This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult

[Roli]

This article is probably wrong. When I was a child, I hated maths and got low scores. Now that I am 16,

I hate to break it to you, but you're still a child, a mature one, but still a child

 

[ChrisV]

Lolz, calm down @ChrisV, get that BP down to normal

I think the reason you get so much push back on these posts, is because people here are so mired in the no excuses, it's all down to me culture, that they see anything like this as an attack on it.

Unfortunately they confuse somebody who whines about life not being fair, with someone like yourself who points out very valid psychological and personality traits that go into making a human being. I haven't even watched the video yet, just read some of the replies and backs and forths on the thread. However I'm sure the research is bonafide...

Anyway, people don't like being told there are things that happen that are beyond our control, or that certain personality traits lean towards certain actions. However the evidence of such surrounds us every day. Would Shaq have been an NBA star player if he was 5'6" and weighed 140 pounds? Maybe, but probably not, as his small stature would have worked directly against him.

Of course you will always see a Spud Webb in the NBA, somebody who isn't over 6'6" and still manages to be great, however it's not the norm and the number one thing you need to be a great basketball player is height, which of course totally beyond your control.

Another example of this is the marshmallow experiment, whereby children who managed to delay gratification by waiting for a bigger reward (more marshmallows) at the expense of instant gratification (they got to eat the marshmallow immediately), did better in adult life than the ones who ate the sweet straight away.

Hahaha thank you. See I need to understand this stuff because since impulsivity leads to poorer performance, if we can take measures to curb impulsivity we can perform better at almost everything. I have a big important post coming on that that I think you'll love too. Curbing impulsivity is one of the #1 best things you can do for success.

Actually now that you mention basketball, you got me thinking. I wonder if with some ingenuity a short guy actually could make it in the NBA

Maybe by using a different style someone could use being short as an advantage to be nimble and agile enough to bounce through other players. I mean think about why height matters. Height matters (as far as I can tell) because you're simply closer to the net, making it easier for them to score and defend against other players' shots. But what if rather than being a great scorer the short guy was just a great assist. He played the field in a way where he was great at getting the ball to tall players that were nearer the net. Or maybe the reason that tall NBA players do so well is they're just using a style that's only suited for tall players. Like in baseball you have outfielders, catchers, pitchers, and each niche has different strengths.

Or maybe you could innovate a style better suited for short guys. For instance wrestling was always about brute force. Then Carlos Gracie came along, this tiny skinny guy who did Brazilian Ju Jitsu, and nobody could touch them. He used physics and leverage rather than brute force to dominate his opponents. Now BJJ is all over MMA. He was one of the top fighters of all time, and some of the other members of the Gracie Brazilian BJJ family were even more frail. But they positively annihilated the competition. But before Gracie people probably would have said "you need genes that are good for strength to be a good fighter" but by coming up with a style that was better suited for their body type, they were able to dominate even without those genes.

So maybe there could be a basketball style that can be innovated that's simply better suited for smaller guys.

I say this because maybe with some innovation and determination maybe even many of our hard limitations can be overcome.

So pay attention to that guys. I'm not for making excuses at all. I'm for understanding what is, because it's only when you understand what is that you can come up with what can be.

Now of cause there are various correlation/causation questions to ask here, like what was the socioeconomic spread of the children. However as far as I can work out, the experiment(s) took that into account.

Anyway, thanks for the video, keep posting that stuff you seem to have a knack for discovering it.

The new version of the Marshmallow Experiment accounted for Socioeconomic status, and the effect size got cut in half. It was originally something like .6, but after controlling for SES it was something like .3. It kinda aggravated me because all the pop science articles came out saying "Marshmallow test debunked!" and that's not the case at all. It was just smaller when you controlled for SES, which is to be expected. Correlations usually go down when you add controls.

 

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[ChrisV]

Meditation, reading books, listening to podcasts -- mostly action fakes

You've come to the wrong place buddy. This forum is fun of avid readers and avid meditators. And with that, you've just earned the top spot on my ignore list.

