, or scientics, They need University, peroid.)
 

ChrisV

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You brought a micro truth to a macro argument.

Now, there are millionaires and billionaires that aren't college educated. They absolutely exist. Does their existence affirm that the average American is better off not going to college? Average business person? Hell no.

"Numerous people" is still a miniscule sample size. The truth is that most millionaires and billionaires ARE, in fact, college educated. There is factual, data driven proof to this point.

Use that information as you will. I personally believe you don't need college to have a successful business career, if you have the right kind of personality, but the data doesn't lie. More successful people went to college than not. Big over arching claims for society, based only on your social circle, don't work here.
Bingo..... okay let me break down why anecdotes don’t work..

You say “I know. guy making 100K being a plumber.”

Now I look at the data and see only 2% of plumbers are making that level.

So for every ‘plumber you know making 100K’ there literally 49 plumbers who are not. It’s just not representative of the sample.

Great, it’s possible. It’s just not likely.

“It’s a good idea to go to vegas I knew a guy who went there and came back with $40,000”.... Yea except for every guy who made $40,000 in vegas there are hundreds, probably thousands who completely lost their shirt.

Now that’s obviously a straw man argument, but I’m just taking the same point about anecdotes and bringing them to their logical conclusion.

Someone on this board has a degree in economics (being completely unspecific becasue I don’t know how much personal life people want on the net, even though it’s probably trivial.) When they talk about economics, it just makes sense. WhenI talk to people who haven’t studied it, it’s just like they have their head in the clouds. And I’m a prime example. >Lime I’m not exempt from this stuff... I used to border on socialism with my economic views until i actually took the time to learn about economics, now I border on libertarianism. Why? I took the time to lean about it.

Small digression ahead:

You say “I have this dollar.. would I trade this dollar for Widget X or would I trade this dollar for Widget Y and if no one wants Widget Y, the Widget Y Manufacturer Corporation dies. As it should. Socialism doesn't work because it allocates resources where they’re not needed. In capitalism you decide.

I still believe that people who are low in ability (handicapped, low IQ, ADHD, depression, and other disabilities) should be helped

But without learning how the world works people cling to incorrect ideologies. And it’s a big problem.

You need to understand how a car works before you start throwing out theories about how to fix it.

But if someone goes to the bookstore to learn about money, how do I know that they’re not learning some Quack-economics from a Tony Robbins book? At least Academia I know they’re getting fact-based information. Sure there are other ways to learn it, but the chances of you getting some insane bullshit is way higher outside of academia.

So for the average person it’s easier for them to just go to college because most people don’t know how to parse bullshit from truth. Like they don’t know what are valid scientific sources but all in all I agree.. there are a lot of really good sources of information, and to rack up hundreds of thousands

Here’s the same “university professor that kept blathering on” posting a scathing analysis of college and universities as a whole at 4:15





and he puts it in better words that i do
 
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garyfritz

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You say “I know. guy making 100K being a plumber.”
Now I look at the data and see only 2% of plumbers are making that level.
So for every ‘plumber you know making 100K’ there literally 49 plumbers who are not. It’s just not representative of the sample.
Great, it’s possible. It’s just not likely.
I'm sure this won't be a popular sentiment, but... I would love to see similar data for the success rate of entrepreneurs. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% certain that the success rate for people in the Fastlane community is significantly higher than the success rate of non-FLers. MJ's teachings are solid and have pointed a lot of people in the right direction. But even among the FL community there are plenty of frustrated "non-success" stories. People here often say "don't waste your money in the stock market [or whatever], you'll get much higher returns by investing in your business." That's true IF you have built or are building a successful business. But how often do we read about somebody who's blown his ad budget with no results, or invested in importing a product and can't sell it, etc? How many people NEVER grow their business to a successful level?

I think a lot of "100K plumber" stories get told around here. Yes, entrepreneurial success is absolutely possible, and it's much more likely than the 2% rate @ChrisV mentioned. But how likely? I have no idea, but I'm sure it's nowhere near 100%.

Once you've built a business or two, it becomes a lot easier. "The second million is always easier." @biophase and @MidwestLandlord are great examples of this. Once you've done it, you have experience, you have connections, you have understanding of what does & doesn't work, you have cashflow to fund the new venture, etc. And you've already demonstrated you have the drive and stick-to-it-ive-ness to make it work, so of course you can do it again if you want to. It's a bit like saying "You play for the Patriots, so you could probably go play for any other team in the NFL."

But that doesn't say anything about Joe Sixpack on the sidelines. Coming on as an undrafted free agent is a lot more daunting. You can greatly improve your chances of success by following the advice of successful people here -- but there's some lottery-ticket luck involved too.
 

ChrisV

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@garyfritz

Well that number was specific to plumbers and not even a statistic. Just a guesstimate. It’s probably actually higher though. I think the rate of plumbers making 6 figures is less than the rate of entrepreneurs in other fields. But I posted some rough statistics in an earlier reply

In terms of statistics the numbers aren’t amazing, but they’re actually a lot more optimistic than people say:

bls-business-survival-rates_rWnMXrU_large.png

Why Some Startups Succeed (and Why Most Fail)

Success rate: What percentage of businesses fail in their first year?

