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making an information product, what are your thoughts on this?

A detailed account of a Fastlane process...

therebel

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Apr 20, 2013
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the basic goal of the product is to train leadership for the purpose of getting ahead in whatever area(s) you wish to improve in.

The premise is that everyone is a follower, even if we like to consider ourselves leaders, there's still always some instances where we become followers, it's only human nature.. so this is about establishing yourself as that leader in whatever way works in your particular situation & leading your prospect to the result you both want.

now, I'm planning on selling this as a low-mid level ebook product, so what I'd like you guys to do is put yourself in the shoes of somebody who's into this type of stuff, somebody who's trying to be a better salesperson, get more girls, self improve & just let me know how engaged this idea would make you, not even if you would buy the product, but just judge it on how intriguing the idea is.

& what would stop you from pulling the trigger on it if you were a little interested.

thanks

the world brain washes us from a young age to believe in its values, go to school, follow directions, get a good job & retire with your 401K. this is the best process for us to follow in order to keep the economy growing. only the huge gap between the rich and the poor combined with social Darwinism has created this situation where the rich can beat the poor down & the poor can't do anything about it.

most of us aren't educated in finance, don't understand what it means to be upside down in a loan, don't understand marketing or business, because public school only showed them how to take orders, not how the system actually works, these public schools were created in the beginning of the industrial revolution with one goal in mind, make better factory workers & to this day we've been indoctrinated into this assembly line process in everything we do, at the grocery store, at school, at work, it's just one big assembly line after another. Most people with only public education behind them only understand how to operate efficiently within the assembly line by following orders, not how to create anything of their own that can produce wealth, not how to manage their finances, not how to create strong relationships that lead to a more healthy lifestyle.


The Social Extraction


The weakness in this whole operation lies within it's predictability, no matter where you go, things are exactly the same, the subjugated workers, the manager policing the operation & the levels upon levels of leadership, so on and so forth, People don't like to admit this but everyone is a follower, that big bad manager is a follower, the guy above him is a follower & the CEO is a follower, the hot girl you wish you could get is a follower, the customer your trying to get a sale from is a follower, so with that said, the most important question you should be asking is how do you get them to follow you?


The social extraction is a strategy for making this happen by leading indirectly using open ended questions, giving directions rather than asking permission & pulling the prospect in the direction you want with small incremental directives that get them accustomed to following you rather than leading you. It sounds manipulative, but the overarching goal is to create good relationships with the type of people that help you grow financially & socially but you can't do that without being a leader first.

Then it would go on to go into greater detail about how it works, case studies, yadayada still a work in progress, but I like it so far.
 
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1step

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Whos the market for the ebook? the Demo?
 
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therebel

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Whos the market for the ebook? the Demo?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

my site gets good feedback from people who are into dating advice

but ideally what this is going to be is a general "influence method"

that can help with dating, sales, getting interviews, promotions etc.

Think....................The pick up artist, only kinda leftist and rebellious but geared towards giving people the skills they need to create relationships that take them places.

If you sell stuff you need a good relationship with your customers, if you want to succeed at dating, you need a good relationship with a girl, if you want to get a promotion you need a good relationship with your boss etc.

so in my experience I've found that all those type of relationships come from leading the relationship and not being a follower in it... so this is about getting to that place.

I might sound like I'm trying to sell it, but I really just want to see who likes it, and then use those people as a place to start from when finding the target market & I think this is a good place to do that.
 

Kano

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Interesting idea. So your approach would be Leadership training?

I think this category falls into self-development. My concern is if you are qualified to even create a product on the topic. When it comes to self-development material, you never want to be listening to someone that is less successful, or more screwed up than you are. Just a piece of advice one of my mentors early on my career had given me.

With that being said, you need to have a strong relationship and credibility so you can leverage your own success and leadership principles to create a eBook or membership website if you want your product to be successful.
 
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therebel

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I'd definitely agree

-yeah, It's this weird leadership training/sales training/lifestyle design mash up type situation, I like where I'm going with it, I just want to patch up all the holes in it by (like you said) establishing a good relationship with the type of people who would be into this.

judging by the reception I generally get here I'm prob not gonna find my target audience here lmao, but I know I'm going to have to aim for whatever more left-leaning artistic type of people who are interested in this kinda stuff... these guy's seem too conservative to get into this.
 
