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A Way To Build Your $10k+ App When You're Broke...

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Lex DeVille

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One of our local colleges teaches app development. Something I recently learned was that students build other people's apps (to learn)...for free, and the concept creator (the person who came up with the app idea) retains the rights to the app once it's complete.

I'm not building an app, but thought I'd share in case you're thinking of it but you're broke. Check with your local college. Maybe they can build it. At the very least, maybe they can get an MVP up and running that you can show investors as you reach for that next level.

Yeah, they're amateur builders, but they're guided by an instructor, and remember, it's free. Even if there was a small charge, it would probably save you a lot of cash over a traditional developer.

Since a simple app costs $10k+ this might be a workaround for you. You get your app built, and students get to learn and practice. If your app ends up taking off, those students benefit from the credibility of having worked on it, so it's not like they get nothing.

Anyway, thought I'd share in case this might help someone out there trying to figure out how the F to make an app with no money.

Where to start? Call up the Computer Science department at your local college and ask about it. Or schedule a college tour and ask in person.

If they don't offer this, at least mention the benefits (like those I described above) so maybe you can plant a seed in an instructor's mind for later.

P.S. This could probably work for other things besides apps. Just gotta ask.
 

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Maxboost

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Or you can just take a Udemy course and teach yourself. What I found by taking some of these courses is that most apps are built the same way.

I don't like this idea because it violates the commandment of control. Nothing is stopping these programmers from stealing your idea and then creating a bigger, better and improved app.

This idea sounds exactly like Facebook 2.0.
 

Lex DeVille

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Or you can just take a Udemy course and teach yourself. What I found by taking some of these courses is that most apps are built the same way.

I don't like this idea because it violates the commandment of control. Nothing is stopping these programmers from stealing your idea and then creating a bigger, better and improved app.

This idea sounds exactly like Facebook 2.0.

Mindset stops them.
 

Maxboost

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Mindset stops them.
How would you know?

These students want to learn how to create apps because it can be very lucrative. They want to create the next uber, instagram, Twitter...I think it’s a bad idea to simply give away your idea and HOPE that none of these aspiring programmers takes your idea and runs with it.
 
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How would you know?

These students want to learn how to create apps because it can be very lucrative. They want to create the next uber, instagram, Twitter...I think it’s a bad idea to simply give away your idea and HOPE that none of these aspiring programmers takes your idea and runs with it.

Most computer science students I knew in college were socially awkward and more concerned with securing a slowlane software engineering job and the business skills just weren't there.
Obviously there are exceptions, but is the average computer science student going to execute better than the average fastlaner?
 

Lex DeVille

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Because they are college students. They haven't built businesses. That's why they dream of creating the next [insert unicorn app here] instead of something more practical with a higher likelihood of success. For instance, an improved plumber customer scheduling app, or an app that helps school bus drivers with route navigation. This is a mindset development issue.

Even if someone duplicated my idea, how would they replicate the years of experience backing it? While they were in school, I spent 40 hours a week driving a (hypothetical) school bus learning how route navigation is a major problem for bus drivers, and how it would need to be approached if I ever hope to get schools nationwide to adopt my solution.

So even if they love the idea, they don't have any part of the process, and probably don't understand what process is (most people don't, which is why MJ's books have such a huge impact when people first read them).

They also don't know how I think. They haven't been through the trials and tribulations I (or anyone else here) has that give us the ability to create something unique and valuable as individuals. So even if they copied my idea, they wouldn't even be on my radar as competition because we would end up with different end-products.

Going beyond that, people copy people every day. You can set up an AirBnB clone this afternoon. AirBnB won't fear you putting them out of business. In fact, they won't even know you exist, and you won't be a billionaire tomorrow.

The thing about business is, what you want to create doesn't matter. Only what you actually create.
 
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Maxboost

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Most computer science students I knew in college were socially awkward and more concerned with securing a slowlane software engineering job and the business skills just weren't there.
Obviously there are exceptions, but is the average computer science student going to execute better than the average fastlaner?

I wasn't talking about the average computer science student. I was talking about that ONE guy. Out of 30 computer science students, you don't think that not 1 of them dreams of being the next Zuckerburg? That they ALL want to work for someone? Unless you have them all sign a non compete clause and a secrecy agreement, I don't think this is a good route to take.

This has happened before with Facebook/Harvard Connect and it WILL happen again.
 

