HOT TOPIC Does wealth require you to become ruthless?

[DavidTT]

So I was watching this video from London Real about Dan Pena and he did mention something interesting:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNeCnfAq_M


I noticed that a lot of times in work or in life generally, I did have to be harsh in order to get things done. Back when I was a supervisor at a valet company, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly (always late, extra long breaks, harassing other employees etc) whereas, when I was being a real d*ck, things would get done.

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

 

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[ruzara5]

, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs

Depends. Organizations and management styles. MUST protect the business. Building a business sometimes tough decisions must be made. Room for improvement. Sometimes means cleaning house. Customers expect a level of service. Competition is listening. If being five steps ahead of the competition and minding your business is ruthless. It could be interpreted that way. A good smile can also help along the way. Building something great that adds tremendously value only appears easy and 'nice' at the afterglow edge. Maybe a benefit will be how that business gives back to the community. Improves it's particular market base. Being ruthlessly intelligent in business savvy can be a good thing.

 

[Digamma]

I noticed that a lot of times in work or in life generally, I did have to be harsh in order to get things done. Back when I was a supervisor at a valet company, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly (always late, extra long breaks, harassing other employees etc) whereas, when I was being a real d*ck, things would get done.

That's not being ruthless. You were a manager. A manager manages people. If people are dicks, they need to be treated as such.

'Ruthless' is one of those words online business badasses really love to spew. You gotta be ruthless! Ruthlessly honest, ruthlessly do what needs to be done. Ruthless, ruthless. Did I say ruthless?

Except that no, none of those things is "ruthless". Dumping toxic waste in a river where children play is ruthless. Stealing your grandparents life savings to buy cocaine is ruthless.

 

[GMSI7D]

So I was watching this video from London Real about Dan Pena and he did mention something interesting:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNeCnfAq_M


I noticed that a lot of times in work or in life generally, I did have to be harsh in order to get things done. Back when I was a supervisor at a valet company, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly (always late, extra long breaks, harassing other employees etc) whereas, when I was being a real d*ck, things would get done.

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

Dan pena is right. he is an alpha male and on the edge of madness sometimes.

the rich people i know are not nice guys. they are determined S.O.B jerks.

peace does not exist on earth.

it is either official war or cold war with indirect moves.

cold war between countries, companies and so on.

what is the common philosophy of Nietzsche, machiavelli and dan pena ?

--- > nice guys are the idiots of the system


quotation :

 

[Red]

I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly

--- > nice guys are the idiots of the system

You guys are confusing "nice" with "spineless."

Stealing your grandparents life savings to buy cocaine is ruthless.

Not gonna lie, kinda wanna hang with Digamma now.

 

[Vanderbilt]

So I was watching this video from London Real about Dan Pena and he did mention something interesting:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNeCnfAq_M


I noticed that a lot of times in work or in life generally, I did have to be harsh in order to get things done. Back when I was a supervisor at a valet company, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly (always late, extra long breaks, harassing other employees etc) whereas, when I was being a real d*ck, things would get done.

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

i recognized the same! could write storys about that, you learn as you go, try everything out and adapt!
If your too nice to your employees they think you are pussy or you have the wrong employees!
Show people you are serious about work and have self-esteem!

 

[SteveO]

No!!!!! I have done business with a lot of assholes. Most people in the commercial real estate world are ruthless. You don't need to be though. The process of leaving "dead bodies" behind will reduce the available options for the future. Business can be done in a constructive fashion without the choke hold.

This does not mean that you don't use your leverage where possible. You must take advantage of openings. Keep your cards close to your chest while gathering as much information as possible. Use this information the best you can in negotiations. Always look for your options.

Walking away from a deal or applying pressure may leave you looking like you negotiated in bad faith. Always present relevant concerns to the other side. Proper communication is key in many situations.

In the example that you discussed, being mean will get temporary results. You can still be a reasonably nice person and get results. Let everyone know what is expected of them. If they take extra time on the break you can warn them. If they do it again, let them go. It will serve as an example. It is possible to treat all parties with respect while this is happening.