For anyone else reading, Meditation is one of the single best things you can do for your life. Meditation has improved success in every single area of my life.

Tim Ferris's book Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers

WHAT DO THEY HAVE IN COMMON?
In this book, you’ll naturally look for common habits and recommendations, and you should. Here are a few patterns, some odder than others:
More than 80% of the interviewees have some form of daily mindfulness or meditationpractice”

Excerpt From: Timothy Ferriss. “Tools of Titans.” Apple Books.

NOTABLE! - MINDSET - Billionaire Ray Dalio: Meditation is ‘the single most important reason' for my success

Hedge fund billionaire Ray Dalio: Meditation is ‘the single most important reason' for my success While that's a lofty, seemingly hyperbolic claim... he's right. If you'd like the science behind why, I would be happy to provide it. It changes the brain in way that improves certain skills...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

From the Rich Habits survey:

	Wealthy	Poverty	Self-Made
READ - LISTEN TO AUDIO BOOKS DURING COMUTE TO WORK	63%	5%
READ - LOVE READING	86%	26%
READ 2 OR MORE EDUCATION, CAREER-RELATED OR SELF-IMPROVEMENT BOOKS PER MONTH	85%	15%
READ 30 MINUTES EACH DAY EDUCATION, CAREER OR SELF-IMPROVEMENT	88%	2%	96%
READ BIOGRAPHIES OF SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE	58%	9%	68%
READ CURRENT EVENTS	94%	11%	93%
READ EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL	79%	6%	95%
READ FINANCIAL MATERIAL (I.E. WSJ, MONEY MAG, KIPLINGERS ETC)	45%	7%	56%
READ FOR ENTERTAINMENT	11%	79%	3%
READ HISTORY	51%	16%	50%
READ SELF-HELP	55%	7%	71%
READ SOMETHING INSPIRATIONAL EVERY DAY	66%	7%	56%
MEDITATE (VISUALIZATION) DAILY 5 MINUTES OR MORE	49%	4%

 

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[ChrisV]

From MSN.com

If you want your kid to grow up to be financially successful, a new study published in the journal JAMA Psychiatry says you should pay close attention to how they behave early on in life, particularly if they have trouble focusing.

Researchers at the University of Montreal examined the link between the behavior of 2,850 Canadian kindergarteners in the 1980s and the salaries they made once they were in their 30s. The researchers looked at personality traits such as attention span, hyperactivity, physical aggression, obedience, anxiety, and sympathy levels—and they found that several factors influenced their annual earnings later on in life.

Among both boys and girls, the personality trait that was linked with making less money as adults was inattention, i.e. the inability to focus on tasks and the tendency to get easily distracted.

Full article: This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult

 

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[A_Random_Guy]

Typical sidewalk mindset. "Some factor outside of you or outside of your control is responsible!"

No silly, it's YOU all the way. Take ownership, get your shit together, make a plan, work your a$$ off, pivot when necessary and keep at it! Money will magically appear!

P.S. I meant "you" in a general sense, not anyone in particular.

Although I don't agree that antisocial kids will grow up to be unsuccessful, the rest was accurate.
Most of my friends were shy but grew up to be extrovert in high school.
In my opinion, you are correct. The information you feed your child will change the person he becomes.
One of my friends had the habit of showing off his stuff to others. This led him to beg his parents for money every time some new fad took over the internet. As he grew up, his demands got more bothersome. However, his parents kept spoiling him with no discretion. He failed in High School. He demanded his parents to get him enrolled in a private institution with lots of money flowing under the table during admission. Now he is on drugs. His parents are retired and on the verge of being broke. Now they complain that their child grew up to be someone they had never anticipated. It was completely their fault.

