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INTRO+ 30 year old millionaire but traded my time for money

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Alan G

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Dec 29, 2018
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Hi everyone,

I managed to save 1.2 million USD from playing online poker and can still earn around 20-30k USD per month playing but I no longer enjoy the game and also don't like trading my time for money. I am a natural extrovert and dislike having spent so many years in front of computer screens alone. I chose poker as a career path because I knew I could work hard and make enough money to buy my financial freedom, at least as a single guy. My plan was to keep investing and working until I save 3 million so that I could then at least have the option to have kids and a family in a first world country without any financial stress and plenty of time to spend with my future kids.

However I find myself now at age 30 having no passion and feeling somewhat like a wage-slave trading my time for money and adding absolutely zero value to the world and just taking money from gamblers. After reading MJ's books I am considering starting some kind of business that actually helps the world and if I can make a living off it just to cover my cost of living the money I have already saved will compound to have more than enough money in the future. I imagine it will be significantly more fulfilling than what I am doing currently given it actually has purpose and meaning.

I am not sure if I am being too idealistic or if I should just continue for the next few years trying to bank as much poker money as possible. Or on the other end of the spectrum maybe I will end up becoming richer than poker ever could have made me from the entrepreneur path.

I write this post to get ideas from entrepreneurs who may have been in a similar situation with high opportunity cost (i.e traders, doctors, lawyers, bankers etc) and to seek their advice or hear of their experiences.

I am also looking for ideas on where to start if I choose this path as I am not confident in myself since I have no skills or experience other than poker. I imagine people start their first business in their field of expertise but in my situation I want nothing to do with poker and therefore have no field of expertise. I have a bachelor of business administration and two masters degrees (commerce and int. business) with perfect GPAs but I felt I learned more from MJs books than the 6 years of university combined, and the only value from these degrees is to lead a slightly better but still scripted life through working for someone else (I hope this is not the case, if there is some use for university degrees from quality institutions as an entrepreneur please let me know).

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read my post and good luck with all your endeavours, I am excited to interact with people who have the courage to go their own way in life and add value to the world.

Alan G
 

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Envision

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Hey man,

Thats pretty awesome to have made that much money from poker. If I were in your shoes id continue playing to fund my lifestyle and save meanwhile begin investing anywhere from 100-500k into real estate.

Once you've determined a means and repeatable process for passive income, its just a matter of acquiring more real estate, business, (whatever doesnt involve your time), until you are making what you were with poker.
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Thanks Envision I really appreciate your reply. I am most likely going to follow your advice because it really is the safest way to buy true financial freedom but part of me just does not enjoy the process any more, there is a feeling of lack from just taking money as opposed to adding value.

As for real estate, I place a value on freedom and I currently have my money in stocks bonds and REITs (so I do have some exposure to real estate via a Vanguard REIT), but while I know physical real estate is a fantastic investment I don't like the idea of being tied down to any one place and enjoy freedom of movement

Right now I just moved to Chiang Mai in Thailand because its great value for money and allows me to meet entrepreneurs and potentially get involved in that world. Although I guess with such a good gig from poker it might not make sense for me to work insanely hard for what will most likely never be close to the money I can receive from poker.

I guess part of me is thinking if I add another 200k to my net worth this year from poker but learn no new skills or meet any new people and I go from 1.2 mil to 1.4 mil then it feels nearly like a "waste" of a year doing something I am not engaged with when the most precious commodity we have is time. Also poker income will be diminishing over time as the player pools get better and more professionals and computer programs enter the industry. But if I start some sort of business I am passionate about even if I make no money as long as I don't lose money then I haven't really wasted the year because I have engagement and enjoyment in the process. And going back to the other side of the spectrum, if I make no money and the stock market crashes and I lose 50% of my net worth and poker income is then dried up to sub 100k a year I am going to cry and tell myself how dumb it was trying to start a business and add value to the world :p

I think mainly I am just envious of the idea of being in a team of people with good character doing good things for the world. Maybe I should just get a job as a sales guy in any sort of start up and go from there :D
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Hi 404profound,

I have thought about doing that and it makes a lot of sense and would leverage my area of expertise, the only issues I see doing it are:

- The hours spent making and marketing the course may not add up to more than what I would make simply playing poker on my own (Although this is hard to really know)
- Teaching the player pool good strategies means I will make less from my own playing
- I would be just as dispassionate making a course about poker as I am playing :p

That being said I really appreciate the idea and your reply!

