Ebola in the USA... Anyone Concerned?

[LightHouse]

If you want to make some money and have an FBA account. Go buy boxes of M and L nitrile gloves, n95 masks etc from costco/sams/ whereever. Expedite to FBA and start selling them.... they are all out of stock on amazon right now.....

 

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[Trill2b]

Yup. The timeline speaks volumes to me. This thing's been around for 4 decades, and suddenly out of the blue??? hmmmm

In Africa, the first cases were discovered in 1976 and there has been outbreaks in different parts of the continent since then. It didn't just come out of the blue...

 

[Trill2b]

That's at advanced stages of the virus though. There was an interview a few days ago by one of the medical researchers who discovered Ebola in the 70s, where he said he would happily sit next to an Ebola victim on the bus, assuming they were still in the early stages of the virus. I'll try to find the link. But basically something along of the lines of in the early stages the virus tries to multiply itself as much as possible, so it tends to stay within the victim, whereas in the later stages it is almost excreting itself, making itself much easier to catch.

Obviously if you're picking your teeth next to piles of Ebola-ridden blood you're at risk.

I would be interested in hearing what the general "level of fear" was on the ground in Nigeria though. I know you guys had significantly more victims than the US does currently, but still managed to stop it. Were people as freaked out about it there as some of the people here are?

Note that I said ... "a SICK Ebola carrier...". We were all veeerrry afraid. That's why we fought it with all we had. Nobody shook hands with anyone, even friends. Even in church. No hugging, no high fives. Every office and health center had handwash points outside the buildings, hand sanitizers were the highest selling product anywhere. Everyone used it severally during the day...

 

[DeletedUser394]

Chris Brown has spoken. https://twitter.com/chrisbrown/status/521556459696312321

In other news, did you guys hear about 'clipboard man'? What the hell was he doing haha

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I'm a medical doctor living in Nigeria where we just succeeded in kicking it out.

Wow. Welcome to the forum @Trill2b -- we're all very happy to have you here. Definitely will be great to hear your insight and first-person perspective which is surely based on experience, and not conjecture and/or speculation.

 

[Bigguns50]

It's very unlikely that the nurse who traveled to Cleveland infected anyone.

While I'm with @MJ DeMarco on the germ thing and don't want to talk about this too much, I'm not concerned about getting Ebola.

However....I think that if this Nurse infected someone in Cleveland, people will begin to panic as it will be the 1st case here where a non-diagnosed infected person infected another. I just think the American psyche will start to crack.

Then I will start buying supplies and making "what-if" plans.

 

[throttleforward]

If you want to make some money and have an FBA account. Go buy boxes of M and L nitrile gloves, n95 masks etc from costco/sams/ whereever. Expedite to FBA and start selling them.... they are all out of stock on amazon right now.....

One of my amazon product areas overlaps with preppers - I just sold out of a number of items.

 

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[Nathan Douglas]

Well I live in Dallas so that kinda sucks. lol the wife and I are going to go up to Minnesota and stay with my sister if it gets bad. But, business as usual until then.

 

[LightHouse]

One of my amazon product areas overlaps with preppers - I just sold out of a number of items.

I was thinking about that product last night and figured you would be close to selling out if you hadn't already. This is a perfect opp for arbitrage though, since everything is sold, you can raise prices and send in local inventory if you can get it there fast enough.

I put this out there cause I have no FBA account or set up, so the time constraint wouldn't work for me, but its a great opp for a good portion of people on this board.

It has a side benefit of the person keeping a few of whatever for their own supply as well.

 

[LightHouse]

Then I will start buying supplies and making "what-if" plans.

Problem is, it is too late a that point. We had a brief conversation about this in PHX, i remember MJ being part of the convo and I can not remember who else. But essentially, what is the down side to having this stuff stored? Gloves and masks do not go bad... so why not get some and have them, just in case?

It doesn't make you a "prepper", it just means you have means when the time comes. You don't have to fantasize about the world ending to just have some supplies in case anything happens.

 

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[jon.a]

Hazmat ghillie suits?