Maxboost

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Because they are college students. They haven't built businesses. That's why they dream of creating the next [insert unicorn app here] instead of something more practical with a higher likelihood of success. For instance, an improved plumber customer scheduling app, or an app that helps school bus drivers with route navigation. This is a mindset development issue.

Even if someone duplicated my idea, how would they replicate the years of experience backing it? While they were in school, I spent 40 hours a week driving a (hypothetical) school bus learning how route navigation is a major problem for bus drivers, and how it would need to be approached if I ever hope to get schools nationwide to adopt my solution.

So even if they love the idea, they don't have any part of the process, and probably don't understand what process is (most people don't, which is why MJ's books have such a huge impact when people first read them).

They also don't know how I think. They haven't been through the trials and tribulations I (or anyone else here) has that give us the ability to create something unique and valuable as individuals. So even if they copied my idea, they wouldn't even be on my radar as competition because we would end up with different end-products.

Going beyond that, people copy people every day. You can set up an AirBnB clone this afternoon. AirBnB won't fear you putting them out of business. In fact, they won't even know you exist, and you won't be a billionaire tomorrow.
Because they are college students. They haven't built businesses. That's why they dream of creating the next [insert unicorn app here] instead of something more practical with a higher likelihood of success. For instance, an improved plumber customer scheduling app, or an app that helps school bus drivers with route navigation. This is a mindset development issue.

Even if someone duplicated my idea, how would they replicate the years of experience backing it? While they were in school, I spent 40 hours a week driving a (hypothetical) school bus learning how route navigation is a major problem for bus drivers, and how it would need to be approached if I ever hope to get schools nationwide to adopt my solution.

So even if they love the idea, they don't have any part of the process, and probably don't understand what process is (most people don't, which is why MJ's books have such a huge impact when people first read them).

They also don't know how I think. They haven't been through the trials and tribulations I (or anyone else here) has that give us the ability to create something unique and valuable as individuals. So even if they copied my idea, they wouldn't even be on my radar as competition because we would end up with different end-products.

Going beyond that, people copy people every day. You can set up an AirBnB clone this afternoon. AirBnB won't fear you putting them out of business. In fact, they won't even know you exist, and you won't be a billionaire tomorrow.

The thing about business is, it doesn't matter what you want to create...only what you do create.

The thing about business is, it doesn't matter what you want to create...only what you do create.

The point that I was trying to make is that you leave these students the OPPORTUNITY/RISK to release their version of YOUR app idea FIRST and you HOPE that they won't have the drive and motivation to follow through. After all they ALREADY built the App. What is stopping them from spending 100$ for an app developer license and releasing the app before you do?

A lot of successful entrepreneurs on this forum are secretive of their products and service for fear of competition. This route seems counter intuitive.

Imagine if the Air BnB guy left his idea to a bunch of college students to program the app before officially being released in the App store, would Air BnB exixt today or in another form? Would these same college students rushed their app to market before Air BNB got off the ground? Why allow that unnecessary risk?
 

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Very interesting.

Corporations do this all the time in Spain. They have agreements with Universities and offer formation in exchange for credits and internships.

It's a great way to find new specialized talent for your company.

I wouldn't worry about "that ONE guy", remember that the idea is not what makes you succeed but the execution.

If "that ONE guy" beats you it's because you did it poorly not because "OMG-he-stole-my-idea".

And if you're doing well you'll face many copycats almost guaranteed, so who gives a f**k about ideas, be a master performer.
 

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Or you can just take a Udemy course and teach yourself. What I found by taking some of these courses is that most apps are built the same way.

I don't like this idea because it violates the commandment of control. Nothing is stopping these programmers from stealing your idea and then creating a bigger, better and improved app.

This idea sounds exactly like Facebook 2.0.

Then pay them $100 and have a lawyer draw up papers for the future court case.
 

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One of our local colleges teaches app development. Something I recently learned was that students build other people's apps (to learn)...for free, and the concept creator (the person who came up with the app idea) retains the rights to the app once it's complete.

I'm not building an app, but thought I'd share in case you're thinking of it but you're broke. Check with your local college. Maybe they can build it. At the very least, maybe they can get an MVP up and running that you can show investors as you reach for that next level.

Yeah, they're amateur builders, but they're guided by an instructor, and remember, it's free. Even if there was a small charge, it would probably save you a lot of cash over a traditional developer.

Since a simple app costs $10k+ this might be a workaround for you. You get your app built, and students get to learn and practice. If your app ends up taking off, those students benefit from the credibility of having worked on it, so it's not like they get nothing.