Another idea I have had is I am somewhat passionate about the financial markets and investing and thought about creating a youtube channel focusing on the markets and how to invest globally. It would add value to the world in the sense that even if people are wage slaves at least I can help them make better financial decisions to one day be financially free and have the option not the obligation to work.

If I were to do this it would mean stopping playing poker and living off savings as well as investing in video and lighting equipment and computers for video editing etc. It would be enjoyable but I can't see myself making any money off it for a long time, although in the best case scenario years down the track I can sell courses and programs on how to best manage your money without giving huge fees to investment firms who charge crazy prices for very little value added.

I have a lot of knowledge in the area of investing just from reading many books but I have zero experience other than managing my own money. There are many legendary investors who started out as poker players (e.g Sir John Templeton) so maybe that gives me some level of credibility. I guess I just don't quite know how or can't quite see how to monetize it and I also will break the commandment of control if I make all of my content on youtube videos.
 

lowtek

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Welcome to the forum, Alan.

I dunno man, if I had a skill set paying 20k per month... I'd probably keep doing it a few more years and roll the money into real estate to generate "passive" income. Depending on your lifestyle, within that time frame you could have over 1x your monthly expenses coming in, and then you're basically free.

When you switch gears into business, it's going to take quite a while to figure what you're doing. It probably took a while to learn how to play poker at the level you're at... it will take at least that long to learn the game of business. While you may not enjoy poker anymore, getting beat down by the market while you learn from the school of hard knocks isn't much fun either.
 
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Alan G

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Dec 29, 2018
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Chiang Mai
Hi lowtek,

You make a very fair argument. If I was to change gears and start at the bottom in a new area like business I would downgrade my lifestyle to 50k usd a year (probably at around 80k now) and hopefully not get owned by the market.

The only thing is I would hate to look back in 30 years from now if I built some massive business that I am passionate about and think why did I not start this business at 30 instead of 35? Because I wanted to scrape together some more money from doing something I didn't like when I ended up making way more money than I needed anyway?

I can imagine scenarios which make continuing poker a stupid idea but also scenarios which make not continuing poker a stupid idea so I am a bit lost at the moment, but of course will continue with the status quo of poker, especially if the vast majority of responses from this forum suggest so. You guys know infinitely more than me about entrepreneurship so I am really thankful you take the time to read my post and respond and hope to one day pay it back!
 

AgainstAllOdds

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Right now I just moved to Chiang Mai in Thailand because its great value for money and allows me to meet entrepreneurs and potentially get involved in that world.
Join this community and tap into their network. I've heard good things about the quality of people they have in southeast Asia: http://www.tropicalmba.com/dc/.

Meeting random "entrepreneurs" in Chiang Mai (co-working space, going out, etc.), is likely a waste of time. Sure, there might be some successful entrepreneurs, but there's a lot more $30,000 a year "digital nomads" that decided to move to the cheapest nice place they could find. I've been to CM a few times and was sorely disappointed in the quality of people multiple times.


As for your main concern, no one on this forum can tell you what to do. You have to figure that out for yourself, and from the responses you're giving, my guess is that you'll make that decision yourself.

But if you care, here's what I'd do in your shoes:
  • Work Monday and Tuesday on poker; cover your $80k a year expenses
  • Work Wednesday to Sunday on your business project
I'd also limit the amount of money you're putting into your business to start. I'd make small bets and wouldn't go in more than $10,000 at a time. Make a small bet, see how it works out, and once you gain confidence, put more money into that business.

As for previous suggestions of getting into real estate: Lease an apartment. Hire an airbnb management company to then rent it out. See how much you like the process. If you like it, start purchasing property in places you want to have a house, and have an airbnb management company manage it. You'll generate the passive income you're looking for while maintaining geographic freedom.

