Am I being fair?

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">This might be a little long. Sorry if it is. I need help determining if I am being fair. A little history first. I have a patent for a quick change head, for a percussion drum. I have spent the last couple of years trying to get someone to manufacture it. I finally came across a few die casting companies who can make a good product, and it would be reasonably priced to the end user. The reason it has taken so long is I have been trying to avoid die casting, honestly. The initial tooling costs are high, and I wanted a cheaper start up cost. I tried sand casting, but the pieces were garbage. You cant machine from plate, because its too expensive. So I have finally reached a point where I really don&#039;t have much choice. If this is going to work, it will be with die casting. So, I came across an old friend, and we began talking about this project, and he was really interested in it. I told him I was in the process of getting together what was needed to start. I am in need of seed money, or angel investors. He was ready to help, to the tune of $15-20k. Wow, ok. Over the course of the last few weeks, I have been talking to him, and working to get all the information I need to really pursue some investors, or at least what I think I need. What it boils down too, is I need approximately $150,000 to do this. That would cover the first 1000 pcs and operate for the first year, after which I can take the profit, and buy more stock. That cost also includes trade shows expenses, advertising in trade magazines, and a lot of other expenses that I think we will encounter. Here is where the help comes in. I told him that for $15k, I would agree to 5% for 5 years. I would be flexible on the years, maybe up to 7, and I will repay the initial investment first, without taking a dime. He is wanting an indefinite amount of years, even passing it on to his 22 year old wife, and unborn child. And he talked to some friends of his who are business owners, who told him to get 15-50% in perpetuity. What? I arrived at my figure by offering the $150k as a 50% stake. Its the only way I know to do this. Without that amount, there is no stake. His $15k, would be 10% of that half, or 5% of the total. Am I being unreasonable? There is no way to do 15%. I would still need 9 other investors at the same rate. And that would be 150% (for all 10, at 15% for $15k each) the math doesn&#039;t work. He said he just wanted to make about 15 million and retire. Wow, really? Me too. But that would be a 1000% return. I can see a lot of money being made. I cant see me giving away 50% forever. There has to be a cutoff.</div>

 

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[Phenom]

<div class="bbWrapper">I have a hard time understanding your number. Is he asking you a royalty % in exchange for his investment of $15K in your company? or equity in the company? <br /> <br /> &quot;A 15-50% in perpetuity&quot; sounds way toooooo much and especially when you start, you need that money to reinvest into your company. <br /> <br /> &quot;He said he just wanted to make about 15 million and retire.&quot; This scares me man. You sure you want him as a partner?</div>

 

[Get Right]

<div class="bbWrapper">Run.</div>

 

[treinjapan]

<div class="bbWrapper">Sounds like this guy doesn&#039;t really know what he&#039;s talking about. <br /> Highly not-recommended.</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">It could be I am not explaining it well. He is asking for 15% of any profit from this venture, without the responsibility of ownership, forever. I offered up to 5%, with a maximum of 5 years, meaning whatever we make for five years, he would get 5 of the total. I also offered a maximum percentage as an option. For example, ten times the original investment. So if he gives $15k, his return would be $150k, regardless of time frame. <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Phenom" data-source="post: 311210" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311210" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311210">Phenom said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I have a hard time understanding your number. Is he asking you a royalty % in exchange for his investment of $15K in your company? or equity in the company? <br /> <br /> &quot;A 15-50% in perpetuity&quot; sounds way toooooo much and especially when you start, you need that money to reinvest into your company. <br /> <br /> &quot;He said he just wanted to make about 15 million and retire.&quot; This scares me man. You sure you want him as a partner? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote></div>

 

[DeletedUser394]

<div class="bbWrapper">It&#039;s really hard to read your first post (paragraphs would increase legibility and probably get more responses). I was only able to read the last few lines.<br /> <br /> I&#039;d find other investors, the guy sounds like a tool.</div>

 

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[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">Sorry. For some reason i cant get the enter to work on this forum. It makes me look like a tool, or a kid. It wont let me type a nice paragraph.</div>

 

[Chris R]

<div class="bbWrapper">@ dd - are you on linked in?</div>

 

[biophase]

<div class="bbWrapper">You are asking for him to loan you $15k paid back in 5 years?<br /> <br /> Most people would do $15k to buy in for 5% ownership, which equates to 5% profit forever. If he doesn&#039;t want ownership then just have him give you a loan. Would you be willing to personal guarantee it and put up collateral?</div>