 

[GMSI7D]

So I was watching this video from London Real about Dan Pena and he did mention something interesting:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRNeCnfAq_M


I noticed that a lot of times in work or in life generally, I did have to be harsh in order to get things done. Back when I was a supervisor at a valet company, I tried being nice to everyone but that would eventually lead to everyone abusing and not doing their jobs properly (always late, extra long breaks, harassing other employees etc) whereas, when I was being a real d*ck, things would get done.

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

i believe his rage is the reason why he lives in a mansion instead of living on social welfare like most people of his age

this is my core belief. unshakable.

his rage is the main reason for his wealth

not BS like " serving people with a smile " or " love for peace in the universe "

all the official BS used to explain success in business

you have to be real here : life is a b*tch

i was a nice guy and my youth was a total disaster with everything : women, success, money

everything

you have to become the S.O.B of your area if you want to go ahead

and i mean it

that kind of rage at the end of this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxMYvPy8QwA





.

 

[ZF Lee]

i believe his rage is the reason why he lives in a mansion instead of living on social welfare like most people of his age

this is my core belief. unshakable.

his rage is the main reason for his wealth

not BS like " serving people with a smile " or " love for peace in the universe "

all the official BS used to explain success in business

you have to be real here : life is a b*tch

i was a nice guy and my youth was a total disaster with everything : women, success, money

everything

you have to become the S.O.B of your area if you want to go ahead

and i mean it

that kind of rage at the end of this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxMYvPy8QwA





.

I interpreted ruthlessness, as shown by Dan Pena, to be a necessity when:
- People are cheating you in the face, or behind your back

-People are illegally and purposefully, not letting you have your way (Something like @Kak's many cases)

-You come to a point in business, like negotiating six-seven figures, where you cannot let other influences bother you

-You have to point out BS (for example mediocrity and MLM)

Dan Pena has to be 'ruthless' in the financial world, given that he was up against top negotiators and tough economic conditions where people were saying 'no' and 'nay'.

For his seminars, he still swears at his audience because he wants to point out the mistakes they make, and they are bad. Sure, he sometimes does it over-the-top. But he did make his points.

Being ruthlessly confident and sure of your values and stand? Yes.
Being ruthlessly destructive and vicious, to the point of degrading others? No.

 

[GMSI7D]

I interpreted ruthlessness, as shown by Dan Pena, to be a necessity when:
- People are cheating you in the face, or behind your back

-People are illegally and purposefully, not letting you have your way (Something like @Kak's many cases)

-You come to a point in business, like negotiating six-seven figures, where you cannot let other influences bother you

-You have to point out BS (for example mediocrity and MLM)

Dan Pena has to be 'ruthless' in the financial world, given that he was up against top negotiators and tough economic conditions where people were saying 'no' and 'nay'.

For his seminars, he still swears at his audience because he wants to point out the mistakes they make, and they are bad. Sure, he sometimes does it over-the-top. But he did make his points.

Being ruthlessly confident and sure of your values and stand? Yes.
Being ruthlessly destructive and vicious, to the point of degrading others? No.

yes you are right .


my viewpoint is a global one : this the absolute yang of chinese philosophy


success is the right use of force, the yang


skip to 8:40 in this video to learn a valuable lesson

we have to master life, that b*tch


this is a very valuable lesson at 8:40 and beyond.

very very instructive

the lion philosophy

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOK2A0fzlQo






.

 

[DavidTT]

I honestly also got the same vibe from MJ in unscripted when he mentioned millennials being too soft or snowflakes or entitled etc.

 

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[noche]

Awesome topic!

I think that this is a skill everybody needs to learn.

The first step is to understand really understand who you are.

I don't like to be harsh and want to really talk through the problem and creating the win-win situations and expecting nice-nice conversation.

But if dynamics of conversation goes to harsh-nice then I need to switch, because life is not some mediation hippie shit like I used to think - If you are nice, everybody will be nice bullshit. The world is really f*cked up place with more f*cked up people who want to use their power over you.

Set boundaries. If boundaries are broken, then you need to switch over to "power mode"

Go read Robert Green - 48 laws of power.