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therebel

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Lol I'd agree with that assessment in a way...

there's logical decision makers vs emotional decision makers, this site is obviously more logical.

does that mean my product is bad? no, just that it's not for them because their motivated by facts and data the hard stuff..

if I take it to the polar opposite personality type sayyyyyyyyyyyy a freelance artist... that dynamic changes because were dealing with a different type of decision.. its more valuable to them because their motivated by the abstract, the feeling, the inspiration etc.

Picasso baby
 
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DennisD

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No.

Your topic is too broad. You're doing a LOT of extra work by not defining your audience now.
You'll end up writing the thing, trying to sell it, making a handful of sales, asking them questions, rewriting it, reselling it, rewriting it, etc.
Start smaller.

Right now, determine where you can provide the most value. Is it in relationships? Climbing the corporate ladder? Where is there the most need, what can you help the most with.

Right now you're looking to write/sell this:
  • Why Leadership is Important for Anybody
  • How to Make Your Life Better by Improving Your Leadership Skills
It's too vague. There are HUNDREDS of ebooks out there. People will look at that and go "hm. interesting" and then move on and not buy.

If you narrow it down, you actually give yourself a chance.
  • Getting The Promotion: How to Lead While Being a Follower
  • Getting The Girl of Your Dreams: What are Corporate CEOs doing to get any girl they want? (Hint: It has nothing to do with money)
  • Never Be Taken Advantage of Again: Take Control of Interactions With Strangers
  • Winning Her Back: How A Simple Mindset Change Ended My Lonelyness
By writing the book to a specific demographic in a specific crowd, you're a lot more likely to succeed. You'll also have laser focus while writing.

Hell, you can even write one book of each. Write a book based towards the ladder-climbing career jockies, rehash the same basic info and apply that to dating, and then to marriage, and then to dealing with difficult siblings, and then to negotiating with strangers, etc.

I'm sending you a free copy of my book. I know it's about video marketing, but I talk a LOT about defining your target customer and getting in their head. Take every instance I talk about "video" and just replace that with "ebook" or whatever.
 
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therebel

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I'm sorry, I can appreciate what your saying, but I WILL NOT do that.

I have an instinct about things like this & while I'm sure your experienced enough to know what your talking about, I know I can do it this way.

If I do it that way it wont be 100% of what it could be, its supposed to be the ONLY product like it..

the ONLY product that can unify sales, leadership, success with women & lay it out for people in a comprehensive enough manor that they can apply it immediately.

If I narrow it down I have a generic book that sells on amazon for 5 bucks

If I do it this way I have a CLASSIC that nobody has every done before and nobody will EVER touch..

I know why you might think its bad to do it this way, but I need to do it this way.. It can and will work because I'm going to see to it that it does.
 

DennisD

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I'm sorry, I can appreciate what your saying, but I WILL NOT do that.

I have an instinct about things like this & while I'm sure your experienced enough to know what your talking about, I know I can do it this way.

If I do it that way it wont be 100% of what it could be, its supposed to be the ONLY product like it..

the ONLY product that can unify sales, leadership, success with women & lay it out for people in a comprehensive enough manor that they can apply it immediately.

If I narrow it down I have a generic book that sells on amazon for 5 bucks

If I do it this way I have a CLASSIC that nobody has every done before and nobody will EVER touch..

I know why you might think its bad to do it this way, but I need to do it this way.. It can and will work because I'm going to see to it that it does.

I understand what you're saying too, because I used to think the same exact way.
However lack of demographic focus is a newbie mistake.
I predict that jumping straight to an "ultimate product" will leave you completely dead in the water.

And there's nothing wrong with a $5 amazon book.
Here's a link to an $8 Amazon book. One of the best I've ever read, published by a millionaire with years of fastlane experience. Maybe you've heard of it: Amazon.com: The Millionaire Fastlane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Lifetime eBook: MJ DeMarco: Kindle Store
 
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therebel

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what If I already had the demographic focus down to an extremely deep deep deep level, I'm talking like... psychologically deep, but I just didn't know where to find these types? what would your advice be then?
 

