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Is todays education wrong??

farrishayes1

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Coincidently, I was watching this today.

I agree with a lot with that is being said here. And I will add, it is not a US problem, or an European problem. It is a world problem. I have attended schools in Brazil, France, the US. Have tried the IB system, American system, the Brazilian, the International system and had friends in the German, French and Italian systems. IT IS A WORLD PROBLEM.

I think we wait too long for kids to decide what area they want to focus on. For example, let's take an entrepreneur which wants to go the academic route before diving into the market. He will go on to do high school with people that want VASTLY different things from him and that don't care (and probably don't need as much): financial planning, stock market, etc. THEN, he goes on to college to do Business. AGAIN, a very general degree full of people that want to be Investment Bankers, Consultants, Accountants, etc. ONLY when he has reached a master's level, will he able to FINALLY "study" entrepreneurship. I think if you show a predisposition to learn entrepreneurship, you should be able to take the route. Instead of having Chemistry in school, I could've had programming. Instead of English literature, Microeconomics. We lose so much time (years) in nonsensical stuff.
Couldn't have said it better
 
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ApparentHorizon

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Holy hell batman. This thread.

Asian countries have the highest education rankings:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

They also have the highest suicide rates (especially around exam time):
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

And yet...

Record number of Americans are millionaires:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-number-of-millionaires-living-in-the-us.html

But...

Half of you sound like you're venting for being lied to - the other half just complaining about something that's out of your control.

You're telling me, none of you have ever learned a single thing from school that you can't apply to your biz or everyday life? Am I taking crazy pills or something...

I certainly don't think this thread implies that programming is the panacea for fixing schools... At least, I don't think that's the case.

I have a programming background from school - and programming teaches you discipline and problem solving - both essential for long term business success.

We all have a self-image that was created by this false environment called "school" and often times this is exactly what holds us back when we try to learn something all on our own when we grow up. All thanks to a false and ineffective system that everyone defends and praises.

I wrote a research paper about this in college before dropping out to start my biz: School actually has very little to do with how you view yourself. 90% of how you judge yourself and your peers comes from TV and social media. I'll post it if I come across it.
 

Jackflower93

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Holy hell batman. This thread.

Asian countries have the highest education rankings:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

They also have the highest suicide rates (especially around exam time):
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

And yet...

Record number of Americans are millionaires:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-number-of-millionaires-living-in-the-us.html

But...

Half of you sound like you're venting for being lied to - the other half just complaining about something that's out of your control.

You're telling me, none of you have ever learned a single thing from school that you can't apply to your biz or everyday life? Am I taking crazy pills or something...



I have a programming background from school - and programming teaches you discipline and problem solving - both essential for long term business success.



I wrote a research paper about this in college before dropping out to start my biz: School actually has very little to do with how you view yourself. 90% of how you judge yourself and your peers comes from TV and social media. I'll post it if I come across it.

Im sure most people took away stuff they can use of albeit not very much from what Im reading in this thread. But look at how much time schools spend teaching subject's that are irrelevant.

I remember the amount of time we spent learning poetry.. Now Im not saying its useless... but you need to weigh in how relevant it is to real life pratical situations...sure if you want to learn poetry you should have the option to opt in...

My point is this, can that limited amount of time be spent on something that could be more beneficial through life, I think yes...
 

ApparentHorizon

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I remember the amount of time we spent learning poetry.. Now Im not saying its useless... but you need to weigh in how relevant it is to real life pratical situations...sure if you want to learn poetry you should have the option to opt in...

My point is this, can that limited amount of time be spent on something that could be more beneficial through life, I think yes...

Absolutely.

You could replace more than half of the subjects taught with more useful classes. Car maintenance, taxes, communication...the list goes on.

But you know what?

At this point - we have 0 excuses. You literally have all of the world's knowledge at you fingertips.

Referencing poetry - look up Neil deGrasse Tyson. He does a bit of it and his on stage communication skills are captivating. He created his own brand by connecting 2 different fields (communication and science), and is making decent money because of the fact.
 
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farrishayes1

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Holy hell batman. This thread.

Asian countries have the highest education rankings:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

They also have the highest suicide rates (especially around exam time):
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

And yet...

Record number of Americans are millionaires:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/07/record-number-of-millionaires-living-in-the-us.html

But...