I only use these tools in the case someone "attacks me"

 

[SteveO]

I don't like to be harsh and want to really talk through the problem and creating the win-win situations and expecting nice-nice conversation.

Teddy Roosevelt used the phrase "speak softly and carry a big stick". Most people react to instances with automatic impulses from belief systems. It is in these beliefs that we feel a need to defend ourselves from perceived threats. Most of the time we are bellowing out against something that we believe attacks our pride or ego.

If you have the ability to respond after emotions are cleared, the odds are that your response will be much more in line with what you are trying to accomplish. You do not need "nice-nice". "win-win" is desired because that is what will bring interest from the other side. Setting this up will help in most deals.

The big stick should not be to protect your pride. Protect your livelihood by watching your deal. Harsh words only elevate petty problems to large ones.

 

[Mr.Brandtastic]

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

Depends how you define ruthless. Ruthless efficiency? A necessity. Ruthless and fanatical devotion to customer support? Yup. Ruthless no-nonsense get things done attitude? I mean how else are you going to do it?

A lot of poor people use excuses though for why they're not rich. In a fabulous article and podcast by Victor Pride he explains this well (How To Get Respect From All People). It may seem like rich people are cold or distant in many cases but that is because they love themselves. Self-made rich people would still be average if they associated themselves with average people and lived average lives.

 

[justonemore]

I could be 100% wrong. But I listened to Dan pena on the Joe Rogan podcast, and he just came across as a very very weird guy. Like a used car saleman. I don't know anything about the guy, but he sets off alarms in my mind for sure.

I'm not alone, here's some of the comments from this podcast:

"This guy is interesting and nuts! His ego just broke my computer. I killed 2 buffalo last year with one rock. Then a bear was attacking me and had to beat him to death with one of the buffalo hooves. In 1st grade I dropped a car on the entire faculty and never apologized."

""I killed a Pterydactyl with a screwdriver with 14 blown out knees while being chased by the cannibal holocaust led by mutant mercenaries while brushing my teeth" ~ Dan Pena, 2017"

"This guy is the epitome of a "tough guy" and a "bullshitter"; a 70-year-old uncle Rico."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoqIRSZ818M

 

[Mattie]

A lot of poor people use excuses though for why they're not rich. In a fabulous article and podcast by Victor Pride he explains this well (How To Get Respect From All People). It may seem like rich people are cold or distant in many cases but that is because they love themselves. Self-made rich people would still be average if they associated themselves with average people and lived average lives.

I always wonder how many actual people have been at the bottom of the fist tank, and actually gone through the whole process when they say things like this. M.J. I know has, but who else got from the bottom to the top by themselves without any help from anyone. Just curious.

 

[DavidTT]

I could be 100% wrong. But I listened to Dan pena on the Joe Rogan podcast, and he just came across as a very very weird guy. Like a used car saleman. I don't know anything about the guy, but he sets off alarms in my mind for sure.

I'm not alone, here's some of the comments from this podcast:

"This guy is interesting and nuts! His ego just broke my computer. I killed 2 buffalo last year with one rock. Then a bear was attacking me and had to beat him to death with one of the buffalo hooves. In 1st grade I dropped a car on the entire faculty and never apologized."

""I killed a Pterydactyl with a screwdriver with 14 blown out knees while being chased by the cannibal holocaust led by mutant mercenaries while brushing my teeth" ~ Dan Pena, 2017"

"This guy is the epitome of a "tough guy" and a "bullshitter"; a 70-year-old uncle Rico."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoqIRSZ818M

I did watch the podcast and also did give that con-artist, guru-like vibe alright. Then again, we're dealing with an old man from another time so the things he does/say is quite different lol.

At my old job, working as a valet in a high-end store, there was this old couple (in there 80's) who would come there almost everyday to eat because the food there was free for them and pretty good. I later found out that they were in fact shareholders of the company, hence the free food and they were extremely wealthy. Anyhow, one thing that I've noticed is that, because they come from a different time than us, a lot of things which would seem unethical or 'offensive' for our generation was in fact, pretty normal for them lol. An example was that of race which, in our generation, we need to keep a very high level of transparency when talking about race when for them, it was normal to speak about different races and ethnicity which we would consider it as racism really. Basically, they have no filter lol and it's not as if they have any ill-will towards anyone. They don't come from a time of political-correctness.

