Education System FAIL!!!

[Runum]

guys...
8 min video about the American school system and its roots...

what do you think?

YouTube - The System

If you would like comments, it would be customary for you to express your opinion first since you brought it up. To fail to do so makes one look like they are baiting the members for a debate rather than a chance to exchange ideas and opinions.

 

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[Paul Gallo]

@ Runum - new to the forum- thanks for pointing that out. if I make some mistake please forgive me.

I think the video is spot on....I feel we lack the skills to think critically-
we are trained to follow the masses, get a good job, and hope and pray for the best.
With that said, I do feel school provides solid baseline skills, reading, writing, etc etc....
as rcardin mentioned above... the system produces non-thinkers, that's the end result. So yes, big Fail for the education system overall.

 

[Runum]

I think the education system is no different than anything else in life. You get out what you put in.

I also think that the education system works in some places better than others.

In addition, I believe the masses do want someone to lead them and give them the answers. Not everyone is a free thinker, leader, or entrepreneur.

 

[oddball]

I'm disappointed with the schooling in NY, I can't comment elsewhere because I haven't gone. In high school I had 1, one, uno, only a single teacher, I would say did an outstanding teaching job. She was old school, most hated her. Things were done by the book, there was no time to goof off because there was so much to cover. She would compare us to other teachers classes, we were always way ahead of them but only where we had to be to finish everything in time. At the end of the year, I didn't study for the regents much and still got a 94.

So that's 1 teacher out of the how many I had over the years? That's just not good. I don't mean all my teachers were bad but none came close to her level. (btw, I graduated in 09).

Now I am in college, and again not happy with the teachers. I'm all for hiring foreign teachers but make sure they speak English. When you have a teacher ask the class, "what is a quiz?" You know something is wrong. When I have to spend so much time listening to each word to understand what they just said, there is something wrong. When a kid comes to your school for a program and says hes retreated in his learning because the teachers are so bad, something is wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

 

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[lexcan]

runum, very interesting POV.



My question is. How can we turn that 1% into 10%. And then into 50%?

You being apart of the system directly, is there a way to increase the amount of interest a child has in learning, not in any particular field, just in general.

I still dont know if the internet, or Google, has increased or decreased that number. I know I learn a lot more everyday by having google at my fingertip whenever my brain says "I wonder" but I also find myself being distracted much easier.

Like MJ would say ... I smell a biz-op somewhere around here! :banana:

- You are totally right to say that there is a biz opp here. Check out the TED Talk on the KHAN Academy, precisely addressing some of the issues that we are all voicing here. He's doing it as a non-profit, altruistic reason's or not, I think he's onto something with the School's in California! Check it out, even adults can self-learn! Amazing resource, all in bite sized 12 min youtube portions!

His idea is to transform teaching from an impersonal one to many approach to a one to one, where the homework portion of learning becomes the schoolwork, and the teacher instruction is done online at your own pace in a self learning environment!

 

[Paul Gallo]

@Lexcan -
KHAN academy is an great resource, i forgot about it until you mentioned it.
the underlying root to being successful with the Khan academy or learning in general is the desire to learn-
how can we bring that to our schools? Now its just learning by rote....

 

[tradeyoung]

Performed extremely well in high school...Earned a full ride merit scholarship to college...Ended my final full semester with a 3.8 gpa before I DROPPED OUT!!! My fervor for entrepreneurship and learning through self-study outgrew the formal classroom. Entrepreneurship is the only plan.

 

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[MCD]

I agree completely! Last month in earth science we learned how to use polaris as a guide on the ocean. Wasn't that something that Christopher Columbus did? I wish we learn important things like economics and entrepreneurship, but sadly we don't.

 

[DeletedUser394]

I'll be attending University (MIT hopefully) for a few reasons;

1. Free. I don't have to pay a cent of tuition.

2. Social Aspect. It's an experience and a time to meet great friends.

3. Challenge. I want to take complex physics and mathematics. I want to be challenged intellectually.

4. Ego. Even though I know that success is just as likely without a degree, (and that a degree brings no promise of success), I want that plaque with my name on it, and those initials after my last name to be printed on my business cards.

5. My mother never finished school, so it means a lot to her that I finish. So I may as well.

6. Not to mention the reality that not every entrepreneur will succeed, and that most will fail.

So I'd like to have a backup of a $100K/year soul-crushing corporate job, rather than having to go back to an $8/hour fast food waste of my life.

I have no plans of failing, and will try until I die, but it's always good to have a Plan B.