Half of you sound like you're venting for being lied to - the other half just complaining about something that's out of your control.

You're telling me, none of you have ever learned a single thing from school that you can't apply to your biz or everyday life? Am I taking crazy pills or something...



I have a programming background from school - and programming teaches you discipline and problem solving - both essential for long term business success.



I wrote a research paper about this in college before dropping out to start my biz: School actually has very little to do with how you view yourself. 90% of how you judge yourself and your peers comes from TV and social media. I'll post it if I come across it.
I took 2 classes in high school that I actually use the information in my entrepreneurial ventures. One we took a dave Ramsey course in math and another we watched shark tank in an economics class. I love those teachers for that! other than that basic things like English, simple mathematics. Alot of time was wasted other than that. Which is the point tailor it to the student somehow so their time isn't wasted. Though talking won't get much done, we have to take action
 

Mattie

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Before the age of 18 I can't recall anything that was significant to remember right now, but what my history teacher taught us. "People tend to become what they picture themselves to be." The basics of math, english, and psychology probably were something of value. The rest of the time, I indulged more in the arts. And I believe I was just bored with it all.

The business college I went to I learned more valuable information which lead me to here as an entrepreneur. I feel the education I received was top notch, but they were professors who worked in the community and business in their field and brought it to the classroom.

I suppose it's the education you're getting, where, and whether they have high standards or just the average University or college. What sets them apart from the rest. I walked in five colleges before I chose. What gave me the most value for the money.

In the end, you can see I am in the Entrepreneur forum, so yes it applies to my projects, but I feel I've educated myself more than the college did, and when I get emails from the college today, they're behind times.
 

Ankerstein17

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Ill describe the education system here very quick and straight to the point?

Do we do stuff the same way today as we did 150 years ago? Nope. Then why is education the same way.

The education system was recreated for the industrial revolution, So the parents could send their children off to school, to learn the tools and skills needed for factory jobs that their parents had. It was essentially a day care system preparing them to become apart of the factory system in the future.
 
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Christian949

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Taking community classes as the moment, and I'd say everything I learned so far has been useless other than the speech class I took this summer.

Speech class I really saw the difference in myself overcoming the anxiety of public speaking, it is the only class that I have actually benefited from - from my perspective.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T READ THE PRIOR 4 PAGES so if it has already been stated, I apologize.

IMO, today's schooling system (at least in the USA) now teaches you to be a good slave; obedient, unquestioning, and to abide by conformity. As such, you're no threat to the system.

The good news is that this presents an opportunity for entrepreneurs who want to create alternatives to the slave/indoctrination system.
 
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G

GuestUser155

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DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T READ THE PRIOR 4 PAGES so if it has already been stated, I apologize.

IMO, today's schooling system (at least in the USA) now teaches you to be a good slave; obedient, unquestioning, and to abide by conformity. As such, you're no threat to the system.

The good news is that this presents an opportunity for entrepreneurs who want to create alternatives to the slave/indoctrination system.

It's called the Prussian Factory School Model and I quote "King Frederick's system was designed to teach obedience to solidify his control of the country. In the United States it found favor for its efficiency and secular form... The factory model method also features depersonalization, strict hierarchy of authority, uniformity over innovation, process and procedure, and standardization of curriculum, testing, class sizes, time periods, and learning rates."
 

G-Man

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After spending 4 years in a large education iNGO with funding from governments and billionaires, I decided that my child will never be in public school. The primary function of school is social indoctrination (like MJ said above).

If you're interested in how it's super important to teach LGBT sensitivity to starving people, or how homeschooling your child violates their 'human rights', let me know. BTW, not joking. I've sat in rooms full of PhDs arguing those very things.
 
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Hac

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i think the problem with our school systems is that it subconsciously places an emphasis on the students becoming employees instead of employers. How so? Maybe because the people that work in the school systems are all employees.

"You should just believe in yourself go out in the real world and create your own destiny" SAID NO TEACHER EVER
 

Hac

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Go visit a good Montessori School...you might be surprised...
My work involves visiting a montessori school every friday. its nothing but toddlers. Never heard of a montessori with high school students but im not saying they dont exist. Im saying ive never met a single person in my life who told me they went to a montessori and i live in san diego. With that being said, my research has convinced me the concept of montessori's teachings mostly revolve around prepubescent children. I agree that going to a montessori school can perhaps sway a child to think more outside the box than a public school child... but i wouldnt say they are more groomed to be entrepreneurs rather than employees.
 