DennisD

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what If I already had the demographic focus down to an extremely deep deep deep level, I'm talking like... psychologically deep, but I just didn't know where to find these types? what would your advice be then?

I would tell you
  1. You don't know your demo as well as you thought you did if you don't know where they hang out or how to reach them.
  2. You THINK you've got a targeted demo in mind but you don't.
 

therebel

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Apr 20, 2013
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and I'd tell you your a big meanie and go do it my way anyway, sorry I'm uncompromising...

I could explain it, but it wouldn't make sense, I just need to do it and show people.
 
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1step

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You're setting yourself up for failure.

Your lack of willingness to take advice is troublesome.
 

XOthermic

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Man they got so much material on this. Why would they get it from you?

Tyler Durden - Blueprint decoded. Why get anything else?
 

therebel

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Man they got so much material on this. Why would they get it from you?

Tyler Durden - Blueprint decoded. Why get anything else?
Because this is way better than that...

I have it, it's massive information overload, its clunky and impractical.

its 300 bucks, its outdated, its only geared towards pick up & not everyone is into pick up

yes its great, but it could be better

& I plan on fully exploiting that in this product.

fun fact: There were dudes on his website saying I should be an instructor at one point.
 
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adoredunchin

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so you are asking in the topic about thoughts. you get some good thoughts and all you do is trying to defend your way ?
yeah that makes total sense. what are you even doing here ? trying to sell your little book here ?
 

therebel

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I would tell you
  1. You don't know your demo as well as you thought you did if you don't know where they hang out or how to reach them.
  2. You THINK you've got a targeted demo in mind but you don't.

I think I have a more narrow demo now..

leading against the odds & how it leads to all the benefits I pointed out in the original idea,

I think this is more narrow but still does a good job of nailing the core thing I wanted to accomplish with this product.

the skill of "LEADING AGAINST THE ODDS"

The world has subjugated people and indoctrinated them into being FOLLOWERS with no control over their OWN LIVES.

The culture of the industrial age suppresses our COURAGE like a SLAVE who's been broken so he wont try to escape!!!

Follow, Follow, Follow, How do you get control? Follow some more.

F*ck that! We've been following instructions since elementary school, it's bullshit

Stop Following and start LEADING

When You want a promotion, You have to deal with somebody who's perceived as superior to you, the same with a hot girl, a sale from a customer, a job interview, The odd's are always against you in these situations because of some perceived superiority & you know it so as a reflex you become small, you get quieter, your less witty, you loose control & it gets left up to hope.

HOPE IS NOT A STRATEGY!!!

Here's a Strategy:

You cultivate the skill of leading against the odds & use it to become a stronger leader than anyone who's in the way of you getting what you want & run through them like a special forces trained killing machine extracting whatever it is your trying to get in the process.

when you want a sale, guess what? the odds are against you... whoever your trying to sell doesn't want to part with his money. when you want to date or have sex with a hot girl the odds are also against you, she doesn't want to be easy or maybe she thinks she's too good for you, want a promotion? there's 20 other dude's in line for it that are more qualified than you, want a job interview? SAME situation, the odds are against you.

but the loophole in all this is the secret that EVERYONE IS A FOLLOWER

they went through the same social conditioning you did, so the superiority is an illusion, there is no superiority or inferiority, just leading and following.

The people who make sales are just the people who can LEAD customer's, the guys who get girls are just the guy's who can LEAD girls, the guy's who get promotions and interviews are just guy's who LEAD their way through promotions and interviews.

All you need to do is understand that the "odds" are imagined and the whole superiority these situations project are ALL IN YOUR HEAD & these people become followers ready to take orders

are you tired of being forced to follow people that think their better than you?

are you ready to lead?

its all eyes on you.
 
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1step

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I'd rather make a mistake of ambition than not know what I could have done if I did it my way.

Fair enough but why ask for our opinion if you are going to do it your way and your way only?

Validation of your amazingness?
 

therebel

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Fair enough but why ask for our opinion if you are going to do it your way and your way only?

