What are the chances student loans get wiped out?

[ChickenHawk]

At what point do we get it so wrong in teaching our youth, that the little kid with such big dreams ends up as a young adult with a useless journalism degree?

Good point, with one qualifier. A journalism degree actually has some practical uses. It teaches writing skills, public relations, communication, etc. Lots of those skills come in handy, especially these days, when far too many people can barely put together a decent paragraph. Alas, it's the non-technical side of a journalism degree (stuff that might be called indoctrination by us cynical types) that can leave graduates dumber than when they started.

Disclaimer: I have a journalism degree, so I'm definitely biased. Then again, I've actually used that degree in the real business world, so I'm living proof that it's not quite as useless as it sounds.

Now, a degree in women's studies or what-not, ugh...what use does that have in the real world? I can't imagine a single practical application, except to indoctrinate the next generation on how oppressed they are.

 

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[Vigilante]

LOL I was thinking the same thing. I agree in concept with his post, but got stuck on the journalism comment as I see that as one of few worthwhile degrees aside from those who need credentials for specific professions.

His main point is salient, but journalism degrees are worthwhile for a variety of reasons. I might have picked on "women and gender studies" or other completely worthless parchment.

 

[fhs8]

Good job reading only parts of the article that you want to read.

No. I did read the entire article. The difference in default rates is because while some loans aren't in default now they are expected to be later. So I would consider the $20 billion in loses to be more accurate if the projections are correct. So saying that student loans are profitable for the government is very misleading because the private sector would lower the price of the bonds (if they were bundled into bonds) to take into account defaults in the future.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fit-off-student-loans/?utm_term=.eb91a35e7062

"Delisle likes to explain this by comparing student loan risks to the risks of Greek government bonds (which hold a very high risk of default). The CBO methodology, says "would show buying up all the Greek bonds as profitable." That's because you're using Treasury bonds to pay for a much riskier bond, and counting the higher returns you get from the bond, but not taking the risk of default into account. Of course that's going to show up as profitable!"

 

[Waspy]

Now, a degree in women's studies or what-not, ugh...what use does that have in the real world? I can't imagine a single practical application, except to indoctrinate the next generation on how oppressed they are.

This has long been my view point. However a few years ago I made this exact point to somebody I didn't know too well.

She looked at me, a bit puzzled, and said "For some people, uni (UK speak, sorry) is about expanding their own knowledge of a subject which is important to them. There doesn't need to be an end game."

Now, yes, it is still a very expensive way of obtaining knowledge, and yes, if this was a person's reason for attending uni then they would be better waiting until their fastlane business was at full speed and cruise control, not before. However, since then I have always tried to keep in mind that people go to uni for different reasons. I still maintain that if you are blindly going to uni to "get a good job" you are on the wrong path, but if you have your reason, and it offers value (I imagine rare) then go for it.

Live and let live I suppose.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

"For some people, uni (UK speak, sorry) is about expanding their own knowledge of a subject which is important to them.

Interesting insight. What often strikes me, though, about people pursuing this type of degree is how seldom they're the ones actually paying for it. Too often, others are footing the bill -- mommy, daddy, and/or the government/taxpayers.

She looked at me, a bit puzzled, and said "For some people, uni (UK speak, sorry) is about expanding their own knowledge of a subject which is important to them. There doesn't need to be an end game."

Is it just me, or does this sounds like a pompous excuse to delay adulthood? Call me cynical, but I wonder who was paying her bills while she "expanded her knowledge."

 

[Waspy]

Is it just me, or does this sounds like a pompous excuse to delay adulthood? Call me cynical, but I wonder who was paying her bills while she "expanded her knowledge."

Completely agree. On the whole it IS an excuse to delay adulthood, although I do truely believed she meant what she was saying.

A few extra details which might fill out the story at little;

A) She was Canadian, I am unaware of the fee system in Canada (post or present).
B) I forget what she studied (she is now c.50 years old).
C) She is a fairly successful business person (net worth well into the millions)
D) She didn't come from big money, middle class, her parents probably did pay (useless uni was free at the time, if she had been in the U.K. At uni age it would have been free...)

The adulthood point is what I was trying to get at when I said people would be better getting money (fastlane) then expanding their knowledge, not spending money to expand their knowledge

EDIT: When I mentioned free uni, I did of course, mean paid for by the tax payer.