If you want to shoot at something in the dark, then consider buying a business. You can get an online one on sites like Empire Flippers: http://empireflippers.com. There's definitely value on the site, you just have to do your due diligence. Remember: only make small bets to start.

But if you want to start something from scratch, then get on a plane. You need to go to a place where your desired industry is the geographic focal point. If you want to get into tech, then go to Silicon Valley. If you want to get into distribution, then go to China for a trade show.

You need to figure out yourself what you want. We can't tell you that. But, it seems like you're having trouble doing that due to limited experiences. So, my advice again: take two days to pay off your cost of living, then the rest of your time making small bets and exploring what you like and are good at.

Good luck @Alan G
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Join this community and tap into their network. I've heard good things about the quality of people they have in southeast Asia: http://www.tropicalmba.com/dc/.

Meeting random "entrepreneurs" in Chiang Mai (co-working space, going out, etc.), is likely a waste of time. Sure, there might be some successful entrepreneurs, but there's a lot more $30,000 a year "digital nomads" that decided to move to the cheapest nice place they could find. I've been to CM a few times and was sorely disappointed in the quality of people multiple times.


As for your main concern, no one on this forum can tell you what to do. You have to figure that out for yourself, and from the responses you're giving, my guess is that you'll make that decision yourself.

But if you care, here's what I'd do in your shoes:
  • Work Monday and Tuesday on poker; cover your $80k a year expenses
  • Work Wednesday to Sunday on your business project
I'd also limit the amount of money you're putting into your business to start. I'd make small bets and wouldn't go in more than $10,000 at a time. Make a small bet, see how it works out, and once you gain confidence, put more money into that business.

As for previous suggestions of getting into real estate: Lease an apartment. Hire an airbnb management company to then rent it out. See how much you like the process. If you like it, start purchasing property in places you want to have a house in and have an airbnb management company manage it. You'll generate the passive income you're looking for while maintaining geographic freedom.

If you want to shoot at something in the dark, then consider buying a business. You can get an online one on sites like Empire Flippers: http://empireflippers.com. There's definitely value on the site, you just have to do your due diligence. Remember: only make small bets to start.

But if you want to start something from scratch, then get on a plane. You need to go to a place where your desired industry is the geographic focal point. If you want to get into tech, then go to Silicon Valley. If you want to get into distribution, then go to China for a trade show.

You need to figure out yourself what you want. We can't tell you that. But, it seems like you're having trouble doing that due to limited experiences. So, my advice again: take two days to pay off your cost of living, then the rest of your time making small bets and exploring what you like and are good at.

Good luck @Alan G

Thank you so much AgainstAllOdds!! This is absolutely fantastic advice and material and it is greatly appreciated. I think you hit the nail on the head in regard to my limited experiences being a barrier to finding out what I am passionate about. I will apply now to the dynamite circle.

Again, I really appreciate you helping out a complete stranger you are awesome :)
 

Jeff Noel

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The hours spent making and marketing the course may not add up to more than what I would make simply playing poker on my own (Although this is hard to really know)
Maybe. But the money that you will get will be separate from your own time. Once the course is done, it's done !
Poker rules won't changer anytime soon. Your course/book/whatever will be timeless and could be applied 100 years from now by new poker players.

You are losing passion into your sport, could you live on your actual earnings for the next month and work 10 hours a day on making high quality courses, then hiring a web designer, logo maker and everything (let's say, $2,000 in expenses for something highly professional) to be set ? Then, start advertizing. The problem here is that gambling is frowned upon by Facebook... I don't know Google Ads' policies towards that though.

After one month dedicated to the task, get in touch with big online poker platforms and try to get leads from one of them, offering to write blogposts for them or something along those lines.

Just my $0.02.
 

Royce2

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Welcome to the forum!
I only went as far as doubling my money on poker and then going full tilt after a couple of months. Out of curiousity, what range of money do you play with per day?
 

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Alan G

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Dec 29, 2018
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Welcome to the forum!
I only went as far as doubling my money on poker and then going full tilt after a couple of months. Out of curiousity, what range of money do you play with per day?
Its highly variable because it depends on where the action is on the day but I could outlay anywhere from 3k-30k per 10 hour session.
 

