Hello from Denver - self publishing success

[ROBugatti]

By the way, I've found this thread to be both very informative and very USEFUL! I think just hearing others' success stories gives people a real boost to get things going.

 

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[ROBugatti]

OK, sorry that I keep posting and answering my own questions, but thought I'd save anyone the trouble of looking it all up.

So the general rule of thumb is probably between 250-300 words per Kindle page, so on the low end using 8K words that could be as short as 25 pages, up to about 80 pages. This helps when looking at the books out there. A lot I see at about 275-300 pages, which (very roughly) is about 80K words, at least in the categories I'm looking at (and I've looked at about 6 so far).

I did find a category (or really a sub-category) that has some independent books that are months or even years old and a lot are still under 10K in rank, many around 5-6K, so they are selling a lot of books daily. And some of these books are ranked high in several categories that are quite different, so you may be high in Fantasy, but also in Horror or whatever (those aren't the real categories, just an example) in a sub-category.

I'm going about this in a slightly different way, but the end result is the same - I guess. I have an idea for a novella - actually a series of shorter books. It's kinda hard to put a definite category stamp on it because it crosses many boundaries. I've looked in the categories that I think it best fits and in some of those there are some 4-6K ranked indie books, but in other categories there aren't as many big sellers. Since Amazon puts you where you best fit, even though you can change the category in KDP, it's hard to use this kind of research to effectively say that you're in a good selling category. And I think the OP mentioned that - it is just a guesstimate.

From my research, though, it looks like there are books that are years old that are still ranked well under 10K in categories that I think my book series would fit very well into. Next I will do a little keyword research like he suggests and see what comes up on the Amazon Kindle store to see what kind of demand is there. Basically, if I see keywords related to my idea/niche, then it might give me the OK to move forward. Hard to really say how much search traffic these terms get at all, but at least SOMEONE is searching for it! Or not...so I guess if the keywords I think my book relates to don't show up at all then I might abandon this project....we'll see.

 

[Pinnacle]

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/we...-interesting-tool-research-demand-amazon.html

Any thoughts, Held for Ransom, as it relates to writing?

 

[Held for Ransom]

New and very interesting tool to research demand on Amazon!

Looks promising! This is certainly something I have been looking to integrate into what I do. I know what some of the technical challenges are to this so congrats to them for putting something together. I'll definitely be tinkering with it. Thanks!

 

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[Texan]

I've read and reread this thread several times-good stuff! Held for Ransom, did you read a lot of books in your niche prior to writing for that niche?

 

[Held for Ransom]

I did and I still do on a regular basis. I sort of had to because I really didn't know anything about how to write at all. But, even if you do, it's probably something that you should do. I feel like it helps me understand what the reader wants.

 

[KirbyRaymund]

have you been able to sustain the sales to this day?

 

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[KirbyRaymund]

So 8K-20K words (novellas)...about how many pages does that come out to be? I'm looking at a fiction genre right now and I see books that are 275-300 pages, which is really a full novel. I like your idea of 8-20K words, especially since I already have some experience in writing short stories. This would really be a small step up from that. I've got 1000 ideas in my head (and on paper) and just wondered about how many pages in Word this will be. I guess I could figure it out on my own (I'll Google it and see what I can find), but just thought I'd ask you as well.

i did ghostwriting once for a full novel... i was asked for 90,000 words. it went up to about 275 pages.

 

[Held for Ransom]

have you been able to sustain the sales to this day?

Uhhhhm, down pretty good from last month.

But, that's not that unusual only because (1) my bestsellers have cooled off and (2) I haven't put much new out until last weekend. But, that one is beginning to pick up and I have one more scheduled for next weekend so we'll see if I can recapture some momentum. It usually takes me about 10-14 days to really gauge how well something is going to do.

I've also transitioned to longer works in the hopes of keeping sales alive for longer periods of time so that will be another factor I am evaluating.

i did ghostwriting once for a full novel... i was asked for 90,000 words. it went up to about 275 pages.

Wow, that's something. Sounds like this is right up your alley man. Put that talent to use for yourself and start shipping those e-books out!

 

[KirbyRaymund]

Uhhhhm, down pretty good from last month.

But, that's not that unusual only because (1) my bestsellers have cooled off and (2) I haven't put much new out until last weekend. But, that one is beginning to pick up and I have one more scheduled for next weekend so we'll see if I can recapture some momentum. It usually takes me about 10-14 days to really gauge how well something is going to do.

I've also transitioned to longer works in the hopes of keeping sales alive for longer periods of time so that will be another factor I am evaluating.


