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Bulk document generator

jeandearme

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For the last year I've been doing a web app for a compensation company that sends a lot of documents via snail mail because they require physical signature (yup, no fancy digital signatures). The web app is simplifying process of document creation by getting data from database and using it to fill the template in proper manner.

It got me thinking and led to some assumptions:
  • there are many more people using Word documents
  • there are almost as many people manually filling same documents they need to send
  • many of them are using .csv files (because many apps let download data in that format)
Those are assumptions, but approved by people working with multiple companies on daily basis (I'm not). And that led me to a spin-off which is the main subject of this thread.

The idea is, actually, quite simple: if you are filling templates for your business manually you are loosing a lot of money (because of time spent). What if you could export your data and fill 100's of documents within minutes just by these three simple steps:
  1. Upload your data
  2. Insert tags in your template
  3. Run the generator
I know it works because for the last year company I'm working with processed a lot of documents through it and they quadrupled their output speed . And to create working service as described it'd take around a week.

What I would like to ask you are two things:
  1. What do YOU think about the idea?
  2. What pricing strategy would be good? My trial on that below.
When it comes to pricing I thought about something like that:
Pages per monthPrice per monthCost per page (highest)Cost per page (lowest)
1 - 500$0 (FREE)00
501 - 2000$49$0.10$0.03
2001 - 5000$149$0.08$0.03
5001 - 10000$499$0.10$0.05
>10000God knows

Those are just arbitrary numbers that felt right. Additionally, I put 'Cost per page' calculations (probably would drop on highest when shown to customer). Highest means if in a selected tier you would use minimum number of pages (so in 501 - 2000 tier you would use appx. 550 pages). Lowest on the other hand is when in the same example you would use number of docs close to maximum for you tier.

I hope it makes sense! Looking forward to your feedback!
 
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aeden

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What I would like to ask you are two things:
  1. What do YOU think about the idea?
  2. What pricing strategy would be good? My trial on that below.
When it comes to pricing I thought about something like that:
Pages per monthPrice per monthCost per page (highest)Cost per page (lowest)
1 - 500$0 (FREE)00
501 - 2000$49$0.10$0.03
2001 - 5000$149$0.08$0.03
5001 - 10000$499$0.10$0.05
>10000God knows

Is this similar to FormStack ( Online Form Builder | Form Creator for Online Forms | Formstack or more specifically Document Generation & Automation | Formstack )? It looks like what you are describing is a feature of their documents product: Automated Document Assembly | Formstack see the section on Data Uploads.

My guess is there are other products that accomplish this as a feature of their total product. When I see this I immediately think about niching down: how could your product solve the problems of a specific market that is sub-optimally served by a broader generic product?

Regarding the pricing, consider keeping it super simple at be prepared to test various pricing options. If you decide to niche down then the niche may also signal certain pricing.

HTH.
 

jeandearme

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Is this similar to FormStack ( Online Form Builder | Form Creator for Online Forms | Formstack or more specifically Document Generation & Automation | Formstack )? It looks like what you are describing is a feature of their documents product: Automated Document Assembly | Formstack see the section on Data Uploads.

I actually haven't even searched for competitors - it's very similar to Automated Document Assembly from Formstack. I could actually get more ideas from them now :devil:

My guess is there are other products that accomplish this as a feature of their total product. When I see this I immediately think about niching down: how could your product solve the problems of a specific market that is sub-optimally served by a broader generic product?

Back to business: for sure niching down is the way. First thing I see they lack - other languages. They focused on english speaking customers. Given my app will be super simple - landing page and user panel (or even simpler - panel with really short landing page below) I could easily translate it to multiple languages in no time. Then, I could do what Angry Birds' did - they went country by country in Europe to get on top.

And to be honest - when I clicked first link I was like "Sooo, where they are generating docs here?". It's only second link that actually showed what I was looking for.

Regarding the pricing, consider keeping it super simple at be prepared to test various pricing options. If you decide to niche down then the niche may also signal certain pricing.

Yes, seems like I'd be more expensive than Formstack. The actual question is: is that a good starting point what I came up with already? I mean - per page cost?
 

aeden

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Yes, seems like I'd be more expensive than Formstack. The actual question is: is that a good starting point what I came up with already? I mean - per page cost?