KeepGoin

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Experienced a difficult time mentally myself, and what helped me was to exercise. Maybe that can help you?

Breaking up the cortisol is a beautiful thing.
 
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Alan G

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Dec 29, 2018
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Chiang Mai
Experienced a difficult time mentally myself, and what helped me was to exercise. Maybe that can help you?

Breaking up the cortisol is a beautiful thing.
Yes I only just started exercising recently and is probably what prompted me to become active on this forum and even considering other possibilities despite knowing about this forum for over a year
 

Vincent_Vega

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God, everyone says that making money via online poker is dead and you're killing it with 20-30k a month. How do you even do that?

As the others said, I would keep playing poker and branch out into different new venues like online courses, real estate etc. You seem to be gifted with a talent, so keep milking the cow as long as you can.
 

empireflippers

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Join this community and tap into their network. I've heard good things about the quality of people they have in southeast Asia: http://www.tropicalmba.com/dc/.

Meeting random "entrepreneurs" in Chiang Mai (co-working space, going out, etc.), is likely a waste of time. Sure, there might be some successful entrepreneurs, but there's a lot more $30,000 a year "digital nomads" that decided to move to the cheapest nice place they could find. I've been to CM a few times and was sorely disappointed in the quality of people multiple times.


As for your main concern, no one on this forum can tell you what to do. You have to figure that out for yourself, and from the responses you're giving, my guess is that you'll make that decision yourself.

But if you care, here's what I'd do in your shoes:
  • Work Monday and Tuesday on poker; cover your $80k a year expenses
  • Work Wednesday to Sunday on your business project
I'd also limit the amount of money you're putting into your business to start. I'd make small bets and wouldn't go in more than $10,000 at a time. Make a small bet, see how it works out, and once you gain confidence, put more money into that business.

As for previous suggestions of getting into real estate: Lease an apartment. Hire an airbnb management company to then rent it out. See how much you like the process. If you like it, start purchasing property in places you want to have a house, and have an airbnb management company manage it. You'll generate the passive income you're looking for while maintaining geographic freedom.

If you want to shoot at something in the dark, then consider buying a business. You can get an online one on sites like Empire Flippers: http://empireflippers.com. There's definitely value on the site, you just have to do your due diligence. Remember: only make small bets to start.

But if you want to start something from scratch, then get on a plane. You need to go to a place where your desired industry is the geographic focal point. If you want to get into tech, then go to Silicon Valley. If you want to get into distribution, then go to China for a trade show.

You need to figure out yourself what you want. We can't tell you that. But, it seems like you're having trouble doing that due to limited experiences. So, my advice again: take two days to pay off your cost of living, then the rest of your time making small bets and exploring what you like and are good at.

Good luck @Alan G
Hey Alan!

AgainstAllOdds gave some great advice here, IMO. I'll follow on to a few of the things he mentioned or pointed out.

The Dynamite Circle (DC) is a great community of expat entrepreneurs. There's more than a thousand members and the signal-to-noise ratio there is favorable as online communities go. There are "hubs" in the community - Chiang Mai being one of them. (Others include Saigon - where I'm at currently - Prague, Medellin, Bangkok, Mexico City, Austin, Barcelona, etc.) In fact, one of the founders (Dan) has recently settled in CM for a bit and would be a great connect. He digs poker too. Lots of ex-poker players in the community, including my business partner Joe Magnotti.

Be careful with your savings/bankroll, but you CAN use that for investments, obviously. Because it wasn't an inheritance (and I'm assuming you could turn that back on if you needed) you can use that to bank on some passive investments (RE, stocks, etc.) or active investments (Online businesses we sell at Empire Flippers, for example) In either instance, make sure you understand what you're doing and do your due diligence, obviously.
 

RazorCut

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The only thing is I would hate to look back in 30 years from now if I built some massive business that I am passionate about and think why did I not start this business at 30 instead of 35?
“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb

From your poker success and multiple degree’s, it is evident that you have a strong analytical mind and the ability to focus, learn and adapt. You also have large cash reserves/investment fund and the ability to concentrate full time on any entrepreneurial endeavour you so choose. The world is therefore your oyster.

