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HOT TOPIC Anyone have experience renovating absolute run down homes?

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MoreValue

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Since I do not have enough room to run my own business. Essentially a manufacturing business.

I will need my own home.
So either get a home in a bad neighborhood where the home is live-able or buy a home in a good neighborhood that is absolutely run down.

When I mean run down, I pretty much have to replace everything. I believe I can haggle down the home price to about $90k.
Although I can't live in this house right away to build my real business, is it worth it?

This in itself is its own business and already going through the costs and extremely expensive with all the tools/materials again and paying that mortgage. Now I will probably have room for the machines, but no money for them...sigh

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
 

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Since I do not have enough room to run my own business. Essentially a manufacturing business.

I will need my own home.
So either get a home in a bad neighborhood where the home is live-able or buy a home in a good neighborhood that is absolutely run down.

When I mean run down, I pretty much have to replace everything. I believe I can haggle down the home price to about $90k.
Although I can't live in this house right away to build my real business, is it worth it?

This in itself is its own business and already going through the costs and extremely expensive with all the tools/materials again and paying that mortgage. Now I will probably have room for the machines, but no money for them...sigh

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
If you move to the midwest you can buy a nice home for that price that you can live in immediately and won't have to renovate. Hell, you'd probably have enough left over to set up a good size warehouse in your back yard too.
 

Lex DeVille

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Since I do not have enough room to run my own business. Essentially a manufacturing business.

I will need my own home.
So either get a home in a bad neighborhood where the home is live-able or buy a home in a good neighborhood that is absolutely run down.

When I mean run down, I pretty much have to replace everything. I believe I can haggle down the home price to about $90k.
Although I can't live in this house right away to build my real business, is it worth it?

This in itself is its own business and already going through the costs and extremely expensive with all the tools/materials again and paying that mortgage. Now I will probably have room for the machines, but no money for them...sigh

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
Oklahoma - $135,000


 

Ninjakid

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Can I just be blunt and say I think this is a terrible idea?

I have firsthand experience renovating homes, as I used to do it many years ago. I promise you it's a frustrating amount of work. Both expensive and time-consuming. However, many people on a budget buy homes and renovate them, so it's not a terrible idea in that sense.

But starting a manufacturing business in your home...

Now you need a sufficient electrical supply for all those machines, you have to have your home comply with local regulations, and then the fact you're running an industrial business in a residential neighbourhood... I don't see this being legal unless you buy an industrial property and are planning to live there (which actually could work if you really wanted, but I don't recommend it).

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
They acquire the capital by investment, not with their job.
 

broswoodwork

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Since I do not have enough room to run my own business. Essentially a manufacturing business.

I will need my own home.
So either get a home in a bad neighborhood where the home is live-able or buy a home in a good neighborhood that is absolutely run down.

When I mean run down, I pretty much have to replace everything. I believe I can haggle down the home price to about $90k.
Although I can't live in this house right away to build my real business, is it worth it?

This in itself is its own business and already going through the costs and extremely expensive with all the tools/materials again and paying that mortgage. Now I will probably have room for the machines, but no money for them...sigh

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
Depending upon how run down you're talking, it may become very difficult to find financing. I love fixing up places though.
 

broswoodwork

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How much space do you need @MoreValue ? If this is the only thing holding you back, and you're near Boston, I can try help you out. I'm moving into a place that's a little too big, and I'll trade you space for a few hours of week of work. Don't know if that type of barter deal is on your radar?
 
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MoreValue

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If you move to the midwest you can buy a nice home for that price that you can live in immediately and won't have to renovate. Hell, you'd probably have enough left over to set up a good size warehouse in your back yard too.
Based on my job field, salaries and home prices correlate. If cost of living drops so will my income. Not sure about other job fields though.

edit: just got a job in my home state anyways...that took quite some struggle.

Can I just be blunt and say I think this is a terrible idea?