 

[Trill2b]

Wow. Welcome to the forum @Trill2b -- we're all very happy to have you here. Definitely will be great to hear your insight and first-person perspective which is surely based on experience, and not conjecture and/or speculation.

Thanks sir. Happy to be here and to be of service.

 

[Trill2b]

IMO, as Americans, we've become complacent. Some would say arrogant. There's a sense of "it could never happen here." But let's look at this...

Right now in Dallas, there's a desperate call out for nurses. About 70 (let that number sink in...) health care workers cared for Duncan. Of those, two have already gotten Ebola. Let's take the other 68. Are they still working? If so, who are they potentially infecting? If not, who's taking their place? Basically, ONE dude who lied to obtain "free" medical care has caused mass chaos in just one major U.S. city. Now, that city is short of nurses. The hospital that treated him is basically closed to non-Ebola cases. Dallas has been forced to contact and monitor hundreds of people. Soon, they'll be contacting and monitoring hundreds more, including those who flew with the second infected nurse a couple days ago.

Now, imagine if "only" ten Duncans get through. Or imagine if someone infected by Duncan or a nurse is walking around sick right now, thinking they just have the flu. Ebola spreads exponentially. One person infects two people and so on.

I don't think it's fear-mongering to suggest you stock some food and supplies just in case.

I also suggest that Americans in Texas or anywhere else that is affected do what Nigerians did... have every medical center and office set up to have hand wash systems in place outside the buildings including use of non contact thermometers on everyone entering such buildings to detect fevers promptly. Also everyone should stop or reduce shaking hands or touching strangers or even friends, use hand sanitizers every 3 hours.
It became a national habit here...

 

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[Trill2b]

Try to avoid public arenas for now. That would be a start

Especially hospitals except when really necessary...

 

[Trill2b]

Im living in Sweden. We have not had any public ebola case yet. But Im on my way to buy a respirator mask, suit and also stock up food + water.

It's like some people say, when the outbreak is here and everybody is rushing to the store, thats when you know you have acted to slow. And if the ebola doesn't spread that crazy in my country, I at least have food + water that I can use .

HOW NIGERIA STOPPED EBOLA
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-nigeria-stopped-ebola-2014-10

 

[Trill2b]

P.S. The country of Nigeria is now Ebola-free. They stopped it. We will too. That doesn't mean everything will go perfectly as planned, or that there won't be more infections, or that the CDC is the most competent organization in the world. But I think we can handle it. Either way, the people going out and buying bio suits and respiratory masks need to stop reading /r/Ebola and blogs run by guys living somewhere in the foothills of Montana.

Just wash your hands and don't go swapping spit with sniffling strangers on airplanes, and you'll be fine.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-nigeria-stopped-ebola-2014-10

---

 

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[throttleforward]

I also suggest that Americans in Texas or anywhere else that is affected do what Nigerians did... have every medical center and office set up to have hand wash systems in place outside the buildings including use of non contact thermometers on everyone entering such buildings to detect fevers promptly. Also everyone should stop or reduce shaking hands or touching strangers or even friends, use hand sanitizers every 3 hours.
It became a national habit here...

(what follows is my personal opinion and not the view of any government agency)

With great respect - our federal government can't compel hospitals or states to do anything like this. Our hodge-podge of 50 states, 2500 health jurisdictions and 5,000 individual hospitals are essentially independent and can do what they'd like with regard to treatment and sanitation protocols. The federal government has no jurisdiction or authority to force any of these hospitals, doctors or nurses to do anything, including the CDC.

In fact, right now we have 57, full-time National Guard CBRN response teams (known as CSTs), able to respond, treat and decontaminate people using appropriate HAZMAT techniques and materials on only 3 hours notice (including in Texas). We have thousands of National Guard troops on 6 and 24 hour standbys to provide even greater response and treatment capabilities. We have tens of thousands of doctors and nurses in the Army Reserve who can be mobilized to respond.

But just like with the Hurricane Katrina response, If the governor does not request these forces, they can't do diddly squat. Short of the president invoking the Insurrection Act, those forces have to sit and watch as hospitals scramble to do the best they can with the equipment they have off the shelves.