Hac

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There are lots of Montessori Schools that go up through 8th grade. Some that go through high school. At least in my state (Maryland).

And, while I haven't verified the data, doing a quick Google search indicates that there are over 400 Montessori elementary schools in California and a few high schools.

Montessori focuses on independence, self-guided exploration and finding the learning style conducive to the particular student. If you don't believe that those things are more likely to turn out an entrepreneur than an employee, there's probably nothing I can say that will convince you. That said, both of my kids have several years of Montessori under their belt, and it's clear to me that they and all their Montessori friends have a much-different perspective on learning than those kids who didn't have the benefit of Montessori.

But again, that's just my experience with my two kids...
That definitely does sound like it can help a child develop entrepreneurial skills. Something I will definitely consider when I have kids one day. I just dont know anyone personally that has been, or has kids enrolled, to montessori. I wasn't aware of what Montesorri schools were specifically always thought they were just preschools. TIL
 
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Ninjakid

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In North America, public education hasn't really evolved since the industrial revolution, and it does exactly what it's meant to do: teach children to survive in the world as working/middle class.

So no, it's not wrong, it just doesn't fit everyone.
 

Interesting Life

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I think the biggest issue in the United States is that the average student cares less than in other parts of the world.

Many American kids feel entitled and thus work less than a student in India or China might.

There can also definitely be a shift in the proportion of topics that are taught. I think there is a great value to general education in math, science, history, english, etc.

I also think kids should be taught about business, the law, taxes and other practical life subjects.
 

Pilot35

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OpulentSupercars

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Today the education is bad because it teaches kids to follow the rules, that good if you want to work for a boss. But kids need to be able to self express and learn that there are more than two paths in life and those are work or school.

Schools should have courses for entourpourship because growing up I never knew I could make an opportunity for myself. But I also think no one wants to talk about it because it's risky and a lot of let downs happen.

In order to be successful you need trial and error and most parents don't want that it's safer to work for a boss then to be one.
Young adults usually figure it out after the fact.
 

PoGOOD

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I finished my high school at a time when all Polish men were supposed to go to the army for 24 and later 18 months at least. The only way out of this duty was to go to university. After graduation you "only" had to go to the army for 6 months.

As somewhere near the half of my Highschool I realised I don't learn much, my decision was simple - I go to the university only to avoid losing years of my life in the army.

I was attending the university during the weekends and worked my arse off every week. Within 4 years of exceptionally hard and diligent work I learned so much and became so valuable to my bosses they promoted me to the position of marketing manager f the Puma sport goods brand for Poland.

At that time I was still a student of management and marketing studies. I quit this school after a truly hot "discussion" with my marketing professor that was teaching us so much bullshit and pure theory that I couldn't stand it any longer.

It was nearly 20 years ago, but I never stopped learning. I read books, paid my own tickets to various trainings and courses, attended events and bought online courses. Plus I practiced like crazy. Whatever I read - I put into practice ASAP.

Do I regret dropping-out of university?

Not at all!

It was - by far- the best decision I made in my life.

I don't press my kids when it comes to educational choices. I focus only on their talents, abilities and dreams. My goal is to help them choose wisely - not choose the path preselected by our crazy society...


Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk Pro
 

eliquid

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I feel the school system is so bad, that 2 of my children are home schooled and have been that way for 2+ years now.

We left one ( our 3rd child ) in public school because he was a junior in High School and he wanted to be with his "friends".

The 2 we home school are both in "middle school" so to speak and are getting 20x better education than the one we left in public school.

You can bet some of the classes I am going to sneak in are about finance, business, and real life skills.
 
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Jonathan Polley

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As a teacher, there is a lot of good education out there. But a lot of bad too.

I would consider myself a good teacher as I teach the kids in my class very little in terms of content. What I do teach them are skills and the ability to solve a problem themselves. Not only is that a lot more enjoyable for them. But also it's much more useful. They might not have much interest in science. But they are interested in becoming more capable and more able.