Wow, that's something. Sounds like this is right up your alley man. Put that talent to use for yourself and start shipping those e-books out!

thanks for the encouragement man. after i finished the book, i actually didn't want to let it go. so i decided that the next book i am writing will be for me. and i am on chapter 2. hurray!

 

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[Dirk Pitt]

Great success story in the making, kudos to you!

What is your repeat customer rate?

 

[Held for Ransom]

so i decided that the next book i am writing will be for me.

That's awesome bro... Hope you sell a ton of them!

 

[Held for Ransom]

What is your repeat customer rate?

Ahhhh, I only wish I knew... Like everything else at Kindle-related at Amazon, that's a black box. No information in that regard. I'd guess that to some extent, there are repeat buyers but it's impossible to know who they are or where they come from.

Yet another violation of the Commandment of Control!

 

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[gelsicapital]

Hey, Held for Ransom :eusa_clap:

Would you mind sharing what software you use to create your e-books?

 

[Held for Ransom]

Hey there,

I use Microsoft Word to write it and then use a free program to convert into the proper format for Kindle and other platforms. It's called Mobipocket.com.

 

[gelsicapital]

Thank you Great program I just downloaded it!

Hey how can you tell The Sales Rank on Amazon? For a particular book. How many copy's sold etc.

also do you use KDP Select?

Thanks in advance.

 

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[Held for Ransom]

Hey how can you tell The Sales Rank on Amazon? For a particular book.

Yeah, for any title, just scroll down to the Product Details and look for the "Amazon Best Sellers Rank". The lower the number, the better.

For books that sell very well, they also have ranks within the categories that they are published. You will see those below listed below the Best Sellers Rank as in the image.

How many copy's sold etc.

This is a matter of debate and speculation. Unfortunately, Amazon makes no definitive formula available to figure this out. I have come across a few and I do use one although I have found that it underestimates by quite a bit. I discussed it earlier in this thread.

also do you use KDP Select?

Yes, I did once but I don't at this time.

 

[gelsicapital]

Thanks again for sharing this info you really have me motivated:icon_super:

 

[Held for Ransom]

Glad to hear it! FWIW, my sales keep climbing upwards - at least for the time being. I have an outside shot at $20,000 (probably more like $17,500 - $18,000ish) in sales this month.

In addition, I had my first title ever break the 1,000 rank mark in the Kindle Store (it's gotten as low as the mid 800s) so the opportunity is still there if you figure out what the reader wants and give it to them.

 

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[Rawr]

Hell yeah hfr!!!

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Glad to hear it! FWIW, my sales keep climbing upwards - at least for the time being. I have an outside shot at $20,000 (probably more like $17,500 - $18,000ish) in sales this month.

Woo hoo! So awesome to hear.

 

[ChickenHawk]

What a thought-provoking thread! Congratulations on your success, and thanks for the inspiration. WOW.

It really has me thinking. I've written two-plus novels, but didn't want to self-publish, because the general advice was always, "once you self-publish, you'll ruin your chances of a traditional publisher taking you on." But you've got me rethinking this in a couple ways.

1. Money-Making Potential. I personally know traditionally published authors who make almost nothing, even though they have agents and a publishing house backing them. Your earnings are blowing them out of the water. With success like this, it really don't matter if a traditional publisher ever expresses an interest in your work. You've carved out a niche, and thus, don't need them.

2. Word Counts. Man, what a thought-provoking idea, focusing on shorter-lengths rather than long traditional novels.

That's so true, too, about Kindle books. I buy those $2.99 novels all the time, figuring, "Heck, it's cheaper than a mocha, even if I don't like it."

I like your philosophy about negative reviews. With a lot of people, an initial bad review would've stopped them right there. But you stayed focused. That's a good lesson. I've participated in writing groups. Writers can have incredibly thin skins. That's just one of many reasons you're succeeding where so many have failed.

Speed +

 

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[dru-man]

First off, thanks a lot for your inspirational post and all the great info you've shared here.

I'm a fellow writer, and I must say that I was very encouraged when MJ's book mentioned writing as a possible road to the fastlane – not that it would have stopped me from pursuing it if he left it out, but I've also always been an entrepreneur, and money is thus very important for me as well.

I've always known I'd get around to it sooner or later, but I guess I saw it as something I'd pursue once I was more set financially, mostly due to the perceived difficulty of making it in the business.

Anyways, seeing your post in here with your great results has been yet even more encouraging, and I check in here regularly to see if you've posted anything else.