 

[dexta]

Again, IMO, I believe if the private sector took over education, we would see a much higher quality of education due to the efficiencies entrepreneurs always create.

...

in addition, the public schools could be auctioned off to local entrepreneurs and the kids could continue to go to the same schools. this would generate revenue from selling the real estate and ongoing property taxes as the private sector would now own the RE. this could be a huge boost in govt revenues and would be hugely benefiical to the public as long as the tax rate was reduced to take out the public school education from the budgets.

I couldn't agree more. Any institution that must survive against competition will strive to do things "better than the next guy." Quality will go up, prices will remain good enough for parents, and those who have no interest in education for whatever purpose don't have to worry about unnecessary taxes or anything. It's pure win-win, in my book..

EDIT: re-read my post and found it sounding a bit naive. I should clarify, People who get into the "school business" for profit may not necessarily make the education any better, but the demand from parents for better education at better prices can be a good motivation for school owners/operations to step up their game, which in the end does benefit students, and in the long run, society. General school success can be based off of things like standardized test results. In the beginning, I can see many schools being low quality, but as time passes, they will be forced to develop, or else parents will send their kids somewhere else.

 

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[Pete799p]

Private school being cheaper then public school demonstrates the real problem with the behemoth government. However, I do not believe the problem can be fixed by complete privatization of the school system. For profit schools will eventually lead to higher prices and lower quality. Look at walmart.

I think that every career school politician should be fired. School bureaucracy should be eliminated to cut costs and mandated crap curriculum should be eliminated. Teachers should be free to teach what they think is best and if parents do not like it they should be able to place their kids somewhere else. The best teachers should be given the biggest class rooms so they can impact the most people. If you are a shitty teacher then nobody will take your classes and then you will be out of a job. When I was in high school the only class we got to choose our teacher for was gym. But they capped the classes so somebody inevitable got stuck with a bad teacher. Coincidentally they were always the last to fill. One of the teachers was so bad that a petition was sent out to have her removed and in response they moved her to North Campus instead of firing her. Natural selection. We could take this further and base a teachers salary on how many students he impacts instead of how long he has been teaching. Ten-yeared teachers who cost a lot of money and no longer care because it is almost impossible to fire them would become a thing of the past. Teachers who fail to inspire their students and continue to treat them like crap will not be paid the same as a teacher who pores his hart and sole into his curriculum with the hopes that his students will leave his class better then when they came in. I have experience with the best and worst teachers and have found that no matter what the subject a good teacher can make it a good class.

It's kind of funny, my dad to this day still tells me my problem with school was that I went to school expecting to learn something useful instead of playing the "game".

 

[Shad0w]

The school system is just a bunch of bullcrap.

High school has taught me absolutely nothing so far. I either knew it or forgot it.

They give you all the formulas in math but they dont teach you whats actually behind it. How to use it in the future, the history behind it, etc.

It's just remember this, get the grade, and move on.

I suggest reading John Taylor Gatto's "Wepaons of mass instruction". This book opened my eyes on education the way MJ's book opened my eyes on money.

 

[Runum]

Private school being cheaper then public school demonstrates the real problem with the behemoth government. However, I do not believe the problem can be fixed by complete privatization of the school system. For profit schools will eventually lead to higher prices and lower quality. Look at walmart.

I think that every career school politician should be fired. School bureaucracy should be eliminated to cut costs and mandated crap curriculum should be eliminated. Teachers should be free to teach what they think is best and if parents do not like it they should be able to place their kids somewhere else. The best teachers should be given the biggest class rooms so they can impact the most people. If you are a shitty teacher then nobody will take your classes and then you will be out of a job. When I was in high school the only class we got to choose our teacher for was gym. But they capped the classes so somebody inevitable got stuck with a bad teacher. Coincidentally they were always the last to fill. One of the teachers was so bad that a petition was sent out to have her removed and in response they moved her to North Campus instead of firing her. Natural selection. We could take this further and base a teachers salary on how many students he impacts instead of how long he has been teaching. Ten-yeared teachers who cost a lot of money and no longer care because it is almost impossible to fire them would become a thing of the past. Teachers who fail to inspire their students and continue to treat them like crap will not be paid the same as a teacher who pores his hart and sole into his curriculum with the hopes that his students will leave his class better then when they came in. I have experience with the best and worst teachers and have found that no matter what the subject a good teacher can make it a good class.

It's kind of funny, my dad to this day still tells me my problem with school was that I went to school expecting to learn something useful instead of playing the "game".

