Dual Citizenship and overseas banking option advice?

[Guest682]

So i've been floating around SE Asia for awhile and decided to start a Social Media company in the region. As the subject states I'd like to explore the incentives of having dual citizenship, or a way to take income without having to pay taxes to several countries, I'm launching in Singapore & Jakarta? Any help or consultants who have proven experience who can help me get set up would be great. I'm currently boot-strapping and still haven't launched so I will probably not be your next big pay day but I do have some cash saved up. Thanks.

 

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[brighterside]

Good luck to your venture and I wish you well. I was just there just a few weeks ago in the SE Asia region. Can I ask why Singapore though? Its an expensive place to set up shop especially for a startup thats going to bootstrap. I also stopped at Manila and its booming with outsourcing jobs. But thats just me.

 

[wade1mil]

This guy is a member here

Second Citizenship: 1,000 Reasons for Americans to Consider It

 

[mayana]

This guy is a member here

Second Citizenship: 1,000 Reasons for Americans to Consider It

Wow, that's a crazy story. I'm not surprised, though, and while I won't go into the details about why, I can relate to his story.

I don't know if I agree 100% with his assessment of the U.S., but he's dead on with a lot of his points. Wow.

Makes me want to run out and get that second citizenship!

 

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[elclandestino]

i think every fastlaner should have 2-3 passports and 2 identities. there are ways how to get another identity fairly easy and quite legal!

the major problem i see in your case, which country to become a citizen of. if you got documented origin from somewhere in europe, then things get a lot easier. if not, you should look somewhere in south america. particularly paraguay, brasil and argentina. given certain conditions are met you can become a citizen in anywhere between 6 months and 3 years. identity change is not a big deal either. their passports are great travel documents too

 

[GlobalWealth]

I tell people getting a 2nd citizenship/passport is easy, cheap and quick.

The problem is you can only pick 2.

For example,

easy and cheap; go live in a country like Panama for 5 years and you can apply for citizenship through naturalization.

easy and quick; there are economic citizenship programs like in St Kitts and Dominica, but expect to pay a couple of hundred thousand dollars

cheap and quick; if you have ancestry in some countries like Ireland, Poland or Italy you can acquire citizenship based on rights of ancestry, but that takes a lot of research and effort.

Thanks to wade1mil for the republish of our article.

 

[Kak]

I have considered this pretty seriously. I do have the ancestory to get an Italian citizenship, but im hesitant. Here is why.

The reason I want one more than anything is because it is CURRENTLY Italy does not tax on foreign sourced income and I do plan to renounce US citizenship at some point in favor of a citizenship that does not tax on capital gains.

Then comes the very real possibility that Italy will just create laws just like the US where it now costs big bucks to renounce and you are enslaved to an additional government.

I see more promise out of the economic citizenship countries like St. Kitts and I think I am going to go that route at some point.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

I do have the ancestory to get an Italian citizenship, but im hesitant.

I have a partner that does this for clients very cheaply. Send me a msg if you want the intro.

I would not hesitate based on some future legislation in Italy. They are even slower to accomplish things politically than the US. Plus they are even more broke thus making enforcement practically impossible.

If you can acquire Italian citizenship, go for it. At least if gives you another option. And you can live, work, bank, etc in all 28 EU member states.

You will also find doing business, investing and banking significantly easier holding a non-US passport.

Italian is cheap and quick, not easy. but worthwhile. It is also a much better travel document than St Kitts or Dominica. You can always pursue those later as well. 3, 4 or more passports won't hurt you.

 

[DeletedUser394]

The idea of just buying your way into a country like a boss has been appealing to me for quite a while.

I'm glad to know you can get more than 2 passports. (I know many won't even allow dual though).

 

[GlobalWealth]

The idea of just buying your way into a country like a boss has been appealing to me for quite a while.

There are strictly citizenship through investment options out there like St Kitts and Dominica. Then there are residency through investment options that means you invest in real estate, govt bonds, or other assets, and after a period of time you can acquire citizenship.

Personally I don't like the idea of spending $200k+ just to 'buy' citizenship from a 3rd world country, but that's my preference. I'd much rather buy real estate and wait the few years, esp if you can earn a decent ROI.

I'm glad to know you can get more than 2 passports. (I know many won't even allow dual though).

There are a few countries that prohibit dual nationality, but even then most of them have no capacity to enforce it.

 

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[OzGrinder]

Same situation as KaK, but with a Portuguese father and live in Australia. Had been considering acquiring the dual citizenship for some time but had the same concerns re. taxing foreign earnings even though they currently do not, especially with their current economic track record.

