Monogamy. The idea of loving only one woman all your life?

[msufan]

To be honest, we should go back to divorce being socially stigmatized as well. A lot of things have been pushed on the population since the 60's, not all bad obviously, but social cohesiveness is at an all time low, I believe, as a tertiary effect of social experimentation.

I'd add to this that having kids out of wedlock is also something that needs a social stigma again.

 

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[DaRK9]

Source?

I have seen time and time again, albeit anecdotally, men who become dramatically less happy after they get married.

They just bitch about it more than they happy men talk about it. Which needs to change because it makes young men feel like marriage is a bad idea and brings nothing but trouble.

 

[Guest24480]

They just bitch about it more than they happy men talk about it. Which needs to change because it makes young men feel like marriage is a bad idea and brings nothing but trouble.

It's not what they say, it's in their demeanor. That defeated look.

Marriage is just a Government contract, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with spending your life with someone, but why do you need a contract to dictate that for you?

 

[DaRK9]

It's not what they say, it's in their demeanor. That defeated look.

Marriage is just a Government contract, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with spending your life with someone, but why do you need a contract to dictate that for you?

That doesn't mean everything ties back to only their marriage. Work, debt, stress, diet, mental attitude.

Most of the guys I've known who were like that had a lot of other issues going on. "My wife and I fought because of X"

Or they never took charge of their own lives after getting married. Lots of dudes turn their wife into their care takers at some point. Don't even know wtf is going on half the time.

 

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[msufan]

It's not what they say, it's in their demeanor. That defeated look.

Marriage is just a Government contract, nothing more. There's nothing wrong with spending your life with someone, but why do you need a contract to dictate that for you?

Would you have a contract to start a business with a partner?

 

[csalvato]

This thread confuses me. How can people who are so focused on personal financial fulfillment not have that carry over into emotional fulfillment as well?

I’d be nothing without my wife.

 

[ChrisV]

Source?

I have seen time and time again, albeit anecdotally, men who become dramatically less happy after they get married.

Are We Happy Yet?

Some of us are happier than others, and this variance helps to paint a portrait of the kind of people Americans are. It also casts doubt on some of the famous wisdom on the subject.

www.pewsocialtrends.org

Are married people happier than singles?

Marriage entails waking up beside the one you love and sharing cozy, homemade dinners for two. But when the honeymoon haze clears, are married people happier than singles?

science.howstuffworks.com

They're also wealthier. But I don't think it's as simple as "get married, be happy."

First, I think the types of people that focus on marriage are also the types of people who think long term (link.) Which is why you also see the disparity in income. That's partly responsible for the difference. Second, I think it depends on the marriage (ie: 'does marriage increase your happiness? no only happy marriage increases happiness.')

 

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[G-Man]

I was raised to the belief that you should and only love one person in your life. Never think of the pickup artist game. Be loyal and faithful. You attract people who think like you. Imagine marrying a wife that devotes all her energy to your family, to supporting your career. Of course you need to pick your wife carefully.

Really depends on what you think love is. If it's a mysterious force in the universe, or a little man with a bow of the ancestral religions, then you can't. It's largely out of your control.

If love is a cascade of the chimpanzee electro-chemical signals in your brain and body, also not much you can do.

If you and your spouse both see love as an act of the will on behalf of another human, you would be shocked at what you can do together.

I got lucky on that one. Marry a girl that has changed her religious views but was raise with that Calvinist ethic, and you won the lottery son

 

[ChrisV]

If love is a cascade of the chimpanzee electro-chemical signals in your brain and body, also not much you can do.

If you and your spouse both see love as an act of the will on behalf of another human, you would be shocked at what you can do together.

Wait... why can't it be both?

 

[G-Man]

Wait... why can't it be both?

True - when your will is in the right place those chimp signals pop in in a very positive way.

 

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[Brian Suh]

I was raised to the belief that you should and only love one person in your life. Never think of the pickup artist game. Be loyal and faithful. You attract people who think like you. Imagine marrying a wife that devotes all her energy to your family, to supporting your career. Of course you need to pick your wife carefully.

