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Is there a market for inventing languages?

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thewalkingtemple

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Use Case:
What if there was a way to ensure that your private journals remain private? You know, the journals that hold your deepest and darkest secrets? The kind of secrets that would embarass you enough to roll in your grave after your death if someone were to find your journal?

What if you could store very important information like your ledger (physical crypto wallet) keys in ways that no one other than you could understand?

What if you could take a note that complained about the smelly client sitting next to you, and he doesn't have a clue as to what you're upto?

What if?? The applications are many fold. You get the picture..

Background:
I speak and write three different languages. I work (currently) in a secretive field, and I wanted to find ways of taking notes, and collecting information that didn't come across as conspicuous. And I decided that I'd solve this problem for myself. The answer was to invent my own derived languages. That strange stormy night, when I was researching military cryptography and my innate skill to understand language as a base of technology is helping me solve this problem of mine. Now I take notes anywhere without giving a f*ck about anyone who's peeking or snooping.

The Product:
Know-how about how you could do this yourself in the form of a user-friendly field manual, or a course, or an e-book, or a book. I could go even bigger, and think very large scale.

But first...

Does anyone other than me give a f*ck?
That's my biggest question. I need to find an answer to this first before I invest any more time into this.
This post is my first venture into market testing the idea.

I'm eagerly interested in
a) If you guys would be interested enough to pay for such a product.
b) Your general feedback about the idea, and how you recommend going about it.
 

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Primeperiwinkle

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Can it be spoken?
Have you ever watched Star Trek? Ever heard of Klingon, Romulan, Ferengi, or Vulcan? People STILL learn those.

You could market this as a game for kids, a monthly deliverable they receive to encode/decode part of a mystery box or friendship club or hobby.

You could have it be a skill that DnD players need if they play that type of character.

I’m sitting here on my couch eating crisps and drinking a beer and I just came up with those three. The answer is yes, it sounds really cool. Just find a way to link the language to something ppl already love to do.
 

BizyDad

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Yes, there is a market. There are people who actually earn a living doing this already.

For example, Hollywood will pay people to create languages to bring various worlds to life.

I believe the gaming industry will do the same.

Here's some reading. The Process of Inventing Fictional Languages - President's Writing Awards

Also, pay attention to the sources in that article. Maybe you can get plugged into the community that the article refers to.

So there is a market, the next question is how do you make this a fast lane activity?
 

404profound

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If I were going to build a cloud-hosted journal app I'd just us an encryption algo like SHA-512. Not sure if your intent is to make the journal sharable, in which case it'd actually have to be human-readable, but in that case you're describing something other than a journal.
 

Dominik_M

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@thewalkingtemple I find this a funny idea and could imagine that some people would pay for something like this if advertised very good. I honestly wouldn’t.
@404profound SHA is, as the name says a hashing algorithm not an encryption algorithm.
I you were to encrypt data to be stored in the cloud you could use, dependent on your needs, asymmetric or symmetric encryption algorithms such as AES-128/256 or Curve25519.
 
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thewalkingtemple

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Can it be spoken?
Have you ever watched Star Trek? Ever heard of Klingon, Romulan, Ferengi, or Vulcan? People STILL learn those.

You could market this as a game for kids, a monthly deliverable they receive to encode/decode part of a mystery box or friendship club or hobby.

You could have it be a skill that DnD players need if they play that type of character.

I’m sitting here on my couch eating crisps and drinking a beer and I just came up with those three. The answer is yes, it sounds really cool. Just find a way to link the language to something ppl already love to do.
I haven't developed spoken languages yet; just the script, as I have not yet needed to communicate or share cryptic journal information with others yet.

I value your ideas, and realise that the spoken component could be key in stitching it into a game based product. Thanks for your suggestions @Primeperiwinkle
Yes, there is a market. There are people who actually earn a living doing this already.

For example, Hollywood will pay people to create languages to bring various worlds to life.

I believe the gaming industry will do the same.

Here's some reading. The Process of Inventing Fictional Languages - President's Writing Awards

Also, pay attention to the sources in that article. Maybe you can get plugged into the community that the article refers to.

So there is a market, the next question is how do you make this a fast lane activity?
Given my current state of work, your comment is GOLD in terms of the perspectives it brings me. It humbles my arrogance to say the least. I tracked one of the sources, who happens to have a full blown youtube channel that teaches how to create languages with short 5 minute episodes uploaded 5 years ago. He has done Google Talks. Yet, he has just 14.2K followers. I see @Primeperiwinkle 's comment here making a very worthy point, that it needs to be stitched into another product. The producer of this video series, for instance, never made it into a breakout youtube star, but was involved in languages like Dothraki and High Valerian from Game of Thrones. So, I assume his main source of income comes from his industrial clients.