Anyway, thought I'd share in case this might help someone out there trying to figure out how the F to make an app with no money.

Where to start? Call up the Computer Science department at your local college and ask about it. Or schedule a college tour and ask in person.

If they don't offer this, at least mention the benefits (like those I described above) so maybe you can plant a seed in an instructor's mind for later.

P.S. This could probably work for other things besides apps. Just gotta ask.
Great write-up.

I am looking at my own product development, and one of the routes I am exploring is actually using my own university clubs and peers to do the work, as a student.

That was a killer reason WHY I didn't choose to drop out of studies.

1. I will find clubs with members who have done projects similar to mine, be it engineering, business and coding.

That may count even professors.

2. I will break up my potential product into components.

Anyone remembers cars? The top companies get their tyres, glass, safety kit and engine parts from different manufacturers and send them to a central assembly part for the actual creation.

That is the same with products like an app or a tool.

likewise, a typical website app might consist of
- front end
-back end
-UI
-security
-database
-algorithms to calculate shit
And so on....

Break the product into its components, and have the kids create each one separate from the other, at least the prototypes.

For example, Bob from engineering club may fix up the IC chips.

Mary the nerd might correct some CAD drawings.

Horton who is in web dev might draw me some versions of a good website.

Even if any one of them would like to copy my work, they would have to take the time to find all the people helping me to make the product, as universities are BIG.

Divide and conquer.


It works in real life too.

My dad who does spare parts doesn't know much about the other manufacturers on the IC or software divisions. He just 'assumes' they do his or that.

And meanwhile, the big company that uses his services happily gets their work, assembles product and earns happily ever after.



On copycats, if any...

I am not counting on them to have such a huge network or are willing to shirk studies to do the findings.

It is about as probable as lightning hitting me. Lightning does kill people, and I don't swim in rainy days, but not very often.

Of course, this may be simplistic, and I suggest that you only apply this to develop the first prototype.

Rest of the time freed up to be used to pre-sell, get investors if you need more capital and so on.

Now on the actual assembly of the product. I'm not there yet, but I have something in mind....

I can either:
- Check all the parts sent in and assemble it myself.

- Do EXTRA due diligence on getting in a small circle of people to help me do assembly, if the product is too tough.

I might hire few and hire slow.

3. The next step would be to then hire the work out to more experienced and industrial orientated freelancers or hires. Start the actual scaling.

With the preliminary work the students put in, you can have a better idea on how to communicate the needs.

You COULD take the uni students with you, and do the due diligence and spend more time to forge a relationship with them.

That may involve living with the bear in its cave to know the bear.

Mindset stops them.
Yes. Great point.

This is one of the few times I actually LIKE the Slowlane for existing. :)

Still, I would say not to reveal the 'full picture' like potential money figures or actual industrial viability.

Let them focus on working on the project for their 'own good', be it professional credibility and exposure to the industry. To each their own, as I may say.

Fair trade!
 

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Maxboost

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Great write-up.

I am looking at my own product development, and one of the routes I am exploring is actually using my own university clubs and peers to do the work, as a student.

That was a killer reason WHY I didn't choose to drop out of studies.

1. I will find clubs with members who have done projects similar to mine, be it engineering, business and coding.

That may count even professors.

2. I will break up my potential product into components.

Anyone remembers cars? The top companies get their tyres, glass, safety kit and engine parts from different manufacturers and send them to a central assembly part for the actual creation.

That is the same with products like an app or a tool.

likewise, a typical website app might consist of
- front end
-back end
-UI
-security
-database
-algorithms to calculate sh*t
And so on....

Break the product into its components, and have the kids create each one separate from the other, at least the prototypes.

For example, Bob from engineering club may fix up the IC chips.

Mary the nerd might correct some CAD drawings.

Horton who is in web dev might draw me some versions of a good website.

Even if any one of them would like to copy my work, they would have to take the time to find all the people helping me to make the product, as universities are BIG.

Divide and conquer.


It works in real life too.

My dad who does spare parts doesn't know much about the other manufacturers on the IC or software divisions. He just 'assumes' they do his or that.

And meanwhile, the big company that uses his services happily gets their work, assembles product and earns happily ever after.



On copycats, if any...

I am not counting on them to have such a huge network or are willing to shirk studies to do the findings.

It is about as probable as lightning hitting me. Lightning does kill people, and I don't swim in rainy days, but not very often.

Of course, this may be simplistic, and I suggest that you only apply this to develop the first prototype.