The problem that I have comes from management as my classes do much worse at first. Because they are not bombarded with knowledge. So it seems as if they are falling behind. SO I get pressured, why is this happening etc.

Yet as time passes my students do much better and are far better equipped to learn for themselves at to tackle what ever life throws at them.

Point in case. Today I had a student in a class who two years ago could barely write a word equation for a chemical reaction. Today, I gave them a basic framework, reminded them of some knowledge they already had, gave them all the tools they needed. And had her writing half equations involving ions and electrons. She has developed the skills to tackle these problems for herself.

That is what education should be.
 

G-Man

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I feel the school system is so bad, that 2 of my children are home schooled and have been that way for 2+ years now.

We left one ( our 3rd child ) in public school because he was a junior in High School and he wanted to be with his "friends".

The 2 we home school are both in "middle school" so to speak and are getting 20x better education than the one we left in public school.

You can bet some of the classes I am going to sneak in are about finance, business, and real life skills.

My wife and I are considering this, although we learned to keep our mouth shut about it, because it turns out that wanting to educate your own child is very offensive to some people.

Mind if I ask what curriculum you're using @eliquid?


@Pilot35 if you can tell me all about pythagorean theorems, you clearly didn't go to an American high school :)
 
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rollerskates

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I have a degree in liberal arts, and I know you all make fun of that ;), but mine is a true liberal arts degree from a top college where the emphasis is on critical thinking. Most of modern education is horrible because no one is taught to think critically or reason, they are merely taught to regurgitate for standardized tests. And like someone said above, this creates havoc when they enter the real world. Post school, if someone asks the average person a question on say, current events, they will usually just regurgitate what they hear on the news (which is another wretched institution but don't get me started on that).

Thank goodness these days there are so many alternatives to regular public schools. I have a lot of relatives and friends involved in education and they are all bent on improving education for all! The charter movement that started in Phoenix is growing, and I really think there is a huge future in charters, especially the classical ones, mainly because they are teaching children to be able to think and there isn't any skill more valuable than that. :thumbsup:

In short, modern education sucks but educational entrepreneurs will save it, or at least create a generation of those who can think, because someone's got to lead the masses. :cool:
 

eliquid

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My wife and I are considering this, although we learned to keep our mouth shut about it, because it turns out that wanting to educate your own child is very offensive to some people.

Mind if I ask what curriculum you're using @eliquid?


@Pilot35 if you can tell me all about pythagorean theorems, you clearly didn't go to an American high school :)

Yes, once you do it all the school teachers will ask you what went wrong and why with a kind of attitude sometimes.

Currently we use the Alpha Omega program. We did the 100% online version last year and switched to the "books and paper" ( not sure thats the name, but its "offline" version ) this year.

My kids have enjoyed the offline version 10000x more. Its the same education, but they just like having the books more.

I think we pay $500 each year or so, but that's because we order the package for 3 kids. Will be cheaper if you have less kids.
 

mayana

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We homeschool, too. I've got three kids in homeschool right now, and it's great. It's freaking amazing as far as a schedule goes. Before, we had one kid in public school, one kid in a charter school, and another kid in a magnet school. So we were driving around all morning, and spending like 2 hours in the afternoon driving and waiting in car lines. Ridiculous. Plus, fighting with the teenage boy about homework and whatever.

Now, it's super relaxed all day. The oldest ones know exactly what they are supposed to do, and they do it because I let them pick their subjects. So my 9th grader got tired of environmental science and just wants to do chemistry all day. Fine with me! Plus, the oldest ones both have their own "small business". They both are learning about e-commerce and freelancing. It's amazing to watch them be so independent, making decisions and dealing with customers on their own.

I would not change it for anything, for the foreseeable future.
 
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G-Man

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making decisions and dealing with customers on their own.

That is super cool for someone that age. My 9th grade public school introduction to business was reading "the Jungle", and learning how business people are heartless tyrants that live to exploit people.
 

Invictus

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I think we pay $500 each year or so, but that's because we order the package for 3 kids. Will be cheaper if you have less kids.

Apologies for stepping off-topic (and possibly getting too personal), but is that close to the total of how much you pay? For some reason I had imagined that it cost much more, or that there were some sneaky government requirements.

Kids are still years away for me, but if I do become a parent, I'd like them to have a better education than I did.
 

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