I don’t know how many years you have been playing poker professionally but many of us get disillusioned with our businesses after 3-5 years and yearn for a change. It’s why you see so many 2-5-year-old businesses for sale online. The challenge isn’t there any more and we see greener pastures over the fence.

@AgainstAllOdds echo’s my thoughts in that you will decide what fires your furnace. Your main problem from where I see it is that poker playing is a very insular activity. How can you be passionate about something unless you have discovered it? You need to broaden your horizons, travel, put yourself in the mix, spend time in the masses. Make discoveries and find passions. If you just take up the first thing that comes to mind you will end up wondering if you made the right decision in a few years time and be back to square one.

The one piece of advice I would offer you is to start at the end. Sit down and write out exactly how you would live your ideal life. Where you would live, who you would live it with and what you would do each day. Then use that as a barometer to measure any potential business against.

If it fails to meet those standards dismiss it and move on. A business that will take up too much of your time, needs lots of staff, creates lots of stress, needs a fixed geographical location etc. would all fail the test of someone who wants to live a nomadic lifestyle.

It is all too easy to get caught up in excitement of a new business idea only to find somewhere down the line that it doesn’t give you want you really wanted lifestyle wise.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Great intro Alan, appreciate the background.

You will be fine as an entrepreneur. It might take some time, but you will get there.

How do I know?

I know because you taught yourself poker. You weren't born with that skill. You learned it, did trial and error, failed a lot, and ended up a winner.

Entrepreneurship is the same.

I'd stick with poker once a week or more so it continues to bankroll my other ventures as well as my money system.

Your situation is much like a dentist or a doctor who makes a great wage, but hates his job. It's hard to leave that existence. The answer, IMO, is a slow winding down from one old thing (poker), to the one new thing (business building.)

I also believe when you start playing poker a few times a month instead of hundreds, the enjoyment might return.

This is a great example of "doing what you love" destroying what you love.

Thread upgraded to Intro+
 

Andy Black

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Welcome. Great intro.

I played a bit of online poker before I found another “game” online, based on EPCs and CPCs.

Buy visitors (aka “clicks”) to a website for an average cost-per-click (CPC) of $X, and get an average earning-per-click (EPC) of $Y.

Keep $Y > some multiple of $X.

Build funnels that work on autopilot, and then work to improve your EPC so you can then bid more and get more volume.

Some people and businesses do rather well at it.

Given your mathematical background this game might interest you.

Short video here:

Top tip... you’ll play this game much better by thinking of clicks as visitors - people with hopes and dreams, worries and fears.
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
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Chiang Mai
Great intro Alan, appreciate the background.

You will be fine as an entrepreneur. It might take some time, but you will get there.

How do I know?

I know because you taught yourself poker. You weren't born with that skill. You learned it, did trial and error, failed a lot, and ended up a winner.

Entrepreneurship is the same.

I'd stick with poker once a week or more so it continues to bankroll my other ventures as well as my money system.

Your situation is much like a dentist or a doctor who makes a great wage, but hates his job. It's hard to leave that existence. The answer, IMO, is a slow winding down from one old thing (poker), to the one new thing (business building.)

I also believe when you start playing poker a few times a month instead of hundreds, the enjoyment might return.

This is a great example of "doing what you love" destroying what you love.

Thread upgraded to Intro+
MJ!! Thank you so much for reading my post and responding. I am very thankful for your books I have read both of them multiple times.

You are absolutely right about my job feeling like a dentist/doctor/lawyer type who hates it. Your response here means so much to me because I have zero real world experience and while I am super confident at a poker table I am incredibly not confident at entrepreneurship or business. Seeing a personal response from you saying that you have faith in me based on me working out poker through trial and error really helps my confidence and inspires me to find something to get started on.

Also you hit the nail on the head of "doing what you love" destroying what you love. I originally got the best paying job I could find out of university (finance job) with the best firm where I knew if I could just stay in it for 12-15 years I could retire with 10 million+. However, I absolutely hated the work environment and at that time I loved poker, so I quit the job to play poker, and yet here I find myself at the same crossroads again!