Rest of the time freed up to be used to pre-sell, get investors if you need more capital and so on.

Now on the actual assembly of the product. I'm not there yet, but I have something in mind....

I can either:
- Check all the parts sent in and assemble it myself.

- Do EXTRA due diligence on getting in a small circle of people to help me do assembly, if the product is too tough.

I might hire few and hire slow.

3. The next step would be to then hire the work out to more experienced and industrial orientated freelancers or hires. Start the actual scaling.

With the preliminary work the students put in, you can have a better idea on how to communicate the needs.

You COULD take the uni students with you, and do the due diligence and spend more time to forge a relationship with them.

That may involve living with the bear in its cave to know the bear.


Yes. Great point.

This is one of the few times I actually LIKE the Slowlane for existing. :)

Still, I would say not to reveal the 'full picture' like potential money figures or actual industrial viability.

Let them focus on working on the project for their 'own good', be it professional credibility and exposure to the industry. To each their own, as I may say.

Fair trade!

this i agree with. I still am not convinced revealing the whole picture is a good idea. 1st mover advantage when you have no programming experience is something you do not want to give up.
 

loop101

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this i agree with. I still am not convinced revealing the whole picture is a good idea. 1st mover advantage when you have no programming experience is something you do not want to give up.

No one is going to steal your idea, because your idea sucks. It sucks donkey cock. Just ask anybody. Every idea sucks donkey cock until it is making money, then it is a fantastic stroke of genius. Your idea is not going to be worth stealing, until it is worth something, and at that time, everyone will know about it anyway. Once you are making money, you will have two things your competitors don't, momentum and profits. If you read TMFL, you'll also have a brand. That should be enough of a headstart to stay ahead of the competition.

Also, Lex's original post was about getting an app developed for free. Unless the Udemy courses you suggested were also free, I don't see how that advice applied.

A good idea is important, because it is part of an important equation, also described in TMFL. A good idea without execution is not worth anything. If someone took Udemy courses in order to protect their idea, and was unable to grasp the coursework, how much is their idea worth? If Steve Jobs didn't involve Wozniak because he didn't want Wozniak to steal his idea, how much would his ideas have been worth?

If someone has an idea for an app, and cannot get it made unless it is made for free, then by all means they should do what they have to, to get it made. Lex was just throwing out a way to get that done.
 

Lex DeVille

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this i agree with. I still am not convinced revealing the whole picture is a good idea. 1st mover advantage when you have no programming experience is something you do not want to give up.

Not having first mover advantage doesn't mean you have no advantage and can't continue. There are people on this forum who don't develop at all who've gained multiple rounds of venture capital for an app despite not being 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 20th in their industry.

First mover advantage is only one piece of the puzzle despite what any business book says. That's why companies like Uber exists alongside Lyft instead of completely alone.

Again, without understanding the process and mindset behind the business, it doesn't matter. You may know I fold my underwear, but you can't copy and outfold me because you don't know why I do it that way.

You may know I make my bed a certain way. But if you don't have years of military experience...copy all you want, you still won't be a Soldier.
 
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Lex DeVille

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2. I will break up my potential product into components.

This is what I was referring to in regards to process earlier. You're describing work distribution up front, but it's the same. Mark Zuckerberg didn't grow Facebook to what it is alone. Other people (meaning other parts of the process) were involved beyond the initial app.

Speaking of Facebook, if I remember correctly, they didn't have first mover advantage. MySpace and Friendster were both before Facebook. In Russia there's a social platform called VKontakte which is just as well known as FB and seems to do just fine.

The point of the thread was just to show there are ways to get something off the ground even when you're broke and when what you want to create might take a minimum of $10k to gain traction.

Some of our local colleges have awards like grants for best business idea. Entrepreneurs pitch their idea for a business and the best one earns $5k to $10k to get things started. Other places put them in direct contact with investors. They have to reveal their ideas, of course, but since they're only competing at a local level, the risk/reward payoff is actually pretty good.
 

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Oh the irony...

I think I found what's going on here.

Maxboost, do you realize that Lex just shared an idea that is actionable and that could potentially make millions a year?

Yes YOU could be "that ONE guy", create a company offering businesses software engineering services while making students develop those projects in exchange for credits, experience, internships and other benefits.

Companies would outsource their work to you and you'd have an unlimited supply of talented people eager to prove themselves.

Lex, sharing the idea just lost millions.
Me, talking about it, I just lost millions.

But, did we?

The truth of the matter is that if you don't do anything you won't get anything in return.