While some of the soruces cited were my orignial inspiration for taking this route, I'll continue researching the other sources. I'm very curious to know how you came to the position of providing me with such specific feedback (which is very, very useful for me). Did you invest time in this area previously even before my post?
If I were going to build a cloud-hosted journal app I'd just us an encryption algo like SHA-512. Not sure if your intent is to make the journal sharable, in which case it'd actually have to be human-readable, but in that case you're describing something other than a journal.

@thewalkingtemple I find this a funny idea and could imagine that some people would pay fir something like this is advertised very good.
@404profound SHA is, as the name says a hashing algorithm not an encryption algorithm.
I you were to encrypt data to be stored in the cloud you could use, dependent on your needs, asymmetric or symmetric encryption algorithms such as AES-128/256 or Curve25519.

As far as digital encription goes, I see the current weakest link in the chain as the human component, and my solution aims to solve it at the human level (physical). Please let me know if my understanding here is wrong.

Based on this premise, I wanted to develop a technology that is non-digital. It's applications can be used for digial applications (for writing down keys / passwords for instance), but I am personally inclined keep the tech non-digital. Having said that, you guys represent part of the market, and I wish to continue listening to the market, and not get wound up in my ego. I'll introspect and go over what I can do based on your comments @404profound @Dominik_M
 

Tom H.

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I've actually considered this kind of thing because I have tons of personal notes and I've wanted to protect them da Vinci-style. Especially my handwritten notes. At one point I was learning shorthand for this purpose.

The solution for me eventually to just stop caring about it. If someone wants to read through my stack of notebooks, good for them.

Can you share an example of your secret language that you can use for taking notes?
 

thewalkingtemple

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I've actually considered this kind of thing because I have tons of personal notes and I've wanted to protect them da Vinci-style. Especially my handwritten notes. At one point I was learning shorthand for this purpose.

The solution for me eventually to just stop caring about it. If someone wants to read through my stack of notebooks, good for them.

Can you share an example of your secret language that you can use for taking notes?
Quite a few people with whom I spoke about this idea personally expressed similar intentions like you.
I think the fundamental thing I realised out of the process so far is that this idea appeals to the creative side of people, and more crucially, it appeals to kids. As a kid, I always wanted to invent my own language to secretly communicate with my friends. Giving the kids such a tool to form strong bonds with their friends appeals as a powerful use case for me.

Below, you find a piece of information in the language that I created for myself (EDIT: I did not create it from scratch, it is a derived language). It is just good enough to stop random people looking (physically) at it from being able to decipher it within any reasonably short time frame. But I think I'm still no competition for the big guns like google or a well drawn out linguistic analysis like what the archaeologists employ to decipher ancient languages. I'd expect tech giants like google to decipher this in minutes, if not, within half a day (if I am wrong about this expectation, I might be onto something bigger here).

1606024517006.png
 

George Appiah

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As far as digital encription goes, I see the current weakest link in the chain as the human component, and my solution aims to solve it at the human level (physical). Please let me know if my understanding here is wrong.

I also thought of digital cryptography when I read your post.

And I'm wondering where you see "human component" as the "weakest link" in this, and how a "physical" cypher solves this. (Note: I'm not saying the weakness does not exist. I'm just wondering where you see it in digital, but not physical, cryptography.)

On the broader topic, the US actually used a similar technique during WW2, except they used little-known native American languages. See: Code talker - Wikipedia
 

thewalkingtemple

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I also thought of digital cryptography when I read your post.

And I'm wondering where you see "human component" as the "weakest link" in this, and how a "physical" cypher solves this. (Note: I'm not saying the weakness does not exist. I'm just wondering where you see it in digital, but not physical, cryptography.)

On the broader topic, the US actually used a similar technique during WW2, except they used little-known native American languages. See: Code talker - Wikipedia
I consider digital cryptography more or less a solved problem for the common folk; at the very least, I havent' suffered any problems that need extra solving here yet. I'm not considering the problems being solved by current military technology development.

What I often find / come across is hackers who social engineer the information out of human beings (hence the weakest link). On a similar note, people who have lost their physical journals, scribbled notes inside wallets, etc. are at risk.

Let me use the Ledger Nano S (a crypto currency wallet) as one example. To sustain ownership of the device (and consequently to one's assets / tokens), one needs to store the following recovery list:

1606033834466.png

On the left of the image, you see the manufacturer offering their digital encryption solution. Their track record speaks for itself. What I'm trying to solve is (as just one possible example of application of concept) encrypting the physical sequence on the right, which the user could choose to store physically or capture as an image like the above.