Look at the most successful men in the world: Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg... They all have not-so-beautiful wives and their wives seem to be family-oriented, i don't know them in person so i only assume that. It is also true with your girlfriend. Is that the biggest asset you've ever had, more than anything. If i'm wrong, please change my mind.

Find yourself and your own masculine core first. If you do so you have the POWER to CHOOSE. Most males dont choose their wives. They settle for the first girl who likes them because they are so desperate. Dont be that.

 

[Charnell]

I'm all for monogamy, but not too keen on getting married. Shit, I'm not even pursuing women at this point and plan on spending the next 7 months working on my business and working out. However, when I am with someone, I'm 100% with them to the point that (in the past) I would neglect my platonic friendships with women.

Question for the happily married men in the thread: did you gain anything from the marriage that you couldn't get from not being married?

Like, my little brother (23...jeez) just got married this last weekend and the next day we had dinner at his house and it was the exact same as the previous time I saw him. It was definitely for her and from what I gathered from him it was almost like he was pressured into it. Granted, they'd been together for a few years so it was inevitable but he was totally indifferent to the whole deal.

Would you have a contract to start a business with a partner?

Marriage is a business now?

As far as I can tell you're creating a contract where there is absolutely zero need to. Going from being "in business" for years where either partner can walk at any time and that's it, to signing a contract where you're liable financially to the other party whether you're in business together or not.

And before you bring up prenups, they can get thrown out in court for a number of reasons.

 

[Tubs]

Find yourself and your own masculine core first. If you do so you have the POWER to CHOOSE. Most males dont choose their wives. They settle for the first girl who likes them because they are so desperate. Dont be that.

This is actually a good point. It's good to take your time to pick out a high quality girl to go out with. I'd recommend people to check out Stefan Molyneuxs youtube channel. There's some good info on there about finding a woman and starting a family(plus a lot of free market libertarian philosophy)

Also,
Let's be real: If you aren't married by 35 it's Over!

 

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[csalvato]

Question for the happily married men in the thread: did you gain anything from the marriage that you couldn't get from not being married?

Yes but it’s something that can’t be articulated and needs to be experienced, unfortunately.

And I believe only a small subset of married men actually do experience it because of the flawed mental models that are very well exhibited in this thread, and reinforced by the “norms” of mainstream toxic masculinity.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

I can't speak for others, but my wife is my biggest asset, both personally and financially. From a purely financial perspective, my net worth would likely be 25% of what it is if it weren't for her...

That's only one data point, but it's still a data point...

Ironic that it’s a common belief that “We can’t do this alone. We need others to help us succeed”

Except when it comes to those closest to us I guess...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Timmy C]

Yeah, this is a solid point. But i didn't mean that when we first meet and know someone then we would stick to her to rest of our lives, i meant when we actually love someone then we should be with her till the end. You said it would be boring and finally we cheat, but with a big goal ahead, let's say building a business or a rich family, we could skip that feelings right?

I didn't say that you or her would cheat, i said it was a possibility and if that doesn't happen the relationship could fizzle out at the very least, or you do the worst thing of all and that is to stay with someone just because you have been together for so long and stay miserable for the rest of your life.

I see that ALOT.

It doesn't matter in my opinion whether you love her with everything you have, she won't love you the way you love her and never will. The way you love her you expect her to love you the same way, the love you feel for her she can only feel that for her kids not you. She loves her attraction for you and what you can do for her, and how you make her feel.

You can't ever skip the feelings whether you build a business or you are driven as all hell, it's just naturally the way things are, it'll always fizzle out and you will never experience the lust for that person the same way you did at the start of the relationship, it's just the way it is.

Again, not saying that there are not any successful marriages at all, but it comes down to how you both gel together and if you have the same values as over time all that shit like lust, and excitement will disappear.