I cannot say. Conversations with your initial customers will likely be the way to determine how they see the value. Do they see value in the number of pages created, or do they see value in the number of organization members that use the service (per-seat pricing)? Or do they see the value in some other way (flat pricing, feature-based pricing, etc)? Anything you come up with independent from your customers is only hypothesis and must be tested to confirm or refute.
 
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jeandearme

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After a bit of work I wanted to present you working prototype: Templating app

Couple of things:
- even though I have pricing in place payment option is still not in implemented
- I'm not sure if site is self-explanatory enough so thoughts on that welcome

Would love to hear some feedback from you guys! Shortly I want to get it from here to full production mode :)
 
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becks22

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I did a trial run of Formstack a few weeks ago. I actually hated it. I didn't find it intuitive it all. There's always a need if it's a better product than the competitors.
 

jeandearme

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I did a trial run of Formstack a few weeks ago. I actually hated it. I didn't find it intuitive it all. There's always a need if it's a better product than the competitors.

What did you hate the most about it? I just released prototype and would love to implement feedback from someone who is actually in that market!
 
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becks22

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I just wanted to do things that it didn't allow and it wasn't intuitive for me to use. It's hard to explain but I wanted to use everything formstack had to offer because of all the integrations. I wanted everything under one roof but I just couldn't get it to work for me so I separated it out and am not using a few different programs. Maybe I'll come back to it eventually when I can outsource certain things but I'm doing the day to day ops right now for my business and I'm not going to use a program I hate just because it seems to check all my boxes. Probably not super helpful though- sorry
 

jeandearme

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I just wanted to do things that it didn't allow and it wasn't intuitive for me to use. It's hard to explain but I wanted to use everything formstack had to offer because of all the integrations. I wanted everything under one roof but I just couldn't get it to work for me so I separated it out and am not using a few different programs. Maybe I'll come back to it eventually when I can outsource certain things but I'm doing the day to day ops right now for my business and I'm not going to use a program I hate just because it seems to check all my boxes. Probably not super helpful though- sorry

I see. Have you checked on my app - I basically released it today? You can find it here. Would something like that work for you?
 

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Hey I did not but I did review your website. The bulk document generator wasn't my main purpose of formstack. I really wanted to use the forms first and then the other features secondary.
I do like your website though-- it's very clean and the green color with the icons is pretty and really stands out.
I found a error in the FAQ. It's not really grammatically correct to say
Also you can use limited version for free.
You might want to add in the word the before limited
 
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jeandearme

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Hey I did not but I did review your website. The bulk document generator wasn't my main purpose of formstack. I really wanted to use the forms first and then the other features secondary.
I do like your website though-- it's very clean and the green color with the icons is pretty and really stands out.

First feedback officially received. Appreciated!

I found a error in the FAQ. It's not really grammatically correct to say
Also you can use limited version for free.
You might want to add in the word the before limited

Good catch! Now I'm humbled that you actually read through all the page. Already fixed that one - thanks again!
 

jeandearme

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This is the service I use for form creation. My app requires PDF forms and this is the best one I have found so far. Anvil - Streamline Information Gathering. Automate Workflows.

The UI is way better than Formstack imo. You might be able to glean some insight from them.

Really nice website - I already like their animations and use cases page. Thanks for the link - definitely helpful!
 
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jeandearme

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Quick update: I officially launched a month ago and I already have 22 customers.

I thought through again how to price it and this is what is working for me:
34931
Even though couple of people said that I should've limited number of spots and lower price a bit (because Lifetime Deals tend to be around $49) I'm happy with it because I get customers that really need that.

So far I'm getting close to $2k revenue which because I only invested my time it's the actual net profit. Then we have around 5.5% of comission from Paddle (+ 15 euro fee for bank wire once a month if payout threshold met) which I'm totally fine given they get all the taxes hurdle on them.

So far most people request for API/webhooks option which might introduce actual costs because right now everything is done in the browser (that's why I have almost no costs right now), but if I start getting customers that pay monthly/yearly then business should be fine.

Now I'm thinking: should I start advertising my app via Facebook/LinkedIn using money I earned here already? So far I put no money in this project except for domain cost. What would you do in such situation?
 

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What is your market?

If its people who are rather rich and too lazy to open Word then go ahead.

And as far as i can tell Word has exactly this function already.

If its small businesses i don't see how would people invest in app that replicates what they already do.