I have firsthand experience renovating homes, as I used to do it many years ago. I promise you it's a frustrating amount of work. Both expensive and time-consuming. However, many people on a budget buy homes and renovate them, so it's not a terrible idea in that sense.

But starting a manufacturing business in your home...

Now you need a sufficient electrical supply for all those machines, you have to have your home comply with local regulations, and then the fact you're running an industrial business in a residential neighbourhood... I don't see this being legal unless you buy an industrial property and are planning to live there (which actually could work if you really wanted, but I don't recommend it).


They acquire the capital by investment, not with their job.
Being blunt is good :)

I guess I find this renovation stuff kinda fun as well.

I do not think my machines require that much electricity. But many people run home based businesses. So I don’t understand why they would restrict me either. Home based manufacturing: Sewn products. Most people probably wouldn’t even know I am running a business in my home.

I think zoning problems come up when actual customers are coming to a storefront.

I did look at industrial spaces, but their lots are huge. Way more than I need and way expensive.

Trying to avoid borrowing money from business like the plague. I want control. The only thing I’m ok with borrowing money for is a mortgage.

Depending upon how run down you're talking, it may become very difficult to find financing. I love fixing up places though.
Ok, will keep in mind. This is a foreclosure I’m looking at. Price history shows many price cuts. It was initially $182,000.
 
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MoreValue

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How much space do you need @MoreValue ? If this is the only thing holding you back, and you're near Boston, I can try help you out. I'm moving into a place that's a little too big, and I'll trade you space for a few hours of week of work. Don't know if that type of barter deal is on your radar?
I appreciate the generous offer!

I will probably need 1000sqft. As you know, I just recently struggled to get this job. I am like 4hrs away from Boston. Not sure if that would work lol.
 

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Ninjakid

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I do not think my machines require that much electricity. But many people run home based businesses. So I don’t understand why they would restrict me either. Home based manufacturing: Sewn products. Most people probably wouldn’t even know I am running a business in my home.
If your electrical company notices you're using an exorbitant amount of electricity, they'll absolutely know you're running a business. If you don't have the proper infrastructure then it's a hazard for you and others in your neighbourhood. I'm not sure what type of machines you require, but if it's enough to be required for manufacturing, it will definitely be an issue.
 

Dan_Cardone

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I appreciate the generous offer!

I will probably need 1000sqft. As you know, I just recently struggled to get this job. I am like 4hrs away from Boston. Not sure if that would work lol.
I have no idea what you are trying to make but is it possible to outsource the manufacturing of it and you just sell it until you make enough to reinvest back into machinery yourself?
 

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broswoodwork

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I don't think I have that much space to spare, to be honest. :D

They do have co-op workspaces, like industrial versions of wework or whatever it is, down in providence (I'd imagine in most cities). Not sure if that's closer or further for you, or if it's something you've looked into.
 

Bertram

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Since I do not have enough room to run my own business. Essentially a manufacturing business.

I will need my own home.
So either get a home in a bad neighborhood where the home is live-able or buy a home in a good neighborhood that is absolutely run down.

When I mean run down, I pretty much have to replace everything. I believe I can haggle down the home price to about $90k.
Although I can't live in this house right away to build my real business, is it worth it?

This in itself is its own business and already going through the costs and extremely expensive with all the tools/materials again and paying that mortgage. Now I will probably have room for the machines, but no money for them...sigh

How do people deal with these high capital businesses without slaving away at the job and living severely below means?
That's Tornado Alley and your 5000 SF steel building is going to fly off like a frisbee.

And that price, @Lex DeVille Lex! What will he do with all that acreage? Snowmobile wheelies? John Deere riding mower anyone?

Bro, you need to move to Berlin, NH. $35K for a good house.
You can pick up a real home in a sleepy milltown next to the hopping town, for around for $35K or as low as $16K if you are willing to clean out mildew. Average in this price category is 56K and they're in good shape but just forgotten. Look in rural NH and Maine.
You can find perfectly good 1500 SF hip roof Sears & Roebucks wood framed homes for 40-60K and throw your own steel frame up on site.
 
