How does a culture survive when a whole generation refuses to work?

[UlmerHere]

They do NOT want to be their parents and work forever for nothing. Great opportunity.

Yes. There is simply a growing desire to be more in control of one's time and life, to be more free in a way. So this mentality is really not all bad.

 

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[Speculatooor]

There are no incentives anymore to work for the new generation. There is no retirement. Only increasing taxes, increasing inflation, increasing rent, increasing work pressure. Decreasing freedoms, decreasing everything good.

There is no loyalty or trust, corporations want to squeeze every inch of productivity out of you without rewarding for it, resulting in job hopping culture instead of promotions.

My grandparents: "Working was fun and games"
They actually had programs to deal with free-time for their early retirement, which is basically a ponzi scheme they created on the backs of next generations.

My parents: "Work used to be great 15-20 years ago"
Now they are getting squeezed by doing 2 jobs for 1, since there is no hurry to replace colleagues when they are gone when current employees can just work twice as hard. And inflation cuts into pay as well. Their retirements are getting cut.

Young generation sees this and thinks, is this what I want with my life? Work and the rewards is ... what is it exactly?

Work for what; your landlord and government? F*ck that.

The script is broken, and instead of looking for others ways (like this forum) they just opt-out.

 

[Vinz]

I work in an electronics big-name retail store
And the "manager" who handles the phones and PC department, works all day, mostly 10-12 hours days, and has barely more pay than a normal employee while having 10x the responsibility...
The store director gets paid just a little more than him...
Working 50-60 hours week, with more responsibility and THIS reward ?
Hell nah.
Jobs today are less fulfilling, paying, and more emotionally stressful, I agree that they squeeze every inch of productivity you have...
It's obvious that 15-20 years ago everyone was paid more, for less work , and you could get a job quickly without experience..
Everyone benefitted and took a lot of cash and bought a lot of useless shit..
So now the money is less and this generation has to pay with the abismal work environment we have...
Totally agree with @KAIZOS

 

[Anna13]

There are a few different things pushing this in my opinion as a 24 year old from Ireland.

Rent prices being so high especially in cities means younger people are more willing to live at home and earn less. Why bother moving into the city and having all your income hoovered up in rent costs. Many smart young people here on the forum are using this saved money to improve their lives and start businesses but the majority of people I know that live at home use this money for parties, drugs, trips abroad, fashion or social media flexing items.

Others are living at home with low COL expenses, making 1-2k monthly from a 'hustle' like personal training or an online business/freelancing then promoting themselves on social media and living a cool lifestyle traveling etc.. but they'll never own a home or save enough to progress.

Third category I have noticed are people who's wages wouldn't compare to anything mommy or daddy could give them. Earn a little bit of money from a hobby/hustle to keep them going but ultimately it's being topped up by the parents. In many cases this might not be a completely one sided relationship as the kids might be expected to work in a family business or take it over in time. Many type of young people in this scenario are pursuing arts/music/acting type of careers but they have the blue collar type businesses of their parents to fall back on (farming, industrial, retail, services, construction etc)

The final category are the stimmy check/crypto/nft homerunners. I know a good few people who made 50-100k during the bull run on these type of asset classes (2019-2021). They are living lavish now and going on lots of trips/flexing but the cash will run out eventually by 2023-2025.

Edit: Also cheap money is making everything accessible now. You can borrow lots of money to live nicely off now and delay having to do anything major with your life. Will be interesting to see what happens to these type people when interest rates rise. I'm talking about the HELOC people who release equity from their homes to pay for them or their kids lifestyles. Also, student loans - vacation loans, car loans, personal loans.

I hope the ones you know will not end up like the 2 I know, who are in their 40s now: one has 2 kids, lives at her parents‘ house still and treats them like they are her employees - they cook, clean and provide for her and her kids. The other has always worked so little, because mommy had paid him monthly allowance and so he never had the motivation. Guess what: now he even moved back into the house, because he knows he will get it when she dies. All he did his life until now is smoke weed and wait.

I guess it‘s: no pain, no motivation.

Isn‘t anyone telling them that when their parents’ house is so many years old, they will need money to repair stuff in the house??? Where will that money come from when their parents die?

 

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[Jon822]

I don't think it's targeted at "work" as a whole. When the Script allowed for a janitor to support himself, his wife, and 5 kids comfortably, the Slowlane is not only tempting but suitable for the vast majority of people. But when inflation rises up to the point where the median income is underwater or barely above the surface, that's when Slowlaners call out the Script on its bullshit.

For the majority of "anti-workers", it's not full-on, brain-dead communism support, but the realization that inflation has placed so much of the salary curve underwater that none of the Script's advice is even viable. Invest in the stock market? With what money? Own a house? It takes 5 gen-Z's to split the rent for one house. I'm not saying they have an excuse to whine and do nothing, it's just objectively more difficult to even get started when your head is barely above water. And that's their main complaint, at least the majority of what I've seen.

To reiterate, I'm not saying young workers can blame the economy for a lack of wealth mobility in the long term nor am I implying that the Slowlane is ideal or desirable when inflation is low enough. We all know the Slowlane is bullshit in any economy but even Slowlaners start to see it when the tide rises.