I don't buy everything Dan says but you should watch the documentary on london real's website and his castle tour. A lot of things he says sounds completely unreal but even the castle he lives in is absolutely unreal hahah.

Guthrie Castle Tour – BONUS | Dan Pena – The 50 Billion Dollar Man | London Real

 

[justonemore]

I did watch the podcast and also did give that con-artist, guru-like vibe alright. Then again, we're dealing with an old man from another time so the things he does/say is quite different lol.

I don't buy everything Dan says but you should watch the documentary on london real's website and his castle tour. A lot of things he says sounds completely unreal but even the castle he lives in is absolutely unreal hahah.

Fair points.
The only experience I have with him is that podcast, so I may very well be 100% wrong.
I'll checkout the videos you posted.

 

[SteveO]

Depends how you define ruthless. Ruthless efficiency? A necessity. Ruthless and fanatical devotion to customer support? Yup. Ruthless no-nonsense get things done attitude? I mean how else are you going to do it?

A lot of poor people use excuses though for why they're not rich. In a fabulous article and podcast by Victor Pride he explains this well (How To Get Respect From All People). It may seem like rich people are cold or distant in many cases but that is because they love themselves. Self-made rich people would still be average if they associated themselves with average people and lived average lives.

Well for starters, I don't feel any need for respect. This article may have some points but is mostly shit.

 

[Chosenone]

Perhaps Mr. Pena had tough time in high school and lost his virginity at 28 .
Joke aside, by my experience, being too radical is not the best strategy.
People tend to close themselves (and many opportunities with them) when treated in a bad way.
However, there are some cases when you need to be mercyless (after trying everything else before).

 

[GMSI7D]

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

moreover, we have to stand on the shoulder of giants

what do i mean ?

sucessful people like Dan Pena or eben pagan talk about great leaders or people which inspire them

in the occult world, we talk about egregors, the influence of spirit force and great minds


dan pena has built his influencers wall with great leaders and mind of mankind

whether leaders are bad or good is not the point

the point is that they were able to go forward with their vision whether we think that their vision is evil or good.

the point is they believed in themselves and stood on the shoulders of their great predecessors


here is dan pena's wall of influencers in his mansion





YOU have to tap into that power of standing on the shoulders of giant

why ?

because you become the next avatar of this forces which try to embody themselves on earth

this is an incredible power


great leaders in most cases said that they were just a channel for superior forces and meaning

think about that.

 

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[Chosenone]

moreover, we have to stand on the shoulder of giants

what do i mean ?

sucessful people like Dan Pena or eben pagan talk about great leaders or people which inspire them

in the occult world, we talk about egregors, the influence of spirit force and great minds


dan pena has built his influencers wall with great leaders and mind of mankind

whether leaders are bad or good is not the point

the point is that they were able to go forward with their vision whether we think that their vision is evil or good.

the point is they believed in themselves and stood on the shoulders of their great predecessors


here is dan pena's wall of influencers in his mansion

View attachment 17506



YOU have to tap into that power of standing on the shoulders of giant

why ?

because you become the next avatar of this forces which try to embody themselves on earth

this is an incredible power


great leaders in most cases said that they were just a channel for superior forces and meaning

think about that.

He has Stalin and Hitler on his wall. That's quite disturbing..

 

[Guest6814]

There is a difference between being assertive and being aggressive. One can be assertive without mistreating or abusing others. The idea that “nice guys finish last” is only true when the nice guy is also too cowardly to stand up for himself when abusive people try to knock him down. Assertiveness just means boldly stating and doing what you want; you don’t have to be a jerk to do that. I know people who are a lot wealthier than I am and are also really good people.

You still need to apply ruthlessness against the SCRIPT’s distractions and stupiditis that try to keep you down. Do I have to get up in the morning and instantly check the news for the latest gossip on what some bickering politicians said to each other? No; I can ruthlessly refuse to succumb to that garbage and focus on my business instead.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

It doesn't surprise me that this would come from someone closer to 80 than 30.