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MoreValue

MoreValue

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That's Tornado Alley and your 5000 SF steel building is going to fly off like a frisbee.

And that price, Lex! @Lex DeVille What will he do with all that acreage? Snowmobile wheelies? John Deere riding mower anyone?

Bro, you need to move to Berlin, NH. $35K for a good house.
You can pick up a real home in a sleepy milltown next to the hopping town, for around for $35K or as low as $16K if you are willing to clean out mildew. Average in this price category is 56K and they're in good shape but just forgotten. Look in rural NH and Maine.
You can find perfectly good 1500 SF hip roof Sears & Roebucks wood framed homes for 40-60K and throw your own steel frame up on site.
Damn those are cheap. I gotta stay near my job unfortunately. I just got it.

Maybe I will just make money at this job for several years and jump ship somewhere else. Several years is a long time though.

Did some research on Berlin, NH. Apparently it is the “Detroit of NH” Low prices and good condition homes typically means bad neighborhood
 
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Bertram

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Damn those are cheap. I gotta stay near my job unfortunately. I just got it.

Maybe I will just make money at this job for several years and jump ship somewhere else. Several years is a long time though.
Where are you trying to buy a home. Give me the name of a town and mile radius ...
Forgotten towns are everywhere.
 

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my house
As a long-time remodeler and home builder I can tell you that it always takes more work, time, and money than you expect in the beginning, even for seasoned professionals.

I've known a lot of people who have bought houses to fix up and/or flip and ended up in a huge uphill struggle because they got in over their head. A lot of them ended up underwater financially.

When buying an investment house that is run down with the intention to fix I would focus on the "bones" of the house. That means the foundation, framing, electrical, and plumbing. In an old house you will often find issues with all four of these things. You want to know what you're up against before you spend a dime. Do you have to fix a bunch of rot? Does the house need to be rewired? Re-plumbed?

House inspectors usually won't give you a full picture either because they aren't in the business of killing deals. Also, they might not want to crawl around under a house to check the entire foundation. Best to get an unbiased third party. My dad who has been building houses for 40 years offers house inspections. I think it's smart to hire someone that actually works on homes for inspections.

Location is key too. I'm not super experienced with real estate investing so I don't want to talk too much about it, but I would want to know that after I fixed up the house to be really nice that it will sell for an amount that makes me the profit I want. Don't want to have a house that is 2x as expensive as the rest of the houses on the block.
 

Bertram

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Damn those are cheap. I gotta stay near my job unfortunately. I just got it.

Maybe I will just make money at this job for several years and jump ship somewhere else. Several years is a long time though.

Did some research on Berlin, NH. Apparently it is the “Detroit of NH” Low prices and good condition homes typically means bad neighborhood
You've just lost the game.
Look, if you're going to dream up some nationwide fantasy definition of a "bad neighborhood" you've lost the game before you ever played. It's not a bad neighborhood, just not in style. That's all.
For me, any manufacturing space on site in a residential area means this is a "bad neighborhood." I love 'em. Boatyard full of shrink-wrapped vessels? Bring it. Five greenhouses? Yes maam. Distillery? Oh yeah.
But for the "typical" home buyer that's a bad place to live.
 
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I absolutely would not do this. I guarantee you can find a industrial space that is of sufficient size for low rent in your city somewhere. Unless your city is completely dead and has no industry. In which case rent for anything will be super cheap anyways.

So no. Don't go buy a wreck to fix up when you don't know anything about fixing places up either. If you were going to become a professional flipper that's a different story. You will spend time and energy learning about something that is not your main business which is far from ideal. And for what? To spend more money? To be more invested? To use up more capital? Makes no sense.

How much space do you need? In my 1 milish city, I see industrial spaces for rent that look like this:
1000 sq ft - $14.6k/yr
2300 sq ft - $25.4k/yr

It's like $1k/mo/1000 sq ft.