 

[Oso]

The problem isn't laziness. The problem is the people doing the actual work are being paid pennies while the people sitting on their asses make bank.

The problem isn't laziness. The problem is having an ego-centric, self-absorbed society that cares more about social class and status than basic compassion and empathy.

The problem isn't laziness. The problem is people have yet to realize and accept that until AI/robots replace us all, someone has to fill some position at literally every level of society in order for it to successfully operate.

The problem isn't laziness. The problem is companies whine about "company loyalty" while simultaneously ignoring the fact they expect an employee to be there for 10+ years before said employee receives a raise over 0.25$/hr. Despite the fact inflation quadruples every other day.

While it's their fault they are in these positions, as previously stated, these positions are required on a day-to-day basis. They aren't horrible people for wanting to make enough money to live a semi-decent life. They aren't horrible people for wanting to be treated with basic respect.

Y'all can blame laziness all you'd like, but as someone that spent the first half of their life working next to both blue and white collar people alike, I can guarantee you, laziness has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Edit: And this is ultimately the problem with people, especially Americans. Instead of having a legitimate conversation, you hear one extremist say, "I don't want to work anymore," and immediately assume that means everyone is lazy. America really needs to let go of the whole "the loudest one in the room is the one that's right" mentality.

Cheers.

 

[Onakosa]

I've been talking about this lately. Here in the UK it seems like working from home/flexi-working has become a human right, plus endless time off for what used to be perfectly normal life occurrences: pets dying, women's things, male partners supporting women with women's things etc etc. It does feel a little like things ground to a halt during Covid and haven't/won't go back. I hear a lot that it's really challenging for young people to find training and apprenticeship roles in certain careers (e.g. marketing - where I work) as there's no one in the office any more to teach them.

 

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[Anna13]

I've been talking about this lately. Here in the UK it seems like working from home/flexi-working has become a human right, plus endless time off for what used to be perfectly normal life occurrences: pets dying, women's things, male partners supporting women with women's things etc etc. It does feel a little like things ground to a halt during Covid and haven't/won't go back. I hear a lot that it's really challenging for young people to find training and apprenticeship roles in certain careers (e.g. marketing - where I work) as there's no one in the office any more to teach them.

That sounds awful. I hope it‘ll get back to „normal“ like before Covid. I thought people would leave the from home working thing, because they would become more lonely, but it seems they like to keep that… it‘s a little sad. In Germany many young people get sick and don‘t go to work because they have emotional problems like anxiety. Is this in the UK, too?

 

[HoneyBadger302]

Why is it sad that people prefer to work from home? Not everyone is an extrovert. Not everyone loves spending significant portions of their time (you know, that one thing we can NOT ever get back or make more of) commuting or wasting time on meaningless conversations in an office when they can accomplish just as much - if not more - working from home. Where they can get random little chores done on breaks or down time, freeing up their time off work to do the things they really value. And let's not get into the costs of commuting and being in an office more often than not, as those numbers can be quite significant.....and those jobs sure aren't going to pay that difference in the wages....

I think the companies trying to force a RTO just so they can micro manage the bodies that keep the chairs warm - who they will lay off without a thought - should be suffering from a workforce shortage. Most of those jobs may or may not pay enough where the minions can live on that one job (at least here (US) the vast majority now need to work multiple jobs just to stay afloat, and no, not because they're blowing money on designer 'stuff'), why would you want to sell such a huge portion of your life when you can't even manage the basics the Script tries to tell you you'll get?

The Script that is still being sold no longer works. When it worked, it was a lot easier to keep a quiet workforce happy to slowlane their lives and just accept "good enough." Now, as they figure out that the Script won't ever give them even enough for that, they are maximizing the few scraps they can get.

 

[Anna13]

Why is it sad that people prefer to work from home? Not everyone is an extrovert. Not everyone loves spending significant portions of their time (you know, that one thing we can NOT ever get back or make more of) commuting or wasting time on meaningless conversations in an office when they can accomplish just as much - if not more - working from home. Where they can get random little chores done on breaks or down time, freeing up their time off work to do the things they really value. And let's not get into the costs of commuting and being in an office more often than not, as those numbers can be quite significant.....and those jobs sure aren't going to pay that difference in the wages....

I think the companies trying to force a RTO just so they can micro manage the bodies that keep the chairs warm - who they will lay off without a thought - should be suffering from a workforce shortage. Most of those jobs may or may not pay enough where the minions can live on that one job (at least here (US) the vast majority now need to work multiple jobs just to stay afloat, and no, not because they're blowing money on designer 'stuff'), why would you want to sell such a huge portion of your life when you can't even manage the basics the Script tries to tell you you'll get?

The Script that is still being sold no longer works. When it worked, it was a lot easier to keep a quiet workforce happy to slowlane their lives and just accept "good enough." Now, as they figure out that the Script won't ever give them even enough for that, they are maximizing the few scraps they can get.