I can see that you paid very close attention to your grammar and spelling lessons. Or, maybe, the lessons were there but you really weren't. Sure the education system has problems but there are millions of people each year that graduate and do fine with what they learn. Sometimes you get out what you put in.

 

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[Runum]

The school system is just a bunch of bullcrap.

High school has taught me absolutely nothing so far. I either knew it or forgot it.

They give you all the formulas in math but they dont teach you whats actually behind it. How to use it in the future, the history behind it, etc.

It's just remember this, get the grade, and move on.

I suggest reading John Taylor Gatto's "Wepaons of mass instruction". This book opened my eyes on education the way MJ's book opened my eyes on money.

I really don't think it would matter if the math teacher tried to show you what is actually behind the formulas or how to apply them, you wouldn't listen anyway. Walk a mile in my shoes and you will see what I see.

 

[Ska2free]

Public schools are in the unenviable position of trying to be all things to all people...and no matter how you structure incentives or issue mandates, it ain't possible.

So if you're bored in class, pick harder classes. Teach yourself something new. Learn on forums like this one. Parents should supplement the curriculum...there's just so much to know, and frankly no way a school can teach it to everyone.

There are some people, who the best/most they can get out of a high school degree is how to operate a fast food fryer. I don't mean this completely callously, but either because of desire or intellectual capacity or work ethic, for some school is institutionalization: learn to listen, follow directions, walk in an orderly line, punch in, punch out, retire at 65 (uhhh...make that 75).

I understand your frustration, I went to public school and have 1 (someday 2) kids in a rural public school. But I think I will tell them the same thing my dad told me: the trick is to do well in the system, without becoming institutionalized by it...excel, learn whatever you can, but keep ownership of your own ingenuity and imagination.

 

[garyfritz]

There is no question that public schools are substandard. They're designed to turn out drones for the assembly lines and corporate grunt jobs. Furthermore they're forced to do stupid stuff like teaching to high-stakes tests, and they spend way too much time doing non-educational stuff. And when they ARE teaching, it's often rote memorization.

I have two kids in high school and my brother and sister-in-law are teachers. I have a very good idea of what schools are like. You'll almost never find a teacher who teaches things like critical thinking, problem-solving skills, personal organization, or any of the skills that are GENUINELY needed in life.

But you're stuck in there. Now it's up to you: you can waste your time bitching about how lame school is, and get almost nothing out of it. Or you can MAKE GOOD USE of your time and MAKE school useful. Propose some independent study projects. Take advanced courses that challenge you. Find a mentor who will help guide you into the areas you're interested in.

As always in life, it's up to YOU to grab all you can out of school. There are fastlanes and sidewalks in school just like there are in life. Which do you want to be on?

 

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[GlobalWealth]

For profit schools will eventually lead to higher prices and lower quality. Look at walmart.

You are predicting the future here, are you omniscient?

Walmart is a bad example. Walmart has led to lower prices and higher quality. There have been many research studies showing that when a new Walmart is built in a town, the cost of living declines and quality of life improves.

Sure, they put mom n pops out of business. Tis life. But for the rest of the town, they now have a lower price for their household items and can afford more luxuries than before.

The media portrays Walmart as an evil corporate demon. Maybe there are some bad things going on there, but the facts are the facts. They create efficiency in the supply chain like no one else on the planet.

Right now, the cost of public school is actually higher in many cases than private school. Governments are woefully inadequate at allocating capital because they have the wrong motives.

Show me one govt agency that is more efficient than its private sector counterpart? Just one. I'll wait.

People use public schools now because it is paid for through tax dollars. In most areas, schools are paid for by property tax. Generally speaking, the lower income class do not own property thus they are getting their education for free. Of course they want to keep it.

Property owners tend to be wealthier and also more likely to use private school. but keep in mind, they are still paying their property tax to fund the children of non-property owners.

Its a typical Marxist ideology of redistribution of wealth.

A private school system is actually cheaper to run. Free market competition offers that advantage.

Government has no incentive to operate more efficiently. The local school board only wants to consume their entire annual budget to make sure they get the same, or more, for next year.

A privately run school wants to make money, hence the profit motive. It wants to operate as efficiently as possible to maximize profits while also maintaining a high level of quality in order to compete with the other schools in the area.