A $90k place is like $20k down and then you're gonna spend at least $10k fixing it up if not $30k. That's 2 years of a 1000sq ft right there.

Now can your business make more than $1000/mo within 2 years?
 

broswoodwork

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Now look, if you're going to dream up some nationwide fantasy definition of a "bad neighborhood" you've lost the game before you ever played. It's not a bad neighborhood, just not in style. That's all.
For me, any manufacturer space on site in a residential area means this is a "bad neighborhood." I love 'em. Boatyard full of shrink-wrapped vessels? Bring it. Five greenhouses? Yes maam. Distillery? Oh yeah. But for the "typical" home buyer that's a bad place to live.
There's definitely some areas that are more investor friendly. Here's some footage of a Detroit house flipper heading to home depot for 10 penny nails:
View: https://youtu.be/199UkoglNHk
 

Ing

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Been there, done that!

i would never again buy a down house and repair!
it will cost the same as a new one and you cant choose the room layout! Plus you have much work and your brain blocked for....months, years...
 

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Bertram

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As a long-time remodeler and home builder I can tell you that it always takes more work, time, and money than you expect in the beginning, even for seasoned professionals.

I've known a lot of people who have bought houses to fix up and/or flip and ended up in a huge uphill struggle because they got in over their head. A lot of them ended up underwater financially.

When buying an investment house that is run down with the intention to fix I would focus on the "bones" of the house. That means the foundation, framing, electrical, and plumbing. In an old house you will often find issues with all four of these things. You want to know what you're up against before you spend a dime. Do you have to fix a bunch of rot? Does the house need to be rewired? Re-plumbed?

House inspectors usually won't give you a full picture either because they aren't in the business of killing deals. Also, they might not want to crawl around under a house to check the entire foundation. Best to get an unbiased third party. My dad who has been building houses for 40 years offers house inspections. I think it's smart to hire someone that actually works on homes for inspections.

Location is key too. I'm not super experienced with real estate investing so I don't want to talk too much about it, but I would want to know that after I fixed up the house to be really nice that it will sell for an amount that makes me the profit I want. Don't want to have a house that is 2x as expensive as the rest of the houses on the block.
All good points but a crazy low price throws these cautions out the window.
Purchase price: $45K Remodel: $10-20K. Or maybe 4K.
Live there five years and pay puny small taxes.
How can you worry about the sale price?
You could keep it for good and lease it.
 
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MoreValue

MoreValue

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I absolutely would not do this. I guarantee you can find a industrial space that is of sufficient size for low rent in your city somewhere. Unless your city is completely dead and has no industry. In which case rent for anything will be super cheap anyways.

So no. Don't go buy a wreck to fix up when you don't know anything about fixing places up either. If you were going to become a professional flipper that's a different story. You will spend time and energy learning about something that is not your main business which is far from ideal. And for what? To spend more money? To be more invested? To use up more capital? Makes no sense.

How much space do you need? In my 1 milish city, I see industrial spaces for rent that look like this:
1000 sq ft - $14.6k/yr
2300 sq ft - $25.4k/yr

It's like $1k/mo/1000 sq ft.

A $90k place is like $20k down and then you're gonna spend at least $10k fixing it up if not $30k. That's 2 years of a 1000sq ft right there.

Now can your business make more than $1000/mo within 2 years?
I guess part of it is me viewing renting industrial space as “throwing money away”

The run down place is actually an asset. Or so I think...
Learning is not a problem ever for me. I can pick up just about anything.

Neve looked at it that way.
 
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MoreValue

MoreValue

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As a long-time remodeler and home builder I can tell you that it always takes more work, time, and money than you expect in the beginning, even for seasoned professionals.

I've known a lot of people who have bought houses to fix up and/or flip and ended up in a huge uphill struggle because they got in over their head. A lot of them ended up underwater financially.