Yes you‘re right, for introverts or highly sensitive people it‘s better to work from home. I just thought about a really funny team I used to work with and though I myself am an introvert, most days it was good to be among these people and make jokes and talk while in the office. Work was actually more fun this way and there was a togetherness thing going on. I felt uplifted being in such a team. But well, because the competition was so high, the business went bankrupt and we all had to look for other jobs…

 

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[Onakosa]

That sounds awful. I hope it‘ll get back to „normal“ like before Covid. I thought people would leave the from home working thing, because they would become more lonely, but it seems they like to keep that… it‘s a little sad. In Germany many young people get sick and don‘t go to work because they have emotional problems like anxiety. Is this in the UK, too?

Yes, very much so. Everyone seems to have 'anxiety', 'depression', 'stress', or a general 'mental health issue' which they need time off for. Even in government, one of our senior MPs (Dominic Raab) was accused of "bullying" his (very well paid) staff when he asked them a question they should have known the answer to, and he got annoyed when they didn't. They said they felt "traumatised" by it - that's a direct quote. Every business seems to have a staff shortage, and good luck trying to get a doctor or hospital appointment. I do understand that people sometimes need time off, and some workplaces are pretty toxic, but at the same time we can't carry on like this. No economy can!

 

[Onakosa]

Why is it sad that people prefer to work from home? Not everyone is an extrovert. Not everyone loves spending significant portions of their time (you know, that one thing we can NOT ever get back or make more of) commuting or wasting time on meaningless conversations in an office when they can accomplish just as much - if not more - working from home. Where they can get random little chores done on breaks or down time, freeing up their time off work to do the things they really value. And let's not get into the costs of commuting and being in an office more often than not, as those numbers can be quite significant.....and those jobs sure aren't going to pay that difference in the wages....

I think the companies trying to force a RTO just so they can micro manage the bodies that keep the chairs warm - who they will lay off without a thought - should be suffering from a workforce shortage. Most of those jobs may or may not pay enough where the minions can live on that one job (at least here (US) the vast majority now need to work multiple jobs just to stay afloat, and no, not because they're blowing money on designer 'stuff'), why would you want to sell such a huge portion of your life when you can't even manage the basics the Script tries to tell you you'll get?

The Script that is still being sold no longer works. When it worked, it was a lot easier to keep a quiet workforce happy to slowlane their lives and just accept "good enough." Now, as they figure out that the Script won't ever give them even enough for that, they are maximizing the few scraps they can get.

But not everyone works in an office, do they? Some jobs are just not suited to WFH. Example: doctors' surgeries - getting an appointment to see your doctor is a real problem here right now. It's partly because most of them are working flexi-hours by right. Same with schools. Until last year, my children were being taught in classes with two or three different teachers for the same reason: one was working only Mondays, one was working Tuesdays and Fridays, and one was working Weds and Thursdays. It **is** a problem because there's no continuity. It's confusing for the kids and difficult if you're a parent and want to speak to a teacher about something. No corporate client-facing business would have someone in charge of a major account if they were only there for a fraction of the working week. Even in office jobs, I've consulted with remote teams and it's just not the same. If you need to work as a team, and have discussions, with your work feeding into each other, which is the case with most marketing teams, then you NEED to be with each other for at least some of the time. Last year I had an ongoing (non-contentious) legal case that ended up taking a good three months longer than it should have done because - tada! - the lawyer I was dealing with was only working two days a week.

 

[Onakosa]

Why is it sad that people prefer to work from home? Not everyone is an extrovert. Not everyone loves spending significant portions of their time (you know, that one thing we can NOT ever get back or make more of) commuting or wasting time on meaningless conversations in an office when they can accomplish just as much - if not more - working from home. Where they can get random little chores done on breaks or down time, freeing up their time off work to do the things they really value. And let's not get into the costs of commuting and being in an office more often than not, as those numbers can be quite significant.....and those jobs sure aren't going to pay that difference in the wages....

I think the companies trying to force a RTO just so they can micro manage the bodies that keep the chairs warm - who they will lay off without a thought - should be suffering from a workforce shortage. Most of those jobs may or may not pay enough where the minions can live on that one job (at least here (US) the vast majority now need to work multiple jobs just to stay afloat, and no, not because they're blowing money on designer 'stuff'), why would you want to sell such a huge portion of your life when you can't even manage the basics the Script tries to tell you you'll get?

The Script that is still being sold no longer works. When it worked, it was a lot easier to keep a quiet workforce happy to slowlane their lives and just accept "good enough." Now, as they figure out that the Script won't ever give them even enough for that, they are maximizing the few scraps they can get.

Just to clarify, I do completely agree that some jobs work just fine remotely! I think my issue with this one is more particular to the UK/Europe. WFH has become entrenched and it's just not practical for a lot of jobs, hence everything (literally everything!) seems to have a backlog right now. Also, per my earlier comment, I hear a lot from young people who can't find e.g. apprenticeships and training-focused roles as there are far fewer workers available to support them.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I don’t have negative experience with work (corporate employee role) other than lack of autonomy and lack of asymmetric financial upside.

After-all there is guaranteed income and industry experience gained at no additional cost.

It just shouldn’t be a permanent phase in life where you are stuck with no possible financial upside opportunity.