But you're so focused on not losing that you missed the opportunity and the potential gain.

Let's say that tomorrow morning both Lex and you start making this idea come true.

If I had to bet I'd put my money on Lex.

Why? Because he would put all his focus on winning, he'd manage the risk of the potential gains... and you wouldn't.

You'd sabotage yourself because your mind would be petrified by the fear of loss. You'd end up trying to do it all by yourself while Lex would build a team.

Zuckerberg didn't become a multi-billionaire because of the idea but because he worked his a$$ off and surrounded himself by other people with the same vision. And he could have been copied by any of his own team!

As ZF Lee said, projects are composed of many different disciplines combined together, become the orchestra director, the one who knows how to put the puzzle pieces together, a master of the process.

Or in short: you don't win by playing defense.
 

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The point that I was trying to make is that you leave these students the OPPORTUNITY/RISK to release their version of YOUR app idea FIRST and you HOPE that they won't have the drive and motivation to follow through. After all they ALREADY built the App. What is stopping them from spending 100$ for an app developer license and releasing the app before you do?

A lot of successful entrepreneurs on this forum are secretive of their products and service for fear of competition. This route seems counter intuitive.

Imagine if the Air BnB guy left his idea to a bunch of college students to program the app before officially being released in the App store, would Air BnB exixt today or in another form? Would these same college students rushed their app to market before Air BNB got off the ground? Why allow that unnecessary risk?

This mental model you carry is going to have a cost on your resourcefulness.

You just closed off a very viable option for something that has an infinitesimally small risk.

If you don’t care about that, it’s fine. But it comes at a cost. All mental models do.
 

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this i agree with. I still am not convinced revealing the whole picture is a good idea. 1st mover advantage when you have no programming experience is something you do not want to give up.

If you don't want to reveal the whole picture, you can have some smoke screens up.

Don't say 'you can make millions with this product' or 'this product can hit the whole market.'

Say, 'This is an excellent opportunity to get your feet wet by becoming valuable to the marketplace as a coder/ engineer/ whatever profession'

Leave out entrepreneurial terms or anything that may tell him that something is up. Tell the fella enough to do the work.

Use SCRIPTspeak as a tool. It nearly worked to imprison us. Why not now?

This mental model you carry is going to have a cost on your resourcefulness.

You just closed off a very viable option for something that has an infinitesimally small risk.

If you don’t care about that, it’s fine. But it comes at a cost. All mental models do.
Good point on the mindset.

However, some of these students haven't been industrial-certified yet.

Not really for apps, but for other products involving some engineering or technical in-domain stuff.

Even if they create a working product, you still need to touch them up with your standard experienced freelancers or consultants or whoever else.

Even with 'lower risk', I don't think anyone should consider this route a 'silver bullet'.

Now, if you want more performance from them, you can start to build up rapport. Relationships.

Send a commendation letter on their work to their professor. Get them a pizza, gift cards. Costs way lower than $10k. Positive reinforcement for them to be more open to you.

See if they are worried about employment or industry experience. Then decide if you can fill those gaps by offering more work.:rofl:

Tomorrow is my first day in my university. I'm gonna troll the clubs, find people, meet professors and start working. Not on an app though....
 

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However, some of these students haven't been industrial-certified yet.

Not really for apps, but for other products involving some engineering or technical in-domain stuff.

Even if they create a working product, you still need to touch them up with your standard experienced freelancers or consultants or whoever else.

Even with 'lower risk', I don't think anyone should consider this route a 'silver bullet'.

Now, if you want more performance from them, you can start to build up rapport. Relationships.



I didn’t say anything about any of the things you’ve mentioned.

I don’t care that you brought them up, but it’s interesting to observe how you’ve injected a ton of meaning into my words based on your own mental models - which come at a cost of your resourcefulness.

I don’t agree or disagree with anything you said - just thought it interesting to point out.
 

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I didn’t say anything about any of the things you’ve mentioned.

I don’t care that you brought them up, but it’s interesting to observe how you’ve injected a ton of meaning into my words based on your own mental models - which come at a cost of your resourcefulness.

I don’t agree or disagree with anything you said - just thought it interesting to point out.
Well, yes. You can say my mental models derived a different meaning.

After @Maxboost talked on loss of first movers advantage, I decided to address whatever flaws of the college students strategy.

Turns out the industrial competence might be one of it.

Industrial competence doesn't means that the students cannot make a good working app. It may mean that if it undergoes harder tests due to market pressure, it may bend.