Mind that not every business has 10,000 letters to send and that those small business rather have the time to spare so its not a pain point for all of them.

I wonder how would you take if from there.

I've read once about simple online check writing website that was making 5 figures a month, so who knows?
 

jeandearme

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What is your market?

If its people who are rather rich and too lazy to open Word then go ahead.

And as far as i can tell Word has exactly this function already.

If its small businesses i don't see how would people invest in app that replicates what they already do.

Mind that not every business has 10,000 letters to send and that those small business rather have the time to spare so its not a pain point for all of them.

I wonder how would you take if from there.

I've read once about simple online check writing website that was making 5 figures a month, so who knows?

My market is SMB, but more on the small side.

It's not about being rich or lazy - Word has bigger learning curve, for sure. To be honest, I first heard of this function in MS Word after I released my product. I'm bringing ease of use to the table - people don't want to think and scratch their heads. They want it to be easy and transparent.

After all - if they wouldn't find it helpful, they wouldn't pay I guess.
 
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My market is SMB, but more on the small side.

It's not about being rich or lazy - Word has bigger learning curve, for sure. To be honest, I first heard of this function in MS Word after I released my product. I'm bringing ease of use to the table - people don't want to think and scratch their heads. They want it to be easy and transparent.

After all - if they wouldn't find it helpful, they wouldn't pay I guess.

So i was wrong. Now you can look around in Word and Excel and make apps for other things that those behemoths do.
 

jeandearme

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How does this differ to using Mail Merge in MS Word?

EDIT: If you're already making $2k/mo maybe it doesn't matter that people can do this in MS Word already :rofl: I took a look at the site and you have some neat features!

Yes, and there are more to come. Probably even API which Word won't have in any time soon :)

So i was wrong. Now you can look around in Word and Excel and make apps for other things that those behemoths do.

That's actually a business model on it's own. Forgot how it's called, but you take i.e. Craigslist and then select one of the categories and you can make a whole business around it. My angle is to make things easier for users.

And regarding Excel - actually a lot of apps compete with Excel because you can do a lot in it (including programming and scripts). The question is who is gonna learn it?
 
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jeandearme

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@eliquid I thought I will directly ask for little help. I have launched my SaaS last month and through LTD's (lifetime deals) I have now 22 customers. There is also community group for the app with 38 members (no requirement to be a customer, feel invited to check it out). I once made a survey about use cases/market my customers are in and out of (only) four answers there were:
I'm thinking now how can I push it further.

On Facebook Lifetime Deals groups (the only source of customers I've done right now) the only way to get new customers is to add API (which is planned, but will take a bit of more time), but I'm thinking: "If I got 22 customers for what I already have then there must be at least 10x more out there that need this exact tool as is".

Ideas to explore that I have right now are:
  • talk to these customers that answered my survey because they seem to care the most (even thought about offering them one live call to talk to me directly about their challenges at work so I can improve the tool for them). One guy (real estate) was so kind and generous to talk to me for 2 hours about LTD's groups' expectations so I might start talk to him about it first.
  • going after each of these four markets after having all the talk
  • launching paid ads?
  • move on to something with bigger perspectives (but from what I know it's about execution, not idea)
What would you be your approach? Or maybe what questions should I ask myself?
 
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eliquid

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@eliquid I thought I will directly ask for little help. I have launched my SaaS last month and through LTD's (lifetime deals) I have now 22 customers. There is also community group for the app with 38 members (no requirement to be a customer, feel invited to check it out). I once made a survey about use cases/market my customers are in and out of (only) four answers there were:
I'm thinking now how can I push it further.

On Facebook Lifetime Deals groups (the only source of customers I've done right now) the only way to get new customers is to add API (which is planned, but will take a bit of more time), but I'm thinking: "If I got 22 customers for what I already have then there must be at least 10x more out there that need this exact tool as is".

Ideas to explore that I have right now are:
  • talk to these customers that answered my survey because they seem to care the most (even thought about offering them one live call to talk to me directly about their challenges at work so I can improve the tool for them). One guy (real estate) was so kind and generous to talk to me for 2 hours about LTD's groups' expectations so I might start talk to him about it first.
  • going after each of these four markets after having all the talk
  • launching paid ads?
  • move on to something with bigger perspectives (but from what I know it's about execution, not idea)
What would you be your approach? Or maybe what questions should I ask myself?