Also there's no mandatory military service (which has been a problem for some dual citizens of some EU countries), and non compulsory voting. Which means there should only be benefits to acquiring the citizenship. If at any point their laws change I can always renounce the citizenship with no ramifications I believe?

 

[Kak]

Oz, there are some pretty big taxes in the US for renouncing. Look into it, some places like US think they own you.

 

[stefan]

Wouldn't renouncing US citizenship make things pretty difficult to re-enter the country for even short periods of time? I love the people and lifestyles of certain US states, but just hate our government.

I have a second EU citizenship and am also considering renouncing my US one in the future because I don't like the idea of global taxation of citizens. We aren't F*cking property of the fed. My only problem with renouncing citizenship is that I have family here and I know that I'll want to return to California occasionally.

I don't know the specifics of entering the USA without a citizenship but I'm assuming they wouldn't be too happy about an ex-citizen making temporary visits.

 

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[Kak]

Wouldn't renouncing US citizenship make things pretty difficult to re-enter the country for even short periods of time? I love the people and lifestyles of certain US states, but just hate our government.

I have a second EU citizenship and am also considering renouncing my US one in the future because I don't like the idea of global taxation of citizens. We aren't F*cking property of the fed. My only problem with renouncing citizenship is that I have family here and I know that I'll want to return to California occasionally.

I don't know the specifics of entering the USA without a citizenship but I'm assuming they wouldn't be too happy about an ex-citizen making temporary visits.

You would basically be a foreign national. You will enter as a citizen of your new country rather than an ex citizen of the US.

There was once a bill introduced saying people who renounce cant come back. It failed. I would be even more likely to renounce if it passed. I wouldn't want any part in that shit.

 

[stefan]

You would basically be a foreign national. You will enter as a citizen of your new country rather than an ex citizen of the US.

There was once a bill introduced saying people who renounce cant come back. It failed. I would be even more likely to renounce if it passed. I wouldn't want any part in that shit.

Sweet. That sounds good to me. Renouncing US citizenship sounds freeing and scary at the same time. It seems like it would be difficult to regain once it's gone. The worldwide taxation of US citizens is basically the only reason I'm considering this. I can't believe that our government does this yet continues to waste tax dollars in so many other areas.

Don't you think that there are tax lawyers who specialize in this area of legally protecting your international wealth from US global taxation? It's nothing that I have to really worry about just yet...but I'm just thinking that there's no way guys like Tim Ferriss and other high net-worth American entrepreneurs take hits from both the US Gov AND the Gov of their business's host-country.

I'm not actually sure if Tim Ferriss has incorporated any businesses out of the US by the way, that was just an example

Or what if you just always incorporate your businesses in the USA but use your other citizenship to travel the world whenever you want? Then you're only paying US taxes but still have that dose of freedom...right?

 

[DeletedUser394]

There are 193 countries in the world (3 more if you count Vatican City, Kosovo, and one other I can't think of).

Plenty of cool places to move to.

 

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[FastLearner]

Move to Switzerland, expensive but the quality of life is 10 times better than the U.S

 

[stefan]

There are 193 countries in the world (3 more if you count Vatican City, Kosovo, and one other I can't think of).

Plenty of cool places to move to.

I totally agree, the world is awesome. I was just kind of going over the big disadvantages and advantages of being a US citizen because US citizenship is a tricky subject now. I don't mean to take over the OP's thread though so I'll discontinue after this post

Move to Switzerland, expensive but the quality of life is 10 times better than the U.S

They aren't a member of the European Union. That's an even trickier country to live in. But a badass country nonetheless if you can work your way in.

Anyway, I'll focus on the fastlane for now.

 

[splok]

Move to Switzerland, expensive but the quality of life is 10 times better than the U.S

No idea about Switzerland specifically, but a lot of foreign countries aren't exactly utopias for people with aspirations, especially if you haven't actually hit the fastlane yet (enough money can make a lot of problems go away, no matter where you are). As many problems as the US has, I think Americans tend to forget that other countries have issues too. Ya, the US has an insane legal system, but you probably don't think that's actually going to directly affect you, even if reading articles about it makes you feel bad. However, move to a nanny-state and you're pretty much guaranteed to be paying more taxes, which is made even worse by the likely increased cost of living and various restrictions that you get to deal with.