I believe the solution to this problem is new legislation giving the president the authority to operationalize these forces if an infectious disease with national security concerns is detected within the US.

 

[ChickenHawk]

I believe the solution to this problem is new legislation giving the president the authority to operationalize these forces if an infectious disease with national security concerns is detected within the US.

Oh good lord. Give those incompetent boobs MORE power? They can't even do the things they're SUPPOSED to be doing right.

Sorry to be snarky. Really. It's an interesting debate. There's just something about this idea that utterly horrifies me.

 

[SBS.95]

http://www.nextgov.com/health/2014/...ive-animal-tests/96536/?oref=nextgov_today_nl
Ebola vaccine found 100% effective in animals

If this vaccine turns out to be successful on humans, which seems likely given the nature of Ebola, they are expected to start issuing it in November. That seems a little too soon being as we're already halfway through October. Either way, very good news. From what I understand, Ebola is a deadly, but not very complex virus, so in theory it should work on humans. Usually when a vaccination works on animals but not humans, it is for a much more complex disease like AIDS, which, for all of the stupid comparisons the media/CDC has made, is very different from Ebola.

Also, without turning this political, I'd just like to point out that it's interesting how a country with monetary rewards for developing these vaccinations is the first to come up with a potential solution. Say what you will about pharmaceutical companies being evil, it sounds like they know how to get shit done when motivated by 8.2 million.

 

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[throttleforward]

Oh good lord. Give those incompetent boobs MORE power? They can't even do the things they're SUPPOSED to be doing right.

Sorry to be snarky. Really. It's an interesting debate. There's just something about this idea that utterly horrifies me.

Our military CBRN responders are not incompetent boobs. Trust me, I understand and have experience with government incompetence, but despite perception it's often much more complicated (and government agencies are much more hamstrung) than the news would let on.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Our military CBRN responders are not incompetent boobs.

I agree with THIS 100%. They're heroic, truly. Sorry if it came across this way. They weren't the ones I was referring to. And, in respect for the forum's rules against political discussion, I'll leave it there.

 

[throttleforward]

I agree with THIS 100%. They're heroic, truly. Sorry if it came across this way. They weren't the ones I was referring to. And, in respect for the forum's rules against political discussion, I'll leave it there.

I think the important thing to realize with issues issues like this is the disconnect between what the public expects (and what politicians lead us or would like us to believe) and what the law allows.

The public expects a robust, federal-level response to issues such as this. What the public does not know is that states (and lower jurisdictions) are ultimately responsible for the safety of their citizens. The federal government (FEMA, DoD, CDC, etc.) can't, as a general rule, come in, bump out the local authorities, and get shit done.

There are a lot of people (a lot of good, competent people not just in the military, but across the federal government) chomping at the bit in the federal government, just waiting for the call to go in an help people, but they can't until a state throws up their hands and says "help!"

 

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[throttleforward]

Another note about public expectations - it takes a crisis to change how things work.

Think about how you feel as a citizen about this hypothetical statement: "Passenger screening at Dulles Airport is, as is all law enforcement matters, ultimately a state function. We, as the TSA, issue guidance to the state of Virginia as to best practices, but we have no authority to compel Dulles, their contract security staff, or the state of Virginia to perform screening of passengers in the manner we deem best. At the end of the day, airlines are responsible for screening their passengers, and are free to do so in a manner consistent with their operational concerns."

This statement was at one point true in this country. 9/11 changed that*. The public now expects the federal government to handle this. Whether they execute well or not, we want the feds on the case - a national, standardized way of ensuring aviation safety, including passenger screening.

I have a feeling the public will come to expect the same when it comes to infectious agents. People are going to scratch their heads, saying "wait a minute, hospitals can do whatever they want? A hospital in Northern Virginia can use different PPE than a hospital in DC, 3 miles away, simply because of some arbitrary state boundary? We, as taxpayers, have federally-funded National Guardsmen who are trained and ready to handle these things, but have to sit around and wait for some arbitrary political decision at the state level to respond? This is crazy!"