Test the market, sell in small quantities, while you beef up the product with outside help. Then launch the newer upgraded versions. The students provide the first traction.

I would still thread with caution with this route. It has its excellent benefits, but also some 'chunks in the armour'.

Fire burns and can destroy, but we still use it safely with pokers and fire grates.
 

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Imagine if the Air BnB guy left his idea to a bunch of college students to program the app before officially being released in the App store, would Air BnB exixt today or in another form?

Interesting you picked Airbnb as your example.

Have you read how the founders started the company? Seen the first "version" of Airbnb? The regulatory battles they had to fight? The complaints? The lawsuits? How they had to approach homeowners individually at first to secure listings? How they managed to transform people's mindsets from being so scared of having strangers in their homes? The pushback from the hotel industry?

Process, process, process.

So yeah I can imagine "if the Air BnB guy left his idea to a bunch of college students".

Their conclusion would be "oh, this idea doesn't work."

And when these same college kids see Brian Chesky and crew turn Airbnb into a unicorn?

"Oh man, I HAD THE EXACT SAME IDEA OMG!! These guys are so lucky they launched it at the right time/right place/they had funding/whatever other reason."
 

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inputchip

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P.S. This could probably work for other things besides apps. Just gotta ask.

Yes it can. In my mechanical engineering degree we had what is called the capstone project. Any "company" could present problems to us and we would solve the problems with fully engineered solutions sometimes including physical prototypes. We would provide 3D models and printed prototypes along with complete engineering calculations.

The students take these projects very seriously as it is the biggest project of their degree and they present their solutions in front of a panel of judges.

For any product developers, this could also be an option.
 
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amp0193

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P.S. This could probably work for other things besides apps. Just gotta ask.

In the fall I partnered with my local university's business club.

I gave them a budget of $1000 and told them to work together to find the best way to use it to market my products.

They had some good ideas, but also some not so good ones. I executed what they suggested, and showed them the results.

It was an eye-opening learning experience for them, and I got some good nuggets out of it as well!
 

Tom.V

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This mental model you carry is going to have a cost on your resourcefulness.

You just closed off a very viable option for something that has an infinitesimally small risk.

If you don’t care about that, it’s fine. But it comes at a cost. All mental models do.
100% agree. The ability to be flexible in HOW you get shit done is of paramount importance. 95% of the time fear is irrational and a purely self-imposed limit.

@SinisterLex this is golden. I'm just now wrapping up the required specifications of my MVP and I'll be making some calls first thing tomorrow. +rep
 

Conrad

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Hey guys, first of all, I'm new, but I want to share my experiences here on the forum for a better world.

SinisterLex, I am an engineer and we used to do alot of projects for big tech companies as student, even with Non Disclosure Agreements. It's fun for the students, they get real world problems to solve. The tutors/teachers than evaluate based on their problem solving skills/process and NOT the end result. If the project failed or succeeded, the professors didn't care. (Students care less, we knew we got our score based on used methods) We also knew very well that the industry wants to suck our brains for free ;-) Or for a cinema ticket for the whole team if we finished the million $$$ worth project hahah What a joke. Ofcourse none of the projects has become the next big iPhone/Tesla/Facebook

I usually never saw a students project go mainstream in my university in Belgium. The only succesful projects were heavily sponsored by multi million companies, who actualy hired professors/doctors in the specific field. Students could do the small/dirty jobs

I also hired some students for my own advertising business later on. Basically because they are cheap and easy to go. The only thing they needed to do was ride an advertising bike on a specific road. That was even too difficult. If you pay nothing, expect nothing.

Upwork is also a place were you could make applications for cheap. As everyone can agree: if you pay peanuts, expect monkeys (in my experience).

I used to work as a private maths tutor and I started as a student with €15, teaching other (younger) students . Over the years, I collected feedback from students to increase my tuition skills, so that the student understands the logic of maths quicker. I developed techniques to memorise and understand formulas very fast. But everyone can tutor for €15, right? So I needed good marketing to show people that I'm not just a student who wants to make quick buck. I had to prove that I'm not just a part-time tutor : I made a quick Wordpress website, but it looked very professional, as I asked for constructive feedback from everyone. I showed the collections of screenshots of all my positive feedback over the years that I collected and put them on my website too. My website had to look professional, because it's the first impression and a good looking website with your picture gives me also a good feeling. Now I asked €40 an hour and 1 year later increased to €80 an hour. Guess what? People are still paying me and I get more whealty clients, who want the best for their children. Everyone knows: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. If the client is not happy after 1 hour, no problem, they will move on.