 

[Ninjakid]

As a person who thinks any civilized society should have free post-secondary education, I can't help but wonder, where do you live where you're expecting the government is going to one day step in and forgive your debt? You're obviously not in Canada, because I don't see that happening anytime in the near future here.

How long are you planning on keeping these debt around? Do you have a cut off point, like when it gets to $100,000? $200,000?

I honestly have no idea why I'm even responding to this thread. I think I'm one of those people who just like's hearing themselves speak. It's not rocket science, dude. Pay it off like every other person who doesn't like having stupid debt would do.

 

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[mrarcher]

Scotland has free college! It also comes with massive unemployment, low wages and people in their 40s in college because when they finish a course they start another one. Much like free healthcare (which just lowers the quality of care)its just a terrible idea.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Haha, I figured I'd have some journalism majors chime in.

I picked journalism because it is a common degree.

Journalism:

Recent grad unemployment: 8.2% (up from 5.8% in 2009, and continues to climb at a .5% - 1% rate per year)
Recent grad average start wage: $34,000 ($36,000 in 2010)

(source: Forbes. But the forum will not let me put in a link, or quote @ChickenHawk or @Vigilante without giving me an error!)

Keep in mind I was talking about the masses, and not the "fastlane mindset" minority. Most will never make more than $65,000 or so, after years and years of working.

How about a degree in Dance Therapy? University of Washington offers a bachelor's degree. Then go on to Naropa University and get your master's!

 

[ZF Lee]

Good post.

The education system we have now is just mass producing sidewalkers, which I think is bad for not only business, but a huge disservice to people that are capable of so much more.

At what point do we get it so wrong in teaching our youth, that the little kid with such big dreams ends up as a young adult with a useless journalism degree?

Heart-breaking.

We could be in trouble if it is really that bad! I mean, we would require a bit of human resources to ignite our money seedlings, wouldn't we? I can't bear the thought of workers making a mess out of my Fastlane systems!

Even the giants like Amazon and eBay are adjusting constantly to ensure people don't game their systems and make a mess out of their legacy structures.

 

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[Kak]

Sorry, Bernie lost this year. Try again in 2020 for "free college".

LOL! Best post this morning.

 

[fhs8]

Haha, I figured I'd have some journalism majors chime in.

I picked journalism because it is a common degree.

Journalism:

Recent grad unemployment: 8.2% (up from 5.8% in 2009, and continues to climb at a .5% - 1% rate per year)
Recent grad average start wage: $34,000 ($36,000 in 2010)

How about a degree in Dance Therapy? University of Washington offers a bachelor's degree. Then go on to Naropa University and get your master's!

I have NO IDEA why they bring up the unemployment for majors other than to deceive people. The unemployment does not include people working at Burger King. If someone with a college degree is working at a job that does not require any degree then they are employed. I'm sure most people wouldn't be happy if they went to college for four years and went on to work at a place that does not require a degree.

There is another figure called the underemployment rate which is well over 30% for college graduates in general.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market/college-labor-market_compare-majors.html

For journalism the underemployment rate according to a US census survey is 43.7%. No wonder people are having trouble paying back their student loans. There aren't enough jobs available for the oversupply of college graduates.

 

[EvanOkanagan]

What are the chances the government pays off all my mortgages?

 

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[AndrewNC]

@MJ DeMarco is the U.S Government.
@ChickenHawk is my creative writing professor.
@Kak is the taxpayer.

Myself and 100 other fastlaners spend 4 years learning from chickenhawk how to write books; with the money MJ paid her to teach us - with our promise to pay him back.

After four years of partying in Scottsdale with MJ's money, I decided that I didn't learn enough to make a living (or I was just too lazy to do anything with what I learned), so the obvious solution is to never pay him back.

He's got enough money, so no big deal...he'll just forgive the loan.

But in order to keep the Fastlane country running, MJ has no other option, but to charge Kak $100,000 per year for an INSIDERS membership - because he is one of those fools who is actually working hard and providing products and jobs to society.

Let's point fingers at kak and call him greedy...

He doesn't think this is fair, and he doesn't want to pay - but MJ just has paypal take the money from his bank account without asking him. He has no other option but to pay for our four years of partying.

Eventually Kak gets sick and tired of this; so he finds a loophole and takes his hard work some other FastLand where he doesn't have to pay taxes that pay for OP to sit around and play video games all day.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter, because FastLand can just print more money on it's own and throw it into circulation...

Too political?