Top 6 Reasons New Businesses Fail

But then again, I totally agree and think that MJ has cracked the code as much as is possible, but you also need certain personality traits to be successful at entrepreneurship. A book that thoroughly analyzes the statistics on entrepreneurship is The Illusions of Entrepreneurship by Scott A. Shane. The entire book is devoted to entrepreneurship statistics:

Contents

Acknowledgments
Introduction
1: America: Land of Entrepreneurship in an Entrepreneurial Era?
2: What Are Today’s Entrepreneurial Industries?
3: Who Becomes an Entrepreneur?
4: What Does the Typical Start-Up Look Like?
5: How Are New Businesses Financed?
6: How Well Does the Typical Entrepreneur Do?
7: What Makes Some Entrepreneurs More Successful Than Others?
8: Why Don’t Women Start More Companies?
9: Why Is Black Entrepreneurship So Rare?
10: How Valuable Is the Average Start-Up?
Conclusion
Notes
Index”

It includes data on each of those topics.

I posted an excerpt earlier in the thread and if there are any specific stats you want I can look them up.

41xwZGEpY-L._SY346_.jpg

The issue is that people with high creativity almost have to be entrepreneurs, because entrepreneurs are high in creativity. So that’s why you get a lot of ‘don’t follow the herd’ sentiments around here. A lot of people (most actually) are perfectly happy following the herd. They like waking up at 7 every day, being at work at 9, getting their predictable, stable paycheck, then retiring with their 401k. This forum is disproportionally full of creative people. Creative types are more drawn to entrepreneurship (another topic Dr. Peterson spoke on.) So we really don’t have a choice. Entrepreneurial types not being Entrepreneurial is like a bird without wings. I sometimes think that being creative is more curse than gift. Honestly, if you want to make a good living, Entrepreneurship is maybe the last thing i’d recommend lol... I think it’s just better for people like us who are creative.
 

ChrisV

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Just curious, what kind of personality do you need?
Oh man, here we go ;D

The first thing is Intelligence.

Screen Shot 2018-10-09 at 1.46.12 PM.png

IQ is very predictive of success.

Do you have to be smart to be rich? The impact of IQ on wealth, income and financial distress

The next is a trait called Conscientiousness, which his actually more predictive statistically of life success than IQ.

C and credit score.gif

Screen shot 2011-04-02 at 11.04.19 PM-2.png

Conscientiousness is huge to success. Huge.

Conscientiousness is the personality trait of being careful, or vigilant. Conscientiousness implies a desire to do a task well, and to take obligations to others seriously. Conscientious people tend to be efficient and organized as opposed to easy-going and disorderly. They exhibit a tendency to show self-discipline, act dutifully, and aim for achievement; they display planned rather than spontaneous behavior; and they are generally dependable. It is manifested in characteristic behaviors such as being neat, and systematic; also including such elements as carefulness, thoroughness, and deliberation (the tendency to think carefully before acting.)[1] Conscientiousness is one of the five traits of both the Five Factor Model and the HEXACO model of personality and is an aspect of what has traditionally been referred to as having character. Conscientious individuals are generally hard-working, and reliable. They are also likely to be conformists.[2] When taken to an extreme, they may also be "workaholics", perfectionists, and compulsive in their behavior.[3] People who score low on conscientiousness tend to be laid back, less goal-oriented, and less driven by success; they also are more likely to engage in antisocial and criminal behavior.[4]​

Conscientiousness is characterized by self-control, organization, and goal orientation and is positively related to a number of health and professional outcomes. Thus, it is commonly suggested that conscientiousness should be related to superior executive functioning (EF) abilities, especially prepotent response inhibition. However, little empirical support for this notion has emerged, perhaps due to oversimplified and underspecified modeling of EF. The current study sought to fill this gap by testing relations between conscientiousness and three facets of EF using a nested factors latent variable approach. Participants (N = 420; Mage  = 22.5; 50% male; 91% Caucasian) completed a measure of conscientiousness and nine EF tasks designed to tap three related yet distinguishable facets of EF: working memory updating, mental set shifting, and prepotent response inhibition. Structural equation models showed that conscientiousness is positively associated with the EF facet of mental set shifting but not response inhibition or working memory updating. Despite the common notion that conscientiousness is associated with cognitive abilities related to rigid control over impulses (i.e., inhibition), the current results suggest the cognitive ability most associated with conscientiousness is characterized by flexibility and the ability to adapt to changing environmental contingencies and task demands.

Lower psychometric conscientiousness and steeper discounting of future rewards at age 14 also predicts problematic drug use at age 16, but the neural responses independently predict more variance than psychometric measures. Together, these findings suggest that diminished neural responses to anticipated rewards in novelty-seeking adolescents may increase vulnerability to future problematic drug use.​

Frontiers in Psychology - Who does well in life? Conscientious adults excel in both objective and subjective success

LOW Aggreeableness is also correlated for a couple reasons. People low on agreeableness are competitive, and also less likely to puss out on income negotiations.

So basically (in order of importance):

Hard worker, neat, smart, competitive

In technical terms:

high industriousness, high orderliness, high IQ, low agreeableness

How much you can change these traits is another topic. They’re about 50% hereditary, but there are things you can do.

t depends what and how you are using "self-help". But to say it's all quackery is like saying the stock market didn't work for me, the stock market doesn't work.
Valid criticism. I generally thing Self-Help from folks in Academia is amazing. Angela Duckworth, Gabriele Oettingen, Jordan B. Peterson, Dr. Robert Sapolsky. Those authors are top-level PhDs in their respective fields. But I usually call those books “Personal Development” rather than “Self Help.” Just a personal preference.
 

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