I dont want to sound harsh, but I would say you have too little info to do anything with.

Which is one of the reasons in my threads about SaaS on this forum, I push for building what you are already the authority of.

In my SaaS's, I had the same issue. Out of 20k customers ( example numbers ), only maybe 3,000 of those will open a survey email I send.

Of those 3,000 open, I will maybe get 40 survey results.

Out of those 40, only 30 will be legit.

Out of those 30, I have too little to even do anything with.

Why?

Because you have to understand those 30 people to really know what's going on.

Half of those 30 might have came from a lifetime deals group. The other half random places online.

It might be the lifetime deal group is just more responsive, but it doesn't mean what they say is what you should build.. my other 20,000 paying customers aren't lifetime deal group members.. they are busy professionals or freelancers who think differently.

But because you listen to those 15 lifetime deal group members, you only build features for them. And those people want lifetime deals, not paying you monthly recurring income.

See where those people who preach "surveying people" get it all wrong?

Lifetime deal people just want a near free special deal that they might have FOMO over. That's how AppSumo works.

Most of the companies that go on AppSumo are never to be heard of again, or make sure once you buy the lifetime deal, they push you in a recurring one later over some kind of benefit or feature or other issue.

Your cross section of people is just too small to listen to. Even if you had a larger group of people, you need to build what your an authority in, not listen to customers who most times do not know what they want and maybe will hand you $9 for a lifetime deal because of FOMO, but will not hand over $49 monthly when it comes time to pay the piper.

People will nag you all day long about what they want. But then vanish when its time to pull out the pocket book every month.

If I were to listen to any group of people, it would be the people willing to hand me money every month in a SaaS, not lifetime deal people who will want to suck more out of you for the 1 time price they paid.

That would be like me going to buffet and paying 1 time and trying to make them cook me all kinds of meals for that 1 time price, rather than eat whats on the buffet. A buffet wont be able that long doing that. Don't cater to cheap people looking for deals.
 
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jeandearme

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I dont want to sound harsh, but I would say you have too little info to do anything with.

Which is one of the reasons in my threads about SaaS on this forum, I push for building what you are already the authority of.

In my SaaS's, I had the same issue. Out of 20k customers ( example numbers ), only maybe 3,000 of those will open a survey email I send.

Of those 3,000 open, I will maybe get 40 survey results.

Out of those 40, only 30 will be legit.

Out of those 30, I have too little to even do anything with.

Why?

Because you have to understand those 30 people to really know what's going on.

Half of those 30 might have came from a lifetime deals group. The other half random places online.

It might be the lifetime deal group is just more responsive, but it doesn't mean what they say is what you should build.. my other 20,000 paying customers are lifetime deal group members.. they are busy professionals or freelancers who think differently.

But because you listen to those 15 lifetime deal group members, you only build features for them. And those people want lifetime deals, not paying you monthly recurring income.

See where those people who preach "surveying people" get it all wrong?

Lifetime deal people just want a near free special deal that they might have FOMO over. That's how AppSumo works.

Most of the companies that go on AppSumo are never to be heard of again, or make sure once you buy the lifetime deal, they push you in a recurring one later over some kind of benefit or feature or other issue.

Wow, that's actually very true.

Your cross section of people is just too small to listen to. Even if you had a larger group of people, you need to build what your an authority in, not listen to customers who most times do not know what they want and maybe will hand you $9 for a lifetime deal because of FOMO, but will not hand over $49 monthly when it comes time to pay the piper.

People will nag you all day long about what they want. But then vanish when its time to pull out the pocket book every month.

If I were to listen to any group of people, it would be the people willing to hand me money every month in a SaaS, not lifetime deal people who will want to suck more out of you for the 1 time price they paid.

That would be like me going to buffet and paying 1 time and trying to make them cook me all kinds of meals for that 1 time price, rather than eat whats on the buffet. A buffet wont be able that long doing that. Don't cater to cheap people looking for deals.

Yes, that's why when LTD guys asked me for a roadmap I said I don't have any - because I don't want to feel under pressure. So I went with you pay for what is here right now plus possible updates (and I do update app - recently with nice selection of filters and possibility of chaining them together). A lot of questions were also about API but that would introduce actual costs so I dropped it for now.