Validation of your amazingness?
Possibly

but I really don't do it intentionally

I have really really bad ADD, so I think in a way that's different from most people, most people think in a way that's left brain orientated, I'm more right brain orientated.

that means, following instructions, remembering stuff, focusing on details are all weak area's for me, but seeing the big picture, understanding people and emotions & coming up with good ideas are very strong for me.

so since most people think in a linear fashion while my thought process is abstract -this always happens, I end up arguing with people about everything because we can't see eye to eye on anything, but I always get the job done my way because I know how to put it together that way, it's how i've always done it.

I like the getting every perspective so I can see what I might be missing, but yeah, I'm not exactly easy to get along with.

i think that's why they say people with ADD are better at running companies than working for them.

we see the "big magical solution" that most people miss out on because their looking at the details through a microscope (which isn't a bad thing, just better for certain things) while we see the whole picture & understand how it works on a deep level so although were more general, we can exploit things most people never think of.

this has been the routine my whole life, people fight me, I know I'm right, I prove it, they shut up till next time. people assume I think I know everything, but that's not the case, I'm just looking from a different angle so it seems that way. I really apologize if I offend anyone, it's just the way I think, I can't change it.
 

The-J

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Scrap your product

Find your market, then your traffic, then see what kind of product they want/need at said traffic source

Then sell that
 
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therebel

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Scrap your product

Find your market, then your traffic, then see what kind of product they want/need at said traffic source

Then sell that

I already found the market, have the traffic source and the product is modeled after whats already out there for them and made to be an improvement on that.

another reason I don't listen to people, don't know the whole story but already have a radical answer.
 

The-J

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I already found the market, have the traffic source and the product is modeled after whats already out there for them and made to be an improvement on that.

another reason I don't listen to people, don't know the whole story but already have a radical answer.

So why are you asking us? Obviously you don't value anyone's opinion here. Plus, you're asking the wrong questions.

So, let me ask you: what's preventing you from selling it?
 

therebel

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good question...

right now I think its authority status in a word, the current people who run this market have authority like hell... so the main challenge is not selling this, because honestly I can sell shit back to a dog..

it's establishing authority in my market, which is what I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do... I have a general idea that I plan on narrowing down as I experiment little by little.. ie. asking for feedback, getting flamed on here, learning from this experience..

imagine I came on here & the whole site loved the idea and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, people would be hitting me up to get in on it left and right..

well, the only difference between this and that is the perception of authority, its the same in a sales environment, if people doubt you know what your talking about.. they wont buy shit from you, but if you come off like an authority, you can sell them their own shoes.
 
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The-J

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good question...

right now I think its authority status in a word, the current people who run this market have authority like hell... so the main challenge is not selling this, because honestly I can sell shit back to a dog..

it's establishing authority in my market, which is what I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do it... I have a general idea that I plan on narrowing down as I experiment little by little.. ie. asking for feedback, getting flamed on here, learning from this experience..

imagine I came on here & the whole site loved the idea and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, people would be hitting me up to get in on it left and right..

well, the only difference between this and that is the perception of authority, its the same in a sales environment, if people doubt you know what your talking about.. they wont buy shit from you, but if you come off like an authority, you can sell them their own shoes.

If you're going after self-help, it's true. Your market is extremely crowded. I could name 100 self-help authors right now, and so can you.

The reason why new self-help authors succeed is by the way they spin it.

As far as authority, well, MJ broke into the business niche and sold a ton of copies, having never written anything of the sort before. He told a story and said 'F*ck the rest, I'm the real deal! Don't worry about my lack of book-writing experience, or my lack of doing seminars'. It worked.

So what's your story? Tell a compelling story and authority becomes yours.
 

therebel

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[video=youtube;SaMreUKk5Fk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaMreUKk5Fk[/video]

ok, I'm really general so this isn't gonna make sense to anyone but...

this guy challenged every rapper in friendly competition & through challenging rap sensationalized the shit out of himself

I'm talking a rap verse that made national news.. has that ever even happened before?

I want to do something similar, I'm just working on the creative direction of that idea..

Keep in mind this is GENERAL, not specific, I'm not going to put out a tony robbins diss record lol, I'm going to emulate the concept of being so BOLD and by challenging EVERYTHING people stand for everyone has to talk about it..

In one broad Machiavellian style stroke of epic awesomeness

in other words being so bold I AM the compelling story, kinda like how all my threads on here get a ton of views and comments but I want to do it in a more positive & productive fashion than this, this is a bit crazy.
 

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