 

[Chris R]

<div class="bbWrapper">Also, from how I interpreted above, are you saying your costs to get this to market is around $150 a piece, before profit?</div>

 

[DeletedUser2]

<div class="bbWrapper">stop<br /> <br /> 15k is just not enough to even make a dent. infact it will more likely fail as a result of being under funded. your going to piss him off, and fail to reach anywhere<br /> <br /> its like going to a prostitute and saying i got 15 bucks, but your 150. she takes your money, and then you get undressed and she takes her shirt off, and suddenly, she say, ok thats enough leave.<br /> <br /> <br /> thats all your going to get for 15K. just a glimpse of the promised land.<br /> <br /> if you have a better market, and know its 150k to get there, and you can sell this, then do this.<br /> <br /> 1. make it from plate. (yes I know its expensive)<br /> 2. make 10.<br /> 3. get a hold of some guys in bigger bands. let them tour with some.<br /> 4. go to a drum manufacture, say its xxxxx dollars to make the die cast. license this from me (non exclusive) for 5 yrs<br /> 5. take the license money, get your own die cast. roll it out. <br /> <br /> <br /> this does a couple things. if you screw up your company you still get the license fee, so it insurance against failure.<br /> <br /> also creating awareness of it, via their manufacturing and distribution channels will allow you to be the &quot;second&quot; product in the market, and sell via amazon, with etc.<br /> <br /> the biggest problem you have is, your trying to make a company out of a product. but actually its JUST A PRODUCT. not a company. your missing about 90% of what it takes to be a company. (manufacturing, distribution, customer acquisition, other products, admin etc.) stop trying to make 15M and retire from a single product. you need a product line. <br /> <br /> so in this case it would be better if you did a non exclusive license with 1 or 2 of the largest drum brands.<br /> then you can do the 1 off ver.<br /> you only need enough to prove the product, and concept. let someone else take the initial burden of manufacturing.<br /> <br /> after they prove the market, and the volume of the market, you profit of the market, you can enter the market, with a big brand paving the way. and getting a piece.<br /> <br /> I were you, I would read VIGILANTES licensing thread. maybe contact him for a deal. or I could do it, or you could get a hold of stephan Key (on this forum) to do it.<br /> <br /> as for this &quot;partner&quot; for 15K, they are watching to much shark tank. RUN.<br /> <br /> the sharks get that kind of deal because they they bring a TON more experience and contacts to the floor. what does he bring&gt; 15K? meh, you can get that in a hundred places. screw that. run away from this guy.<br /> <br /> if you want PM me, ill spend 15 min on the phone with you this weekend for free. and lay it out.<br /> <br /> Good luck what ever you do, we are rooting for you<br /> <br /> Z</div>

 

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[secretentourage]

<div class="bbWrapper">^^^He pretty much nailed it.</div>

 

[JEdwards]

<div class="bbWrapper">Listen to Zen. You are thinking the money side deal the wrong way. <br /> <br /> Good luck making your idea a success.</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">Thanks for all the responses. Ill answer a few questions. First the forum wont let me construct a proper response for some reason, in the reply window. I cant use the return to add a paragraph. So whenever I make a thread, I look like a teenager who cant use punctuation or construct a proper response. Ill use the quick reply from now on, it seems to work.<br /> I am on linked in, but I haven&#039;t used it or even logged on in months. I am trying to concentrate on this problem. I have tons of things to do with the website, and the social media side of things, but I am putting them off. <br /> I was thinking of the 15K as seed money. I looked at a few investor agreements, and they all had buy out percentages, or time restraints. I would need a way to buy out the investors so I can move on at 100%. But I think zend***phin has a very good point.<br /> zend***phin: Thanks. While this is one product, I do have designs on paper for a drum pedal, and a hi-hat cymbal stand, and shells, etc... all of which are very different than what others are making. I was thinking of getting this going and using it as a basis for getting the other stuff going. But what you say makes sense. I tried approaching the big companies, but that was a prototype. Maybe if I get a few out there in the hands of a drum corpse, and a pro drummer the feedback will work for me. And as for the 15k, I was starting to think it wasn&#039;t going to work anyway. Good analogy about the prostitute. Although Im sure there would be screwing before it was over. <br /> Im still in a bit of a pickle. But I might be able to pull out. I have a friend who licensed a product through Gibralter. He agreed to introduce me to the owners, and maybe even a professional drum tech. For those reading who don&#039;t know, professional drummers only play. Their drum technician sets up and tunes everything. If the drum techs start wanting this, itll sell fast. Gibralter only does accessories, and we both agreed they might not be interested for themselves, BUT, they might know a company that would be. And they can certainly open doors I cannot. The show is in California. Im in Tennessee. It would cost roughly $5-7k to make the rings, then another $2k to get out there. <br /> I will finish reading Vigilantes thread, and maybe PM you of Mr Key this weekend. I started reading it before, but we are working crazy hours at work. Have been all year. Ill stop exhausting energy on this end, and work toward licensing. What you are saying makes sense. Thank you.</div>