Thanks so much for your books and your reply MJ it really is much appreciated!
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb

From your poker success and multiple degree’s, it is evident that you have a strong analytical mind and the ability to focus, learn and adapt. You also have large cash reserves/investment fund and the ability to concentrate full time on any entrepreneurial endeavour you so choose. The world is therefore your oyster.

I don’t know how many years you have been playing poker professionally but many of us get disillusioned with our businesses after 3-5 years and yearn for a change. It’s why you see so many 2-5-year-old businesses for sale online. The challenge isn’t there any more and we see greener pastures over the fence.

@AgainstAllOdds echo’s my thoughts in that you will decide what fires your furnace. Your main problem from where I see it is that poker playing is a very insular activity. How can you be passionate about something unless you have discovered it? You need to broaden your horizons, travel, put yourself in the mix, spend time in the masses. Make discoveries and find passions. If you just take up the first thing that comes to mind you will end up wondering if you made the right decision in a few years time and be back to square one.

The one piece of advice I would offer you is to start at the end. Sit down and write out exactly how you would live your ideal life. Where you would live, who you would live it with and what you would do each day. Then use that as a barometer to measure any potential business against.

If it fails to meet those standards dismiss it and move on. A business that will take up too much of your time, needs lots of staff, creates lots of stress, needs a fixed geographical location etc. would all fail the test of someone who wants to live a nomadic lifestyle.

It is all too easy to get caught up in excitement of a new business idea only to find somewhere down the line that it doesn’t give you want you really wanted lifestyle wise.
Thanks RazorCut this is great advice. I have been playing part time for 4 years and professionally for 5.5 years so nearly 10 years total. I imagine will be hard to find a business to work on that runs on very few employees that can work remotely and does not need a fixed geographical location but I am sure its out there I just have to find it :) I am actually thinking of taking a couple of months off and just travelling the world and thinking about ideas of what to do next. Even if I don't work it out at least I got to go out and see new parts of the world and meet new people. Could not agree more with what you were saying about poker being an insular activity. You cant identify problems to solve when all your food is delivered, cleaning and laundry is done for you and you spend all the time in front of a screen alone lol.
 

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Alan G

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Hey Alan!

AgainstAllOdds gave some great advice here, IMO. I'll follow on to a few of the things he mentioned or pointed out.

The Dynamite Circle (DC) is a great community of expat entrepreneurs. There's more than a thousand members and the signal-to-noise ratio there is favorable as online communities go. There are "hubs" in the community - Chiang Mai being one of them. (Others include Saigon - where I'm at currently - Prague, Medellin, Bangkok, Mexico City, Austin, Barcelona, etc.) In fact, one of the founders (Dan) has recently settled in CM for a bit and would be a great connect. He digs poker too. Lots of ex-poker players in the community, including my business partner Joe Magnotti.

Be careful with your savings/bankroll, but you CAN use that for investments, obviously. Because it wasn't an inheritance (and I'm assuming you could turn that back on if you needed) you can use that to bank on some passive investments (RE, stocks, etc.) or active investments (Online businesses we sell at Empire Flippers, for example) In either instance, make sure you understand what you're doing and do your due diligence, obviously.
Thanks empireflippers. I wish I read this post 5 years ago as I have made some terrible mistakes in handling my money and should have a lot more saved given my total earnings from poker. However, the past is the past and as long as I learn from it that is the main thing :) I am trying to be extremely careful now with my money because my income continues to get lower each year as the game becomes tougher. I am looking forward to meeting Dan and his circle. I am so impressed with how supportive this community is I love it.
 
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A

Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Welcome. Great intro.

I played a bit of online poker before I found another “game” online, based on EPCs and CPCs.

Buy visitors (aka “clicks”) to a website for an average cost-per-click (CPC) of $X, and get an average earning-per-click (EPC) of $Y.

Keep $Y > some multiple of $X.

Build funnels that work on autopilot, and then work to improve your EPC so you can then bid more and get more volume.

Some people and businesses do rather well at it.

Given your mathematical background this game might interest you.

Short video here:

Top tip... you’ll play this game much better by thinking of clicks as visitors - people with hopes and dreams, worries and fears.
Thanks Andy I will check it out now, I love new games :)
 

sparechange

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fish on a heater

hu4rollz ?
 

