Curious about who here achieved Financial Freedom

[Kirsov]

It's like coming up to a stranger at a coffee shop and asking them "how much money do you have in the bank and how much are you making p.a. ?"

It is a normal thing for me to do. I am that kind of person who goes directly to the point, even if I just met you seconds ago. Many people are surprised to how direct I am (in real life), in a good way.

I'll share some thoughts:
- my path wis not as relevant because as Heraclitus used to say that you can't cross the same river twice...
- I am not sure if I have achieved "financial freedom" as each of us will have a different definition of what that means. I cannot imagine "retiring" as it might just kill me of boredom. And because I run a business, I never have enough money, but by any normal human definition, I am financially wealthy.
- Value created to the world: all in real estate. Have been doing it a while.
- Business is a roller coaster ride. Some people come off one ride, puke their guts out and say "never again"; stress is too much. Others love it and can't wait to jump on another ride. That's what it feels like for me year after year, month after month. I go from low to high, from high to low. And I love it, wouldn't want to have any other way.

Thanks for sharing. My definition of financial freedom isn't about retiring, but about money not being a problem to do whatever you want to do in life.

Do you have a post about your real estate and your coaster ride? I am interested to see how you made it.

 

[Kirsov]

But I did do a radio show with @Kak (maybe listen to the episode) and I have a RE AMA thread, link in my signature

I can't view your profile to find the link, it says that there are only specific persons that you enabled to.

What is the episode you did on Kyle Keegan Radio Show called?

Btw, I just found Andy Black on the show too.

 

[Two Dog]

So when the OP asks about financial freedom, is the number $10,000 a month coming in from your business, or is it $10M that generates $10,000 a month in return. There is a huge difference between the two.

Actually, I don't see any real difference between the two. A business is something that generates cashflow. Hopefully.

Someone's $10M apartment building throwing off $10K monthly (yes, the numbers don't make sense but humor me. Maybe they overpaid in a bidding war or discovered it was built over a nuclear dump site and the tenants ran off) isn't any different than the Dollar General throwing off $10K monthly to me. I think of it more in terms of inbound dollars vs. outbound time. If the property management company and general manager both call with questions for an hour each month, it seems exactly the same.

Are you saying there's an inherent difference or just assuming the biz takes up more personal time?

 

[Two Dog]

Yes, take these two people:

Person number one has a business making $10k a month, $120k a year semi-passive. He can travel the world because someone else is running your business. However, because his business is relatively young, he has managed to save only $100k in the bank and has a mortgage on his $300k house. He is somewhat financially free, but NOT retired.

Even after 5 more years, he may have only saved $500k. He is NOT retired. His business is worth 4x, that's another $480k. So on paper he is worth $1M.

He is still not retired. Financially free for 5 years, but not retirement financially free.

Sure, that's straightforward enough. Also pretty accurately describes my situation over the past few years.

Just throw in a touch of real estate. I haven't completely come around to valuing net worth more than cashflow though. There's too many people that are wealthy on paper, but have so little cashflow that their hands are still tied. Sure, money is fungible and it's possible to convert between the two. It just tends to be a bad idea with illiquid investments, collateralized loans, etc.

I prefer the idea of owning a business that throws out $100K monthly cashflow (which is far in excess of our own spending) with the overage being dumped into largely illiquid long-term capital investments like stocks, bond, real estate and private equity investments. As I'm writing this, I think the underlying problem is my deep skepticism that conservative investments will continually pay out for a lifetime. Just like I'm surprisingly pretty skeptical that our life insurance policies will actually pay out to the kids. There's really no easy fix for that perspective except more experience.

Was there a point in your net worth where dumping everything into a low-risk income stream made sense?

 

[Antifragile]

Sure, that's straightforward enough. Also pretty accurately describes my situation over the past few years.

Just throw in a touch of real estate. I haven't completely come around to valuing net worth more than cashflow though. There's too many people that are wealthy on paper, but have so little cashflow that their hands are still tied. Sure, money is fungible and it's possible to convert between the two. It just tends to be a bad idea with illiquid investments, collateralized loans, etc.

I prefer the idea of owning a business that throws out $100K monthly cashflow (which is far in excess of our own spending) with the overage being dumped into largely illiquid long-term capital investments like stocks, bond, real estate and private equity investments. As I'm writing this, I think the underlying problem is my deep skepticism that conservative investments will continually pay out for a lifetime. Just like I'm actually pretty skeptical that our life insurance policies will actually pay out to the kids. There's really no easy fix for that perspective except more experience.

Was there a point in your net worth where dumping everything into a low-risk income stream made sense?

I’m curious, does it have to be either or? Why is there this talk about financial freedom as becoming passive? In reality, business can be a very engaging place to spend time and continue growing (personally and financially). I think I talked with @Kak a few times about this.

 

[Kirsov]

I’m curious, does it have to be either or? Why is there this talk about financial freedom as becoming passive? In reality, business can be a very engaging place to spend time and continue growing (personally and financially). I think I talked with @Kak a few times about this.

Because some people are interested in other things rather than business. For example, if you are someone who wants to find another way of providing energy to the world while causing the least pollution possible, your income have to be passive so that you can solely focus on your work. If you still have to focus on your business while it is not something you want to focus on, I consider that as not being financially free yet.