 

[Chris R]

<div class="bbWrapper">DD, have you looked into wood by chance? <br /> <br /> google &quot;drums with wood rims&quot;</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">Yes I considered wood, as well as other materials, such as composites and plastics. The top and bottom ring would work okay. The middle ring holds all the tension, and needs to be very strong. It could be done, but it puts me in the same position as when people ask about metal stamping. The patent covers any material, so its all possible, but the drawings would need to be redone.</div>

 

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[Chris R]

<div class="bbWrapper">Drummers love maple birch and balsa. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /> And hey, you mentioned other things like bass drum pedals. Have you seen this:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_DZYPbUoo" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="noopener">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_DZYPbUoo</a> <br /> <br /> the duallist pretty cool for a newer double pedal concept!</div>

 

[Gale4rc]

<div class="bbWrapper">I&#039;ve never heard of a early stage seed investment for only X years, they are taking the risk. Regardless if you take this guy as your partner or not, offering 5% for 5 years is greedy. Also you would be getting &#039;stupid&#039; money (money that doesn&#039;t really help YOU as the entrepreneur) which I would avoid since it sounds like this is your first time.<br /> <br /> Listen to Zen &amp; get a partner with experience.</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">I only offered a 5 year limit because he didnt want to agree to a figure for buying him out. As I said before, the generic investment agreement we looked at had a spot for a &quot; buy back &quot; option, where after a certain agreed upon return had been reached, I could buy him out. He said he wanted a check in the mail to take care of his kids future. The child isnt even born yet. I wanted a way to severe that tie. I dont think its greedy. Maybe a bit naive.</div>

 

[biophase]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="DrummerDad" data-source="post: 311505" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311505" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311505">DrummerDad said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I only offered a 5 year limit because he didnt want to agree to a figure for buying him out. As I said before, the generic investment agreement we looked at had a spot for a &quot; buy back &quot; option, where after a certain agreed upon return had been reached, I could buy him out. He said he wanted a check in the mail to take care of his kids future. The child isnt even born yet. I wanted a way to severe that tie. I dont think its greedy. Maybe a bit naive. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I don&#039;t think I would invest in a company that had a buy back agreement that wasn&#039;t favorable to me. Why would I put up $15k risk to have my upside limited? You are selling 5% of your company to him. It&#039;s his to own and you can buy it back for whatever 5% of the company is worth in 5 years. If you want to own 100% of the company, don&#039;t sell 5% to him now. Get a loan.</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">And that is why I started this thread. To see if I am being fair. But even buying back the 5% at the future value is having an out. That sounds okay to me. He was talking about willing a paycheck to his kid in 20 years.</div>

 

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[XOthermic]

<div class="bbWrapper">hmmm depends on his talents and abilities. If he is just going to give money. Lose him now. If he is going to work like a smart dog then give him 20% right now. <br /> <br /> Dude you want to motivate him to get excited about this. <br /> <br /> You guy&#039;s should have licensed the idea. This is definitely not something that I would want to take from idea to end product. Sounds like a very high amount of R&amp;D. Very expensive too. <br /> <br /> I did a plastic injection mould and the costs are higher than i initially expected and turnaround time.</div>

 

[liquidglass]