MitchC

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Is there an 80/20 rule to when you play poker? Could you work 20% of the time and make 80% of what you are making? For example maybe nights or weekends people may play looser, or only play when the higher stakes games are good or whatever.

Also I’d buy a poker course from you, I just got back into it and I can’t stop losing money.
 

spraybottle

Contributor
Mar 18, 2014
25
74
28
Hey Alan, what probably pushed you to learn poker and master it was probably these two things:

1. Income to be able to live off of and to not have to have job.
2. Desire to solve this game, get good at it, and become successful with it

The reason you're not as passionate with this is probably because you've accomplished these goals.

Now that you've won the game, what next?

What you need to do is discover and create a new dream. A dream that you can't imagine being able to achieve right now as you are. That'll fire you up, and give you the excitement that you need to get you going on that next phase in your life.

It's clear you're the type of person who doesn't like the idea of settling down and relaxing so you need to use that restlessness and channel it in a way that will keep challenging and pushing yourself to achieve bigger and grander things.

Taking time off after a long grind is a great idea. Just don't do it for too long or else you'll get used to it and it'll make it harder to get back into that "flow" state of mind where time becomes irrelevant and you're just taking massive action.

Also, you've mastered poker. A skill that others want to learn. A dream that other people want to replicate. Those who desire financial freedom, who hate their 9-5 job, who want to have unlimited upside, and who play poker on the side with friends. That's something highly coveted. Yes it'll take a lot of front work to design a program and market it, and something you're not used to, but courses and teaching others to do what you do is valuable. Or, if you don't want to go that angle - a software, or tool, or something that you wish existed when you got started or are doing now. Even better, if it already exists but is shitty and can be seriously improved. The bigger the pain point, the larger the opportunity. And, you can even guarantee yourself success. All you have to do is validate the idea with a subreddit post asking if they'd want what you have to offer.

Something to think about because I know you're considering getting out of the game. But if you do, you'll be back at 0 or 10 as opposed to 90 where you're at with poker and you won't have as much true insider knowledge as you do with this.
 
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Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Is there an 80/20 rule to when you play poker? Could you work 20% of the time and make 80% of what you are making? For example maybe nights or weekends people may play looser, or only play when the higher stakes games are good or whatever.

Also I’d buy a poker course from you, I just got back into it and I can’t stop losing money.
Yes - your expected hourly rate changes depending on the stake level and skill of your opponents at the table and it is often the case that on weekends more recreational players of lower skill level play at the higher stakes than what you see during the week, but not always the case.

The downside about playing or studying less is that you fall behind the curve and may not be able to compete at the same stake level over time.
 

André Casal

Bronze Contributor
Jun 1, 2018
63
102
121
Hello Alan, congratulations on admitting you have such a hard problem and welcome to the forum.

If I may, I'd like to offer a potential solution. I hope it resonates with you.

To make progress in life we need two things. A life compass (to make sure we're moving in the right direction, with meaning) and an efficient problem-solving framework (to make sure we're moving fast and keep ourselves motivated).

Moral values give meaning to our actions. Moral values also change with age: a child, a teenager, a young adult, a father and a grand father will value different things, so it's important to keep in mind that our values change with the phase we're in, in life.

Moving in the right direction
To make sure you know if you're moving in the right direction, i.e. with meaning, you should build a life compass. To build a life compass you need two ingredients: a lifeview and a workview.

To build your lifeview, you need to ask yourself (and answer) the following questions:
What is life for?
What's the purpose of life?
What has happiness to do with life?
What has spirituality and self-growth to do with life?
What is the point of society?
Feel free to add your own questions.


To build your workview, you need to ask yourself (and answer) the following questions:
What is work?
Why work? What's the point?
What has money to do with work?
What has work to do with spirituality and self-growth?


The recipe to build your life compass only has one step: integrate your lifeview and your workview, by making sure there are no inconsistencies in both your views. The goal is to achieve cognitive coherence. Also feel free to change your life compass as you gain new knowledge, it's your life.

When you're done, the coherent life and work values you wrote down make up your life compass and it's that much easier to know if you're moving in the right direction.