So I won't trust your 10k + dream project to students, unless they can show an impressive track record with past projects accomplished.

Sorry for my english, I try my best.
 

Lex DeVille

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Hey guys, first of all, I'm new, but I want to share my experiences here on the forum for a better world.

SinisterLex, I am an engineer and we used to do alot of projects for big tech companies as student, even with Non Disclosure Agreements. It's fun for the students, they get real world problems to solve. The tutors/teachers than evaluate based on their problem solving skills/process and NOT the end result. If the project failed or succeeded, the professors didn't care. (Students care less, we knew we got our score based on used methods) We also knew very well that the industry wants to suck our brains for free ;-) Or for a cinema ticket for the whole team if we finished the million $$$ worth project hahah What a joke. Ofcourse none of the projects has become the next big iPhone/Tesla/Facebook

I usually never saw a students project go mainstream in my university in Belgium. The only succesful projects were heavily sponsored by multi million companies, who actualy hired professors/doctors in the specific field. Students could do the small/dirty jobs

I also hired some students for my own advertising business later on. Basically because they are cheap and easy to go. The only thing they needed to do was ride an advertising bike on a specific road. That was even too difficult. If you pay nothing, expect nothing.

Upwork is also a place were you could make applications for cheap. As everyone can agree: if you pay peanuts, expect monkeys (in my experience).

I used to work as a private maths tutor and I started as a student with €15, teaching other (younger) students . Over the years, I collected feedback from students to increase my tuition skills, so that the student understands the logic of maths quicker. I developed techniques to memorise and understand formulas very fast. But everyone can tutor for €15, right? So I needed good marketing to show people that I'm not just a student who wants to make quick buck. I had to prove that I'm not just a part-time tutor : I made a quick Wordpress website, but it looked very professional, as I asked for constructive feedback from everyone. I showed the collections of screenshots of all my positive feedback over the years that I collected and put them on my website too. My website had to look professional, because it's the first impression and a good looking website with your picture gives me also a good feeling. Now I asked €40 an hour and 1 year later increased to €80 an hour. Guess what? People are still paying me and I get more whealty clients, who want the best for their children. Everyone knows: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. If the client is not happy after 1 hour, no problem, they will move on.

So I won't trust your 10k + dream project to students, unless they can show an impressive track record with past projects accomplished.

Sorry for my english, I try my best.

A minimum viable product (MVP) doesn't need to work well (and in some cases doesn't need to work at all) to get an investor's attention and fuel a $10 project into a $100k, $500k or more fully backed startup.

Investors don't seem to like investing in ideas, but if you can show you've taken action and can tell the story of what you're doing well, then you can get funded and won't need to hire cheap Upwork freelancers.

I didn't say have the students build your dream. This is about getting something off the ground when you have no cash. It's about getting started. It's about overcoming obstacles and limiting beliefs that hold people back. Once they have traction and cash then they can hire qualified people to build their dream for them.

This might not be the IDEAL route...so what? If the ideal route is an option, go that route. If not, try this. Maybe I don't like to take the back road home. It has potholes. But if the highway is blocked, I'll take the back road. I won't just say, "Screw it, not going home today because I can't take the highway."

Do what works. Ready. Fire. Aim. All that jazz...

Just do it. ;)
 

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If you don't want to reveal the whole picture, you can have some smoke screens up.

Don't say 'you can make millions with this product' or 'this product can hit the whole market.'

Say, 'This is an excellent opportunity to get your feet wet by becoming valuable to the marketplace as a coder/ engineer/ whatever profession'

Leave out entrepreneurial terms or anything that may tell him that something is up. Tell the fella enough to do the work.

Use SCRIPTspeak as a tool. It nearly worked to imprison us. Why not now?


Good point on the mindset.

However, some of these students haven't been industrial-certified yet.

Not really for apps, but for other products involving some engineering or technical in-domain stuff.

Even if they create a working product, you still need to touch them up with your standard experienced freelancers or consultants or whoever else.

Even with 'lower risk', I don't think anyone should consider this route a 'silver bullet'.

Now, if you want more performance from them, you can start to build up rapport. Relationships.

Send a commendation letter on their work to their professor. Get them a pizza, gift cards. Costs way lower than $10k. Positive reinforcement for them to be more open to you.