<div class="bbWrapper">I think your offer is fair. Your &quot;friend&quot; is thinking he can just make this tiny investment and retire off of your hard work, it doesn&#039;t work that way (unless you allow it).<br /> <br /> Dump the friend, license the product, use money for other products and let him be greedy all by himself. I know I&#039;m echoing what other people have said, but even considering this guys proposal is ludicrous. I would have negotiated with him to the point of asking if he was flexible at all on his terms. If he said no, then say I appreciate the offer but it&#039;s not what I&#039;m looking for get up walk out and never look back.<br /> <br /> $15k for a lifetime piece of anything is stupidity incarnate.<br /> <br /> On the other hand if he wants to hand you $200k and you two set a definite time line to the break even point where he can start to take a piece of the pie I would highly consider his offer to the extent that his profit only pertains to the product you&#039;re currently doing and no further products. <br /> <br /> <br /> I&#039;m no expert so please don&#039;t think I am. But I&#039;ve flat out refused $50k for a startup (that I needed desperately) because the person wanted a lifetime 35% stake. This startup is being bootstrapped instead unless we find more reasonable offers. The conservative estimates within 5 years of launch are roughly $1.2m per year. You think I&#039;m going to hand over 35% of that for a little (key word) green up front?</div>

 

[Gale4rc]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="liquidglass" data-source="post: 311559" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311559" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311559">liquidglass said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I&#039;m no expert so please don&#039;t think I am. But I&#039;ve flat out refused $50k for a startup (that I needed desperately) because the person wanted a lifetime 35% stake. This startup is being bootstrapped instead unless we find more reasonable offers. The conservative estimates within 5 years of launch are roughly $1.2m per year. You think I&#039;m going to hand over 35% of that for a little (key word) green up front? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I&#039;m pretty sure this non-lifetime &#039;investment&#039; (its basically a F*cken loan the way you guys are thinking about it) in early startups only happens with un-experienced entrepreneurs taking money from friends/family</div>

 

[biophase]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="liquidglass" data-source="post: 311559" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311559" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311559">liquidglass said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I&#039;m no expert so please don&#039;t think I am. But I&#039;ve flat out refused $50k for a startup (that I needed desperately) because the person wanted a lifetime 35% stake. This startup is being bootstrapped instead unless we find more reasonable offers. The conservative estimates within 5 years of launch are roughly $1.2m per year. You think I&#039;m going to hand over 35% of that for a little (key word) green up front? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Dude you are crazy. You need the $50k or the business will never make the $1.2m. There is basically no reward to the investor. He was valuing your business at $170k at that point. He is buying a portion of your business. He is investing $50k in hopes to make $400k (based on $1.2m) or more. Did you offer to buy him out in 5 years at $400k?<br /> <br /> Would you do that if it were the other way around? <br /> <br /> I&#039;m going to start a business and I need $10k. For the $10k, I&#039;ll give you 20% of the profits for the first 5 years. Then after that, when the business really takes off, I&#039;ll give you $15k and we can part ways. Does that sound like a deal to you?</div>

 

[Guest3722A]

<div class="bbWrapper">The question that sticks in my mind about this product is: <br /> <br /> When its all said and done, will the product cost less than just simply buying a back-up drum? Because a back-up drum is much faster to just put on the drum stand and it has much more use to a drummer in several different areas.</div>

 

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[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="topherea" data-source="post: 311672" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311672" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311672">topherea said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The question that sticks in my mind about this product is: <br /> <br /> When its all said and done, will the product cost less than just simply buying a back-up drum? Because a back-up drum is much faster to just put on the drum stand and it has much more use to a drummer in several different areas. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Yes it will be cheaper. And it will be faster to change than the whole drum. On a set the drums are crowded together, so its a little tight to just pull a drum out. Also they are held in place with lock screws. On a marching snare, or toms (tri toms, quads, quints)they bolt to the frame. Not only cheaper, but faster, and they take up less storage space than a whole drum. Plus another added benefit is that if you have them on two sets of shells, they interchange. So any drum with it installed, can swap heads with any other drum, that also has it installed. If you play at home, and travel to a gig somewhere that also has it installed, just carry your top sets and pop them in place. One case to carry instead of nine.</div>

 

[Guest3722A]