About the reference to world war technology, I did mention in the OP about my inspiration from military technology. My inspiration came from a variety of approaches from different countries during WWII. While I've never seen this wikipedia page, it does not surprise me, as I don't consider myself a genius who's inventing something completely new. It was probably something some other human being developed at keast 50 years before me. I'm probably just reinventing a secret wheel.

Having said all that, the script I have posted above has 4 levels of encryption enciphered into it, and these levels are not simple for a normal human being to figure out without the help of a powerful processing system, and a large database of scripts. So in short, there's much more going on with the script I've posted that that meets the eye.

Also, based on the feedback I've received from all of you so far, I went to the drawing board last evening, and after some intense focus, I was able to achieve a fifth level of encryption, which gives me the confidence that my concept is now as close to impossible to decipher as it can get, when it comes to storing physically written information. I plan to test this confidence firstly on reddit, and post challenges. The only disadvantage with the fifth level of encryption that I've conceived is that it requires a fully developed adult brain to use. It is unfortunately not possible for children to use this. Let's see where this all goes. I'll keep this thread updated on any progress.
 
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George Appiah

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What I often find / come across is hackers who social engineer the information out of human beings (hence the weakest link).

I can see how this would be a problem with account recovery, but that is a whole different issue which is not related to this thread.

But for actual information storage (which is the subject of this thread), encryption at source, where you, the data owner, generates and maintains the encryption keys, solves this problem. I backup my data in the cloud, but it's all encrypted gibberish. And that's all hackers would have should they get hold of my stuff.

But, of course, not all out information can or should be stored digitally... and I perfectly understand the merit of what you're trying to do.

Good luck!
 

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thewalkingtemple

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I can see how this would be a problem with account recovery, but that is a whole different issue which is not related to this thread.

But for actual information storage (which is the subject of this thread), encryption at source, where you, the data owner, generates and maintains the encryption keys, solves this problem. I backup my data in the cloud, but it's all encrypted gibberish. And that's all hackers would have should they get hold of my stuff.

But, of course, not all out information can or should be stored digitally... and I perfectly understand the merit of what you're trying to do.

Good luck!
I see our discussion as completely relevant to this thread, @George Appiah. The main purpose of this thread is for me to listen to what you guys have to say. This is not about me defending my ideas. Therefore your critique is welcome, and I'm learning by engaging you in discussions. So I thank you for that!

As for digital encription, I have to admit that I'm just an end user there, and my knowledge is very, very basic. Therefore, my views are pretty basic as well.

My current solution revolves around physical text / script, but I'm actively taking into consideration, the feedback I've been recieving about a potential digital solution as well. For instance, what if someone doesn't have access to end-to-end encrypted email services, and wishes to send over information to another party without being tapped? I believe my solution can be digitised and scaled there.

And thank you for your wishes!

- Knock, knock!
- Who's there?
- FBI, we need an translator
- F***......
As soon as I see "Knock, Knock", I realise that it's a joke, but the rest of the joke has flown over my head. So you have to unscramble it for me so that I can understand it mate. Apologies for my poor sense of humour. :p
 
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Kid

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As soon as I see "Knock, Knock", I realise that it's a joke, but the rest of the joke has flown over my head. So you have to unscramble it for me so that I can understand it mate. Apologies for my poor sense of humour.
The knock part is the only part that is humorous.
Basically if you will create something that allows secret communication
FBI will come to you with "an offer" that you will have to accept.

Most of the time such communication channels would be used
by criminals so gov is stopping such attempts every time.
 

thewalkingtemple

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The knock part is the only part that is humorous.
Basically if you will create something that allows secret communication
FBI will come to you with "an offer" that you will have to accept.

Most of the time such communication channels would be used
by criminals so gov is stopping such attempts every time.
Thanks a lot for elaborating, mate. That adds another problem to the list that I have to solve if I am to go to the market with this.
I'm glad I created this thread! :D
 

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Had to think of shorthand... Shorthand alphabet - Google Search
Might not have encryption to the max, but it is something that could easily be adapted for encryption if you transpose or replace a few letters/symbols.
I studied cryptography during school 7-8 grade, in my spare time, so I'm familiar with the basic cipher/transposing/and some alternative solutions for cryptography, and made my homade version of an enigma machine... can be loads of fun :)
 

thewalkingtemple

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Had to think of shorthand... Shorthand alphabet - Google Search
Might not have encryption to the max, but it is something that could easily be adapted for encryption if you transpose or replace a few letters/symbols.
I studied cryptography during school 7-8 grade, in my spare time, so I'm familiar with the basic cipher/transposing/and some alternative solutions for cryptography, and made my homade version of an enigma machine... can be loads of fun :)
Thanks for sharing your little story man. It is the same emotion that's driving me on this one. Kids are generally intrigued by such concepts, before the script beats it out of them. Your own version of enigma? You've got to share more about it. I'm curious. :D
 

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