The same goes for my case. I was always lazy even as a kid. I'd oversleep even on the day of an exam. First, my dad tried to wake me up early, but eventually, he didn't bother. I never understood the importance of waking up early. After graduating from High School, my sleep schedule got completely messed up. I used to wake up at 4 PM, go to sleep at 11 AM and that took a heavy toll on my body. I missed college most of the time. It took me a year to get back in track. Now, I have a fixed time for waking up at 7:30 AM no matter what I do. Had he made me accustomed to waking up early, I wouldn't have to fail in my first year to realize the importance of waking up.

I agree that it totally depends on the conscience of the child to do what is best for him, but sometimes habits can overcome the maturity mentality barrier. Make it their habit and they will subconsciously do it without having to make a mistake and realizing it later. Dem, I went off-topic I guess.

 

[ChrisV]

Attention is outside of your control? interesting.

 

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[ChrisV]

believing that your childhood behavior has doomed you for life?

Not sure where the article stated that.

 

[guy93777]

the global structure is more important than personnality trait

people are like pawns on a chess board and they think that they are smarter than the rules of the games

the rules are fixed . we can't jump like knights if we are pawns

we can't behave like queens if we are rooks

and no piece can change the rules of chess. they have to submit to the system unless you start a revolution or kick the wrong guy out of office

in a socialist country, this is more difficult to become a bilionaire than in the USA because of taxes laws and so on

so the illusion on control is a real cognitive bias .

almost everybody falls in the trap

Illusion of control - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

quotation :

"The illusion of control is the tendency for people to overestimate their ability to control events; for example, it occurs when someone feels a sense of control over outcomes that they demonstrably do not influence "


you guys are these pawns that think they have absolute control over their lives



..

 

[Mattie]

From MSN.com




Full article: This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult

The think about focus is society teaches you not to focus with distractions. Since people park their children in front of the television or technology of course they don't have a long attention span other than for entertainment and escapism.

 

[ChrisV]

I don’t think anyone that struggles to focus needs to be told how it affects your life and chances of success.

They know who they are.

The question is how do we change it?

View attachment 25254


It is better, though much quieter.

This is a good point, although I don't know that they realize the extent to which it's detrimental. For me, I didnt put two and two together until I was well into my 20's. And once I resolved the attention thing, my results skyrocketed.

How is another question. Off the top of my head.. Neurofeedback, medication, meditation and I'll think of more.

 

[Fassina]

Did they control for family income level and situation? These studies generally don't so what ends up happening is that they find that kids of well off people with good upbringing tend to make more money later in life. And that's no surprise for anyone.

An example of this is that marshmallow study where self control was supposedly measured, when they control for income level, parents education level, and family situation the effect goes away.

Nobody was ever able to accurately replicate that study where kids that resisted 1 marshmallow now got 2 later made more money, it's just hey if you were raised well guess what you'll probably do well. This sounds like a similar situation.

 

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[Fassina]

I've followed the Marshmallow study very closely, and I have never ever heard of the effect disappearing once you control for other factors. Impulsivity is literally one of the most studied phenomena in psychology and study after study corroborates the idea that impulsivity is absolutely detrimental to almost all aspects of life success. And I'm being serious, there are literally hundreds, but more like thousands of studies corroborating this. Its one of the most studied things in all of the social sciences. If you don't have self control, you're F*cked.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLcFCs7_ZKA

It's just wrong, yet pretty much every non fiction book references it for some reason..

You are also taking averages too seriously, some traits certainly do improve income level for average office john, it doesn't mean these traits are as beneficial to outliers like us.. Being good at following orders for instance might make you a better employee, but it certainly doesn't make you a better entrepreneur.

 

[Deleted50669]

Why would someone waste time giving this energy? It's in the past, and they can't control it. Waste of time, Unnecessary evaluation.

 

[Fassina]

Listen, I'm not going to go back and forth. I'm a professional statistician and most of my work is in the Social Sciences. These Science YouTube videos have to simply everything because they're for a lay audience. There's a personality trait called Conscientiousness, which is the polar opposite of Impulsivity.