*The Aviation and Transportation Security Act (ATSA, Pub.L. 107–71 November 19, 2001) was enacted by the 107th United States Congress in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The Act created the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) within the U.S. Department of Transportation. However, with the passage of the Homeland Security Act, the TSA was later transferred to the Department of Homeland Security. The legislation (S. 1447) was sponsored by Democratic Senator Fritz Hollings and co-sponsored by 30 other Senators.
Prior to ATSA, passenger screening was the responsibility of airlines, with the actual duties of operating the screening checkpoint contracted-out to private firms such as Wackenhut, Globe, and ITS.

 

[theag]

Say what you will about pharmaceutical companies being evil, it sounds like they know how to get shit done when motivated by 8.2 million.

 

[SBS.95]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/

 

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[ChickenHawk]

The public expects a robust, federal-level response to issues such as this.

But no matter how much money, power, or resources they get, they still screw it up. They spend their money/power/resources on things of little importance. Then, when it goes to crap, they want more. More money. More power. More resources. And once they get these things, they never want to let go.

And what have they done with the resources they've already gotten? Here are some examples:

• Researching diseases among male sex workers in Peru ($400,000)
• Why chimps throw feces ($600,000)
• Sexual attraction among fruit flies (nearly $1 million).
• A new CDC visitor's center ($106 million)
• Advising Hollywood on medical plots ($1.7 million)

(http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...ot-from-phantom-budget-cuts.htm#ixzz3GKmnOG8h)

Maybe what the public really expects is that they'll take the resources we've already given them and do the jobs they were paid to do without making excuses or pointing fingers.

 

[throttleforward]

But no matter how much money, power, or resources they get, they still screw it up. They spend their money/power/resources on things of little importance. Then, when it goes to crap, they want more. More money. More power. More resources. And once they get these things, they never want to let go.

And what have they done with the resources they've already gotten? Here are some examples:

• Researching diseases among male sex workers in Peru ($400,000)
• Why chimps throw feces ($600,000)
• Sexual attraction among fruit flies (nearly $1 million).
• A new CDC visitor's center ($106 million)
• Advising Hollywood on medical plots ($1.7 million)

(http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...ot-from-phantom-budget-cuts.htm#ixzz3GKmnOG8h)

Maybe what the public really expects is that they'll take the resources we've already given them and do the jobs they were paid to do without making excuses or pointing fingers.

It's easy to throw stones at basic research - the titles seem rediculous and wasteful.

But what would Thomas Edison's basic research title have been for the invention of the light bulb? Studies On Glowing String?

The fact is that 1) the federal government has an apporpriate role to play in funding research. 2) The approval for getting grant money is rigourous (my wife used to work in the NSF OIG office.) 3) Important scientific discoveries, including treatments for diseases, often come serendipitously through basic research that, on the surface, sounds stupid.

There is waste in federal government, without a doubt, but I'd rather 10xs the budget of NSF, NIH, NIST, NASA, CDC, etc. than buy a couple more F35's.

 

[theag]

It's easy to throw stones at basic research - the titles seem rediculous and wasteful.

But what would Thomas Edison's basic research title have been for the invention of the light bulb? Studies On Glowing String?

The fact is that 1) the federal government has an apporpriate role to play in funding research. 2) The approval for getting grant money is rigourous (my wife used to work in the NSF OIG office.) 3) Important scientific discoveries, including treatments for diseases, often come serendipitously through basic research that, on the surface, sounds stupid.

There is waste in federal government, without a doubt, but I'd rather 10xs the budget of NSF, NIH, NIST, NASA, CDC, etc. than buy a couple more F35's.

So from the 5 examples she listed you pick out the 4 cheap research studies, not the $106 million visitor center?

 

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[Iwokeup]

I also suggest that Americans in Texas or anywhere else that is affected do what Nigerians did... have every medical center and office set up to have hand wash systems in place outside the buildings including use of non contact thermometers on everyone entering such buildings to detect fevers promptly. Also everyone should stop or reduce shaking hands or touching strangers or even friends, use hand sanitizers every 3 hours.
It became a national habit here...

We're working on it.

Do you mind describing some of your best tips and tricks as a treating physician?

And welcome!

 

[Iwokeup]

Especially hospitals except when really necessary...

Not an option for me, unfortunately.