 

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[MoneyHacker]

Ironic that it’s a common belief that “We can’t do this alone. We need others to help us succeed”

Except when it comes to those closest to us I guess...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ironic that it’s also a common belief that "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together"

 

[MoneyHacker]

It doesn't matter in my opinion whether you love her with everything you have, she won't love you the way you love her and never will. The way you love her you expect her to love you the same way, the love you feel for her she can only feel that for her kids not you. She loves her attraction for you and what you can do for her, and how you make her feel.

I see, finally it has to be give and take on both sides. You must give first and then demand later .

 

[MoneyHacker]

Find yourself and your own masculine core first. If you do so you have the POWER to CHOOSE. Most males dont choose their wives. They settle for the first girl who likes them because they are so desperate. Dont be that.

No i'm not anywhere close to that desperate . All i want to say is that when you have the POWER to CHOOSE, instead of choosing some kinds of "high quality" girls to sastify your need, choose one that helps you reach more POWER.

 

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[MoneyHacker]

Question for the happily married men in the thread: did you gain anything from the marriage that you couldn't get from not being married?

I'm not married yet so it's hard to say, but let's say when i'm in control and everything is fine, maybe i don't need my wife, but when things go bad, she will be there for me. And if my wife is excellent at an aspect of business, she will be my perfect supporter and she will help me leverage my business and my life. I'm just assuming i could marry "that" wife, but if she is not the one, maybe i will suffer.

 

[broswoodwork]

Maybe there should be a matrimony fastlane:
Control: unnecessary because you're both 90% on the same page with great communication and a clear agreeable conflict resolution process
Entry: neither party has reservations and nobody is settling
Need: will you have children? are there a religious or cultural necessity?
Time: if you're both 9-5ers with a 3 hour commute and feel compelled to melt your brain with tv/ Instagram and alcohol in your spare time, why bother
Scale/ magnitude: do you bring out the best in each other? Do you reach for more in all areas with them by your side?

Why did I type all of this out? Back to work for me...

 

[Baubau]

Having a good partner could be key to success IMO. I've been dating this girl for 6 months now and let me tell you I wouldn't be where I am today. I started my first business (actually more like a side hustle) after meeting her and now we're starting a business together.

She's 34, I'm 26. She's been an entrepreneur for years and I'm learning a lot from her. Another plus is that I get to make friends with older successful entrepreneurs.

I could never cheat on her despite being tempted to several times by younger women. So, yes, monogamy is a thing to me.

 

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[MoneyHacker]

Having a good partner could be key to success IMO. I've been dating this girl for 6 months now and let me tell you I wouldn't be where I am today. I started my first business (actually more like a side hustle) after meeting her and now we're starting a business together.

She's 34, I'm 26. She's been an entrepreneur for years and I'm learning a lot from her. Another plus is that I get to make friends with older successful entrepreneurs.

I could never cheat on her despite being tempted to several times by younger women. So, yes, monogamy is a thing to me.

Nice, i'm just curious how can you get along with older people. I mean when they're older they often demand something more pragmatic from a relationship. What do you give them (i'm not joking, it's a real question)?

 

[Ismail941]

Marriage is great [if] you want kids for your legacy

I think comparing with other people will make you worse

Monogamy works [IF] she is the "right woman"
The Right Woman you will find [after] dating a lot of women
Once you do this and after accumulating experiences, eventually you know exactly what you want for yourself

It's really case by case situation. Not everyone turns out to be the same.

 

[Digamma]

I don't have a horse in this race. I tried long term monogamous relationships, they're not for me, at least for the foreseeable future. But I understand the appeal. To each his own.

That said, this "without her I would not be where I am" is frankly a disempowering belief and a bit sad too.

And I noticed guys in this thread repeat it verbatim.

Sounds culty...

Because it is.

It's societal mental programming just like the slow lane we rail about.

You don't need a woman to take care of your business.

Everything you did you could have done on your own.

Now that's an empowering belief.

As a bonus, I just wanted to make an observation about sexual monogamy:

I could never cheat on her despite being tempted to several times by younger women. So, yes, monogamy is a thing to me.

And yet, you were tempted. Which means being monogamous requires you to make an effort, and is essentially a sacrifice.

My point being, you're not monogamous because you want to be, you are monogamous because it's the price to pay for your relationship.