<div class="bbWrapper">As a Tama guy, I&#039;ve been using their quick release technology since the 80s and I can change a drum in seconds, or, just flip it upside down and use the bottom skin if its not a skin designed for resonance. But it&#039;s very rare to go through a tom tom skin unless its just old and beat to hell OR it was manufactured wrong, and I&#039;m a basher - people have pulled their kits away from me. <br /> <br /> Most guys just re-skin their kits before a show when things are looking warn or losing tone. <br /> <br /> I&#039;ve also taught lessons for over 25 years, played in drum corps and symphony orchestras on a professional level. <br /> <br /> In a marching situation, if you&#039;re on the field in formation, you can&#039;t leave in the middle of a performance. You fake it, and maintain your steps. Many marching snare skins are made of Kevlar too because of the required crispness in tone. <br /> <br /> So far for me, at least, I see a possible use for this on a bass drum, provided it doesn&#039;t mess with the stability or angle at which it sits. Other than that, I wouldn&#039;t be interested.<br /> <br /> Your last statement though, is interesting. You said that if they&#039;re on two sets of shells, they interchange. Are you implying that on a standard kit with say a 13&quot; or 14&quot; snare, and maybe 12&quot;, 14&quot; and 16&quot; toms, one skin, regardless of the size (let&#039;s use 13&quot; as an example), will work on any drum? Meaning, I can put a 13&quot; skin on a 16&quot; floor tom, and it will have the same deep tonality I require, all the while maintaining the same tuning of the drum? If so, this would be interesting.<br /> <br /> Or are you saying,<br /> <br /> if someone has two drumsets, and the device is on both kits, they interchange? If this is what you meant, I&#039;m sorry but I don&#039;t see a benefit with this.<br /> <br /> And I truly love drums and new things, but at this point, I&#039;m not sold. But that&#039;s just me.</div>

 

[DrummerDad]

<div class="bbWrapper">Topherea: You are the first person or drummer I have met, who doesn&#039;t think this is useful. Let me see if I can change that.<br /> <br /> What if you are a professional drummer, who plays a lot with head thickness, plys and texture? You find the perfect sound at home in your personal studio. How do you copy that in the recording studio? With the quick change, you can just take the heads with you, and pop them on at the other studio. Take your sound with you. Marching bands can change colors in seconds. From a white falam head, to a black or yellow one. It could even be rehearsed and done on the field, in the middle of a show. Noone has ever been able to do that before. And you know how visual the drum corpse shows are. Imagine being the first drumline to be able to re-tune, and change head color in the middle of a show. <br /> It also allows easy access to the inside of the drum. Ever break a lug? Or have a damper or lug come loose? Then the screws just rattle until you pull a head off and fix it. Now the head just pops off. 5 seconds, instead of 15-20 minutes. You can even store stuff inside the drum, and use it as a suitcase. The head comes of in about 2 seconds (and takes about 3 to 5 to reinstall). Don&#039;t know if anyone would want to do that, but you can. <br /> And also, the statement about interchangeability was to say: a 14&quot; drum can swap heads with another 14&quot; drum so long as both are equipped with the system, regardless of type (piccolo snare, marching snare, concert snare). A recording studio can have a drum set with the base installed, and simply have a dozen top sets on a rack. You want to change tune? Grab a head and pop it on. They don&#039;t have to store a bunch of drums, just heads. And they don&#039;t have to charge valuable studio time that is wasted on tuning . The top set is under 2&quot; thick. A tom is between 6 and 10 inches deep, as you know. So they use less storage. And, you can use the top set, without the base and shell as a practice pad. No more dinging up the expensive marching shells, or the concert snare you paid a lot of money for. And the drummer is playing on the same head he/she will use for the show, so no complaints about feel and rebound. <br /> When I was in marching band, we had a lot of weather induced head breakages. The head is cold, and when you start playing a little too quick and aggressive, bang! Now you could have the drummers keep the heads in a controlled environment. And even if they break, it takes seconds to swap. Its even quicker than taking off the whole marching snare, with the shoulder harness. Im also sure it is quicker than changing a tom even with the quick mounts. <br /> One final thing, and I will stop trying to convince you. The base ring has been designed to be used as a mounting system as well. You need to see the pictures and the video on my site. But, the slots serve two purposes. One, they allow the ring to bolt to ANY lug count. Some manufacturers use different counts for different diameters. It wont matter. A 14&quot; kit will fit any 14&quot; drum shell. Secondly, the slots can be used to mount the shell to a rack, and to mount equipment to the drum itself. A microphone, or a cowbell, or even a cymbal can be bolted to the drum using the system, without adding holes. And using the base ring as a mount allows you to mount a drum to a rack, without adding a hole in the side for the rack system, which also eliminates any negative effects of mounting the drum by its shell. I would have to make a rack for this, but it wouldn&#039;t be hard. And it eliminates the need for lugs altogether. Now you can buy an expensive exotic wood shell, and not drill holes in it. Leave the beauty on display, without all the clutter of lugs, and mounts. <br /> I don&#039;t see why you wouldn&#039;t want one, except cost. And if you remove the cost of the lugs (and the time used to lay the holes out and bolt it together) and mounts, it wouldn&#039;t be far off a standard drum. If included in a set as a base price, I cant see it raising the cost by any more than a few dollars. The benefits outweigh any negatives.</div>