I've envisioned becoming a writer as early as seven years old, and all throughout school and life afterward I've had people rant and rave about my work. I've already written my first novel, and it's been sitting on the back burner for years. I think I could write a better book, but I also think it has potential – multiple people have told me it made them cry and at least one reader, an avid bookworm, told me it's one of the best books he's ever read.

One of my major goals this year is putting this first book up onto Kindle, and I'm starting one last redraft today before touching up the formatting and getting it up – I've already had a nice cover designed as well.

Your post has really re-energized me, and I've been thinking for some time now that the window for easy self-publishing on Amazon might get smaller at some point. I personally believe now is the time to get in and build an audience before the bar is raised.

I do have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. As a writer, I was really blown away by how fast you're churning out these books – I believe you said one a week? No offense, of course, but don't you think you're sacrificing a lot on quality there?

I'm a full-time freelancer, so I know what it takes to produce a ton of content fast, but redrafting is where the real magic happens in a manuscript. I would imagine a month to be a far more realistic cycle for a book.

Do you think your pace is hurting your chances of putting out that book with the potential to really go big and make you rich? Also, do you think similar income results in a similar time frame could be achieved writing higher-quality, longer books?

2. Blogs are obviously a great tool for a non-fiction author, but can you see it being effective for a fiction writer? As you mentioned, many readers become followers of your work if they like your stuff, so I could see it being a good place to expand on that relationship. If you think it could be effective, what would be your idea of going about it in a smart, systematic way?

3. Have you considered uploading to several retailers - like Nook, for example - as well as Amazon, so you can have your work more widely available? Does Amazon still allow that? And how about making your books available through print-on-demand as well? I'd imagine that would open up possibilities for additional distribution.

4. How steady and passive is your current income? Would it take a huge dip if you stopped writing, and if so, would it at least continue paying a good deal of the bills for years to come? Or is it just something you always have to plug away at to keep the ball rolling?

I realize that you probably don't see yourself as an expert yet, but based on your results, I'm very impressed and value your opinion on the above. Thanks a lot for any thoughts you want to share, and I look forward to your future posts.

By the way, are you part of the Kindle Book Club at the Warrior Forum? Your systematic approach seems very similar to what they're doing.

Talk Soon,
James

 

[Held for Ransom]

It really has me thinking. I've written two-plus novels, but didn't want to self-publish, because the general advice was always, "once you self-publish, you'll ruin your chances of a traditional publisher taking you on." But you've got me rethinking this in a couple ways.

Hmmm, I can't say whether this is accurate or not. In a PM to someone else, the subject of publishers came up. The thing with me is that I have very little doubt that I would ever be accepted by a regular publisher without having to do a lot of things I just don't want to do.

At the same time, having a publisher can open a lot of doors that self-publishing cannot so you'd have to think about what your own goals are. Mine are pretty simple. Entertain as many people as I can and make a ton of cash doing it. Jokes aside, I will probably never have a publisher but I never wanted to be a writer anyway so I it just doesn't matter to me. If I get one someday, that's cool, if I don't, no worries.

Even so, there are examples of self pubs that get picked up by big publishers. I think it pretty much comes down to how popular you become. If you sell enough of anything, they will come calling. So, I think you should do whatever you are comfortable with but I'd say to at least get as educated as you can about self-pubbing as well. You never know, you could be shutting yourself out of tens of thousands of dollars in royalties.

And, with Amazon you'll get those book monies in sixty days, not six months...

1. Money-Making Potential. I personally know traditionally published authors who make almost nothing, even though they have agents and a publishing house backing them. Your earnings are blowing them out of the water. With success like this, it really don't matter if a traditional publisher ever expresses an interest in your work. You've carved out a niche, and thus, don't need them.

That's interesting to hear. But, I also know of many, many more people (even some lurking here) that blow me out of the water. Like, it's not even close. The one thing we all have in common is 100% self publishing. I think that self-pubbing gives you instant feedback on your market. You can continually adapt your writing, your keywords, your covers, etc. You can constantly test and refine everything you do. I firmly believe that anyone can do this. It isn't easy by any stretch but it is totally possible.

In fact, my wife has recently decided to give this a shot as well. With her, at first, I think this kind of got lumped in with other things I've done which have produced marginal results. Because really for the first 4 or 5 months, my results were marginal here as well. But, things have changed significantly and if we could both do as well as I am, well, then this does start to look more Fastlane. $50,000, $100,000 months are definitely possible - it happens every single day.

Anyway, we'll see how well all of my blustering about how anyone can do it holds up.