See if they are worried about employment or industry experience. Then decide if you can fill those gaps by offering more work.:rofl:


Tomorrow is my first day in my university. I'm gonna troll the clubs, find people, meet professors and start working. Not on an app though....


When I was an engineering student, there were also alot of Dream Guys thinking this way. Oh boy, we laughed very hard at them. They were the biggest attention seekers aka 'Networkers'. We stayed miles away from this cheap sales trick. Pizza & friendship in exchange for Engineering intelligence. I wish you the best on your journey and make big profits !
 

ZF Lee

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When I was an engineering student, there were also alot of Dream Guys thinking this way. Oh boy, we laughed very hard at them. They were the biggest attention seekers aka 'Networkers'. We stayed miles away from this cheap sales trick. Pizza & friendship in exchange for Engineering intelligence. I wish you the best on your journey and make big profits !
I smell some heat up there lol.

Look, it is not wrong to help people get experience and showcase their talents.
When we take the time to talk and find out what they need, listening to them, and maybe we can exchange something in return....an agreed trade.

I won't deny that some people do scam others for their advantage.

So, I would say that if you can do it under an authoritative umbrella of a superior like an entrepreneural club or a mentor professor, go for it. The superior acts as a moderator.

If you engineers don't like such people, that's fine. You don't need to work for such people.

And on cheap sales trick?

It's actually pretty expensive to maintain a relationship.

I'm not interested in one-and-offs for relationships.

I suggested the pizza trick because it's one of the mini-events in a long line of process required to make a potentially lasting relationship, professional or not.

You don't NEED that trick always.

You can just hook up, ask how they are, see if they want to hang out, and just spend time like normal college kids. And talk about what they are interested in...mainly their course. And if they have questions on your work, answer them.

While the pizza can be PERCEIVED VALUE, the ACTUAL VALUE can be in the conversation shared, the knowledge and opinions dispensed and so on. So I would be actually delivering on my word. :)

I won't expect the engineer students to magically create an IronMan suit for me. But I do expect some nuggets here and there.

As a Fastlaner, networking is a good way of opening your eyes to the world, despite the bleakness of things. Of course though, if you need to grind without the networking, do it. At times, it won't hurt. Use networking at your own discretion.

That being said, I'm an introvert. I tried not to believe in the concept introverts and extroverts, but well, psychology is psychology.

This approach that I suggested would be MORE TIRING for me mentally than most of you. I can only practice this route on SPECIFIC individuals, namely those who already are involved in innovation and business, and who are at the position where I would like to be.

So, I don't have a lot of mental energy to 'seek attention'. ;)

Thank you, @Conrad for sharing.

Did those 'networkers' find any other solutions or routes to their lack of technical people?

And what might you suggest them to do instead?
 

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So I won't trust your 10k + dream project to students, unless they can show an impressive track record with past projects accomplished.
Yes, I would look for such students.

And yet be VERY careful and have alternative plans to use if it doesn't work out.

EDIT: I'm not hoping I have to depend on 100% this route. I have already said I am an introvert. And may be time wasting. It may, or may not be the same for you.

If I were an extrovert though, I would spend more time to talk and create relationships. Thus, my pointers.

This is more of a get the milk vs chasing the cat.

I'm currently looking at other routes.
 
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tshub

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Because they are college students. They haven't built businesses. That's why they dream of creating the next [insert unicorn app here] instead of something more practical with a higher likelihood of success. For instance, an improved plumber customer scheduling app, or an app that helps school bus drivers with route navigation. This is a mindset development issue.

Even if someone duplicated my idea, how would they replicate the years of experience backing it? While they were in school, I spent 40 hours a week driving a (hypothetical) school bus learning how route navigation is a major problem for bus drivers, and how it would need to be approached if I ever hope to get schools nationwide to adopt my solution.

So even if they love the idea, they don't have any part of the process, and probably don't understand what process is (most people don't, which is why MJ's books have such a huge impact when people first read them).

They also don't know how I think. They haven't been through the trials and tribulations I (or anyone else here) has that give us the ability to create something unique and valuable as individuals. So even if they copied my idea, they wouldn't even be on my radar as competition because we would end up with different end-products.

Going beyond that, people copy people every day. You can set up an AirBnB clone this afternoon. AirBnB won't fear you putting them out of business. In fact, they won't even know you exist, and you won't be a billionaire tomorrow.

The thing about business is, what you want to create doesn't matter. Only what you actually create.
Awesome stuff,?love the part where you said "... What you are building doesn't matter, just what you actually build.. "

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk
 

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