Not attacking you, life is compromise. Just observing there is a compromise in place.

 

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[John D.]

And yet, you were tempted. Which means being monogamous requires you to make an effort, and is essentially a sacrifice.

My point being, you're not monogamous because you want to be, you are monogamous because it's the price to pay for your relationship.

Not attacking you, life is compromise. Just observing there is a compromise in place.

Anything worthwhile in life is a sacrifice.

Since this is a business forum, entrepreneurship is the perfect parallel here.

Think of the entrepreneur stuck with the 'shiny object syndrome'.

He jumps over from one thing to another as soon as he hits the first inevitable wall. When the first sign of trouble rears its scary head, he bails out and goes on to search for greener pastures.

Resistance overcomes him, and his short-lived efforts in each of his business ventures result in discouraging failures.

Some of his projects look very promising and he's at the brink of finally having 'made it'.

Only if he would go a couple of extra miles, he would finally enjoy the fulfilling rewards waiting for him at the finish line...

...but no, he throws it all away and opens a Social Media Marketing Agency.

Then, of course, he proudly slaps up the prestigious title of 'Serial Entrepreneur' on his LinkedIn. He gets recognition from his peers and he basks in their approval.

And while he may not be aware of it, this is all in effort to shove those nasty, lingering 'what ifs' even deeper down his psyche.

Now replace the business ventures with relationships or anything else in life that requires patience and hard work.

 

[msufan]

Anything worthwhile in life is a sacrifice.

This whole post is so true.

 

[Spicymemer45]

Serial Monogamy until you get married for sure.

"Progressives" will say sex is more of a commodity to be enjoyed among the population but statistically being a womanizer or a lady of the evening leads to higher rates of drug use and depression, we as humans in my estimation have evolved to be somewhat monogamous as other forms of relationship-building such as polygamy, polyamory and the sort have always resulted in social regression, increased levels of violence across the sexes and economic instability. Avoid the naysayers that tote the idea you'll get sick of your wife eventually, John Gottman has done a lifetime of research on human relationships and he is 96.3% accurate in all his predictions of whether or not the relationship will continue across time, so yes you can make love last forever.

From a symbolic perspective, what could be more meaningful than two humans choosing to tie themselves together for life and say "No matter WHAT (excluding abusive situations) we will either work together to build a life together and tell each other the truth or we can be miserable for the rest of our lives"

It's the ultimate responsibility and what kind of human wouldn't want a genuine companion for the rest of their life? We're deeply social creatures and what bond could b e deeper?

I'm extremely drunk so bear with this example. Imagine you're a hero starting some dangerous quest that will last your lifetime, would you rather go it alone or have someone who will stand with you NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!? And I mean anything!

To me, that's what marriage is (excluding all that government bullshit) two people bound for life, good marriages become pillars of society, they create better children, they create a better world.

Don't take the red pill, don't become a PUA. Ask your own questions, question me, question everything.

Can any amount of sexual excitement match the potential good that a lifelong partner can bring?

Go and find out for yourself, I'm off to nurse myself to sobriety

 

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[ChrisV]

statistically being a womanizer or a lady of the evening leads to higher rates of drug use and depression

I'm sorry but this not one bit true. There is no factual basis for this statement.

You can't pull causality from correlational data.

Those things may correlate with eachother, but there is not a shred of evidence that womanizing can lead to 'drug use' and 'depression.' It's more like Depression leads to womanizing and drug use.

Sure, finding the right woman can make you happier, but to state that womanizing will lead to depression... and drug use? Is dubious to say the least.

Don't take the red pill, don't become a PUA. Ask your own questions

Agree there though.

To me, that's what marriage is (excluding all that government bullshit) two people bound for life, good marriages become pillars of society, they create better children, they create a better world.

And this.