2. Word Counts. Man, what a thought-provoking idea, focusing on shorter-lengths rather than long traditional novels.

More accurately, I would say write the length that is expected for your genre/sub genre. In other words, if the average Kindle length of bestsellers in your niche is 200 pages and you crank out a 50 pager, you will probably catch flack for it. I don't know if that makes sense but basically it's just like everything else I try to do - what the market expects.

I like your philosophy about negative reviews.

Actually, it's more J.A. Konrath's view that I just adopted.

With a lot of people, an initial bad review would've stopped them right there. But you stayed focused. That's a good lesson. I've participated in writing groups. Writers can have incredibly thin skins. That's just one of many reasons you're succeeding where so many have failed.

It's probably part of it. But, I think the fact that I came into this with zero expectations and zero preconceived beliefs about what is/isn't possible is really what has helped me the most. And, the better I do, the more it helps me to continue to just stay in that mindframe. If there's one thing I could say to someone who has always wanted to write is to just research well, write and continue to refine as you go using sales and returns as the only objective measure of success or failure.

I have an interesting story in that regard. On Facebook recently, I noticed that one of my aunts has recently revealed that she has always wanted to be a writer. In fact, she has posted all the workshops she's been attending for the past several years, connections she's making in the industry and on and on.

Guess how many books she's published?

I know you already know the answer...

Yep. Zero.

Anyway, after some deliberation, I've decided to reach out to her since we are in a closely-related niche. My hunch is that there will be a lot of excitement, questions, back and forth and the like but in the end, she probably won't deviate from her path. Of course, my hope is that I am wrong about that but the more I see and read about all the mental barriers writers have about what's going on today, the more convinced I am that being self published is the best path for me personally.

 

[Held for Ransom]

First off, thanks a lot for your inspirational post and all the great info you've shared here.

No problem, happy to share!

I'm a fellow writer, and I must say that I was very encouraged when MJ's book mentioned writing as a possible road to the fastlane – not that it would have stopped me from pursuing it if he left it out, but I've also always been an entrepreneur, and money is thus very important for me as well.

I've always known I'd get around to it sooner or later, but I guess I saw it as something I'd pursue once I was more set financially, mostly due to the perceived difficulty of making it in the business.

Anyways, seeing your post in here with your great results has been yet even more encouraging, and I check in here regularly to see if you've posted anything else.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. In fact, I would be lying if I wasn't still thinking about things besides writing as a fallback. It's incredibly volatile and fraught with an uncertain future. Not to mention the fact that Amazon is basically in control of all of it. I don't want people to think that I'm just kicking back here and relying on writing 100% as my Fastlane. But at the same time I am doing my best to make the most of the opportunity as long as it exists - I'd be an idiot not to do that.

Your post has really re-energized me, and I've been thinking for some time now that the window for easy self-publishing on Amazon might get smaller at some point. I personally believe now is the time to get in and build an audience before the bar is raised.

Curious... What do you think/imagine is going to happen? I'm not saying this is inaccurate, I'm just wondering what you mean.

1. As a writer, I was really blown away by how fast you're churning out these books – I believe you said one a week? No offense, of course, but don't you think you're sacrificing a lot on quality there?

Just to be clear, it's more like one every couple of weeks.

Lots of 1-star reviews would confirm you are correct. In fact, I think there's a writing term for me... a hack? But, then when I login into my KDP account, I get a different view on reality. That's the one I care about. I have an average return rate of around 5% which means (to me) that approximately 95% of readers think that the books are of good enough quality to not return them.

All that said, I think your perception is fairly common but, ironically, only among writers.

That's because, if you think about it, the reader has no idea how long it took me to put something together. There's some great reading I'd recommend in this regard... The first is an e-book called, "Killing the Sacred Cows of Publishing". These two things will help anyone who walks around with these sorts of limiting beliefs in their mind.

I'm a full-time freelancer, so I know what it takes to produce a ton of content fast, but redrafting is where the real magic happens in a manuscript. I would imagine a month to be a far more realistic cycle for a book.

*shrug* I don't see anything about this as particularly magical. I don't mean that in a disparaging way towards your comment so please don't take it that way.

I just mean that I have a formula - a gameplan - for each book I write. I execute it, check for grammatical/spelling errors and ship it out. That's pretty much it.

So, for me, it's a couple of weeks from start to finish.

2. Blogs are obviously a great tool for a non-fiction author, but can you see it being effective for a fiction writer? As you mentioned, many readers become followers of your work if they like your stuff, so I could see it being a good place to expand on that relationship. If you think it could be effective, what would be your idea of going about it in a smart, systematic way?