People who have never left the US don't realize how cheaply and how well we can live compared to many other parts of the world. Maybe that's not an issue once you've made your bankroll, but for those of us who are still clawing out way up, the more important thing to consider imo, is which location offers you the best chance for success. I just know that the next time I move, I'll be taking cost of living MUCH more seriously than I did when I moved the last time.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Wouldn't renouncing US citizenship make things pretty difficult to re-enter the country for even short periods of time? I love the people and lifestyles of certain US states, but just hate our government.

You cannot officially renounce for tax purposes or you would be permanently banned from US re-entry. However if you renounce for other reasons, ie. family, heritage, etc. you can enter just like any other foreign national from that country.

EU citizens generally get visa free entry for up to 90 days in the US and a maximum of 120 days per year.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Don't you think that there are tax lawyers who specialize in this area of legally protecting your international wealth from US global taxation?

Um.....yes....

Or what if you just always incorporate your businesses in the USA but use your other citizenship to travel the world whenever you want? Then you're only paying US taxes but still have that dose of freedom...right?

This takes a bit of careful planning.

There are ways to minimize your US tax burden, esp if you qualify as a non-resident of the US. You can incorporate you business offshore and pay yourself the maximum allowable tax free salary (appr $100k + $40k housing deduction) and defer any remaining income inside your company.

The US is rather clever in closing offshore loopholes and there is some pressure to eliminate tax reporting for US citizens living abroad but this has not yet happened. As of now you still need to file you return and pay any taxes owed even when living outside the US.

There are some other more complicated solutions for higher net worth people with using trusts and insurance products.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Move to Switzerland, expensive but the quality of life is 10 times better than the U.S

Disagree. I was in Zurich last month and was not impressed.

The cost of living there has a major impact on your quality of life.

Some simple comparisons:

1br apartment in Zurich - $1900/m
1br apartment in Scottsdale - $700/m

Domestic beer in Zurich - $8
Domestic beer in Scottsdale - $3

Big Mac meal in Zurich - $14
Big Mac meal in Scottsdale - $6

source: Cost of Living Comparison Between Scottsdale, AZ, United States And Zurich, Switzerland

Unless you have a high paying job in Zurich, primarily in the finance sector, your quality of life will be much lower.

Zurich is a beautiful city and very orderly. Quality of products and services are high, but there are many places equally good with much lower cost.

 

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[FastLearner]

The cost of living there has a major impact on your quality of life.

Some simple comparisons:

1br apartment in Zurich - $1900/m
1br apartment in Scottsdale - $700/m

Domestic beer in Zurich - $8
Domestic beer in Scottsdale - $3

Big Mac meal in Zurich - $14
Big Mac meal in Scottsdale - $6

source: Cost of Living Comparison Between Scottsdale, AZ, United States And Zurich, Switzerland

Unless you have a high paying job in Zurich, primarily in the finance sector, your quality of life will be much lower.

Zurich is a beautiful city and very orderly. Quality of products and services are high, but there are many places equally good with much lower cost.

Yes, it's a very expensive country. I have friends in Geneva who are living the high life. Beats living in Scottsdale people wise LMAO

 

[1PercentStreet]

Yes, it's a very expensive country. I have friends in Geneva who are living the high life. Beats living in Scottsdale people wise LMAO

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

 

[theag]

EU citizens generally get visa free entry for up to 90 days in the US and a maximum of 120 days per year.

Yeah, but if we stay for too many days in the last X years, we have to pay US taxes, even if we stay within the limits per year. Not sure how exactly this works but I think thats kinda crazy.

 

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[theag]

I lived in Switzerland for the past 3 years and hated it. Being so expensive isnt even the main issue. Its that 95% of the people have a huge stick up their a$$.

 

[FastLearner]

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

Oh, I don't at all think the grass is greener, I've been to Switzerland enough times to know it's not. Do you even know what the people are like in Scottsdale? Lol
I'll take living in an expensive country over shitty people any day. My perspective though.

 

[FastLearner]

I lived in Switzerland for the past 3 years and hated it. Being so expensive isnt even the main issue. Its that 95% of the people have a huge stick up their a$$.

I think Parisians are much worse.

 

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[1PercentStreet]

Oh, I don't at all think the grass is greener, I've been to Switzerland enough times to know it's not. Do you even know what the people are like in Scottsdale? Lol
I'll take living in an expensive country over shitty people any day. My perspective though.

You get what you give.

I know some F*cking awesome people that live in Scottsdale. Why do you think the BP is hosted there every year?

 

[FastLearner]

You get what you give.

I know some F*cking awesome people that live in Scottsdale. Why do you think the BP is hosted there every year?

Aside from the entrepreneurs and business owners..
People my age, completely suck. Haven't made a ton of worthwhile friends since I've moved here. Oh well.