To all the people saying "marriage is just a contract.. you don't need a government contract to tell you that you love someone"... like come on, the ultimate goal of marriage is to ha e children and start a family. Imo, if you're not married, you're not really a family. And that might be damaging to children. As a child I would much rather grow up with parents that are officially we'd than just cohabitating together, regardless of if they're in love or not. Marriage comes with a lot of changes. Usually changes in the woman's last name, combination of finances, etc... these are all the things that precede having a family. Like imagine having a family where one person's last name is Washington, one person's last name is Russo. Kids go to school and Sally Amber Washington-Russo explains to the other children that their mom and dad aren't married but 'don't need a government contract to prove their love'

yo, whatever lol

Marriage is basically saying "we are no longer two separate entities.. we are a family."

It's not just a government contract. It's a pair-bonding decision that's been around for hundreds of thousands of years; one that just so happens to be recognized by the government. Ancient humans got married. Penguins get married.

Gentoo penguins woo partners with carefully chosen 'love token' pebbles – video

Move over The Bachelor, because these male Gentoo penguins have romance down to a fine art

www.theguardian.com

Do Male Penguins Make 'Pebble Proposals' to Their Mates?

That social media factoid about penguin courtship and the "perfect pebble" in no way reflects the creatures' actual mating habits.

www.snopes.com

(Well, in their own way)

But just like Ancient people could have formed a group of people that produced goods, but today that's recognized as a 'company' by the government.

But anyway, in my opinion getting married is the first step to starting a family. Starting a family without a marriage is basically a hack job, in my opinion.

 

[Spicymemer45]

I'm sorry but this not one bit true. There is no factual basis for this statement.

You can't pull causality from correlational data.

Those things may correlate with eachother, but there is not a shred of evidence that womanizing can lead to 'drug use' and 'depression.' It's more like Depression leads to womanizing and drug use.

Sure, finding the right woman can make you happier, but to state that womanizing will lead to depression... and drug use? Is dubious to say the least.


Agree there though.



And this.

To all the people saying "marriage is just a contract.. you don't need a government contract to tell you that you love someone"... like come on, the ultimate goal of marriage is to ha e children and start a family. Imo, if you're not married, you're not really a family. And that might be damaging to children. As a child I would much rather grow up with parents that are officially we'd than just cohabitating together, regardless of if they're in love or not. Marriage comes with a lot of changes. Usually changes in the woman's last name, combination of finances, etc... these are all the things that precede having a family. Like imagine having a family where one person's last name is Washington, one person's last name is Russo. Kids go to school and Sally Amber Washington-Russo explains to the other children that their mom and dad aren't married but 'don't need a government contract to prove their love'

yo, whatever lol

Marriage is basically saying "we are no longer two separate entities.. we are a family."

It's not just a government contract. It's a pair-bonding decision that's been around for hundreds of thousands of years; one that just so happens to be recognized by the government. Ancient humans got married. Penguins get married.

Gentoo penguins woo partners with carefully chosen 'love token' pebbles – video

Move over The Bachelor, because these male Gentoo penguins have romance down to a fine art

www.theguardian.com

Do Male Penguins Make 'Pebble Proposals' to Their Mates?

That social media factoid about penguin courtship and the "perfect pebble" in no way reflects the creatures' actual mating habits.

www.snopes.com

(Well, in their own way)

But just like Ancient people could have formed a group of people that produced goods, but today that's recognized as a 'company' by the government.

But anyway, in my opinion getting married is the first step to starting a family. Starting a family without a marriage is basically a hack job, in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply and here's the link just to show I'm not talking out my a$$ and even if it isn't a definitive study, it does have statistical significance.

The Relationship Between Multiple Sex Partners and Anxiety, Depression, and Substance Dependence Disorders: A Cohort Study

Changes in sexual behavior have resulted in longer periods of multiple serial or concurrent relationships. This study investigated the effects of multiple heterosexual partners on mental health, specifically, whether higher numbers of partners were linked ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The results showed that, taking into account prior disorder status, increasing number of sex partners was associated with a striking increase in later substance dependence disorders, especially for women. On the other hand, no consistent associations were found with later anxiety or depression at any age. The results were confirmed when using new cases of disorder, that is, a disorder present at one assessment age but not at the previous assessment age."