Uhhm yeah, I have a website. Mostly I use it for redirection for my Amazon affiliate links from my back matter. I post links to related works in the back of each book I publish and then when people click on it, I earn affiliate commissions. Pretty common stuff.

Secondarily, I use it for people to sign up to my mailing list. As far as how to do it... I use a self-hosted Wordpress install with Aweber as my e-mail list manager. Pretty standard really.

3. Have you considered uploading to several retailers - like Nook, for example - as well as Amazon, so you can have your work more widely available? Does Amazon still allow that? And how about making your books available through print-on-demand as well? I'd imagine that would open up possibilities for additional distribution.

I upload everywhere I can. Not sure what you mean about Amazon "allowing" it. I own all the rights to my work. I think you might be referring to the KDP Select Program. And yes, if you participate in that, they only allow you to publish your work at Amazon for the duration that you are enrolled. Those are set at increments of 90 days.

As far other other channels, POD/audio books, I haven't done any of that. I'm just sticking with what has worked for me thus far. Perhaps at some point, I'll look into that stuff but I haven't yet so I can't speak as to how effective it is/isn't.

Even so, Amazon is still 90% of my sales. It's pretty much that way for everyone - they want to take over the world with the Kindle. Judging by my sales, they appear to be right on track.

4. How steady and passive is your current income? Would it take a huge dip if you stopped writing, and if so, would it at least continue paying a good deal of the bills for years to come? Or is it just something you always have to plug away at to keep the ball rolling?

Hmmm, it isn't passive but basically I work about 2.5 - 3 weeks per month on all this (in terms of actual working hours). But, I have been off since the 26th of May and I won't be writing again until next week so that's about 3 weeks off - not bad...

Now, if I was to have a monster hit (inside the Top 100 on Kindle store), I could afford to have a bit more time but even then, you still have to write again at some stage. So while it isn't passive, it's a lot easier than going to a job.

I realize that you probably don't see yourself as an expert yet, but based on your results, I'm very impressed and value your opinion on the above. Thanks a lot for any thoughts you want to share, and I look forward to your future posts.

I hope that it's useful. It helps me to reply to all of this stuff.

By the way, are you part of the Kindle Book Club at the Warrior Forum? Your systematic approach seems very similar to what they're doing.

I am not, no. Can you PM me a link so I can look into it? It might be nice to chat with some others that are doing this in a similar manner and seeing good results. Sometimes, it can seem like you are in a bit of a vacuum!

Thanks for the great questions!

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Actually, it's more J.A. Konrath's view that I just adopted.

What is that exactly? I didn't see that posted.

Thanks for your thread, it's kinda turned into an AMA -- I'm so excited to have some fellow self-publishing folks on board!

 

[Held for Ransom]

What is that exactly? I didn't see that posted.

On his blog...

In the bit I was referring to he says...

Get Over Yourself

I have turned off Google Alerts, and don't Google my name or my pen names.

I don't go on message boards.

I don't read my book reviews.

I don't care what people are saying about me, good or bad, in blogs or on Twitter or in the media.

There will always be people who don't like you, and don't like your books.

Ignore them.

Trust me, it is liberating to be free of the opinions of strangers. We all need to focus on our writing. Because the millions of readers out there don't care about your blog. They aren't searching for you on Twitter and avoiding your books based on the comments of others. They aren't taking one star reviews seriously.

It's very easy to obsess in this business. But I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that obsession helps careers.

The thing that I have seen, over and over, is people finding success by writing good books.

I really think it is possible to make a very nice living by writing and not worrying about anything else.

We all want to believe we're doing something good for our careers, so we abuse social media, buy ads, rigorously defend our good name, cultivate media contacts, make appearances, and celebrate our own very minor celebrity.

Let it all go. Spend your time working on your books. That's the only thing that really matters, and the only thing you have control over.

Thanks for your thread, it's kinda turned into an AMA -- I'm so excited to have some fellow self-publishing folks on board!

Thanks man, I hope it's useful to some folks!

 

[Cosmicgirl]

Great thread, thanks for sharing

 

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[deevan]

Great thread. Thanks so much. Do you do any marketing of your books (goodreads/library thing ) ?

 

[LeungJan]

Thanks for posting this, a ton of great information and I really like how lucid your writing is - it gives a real insight into your thought process; a same feeling I had when I read MJ's book.

You mentioned earlier about setting up the book as a funnel and that you have a website, could you explain this in detail? Do you simply include your website on the book cover, twitter? Or do you put something more specific like get in touch @..

Thanks