 

[garyfritz]

Actually many privately-run colleges are good examples of govt being more efficient than private. The for-profit college sector (Apollo, CollegeAmerica, etc) is terrible. Their whole business model is based on getting Title IV govt funding for student loans. Then according to a study I saw, only 9% of that govt money actually goes to education. The rest went to corporate officers, stock buybacks, etc. Their students default on loans at nearly 2x the rate of other schools. And I can't find the numbers on it now, but the studies I've seen says the students from the private for-profit colleges are significantly less successful after graduation. These schools seem to be designed to squeeze money from the govt teat, NOT to do a good job educating students.

 

[speedyexe]

Private college its fastlane business but still its a slave factory.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Their whole business model is based on getting Title IV govt funding for student loans.

If the business depends on govt funding, its isn't free-market at all. These are not true private sector businesses.

 

[StuardJames]

There are a number of drawbacks in education sector specially in less developed countries.We may understand that without education we can not do any thing else and the last thing is that in our education we must also add practical life experiences in form of short jobs and internships so student may learn the realities of life too.

 

[JayKid]

Actually many privately-run colleges are good examples of govt being more efficient than private. The for-profit college sector (Apollo, CollegeAmerica, etc) is terrible. Their whole business model is based on getting Title IV govt funding for student loans. Then according to a study I saw, only 9% of that govt money actually goes to education. The rest went to corporate officers, stock buybacks, etc. Their students default on loans at nearly 2x the rate of other schools. And I can't find the numbers on it now, but the studies I've seen says the students from the private for-profit colleges are significantly less successful after graduation. These schools seem to be designed to squeeze money from the govt teat, NOT to do a good job educating students.

Clearly this is true. Although, to be honest, there is still a problem with colleges across the board.

I think, ultimately, the problem is 99% of schools are not honest about what the degree means for students. They let students in and promise them the world, you know, because education will guarantee you a job, right?

The sad reality is... schools just keep pumping out graduates and none of them can find a job. Yet you don't see any schools, private OR public, really limiting admissions and cutting back. I'll be honest, there is also a problem with society forcing everyone to go to college and because everyone thinks it's necessary and it's so easy to get the loans to go, common sense gets thrown out the window.

Now, at least some schools are affordable and some kids actually want to learn and even get degrees that are applicable to a job they have a likelihood of attaining. But that's a minority of college students.

The system is screwed.

 

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[AcquireCurrency]

It is probably worse in the UK. Schools drive kids onto "mickey mouse" courses to push up pass rates.

Fortunatley I left school at 16 and have just recieved a job after one year at trade school.

Luckily, not many people can hop onto a lathe, injection moulding, milling or CNC machine so this is a pretty secure job.

Obviously I don't want a job. Hopefully I can start a manufacturing business when I finish my apprenticeship, in the mean time I am brainstorming ideas constantly and also plan to start a small business very soon.

 

[Runum]

Fortunatley I left school at 16 and have just recieved a job after one year at trade school.

Luckily, not many people can hop onto a lathe, injection moulding, milling or CNC machine so this is a pretty secure job.

Don't be so sure about your job security there. 20+ year machine shop veteran here. I have programmed, set-up, and run CNC lathes, mills, plasma cutters, etc. I have also been a tool maker, fabricator, and welder.

There are many ways to be phased out of manufacturing. Your job is always up for the lowest bidder. Your job can be outsourced worldwide or they can pay a bonus for you to run two machines and put another guy out of work. Your competition is the guy next to you and the guy on the other side of the world that makes a tenth of your salary and no benefits. I have seen some extremely talented guys lose their job overnight. In the end it won't matter how good you are, your costs to the company is what matters. I wish you well, but don't get too comfortable.

If you want to know more about my shop experiences, shoot me a PM.

 

[AcquireCurrency]

Don't be so sure about your job security there. 20+ year machine shop veteran here. I have programmed, set-up, and run CNC lathes, mills, plasma cutters, etc. I have also been a tool maker, fabricator, and welder.

There are many ways to be phased out of manufacturing. Your job is always up for the lowest bidder. Your job can be outsourced worldwide or they can pay a bonus for you to run two machines and put another guy out of work. Your competition is the guy next to you and the guy on the other side of the world that makes a tenth of your salary and no benefits. I have seen some extremely talented guys lose their job overnight. In the end it won't matter how good you are, your costs to the company is what matters. I wish you well, but don't get too comfortable.

If you want to know more about my shop experiences, shoot me a PM.

I agree with you completely.

and thanks for the offer, I will PM you later with both business and maybe general manufacturing/workshop questions.

The sort of thing I need help with understanding is how do manufacturers get their name out there, find clients and recieve long-term production contracts (even if you were an employee surely you could give some advice regarding this).

 

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