 

[Kirsov]

My take for the last few years is simply that FF means money thoughts don't cause you any stress.

You don't worry about buying things day to day, you don't worry about running out, you don't worry about giving it away to friends, family, charities, whomever. You just live your life.

Exactly the life I want to live and consider FF.

One of the saddest things imaginable is someone who's worth millions who's still banging away because they're terrified it will not last or will be taken away or God only knows what. No amount of money is going to give them peace or FF by my definition.

Yes that's true. FF contributes to happiness but there are also other factors needed for happiness and if the others are missing, that person can't really be happy no matter how rich he is.

 

[Two Dog]

@Altaff Mauritius, right? A tiny beautiful island in the Indian Ocean. Not exactly known as a hotbed of entrepreneurship.

What I find fascinating about this whole conversation is you started it in the first place. Being able to connect online in this forum means you can launch a successful empire from a remote island without ever leaving it. It's science fiction turning into reality with every post. All those stories from Phillip K. Dick and William Gibson are actually happening.

Is there anyone else local that you connect with?

 

[Kirsov]

@Altaff Mauritius, right?

Yes.

Being able to connect online in this forum means you can launch a successful empire from a remote island without ever leaving it.

I'm not sure I can. Please explain further, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Is there anyone else local that you connect with?

Sadly, no. No one.

 

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[Trait]

There are stories sprinkled around the forum of people who either are on their way to financial freedom, or have achieved it. Some of the GOLD threads by reveal some of these stories. For every 1 story I see posted here, I receive 10-15 privately. Its a shame we don't have more "official threads" ... for instance, I found these in the "Share Your Big Wins" thread...

That's really great to hear. I was always curious about the conversion ratio of your books aka number of people who make it vs number of quitters. My previous estimate was around ~0.7% judging by the number of gold threads public and estimating number of gold threads in INSIDERS and then another estimation of number of people who didn't post in forum at all and all that is compared to the 70k members. Now the estimate sits at around ~8.1% not accounting people who read the book but didn't join the forum, that probably means they didn't even try to commit to the books teachings.

It would be cool though if you give a more accurate conversion ratio estimation because you have all the data.

 

[Kirsov]

Sure thing. You can build, run and sell an online business from almost anywhere in the world nowadays. The only requirements are motivation, action and knowledge. Kind of sounds like an infomercial, but it's true. You need to supply the first two elements and the third is readily available on the internet and through forums like this one.

Empire Flippers has done a fabulous job of classifying online businesses into 25 categories. I'm posting a link to their valuation tool which details all of them. I'm also posting a link to their active business for sale to give you a better idea of what's possible. Hopefully, that's enough to get you thinking about what's possible from the island. If you don't know what all the categories mean, jump online and start researching. I had to look up one myself just now. ;-)

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Y'know, many digital nomads actually GO to places like Mauritius to run their businesses!!!

And nothing at all prevents you from going elsewhere as well.

Thanks for the help man! I am going to take a look at those.

 

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[Two Dog]

That's really great to hear. I was always curious about the conversion ratio of your books aka number of people who make it vs number of quitters. My previous estimate was around ~0.7% judging by the number of gold threads public and estimating number of gold threads in INSIDERS and then another estimation of number of people who didn't post in forum at all and all that is compared to the 70k members. Now the estimate sits at around ~8.1% not accounting people who read the book but didn't join the forum, that probably means they didn't even try to commit to the books teachings.

It would be cool though if you give a more accurate conversion ratio estimation because you have all the data.

What does "make it" actually mean?!? The conversion ratio can't be estimated and really matters not at all.

MJ doesn't have X-ray vision to see into the lives and finances of everyone on the forums along with having no idea who's actually read the books vs. purchased them vs. borrowed from a friend and so on. It doesn't matter because conversion ratios are meaningless here. Either YOU succeed to your own satisfaction or YOU don't. What anyone else has accomplished or not is irrelevant.

I can tell you my personal guesstimate after many years, many entrepreneurs and far more wannabe entrepreneurs is that about 10 - 20 out of 100 potential entrepreneurs do anything at all. Most give up without ever starting. 90% of the starters eventually give up within the first 3 - 12 months. That means about 1 - 2% overall stick it out until something eventually works after almost certainly failing several times in a row. Take it as either slightly depressing or highly challenging. Both are true.

 

[Kirsov]

for me personal, financial freedom
is that you are in charge of your on timeschedule. you decide when, what and how you are doing things.

with that out of hand, i achived financial freedom by investing the last 10 years in the markets. i started as a 18y old with no financial background and with only a few bucks in my pocket.

the biggest mistakes i made was right in the beginning. i wanted to become rich quick so i spent the first few bucks on different courses and trading programms. what a stupid idea that was. after i learned my lesson i focused on building the right mindset and to watch other successful investors to learn their techniques. i started to invest in the right businesses with the right mindset and 10y later i finally achieved my goal.

after a few months of independencie i faced mental problems. the first time in life i had no goals for the future and i was struggling to motivate myself.

so TMF really changed my life upside down what financial freedom couldn‘t. i now have a new purpose in life. i‘m writing now a book to help others become financially independent. this book showed me a new path a new long-term goal in life

don‘t stop!! always learn and improve your skills.

hope that brings any value to you.

How much profit did you make during your 10years of investing?

 

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