I just realized that ok, I made $2k, but it's still one-off cash injection. Out of 22 customers none is paying monthly. So business will slowly turn into hobby if I won't think of good source of monthly paying customers.

On this particular point of time of this business: what can I do and where should I head with it? Leave it up to SEO long tail keywords (because there is no upkeep cost going on) and move on to something better (there is only ONE direct competitor - so market is to small or just nice which is good)?
 
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eliquid

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Wow, that's actually very true.



Yes, that's why when LTD guys asked me for a roadmap I said I don't have any - because I don't want to feel under pressure. So I went with you pay for what is here right now plus possible updates (and I do update app - recently with nice selection of filters and possibility of chaining them together). A lot of questions were also about API but that would introduce actual costs so I dropped it for now.

I just realized that ok, I made $2k, but it's still one-off cash injection. Out of 22 customers none is paying monthly. So business will slowly turn into hobby if I won't think of good source of monthly paying customers.

On this particular point of time of this business: what can I do and where should I head with it? Leave it up to SEO long tail keywords (because there is no upkeep cost going on) and move on to something better (there is only ONE direct competitor - so market is to small or just nice which is good)?

If you are not an authority of some kind in it, I would move to another project.

Reason being is the next hurdle you come to, you will be at the mercy of someone else telling you the next step. Again, and again, and again. You don't want that.

If you stick with this project though, I would not do SEO or PPC. I would find a way to get others to spread your product for you. That is the best course of action for a product that has no history or brand build up ( a new product ). Other people will have to vouch for you.

That, or go on AppSumo and keep trying to get 1 time customers and find a way to later monetize them.

In a way, AppSumo is vouching for you. Remember this.
 

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If you are not an authority of some kind in it, I would move to another project.

Reason being is the next hurdle you come to, you will be at the mercy of someone else telling you the next step. Again, and again, and again. You don't want that.

Exactly, always behind someone. Not a great place to be. Is there any resource that I can read about becoming authority? I find myself always getting back to researching exotic cars prices, but I can't think about making business out of it lol so I need to find something that I can solve for people.

If you stick with this project though, I would not do SEO or PPC. I would find a way to get others to spread your product for you. That is the best course of action for a product that has no history or brand build up ( a new product ). Other people will have to vouch for you.

I think the simplest way would be just to set up simple referral system and give it to current customers I think and let it live it's own life.

That, or go on AppSumo and keep trying to get 1 time customers and find a way to later monetize them.

In a way, AppSumo is vouching for you. Remember this.

After reading this Twitter mega thread where I learned that AppSumo takes 75% commission and the hurdles of sudden spike in customers I was so out. I want quality customers that I really like and I must say I'm lucky so far to have them like that. Maybe it's because price is not what typical LTD costs and only people that really needed that got it.

Also keeping money for 30 (or even 60) days is not my cup of tea. That's why I give 7 because it's enough to check everything if someone really uses the tool (especially it's really simple tool!). And keeping money in the bank for that long in case someone wants a refund is just not fair.
 

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@eliquid flash news: yesterday one guy pinged me that he wants to buy my business. To be honest, I didn't expect that one after just 2 months after first release.

So far I have 23 customers (all from LTD deal) with no marketing budget so pure profit.

I asked for a number (because it's hard for me to tell how much could I ask for it) and after few questions and day later he came up with $10k USD price (because I have no recurring revenue customers) so my question is: should I even sell it and cash out or just treat it as an indicator of interest and double-down on it?
 
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@eliquid flash news: yesterday one guy pinged me that he wants to buy my business. To be honest, I didn't expect that one after just 2 months after first release.

So far I have 23 customers (all from LTD deal) with no marketing budget so pure profit.

I asked for a number (because it's hard for me to tell how much could I ask for it) and after few questions and day later he came up with $10k USD price (because I have no recurring revenue customers) so my question is: should I even sell it and cash out or just treat it as an indicator of interest and double-down on it?

I'd take the money if:
  • You are having a hard marketing this.
  • You are having a hard time getting people to sign up.

There are a number of reasons why any of the above could be happening. But if you can't dial in the marketing or can't get customers to get onboard, then you have a serious issue.

And if you can not solve that issue, then it would be better to take the cash now you have, and invest that into something you can market easily and get signups easily for.

Thanks
Jason
 

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