Moving fast
Now that you know if you're moving in the right direction, you need to learn to move fast. For that, you need an efficient problem-solving framework and for that you need 2 principles and the 3 steps of problem-solving.

Principle #1: Problems are inevitable.
Principle #2: Solutions are either not permitted by the laws of physics or merely a matter of having the right knowledge.
Principle #3: Problems whose solution is not permitted by the laws of physics shouldn't be interpreted as problems, but as the limits of reality instead.
Principle #4: Therefore, all problems are due to insufficient knowledge.
Principle #5: Progress is made by solving problems and earning ever better problems.

A few examples:
Having enough money to life comfortably stops being a problem after you know how to make enough money.
Having too much money is a better problem than having too little.
Managing a lot of money stops being a problem after you know how to manage a lot of money.
Living a meaningful life stops being a problem after you know what gives life meaning.


Solving problems always involves 3 steps:
1. Correctly understand the problem (usually involves investigating the problem and getting to the root cause)
2. Plan a solution (usually involves learning something new)
3. Executing your plan (the easiest part if 1. and 2. are done correctly)

If this resonates with you, I'd be happy to have a quick chat with you about these issues. Also, I suggest reading The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch to understand at a deeper level how to efficiently solve any problem you face, and the role of knowledge in our progress as individuals and as a society.

Let me know if this helped
 
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OP
A

Alan G

Contributor
Dec 29, 2018
13
43
19
Chiang Mai
Hey Alan, what probably pushed you to learn poker and master it was probably these two things:

1. Income to be able to live off of and to not have to have job.
2. Desire to solve this game, get good at it, and become successful with it

The reason you're not as passionate with this is probably because you've accomplished these goals.

Now that you've won the game, what next?

What you need to do is discover and create a new dream. A dream that you can't imagine being able to achieve right now as you are. That'll fire you up, and give you the excitement that you need to get you going on that next phase in your life.

It's clear you're the type of person who doesn't like the idea of settling down and relaxing so you need to use that restlessness and channel it in a way that will keep challenging and pushing yourself to achieve bigger and grander things.

Taking time off after a long grind is a great idea. Just don't do it for too long or else you'll get used to it and it'll make it harder to get back into that "flow" state of mind where time becomes irrelevant and you're just taking massive action.

Also, you've mastered poker. A skill that others want to learn. A dream that other people want to replicate. Those who desire financial freedom, who hate their 9-5 job, who want to have unlimited upside, and who play poker on the side with friends. That's something highly coveted. Yes it'll take a lot of front work to design a program and market it, and something you're not used to, but courses and teaching others to do what you do is valuable. Or, if you don't want to go that angle - a software, or tool, or something that you wish existed when you got started or are doing now. Even better, if it already exists but is sh*tty and can be seriously improved. The bigger the pain point, the larger the opportunity. And, you can even guarantee yourself success. All you have to do is validate the idea with a subreddit post asking if they'd want what you have to offer.

Something to think about because I know you're considering getting out of the game. But if you do, you'll be back at 0 or 10 as opposed to 90 where you're at with poker and you won't have as much true insider knowledge as you do with this.
Thanks a lot for this post yes I think you are right in regard to needing to find a new challenge etc. I know this sounds weird and I would normally call bullshit on people who say exactly what I am about to say but I think one of the reasons I dislike poker is that it is of no value to anyone or anything. One of the things that appealed to me in MJ's book and also in another book (Business Secrets from the Bible by Daniel Lapin) was that those rich entrepreneurs they deserve all that wealth and fancy things because they delivered that value to the world. That being said there are other ways to gain wealth, in a neutral way like poker or in a bad way like a dictator or criminal. I want to do something where I am following Ray Dalio's words of wisdom and have meaningful work and meaningful relationships. Right now I have neither.
 

Andy Black

Dad, husband, entrepreneur.
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That being said there are other ways to gain wealth, in a neutral way like poker or in a bad way like a dictator or criminal. I want to do something where I am following Ray Dalio's words of wisdom and have meaningful work and meaningful relationships. Right now I have neither.
Maybe listen to the first radio interview in my signature.
 

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