When buying an investment house that is run down with the intention to fix I would focus on the "bones" of the house. That means the foundation, framing, electrical, and plumbing. In an old house you will often find issues with all four of these things. You want to know what you're up against before you spend a dime. Do you have to fix a bunch of rot? Does the house need to be rewired? Re-plumbed?

House inspectors usually won't give you a full picture either because they aren't in the business of killing deals. Also, they might not want to crawl around under a house to check the entire foundation. Best to get an unbiased third party. My dad who has been building houses for 40 years offers house inspections. I think it's smart to hire someone that actually works on homes for inspections.

Location is key too. I'm not super experienced with real estate investing so I don't want to talk too much about it, but I would want to know that after I fixed up the house to be really nice that it will sell for an amount that makes me the profit I want. Don't want to have a house that is 2x as expensive as the rest of the houses on the block.
Aren’t all home inspectors third parties?
Can’t imagine if one wasn’t
 

broswoodwork

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Berlin, NH's city data looks ok enough, btw. Way way up north though... you'll probably have to go to Tim Horton's for coffee. :arghh:
 

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MoreValue

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Ok, pretty much got the general gist that this is a bad idea..

My plan B was to just be extra frugal with slowlane job and save up for something that is hospitable at least. Or do the flip side, choose bad neighborhood and good condition house.
 

Bertram

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I absolutely would not do this. I guarantee you can find a industrial space that is of sufficient size for low rent in your city somewhere. Unless your city is completely dead and has no industry. In which case rent for anything will be super cheap anyways.

So no. Don't go buy a wreck to fix up when you don't know anything about fixing places up either. If you were going to become a professional flipper that's a different story. You will spend time and energy learning about something that is not your main business which is far from ideal. And for what? To spend more money? To be more invested? To use up more capital? Makes no sense.

How much space do you need? In my 1 milish city, I see industrial spaces for rent that look like this:
1000 sq ft - $14.6k/yr
2300 sq ft - $25.4k/yr

It's like $1k/mo/1000 sq ft.

A $90k place is like $20k down and then you're gonna spend at least $10k fixing it up if not $30k. That's 2 years of a 1000sq ft right there.

Now can your business make more than $1000/mo within 2 years?
You probably have not done this yourself. Bigger warehouse space is always much cheaper per sq ft. than smaller space as the utilities are exponentially higher. He can pour a concrete slab and build a steel frame on it for $7K. Done and done. And no commuting downtown!
 

MTEE1985

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Here we go again...

Dude, you need to help us out here. People are googling and searching and making recommendations but nobody really knows where to begin because you have this paranoia of divulging anything even remotely personal.

Ok, I gather you are in NE. 4 hours from Boston means you’re either western border of Mass, VT or Northern ME. Can you at least tell us that much? I’m ruling out northern NH because if you were from NH you would know that Berlin is simply a mill town that lost its mill so has been going through a transformation, hence the similarities to Detroit.

Like @Bertram said, there are little towns sprinkled everywhere up there that might have exactly what you’re looking for. Also, a “bad neighborhood” in any of thse states is a comparatively great neighborhood in many states. A bad neighborhood is Roxbury (no offense, just statistically) not Berlin.
 
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MoreValue

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Here we go again...

Dude, you need to help us out here. People are googling and searching and making recommendations but nobody really knows where to begin because you have this paranoia of divulging anything even remotely personal.

Ok, I gather you are in NE. 4 hours from Boston means you’re either western border of Mass, VT or Northern ME. Can you at least tell us that much? I’m ruling out northern NH because if you were from NH you would know that Berlin is simply a mill town that lost its mill so has been going through a transformation, hence the similarities to Detroit.

Like @Bertram said, there are little towns sprinkled everywhere up there that might have exactly what you’re looking for. Also, a “bad neighborhood” in any of thse states is a comparatively great neighborhood in many states. A bad neighborhood is Roxbury (no offense, just statistically) not Berlin.
Stamford, CT
 

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