 

[Waspy]

@MJ DeMarco is the U.S Government.
@ChickenHawk is my creative writing professor.
@Kak is the taxpayer.

Myself and 100 other fastlaners spend 4 years learning from chickenhawk how to write books; with the money MJ paid her to teach us - with our promise to pay him back.

After four years of partying in Scottsdale with MJ's money, I decided that I didn't learn enough to make a living (or I was just too lazy to do anything with what I learned), so the obvious solution is to never pay him back.

He's got enough money, so no big deal...he'll just forgive the loan.

But in order to keep the Fastlane country running, MJ has no other option, but to charge Kak $100,000 per year for an INSIDERS membership - because he is one of those fools who is actually working hard and providing products and jobs to society.

Let's point fingers at kak and call him greedy...

He doesn't think this is fair, and he doesn't want to pay - but MJ just has paypal take the money from his bank account without asking him. He has no other option but to pay for our four years of partying.

Eventually Kak gets sick and tired of this; so he finds a loophole and takes his hard work some other FastLand where he doesn't have to pay taxes that pay for OP to sit around and play video games all day.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter, because FastLand can just print more money on it's own and throw it into circulation...

Too political?

[HASHTAG]#MindBlown[/HASHTAG]

 

[Kak]

@AndrewNC awesome post!

Too bad we have to dumb it down. These Bernie kids scare the hell out of me.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

These Bernie kids scare the hell out of me.

 

[mrarcher]

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,“but he got $10!”

“Yeah, that's right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!” “That's true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. — Professor of Economics.

 

[Waspy]

These analogies are getting out of hand.

Look guys, don't go to college just because someone says it's what you should do. Don't avoid college because someone tells you not to go.

Look at your goals, look where you want to be, look at what you want to do with your life. Now, do you NEED college to get there? Yes? Then go! No? Don't.

 

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[EvanOkanagan]

There's the old saying: "There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers."

Which after reading the title of this thread you think-- actually, no, that question was dumb AF.

And it really was.

However, these dumb questions often provoke many great insights and mindsets to be shared (as in this thread)--which reiterate the values of the Fastlane. I like to think that was the OP's purpose with this thread, so thanks @juan917

 

[Envision]

How about you pay me so I can pay off my student loans and then with that payment I will teach you how to pay off your student loans with my secret method that only costs one payment of...

$3,997


Let me know, my secret is revolutionary..

 

[Kak]

Maybe if the private sector was totally involved they would tell the students,"No this is a bad investment. We won't lend you money for this." The free market would help students out a lot. A bank wouldn't lend you money to open a ski shop in the middle of Iowa. I don't see why college should be any different.

A fastlaner makes plans for the future. A sidewalker thinks very short term things such as what the weather is like at this college or what the teachers will be like. Students spend more time on one assignment than they do on thinking how valuable their skills would be after college.

I love when people understand economics and the principles of the free market.

Or... Gasp... Higher interest rates for higher risk lending. If they don't believe they can make money on it why should they lend?

This is perfect.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Higher interest rates for higher risk lending.

But that would make my Critical Theories of Medieval Diaspora on Western Sexuality degree too expensive!

 

[jpanarra]

Medieval Diaspora on Western Sexuality degree

I wouldn't go for the degree.. but I'll prob take a class on that ...

 

[Rawr]

This is a really, really good podcast episode when it starts hitting AI and virtual reality. Kevin projects any job where you need to be 'efficient' will soon be gone to AI, who will do it with the power of 100 brains. So the creatives will actually be better off, that English degree might be worthwhile...

Kevin Kelly – AI, Virtual Reality, and The Inevitable | The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

 

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[Mr.Donnerhuhn]

the creatives will actually be better off, that English degree might be worthwhile..

Didn't listen to the podcast you linked yet, but I'll just toss this in.

The ones who are "better off" have been, are currently, and will always be the ones who can adapt. It doesn't matter what the environmental circumstance is, what matters is how you respond to it. It doesn't matter what degree you do or don't have, what matters is what you do with what you've got.

 

[Rawr]

Didn't listen to the podcast you linked yet, but I'll just toss this in.

The ones who are "better off" have been, are currently, and will always be the ones who can adapt. It doesn't matter what the environmental circumstance is, what matters is how you respond to it. It doesn't matter what degree you do or don't have, what matters is what you do with what you've got.

Those who can use the language effectively to inspire, sell, educate, convince and otherwise will be better off than those who haven't practiced these things.

 

[Pilot35]

 

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