 

[Guest3722A]

<div class="bbWrapper">Honestly man, and this is sincerely how I feel on this. The one use where I see where this device is an absolute advance in the way things are right now with drums would be to use it on a bass drum skin on a drum set. And again, this is just me and my opinion but the reason why I see it as useful in this situation is because I&#039;ve gone through new or newer bass drum skins during performances, and a bass skin is a pain in the a$$ to replace because it has toms mounted on it and/or other things, and microphones in it, and the only way to replace that skin is to lay that drum on its side which means taking whatever is mounted on it off, pulling the mic out of it, pulling the cymbals out of the way so you can get to it and pulling it off of the drum platform so you can lay it on its side, and change that skin. And that skin is the most time consuming pain in the a$$ to change, and you can&#039;t perform effectively without a bass drum. The bass drum is the thump. That&#039;s what the audience feels. There&#039;s no way around this. The skin must be replaced with a new skin. Even if you&#039;re rack mounted without anything on it its still very time consuming.<br /> <br /> Your device appears that it would enable a quick change once the pedal was pulled away, and could be done without having to pull everything away. BUT, how would it affect the distance of the pedal from the skin? Would the drum sit at the proper angle with the device on it? Would the bass drum be secure and stable because like I said, I&#039;m a basher and the last thing I&#039;d want would be for the bass drum to slowly creep away from me. That would piss me off.<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="DrummerDad" data-source="post: 311707" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311707" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311707">DrummerDad said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> What if you are a professional drummer, who plays a lot with head thickness, plys and texture? You find the perfect sound at home in your personal studio. How do you copy that in the recording studio? With the quick change, you can just take the heads with you, and pop them on at the other studio. Take your sound with you. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> There&#039;s alot that I don&#039;t agree with with this statement. For one, if you get the perfect sound in your drum room at home, how can you say that its your drum skins and you can just take them with you to the studio? Will the studio have the same size and shape as your drum room and be made out of the same materials? Will the drums at the studio be the same materials and make/model as yours? <br /> <br /> And, technology nowadays is keeping people at home and enabling professional recordings with the use of software like protools. Also, the bottom skin is the resonance on a drum. This is what makes the drum sing. Not the top skin. The top is the tune. <br /> <br /> In addition to this, people pay big money for higher quality woods in their drumshells like maple and babinga. These shells are factory designed in such a way so that the shells themselves sing. <br /> <br /> Which brings two questions:<br /> 1. Why would I not want to use my badass set for recording and 2. Does your device restrict the natural flow that I paid so much money for?<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="DrummerDad" data-source="post: 311707" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=311707" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-311707">DrummerDad said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Marching bands can change colors in seconds. From a white falam head, to a black or yellow one. It could even be rehearsed and done on the field, in the middle of a show. Noone has ever been able to do that before. And you know how visual the drum corpse shows are. Imagine being the first drumline to be able to re-tune, and change head color in the middle of a show. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I feel your visual. The problem I have with this is we&#039;re not talking about lights here, were talking about drumskins that to an audience are little tiny dots on the field. What I&#039;m not feeling is a usefulness in the device in a marching situation.<br /> <br /> Have you ever heard of the remo pts drums? (pre-tuned system) they were here and gone years ago. Their system dealt with a lug-less quick lock device of drumskins similar to your design and even with top named remo endorsed drummers trying to push them, they were fly-by-nights. I thought they sounded great, but they couldn&#039;t handle my relentless abuse because I beat the shit out of things. Your system is an advance on this. But what was it that wasn&#039;t liked with them?<br /> <br /> Bass drum - yes<br /> Other stuff - not feeling it.......................YET <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> Not trying to be negative. I&#039;m just sharing my experience in hopes that the bases have all been covered so that your idea can knock down as many objections as possible.<br /> <br /> Again, just my opinion</div>