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Utopia of Producers?

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bigboy

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Reading Unscripted right now and I was thinking... Is it possible to have a utopia where everyone is a producer and to a degree self-employed? A society where everyone provides value and profits from it. Reality is that 99% of people are consumers and a lot of those consumers are broke and unhappy because they do not have freedom that money can bring. What do you guys think? Maybe one way to implement this universal basic income at the poverty line. If someone wants better stuff they need to provide value to society and they profit from it. Or they could just do nothing and live at poverty level, but they would probably be happier than they were working a dead end job. Robots can replace menial service jobs, so we need more people to innovate and produce.
 

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bigboy

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What happens when there's no work because all the companies are outsourcing to robots who never get tired and complain about union rights? I think Universal Basic Income would provide some freedom to the unemployed. People who want to get more need to produce and provide value.
 

MoreVolume

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What happens when there's no work because all the companies are outsourcing to robots who never get tired and complain about union rights? I think Universal Basic Income would provide some freedom to the unemployed. People who want to get more need to produce and provide value.
you shouldn't be thinking about this
life has always been about the survival of the fittest
there will always be losers
just make sure that you're not one of them

most people revert to that "we have to save everyone" line of thinking because they can't get anything going for themselves
 

scottmsul

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Even as an employee in a "dead-end job" you still have to produce more than you consume to have the job in the first place. I think what MJ was talking about in his book was shifting your mindset from consumption to production. For example when you go home at night do you watch television (consumer) or work on your fastlane (producer)?

A UBI would likely make things worse. It provides people with the means to consume more while producing less, so it would incentivize lower production and more consumption. The net production of society would likely go down, so there would be less stuff to go around, therefore people would end up poorer overall.
 

Rabby

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What happens when there's no work because all the companies are outsourcing to robots who never get tired and complain about union rights? I think Universal Basic Income would provide some freedom to the unemployed. People who want to get more need to produce and provide value.
When that occurs, productive people will find productive things to do, other than the jobs that are now filled by Roombas. Some productive people will buy lots of robots and invent more and more things for them to do, and before you know it we live in the Jetson's world.

Unproductive people will still be unproductive, and will still complain all the time and worry about things that make no actual difference in their lives. They'll use all that worrying as an excuse for why they have produced nothing. Professional ruminators. Eventually we'll probably feel sorry for them, so we'll train a few Roombas to roll by the sofa and squirt mashed potatoes into these people's open mouths, so they don't starve to death while watching TV.
 

GrandRub

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you shouldn't be thinking about this
life has always been about the survival of the fittest
there will always be losers
just make sure that you're not one of them
sure - but as a civilized society we also should protect the "losers" so that they dont starve or die on the streets.

not everybody will drive a lambo or own a beach house and thats ok - but everybody should have a roof and a meal. even the losers.
 

Rabby

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sure - but as a civilized society we also should protect the "losers" so that they dont starve or die on the streets.

not everybody will drive a lambo or own a beach house and thats ok - but everybody should have a roof and a meal. even the losers.
I'm not saying we launch them all into space or anything, but I wonder how this idea holds up over time. Essentially rewarding people for being dependents, taking on their problems as our own. Within limits it's good to help people, but when you get into these things that "we" ... "should" ... universally do, you start down a path of rosy ideas that in reality bring disaster.

Here, Seattle's benevolent policies for example:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw
 

GrandRub

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yeah its not an easy topic. for sure. its not all black and white. and there are always people gaming the welfare system. sure sure
 

lowtek

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Please stop with the baseless and inane fear mongering.

This "universal basic income" scam is just another scheme to get the people hopelessly dependent on the government. It's ONLY a tool for controlling the masses, nothing more. It will neither deal with wealth inequality, nor provide a mechanism for subsistence in a world taken over by automation.

The scam relies on the faulty understanding of the masses that increased automation means less work for the common man. We have 7x'd our population since the industrial revolution, yet here we are ... still plenty of jobs. Population has roughly doubled since the proliferation of the modern personal computer, and yet ... still plenty of jobs.

If you believe that "artificial intelligence" is a credible threat to the job of the common man, or even the entrepreneur, I'd ask that you go investigate a phenomenon called adversarial attacks. There is currently no defense against this, no serious proposals in the works, and I'm not hopeful that we'll have a robust one in the near future, given the susceptibility of even the human brain to optical illusions. If mother nature can't solve the problem in a billion years, I'm doubtful that we can in the next few.

The reality is that good paying jobs are far more endangered by globalism and importing cheap third world labor than it is automation. I wonder why it is the case that there is such a strong overlap between those who promote a UBI as well as promoters of an open borders immigration policy?
 

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