I think the "ruthless" attitude is old school, the kind of shit that was expected back in the 70's or 80's.

Nowadays, consumers are too smart, too aware, and too guarded.

We don't want to do business with ruthless people (or corporations.)

I feel the more honorable and/or transparent you are in your dealings, the better.

Capitalism and free market systems are under attack. Why? Because ruthless dickheads are making the common folk angry.

What ruthlessness might have worked in 1973 for Dan, probably wouldn't work today.

There is a difference between being assertive and being aggressive. One can be assertive without mistreating or abusing others. The idea that “nice guys finish last” is only true when the nice guy is also too cowardly to stand up for himself when abusive people try to knock him down. Assertiveness just means boldly stating and doing what you want; you don’t have to be a jerk to do that. I know people who are a lot wealthier than I am and are also really good people.

You still need to apply ruthlessness against the SCRIPT’s distractions and stupiditis that try to keep you down. Do I have to get up in the morning and instantly check the news for the latest gossip on what some bickering politicians said to each other? No; I can ruthlessly refuse to succumb to that garbage and focus on my business instead.

+1 Rep.

 

[David Goliath]

That's not being ruthless. You were a manager. A manager manages people. If people are dicks, they need to be treated as such.

'Ruthless' is one of those words online business badasses really love to spew. You gotta be ruthless! Ruthlessly honest, ruthlessly do what needs to be done. Ruthless, ruthless. Did I say ruthless?

Except that no, none of those things is "ruthless". Dumping toxic waste in a river where children play is ruthless. Stealing your grandparents life savings to buy cocaine is ruthless.

Agreed. "When with people, be a man; when with dogs, be a wolf". That, in my opinion, is how things are done in the business world. Sometimes "ruthlessness" which to your point is thrown around in every online medium (typically not used as how it's defined), comes with the territory.

 

[socaldude]

I think a lot of people who have this attitude of "ruthlessness" are actually struggling because its a consequence of anger and frustration.

I'm a huge believer in catch-22s. Act like an a**hole? Then you attract assholes.

Act nice and generous? Then you get niceness and generosity.

People like being around people who are nice.

The fact of the matter is that people are sensitive and people tend to give a lot of favor to people who treat them with kindness. It really does work.

 

[SteveO]

Act like an a**hole? Then you attract assholes.

Wait.... What??? I agree with you but was too chicken shit to say it. It sounds cornball even if it is true.

 

[WJK]

That being said, is it true that we have to become ruthless in order to gain wealth?

No. You don't have to be ruthless -- but you do have to have very strict personal morals. I don't cheat, steal or lie. I don't intentionally hurt anyone. I'm polite even when I don't have to be. I rarely raise my voice. I often help people and give them a chance to make things right.

Yes, I have to evict people at times. Yes, I do have enforce our property rules. Yes, I do call our Trooper when I need them. I don't let people walk over me, but I also don't walk over them either.

For the most part I am respected for my business ethics by both my tenants and our community. My reputation is that I'm tough, but fair. It's business -- not personal.

 

[ZF Lee]

He has Stalin and Hitler on his wall. That's quite disturbing..

If you look up a few of Dan Pena' videos, he included the villains on the Wall of Fame because of they willingness to do the hard things to reach their goals, not for their morality.

It's not that Pena devalues moral values and care for others (he has a Wall of Shame for that, but that is another story). His doctrine heavily focuses on success that is on a level somehow MORE RABID than Fastlane.

His dogma would be, 'If the bad guys can succeed and make it big, why can't the good guys do it?'

 

[RogueInnovation]

Yes but in a different way than you would think.

Being unscrupulous is just weak, a result of capitulating to a fear of doing nothing and getting nowhere and then acting out in desperation with bad intent and the desire to just take value from others. That isn't being ruthless about anything other than ruthlessly lowering your standards as a human being.

The way you actually want to be ruthless is in your capacity to act where others won't or can't because they fear failure.