Conscientiousness is literally the best statistical predictor we have of life success. It correlates to income at the .4 level. It correlates to grades at the .5 level. These numbers are astronomical in psychology. Almost nothing correlates that high. Conscientiousness is literally a better predictor of success than IQ.

No matter what you can possibly say about the Marshmallow Experiment, again, there are literally hundreds or thousands of studies corroborating this effect. the Marshmallow Experiment was one highly publicized of thousands.

Delay Discounting: I'm a k, You're a k

Delay discounting is the decline in the present value of a reward with delay to its receipt. Across a variety of species, populations, and reward types, value declines hyperbolically with delay. Value declines steeply with shorter delays, but more shallowly ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They're going to have to do better than purporting methodological flaws in one study to take down an entire field of research.

Again, Impulsivity is one of the most studied phenomena there is in the sciences. Who cares about Marshmallows. There's mountains and mountains of data supporting this. Criminals are more impulsive, fat people are more impulsive, poor people are more impulsive, drug addicts are more impulsive. We know this for an absolute fact. And some silly study about Marshmallows is not the only thing we go off with this.

Dude I'm asking if in this study they accounted for an important factor to determine it's accuracy, and giving an example of one where they didn't to give the question merit.

I'm not arguing against the big five. I know about it, I'm also well versed in statistics and p values, statistical significance, bayes theorem end all. My point is not to argue against academically accepted concepts based on one flawed study.

I was trying to determine if this study deserves any attention, because you used a click baity title. Calm down, I'm not your enemy..

 

[ChrisV]

Dude I'm asking if in this study they accounted for an important factor to determine it's accuracy, and giving an example of one where they didn't to give the question merit.

I'm not arguing against the big five. I know about it, I'm also well versed in statistics and p values, statistical significance, bayes theorem end all. My point is not to argue against academically accepted concepts based on one flawed study.

I was trying to determine if this study deserves any attention, because you used a click baity title. Calm down, I'm not your enemy..

And the criticisms of the Marshmallow experiment are fair. Walter Mischel went off the deep end finding a bunch of crap that probably wasn't there. He the attributed it to 'oh the kids who ignored it just didnt look.' The rest of the world was just as bad. They concluded that it was genetic when the evidence didn't fully point to that. One thing the evidence does point to is that impulsivity and poor life outcomes go together like Marshmallows and Smores. While this isn't an actual study, this author surveyed a couple hundred millionaires and found much of the same things:

MINDSET - FEATURED! - Author spent 5 years interviewing 177 selfmade millionaires to find their secrets. Findings inside.

"Corley conducted a survey by interviewing 233 wealthy people who make $160,000 or more in annual income and hold at least $3.2 million in net liquid assets (177 of whom were self-made, coming from poverty or the middle class) and 128 poor people who make less than $35,000 per year and have less...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

All these things cluster together. Wealthy people go to the gym, they eat well, they control their alcohol intake. Why, is a whole 'nother topic.. but just for now we're showing that they cluster together.

 

[ChrisV]

Being good at following orders for instance might make you a better employee, but it certainly doesn't make you a better entrepreneur.

And yes, psychology seems to support this as well. The psychological profile of an entrepreneur is a lot like an artist or musician. They don't like following the norm or tradition. They're high in Openness to Experience (creativity) and not necessarily high in conscientiousness.

JP break it down well:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwH4cEOICGg

 

[Fassina]

I mean re: the newest large scale marshmallow study.. I mean I'd literally have to read through the entire thing to see what they did. The devil is in the details, and i honestly don't have the time. We know all of those things... ie childhood poverty, impulsivity, low conscientiousness.. and we don't exactly know why. Certain genes seem to influence it, but that doesn't seem like the full answer. Another answer may be that impulsivity is an adaptive trait to cause put to 'get while the gettin is good.' The other answer is that impulsivity is simply the cause of most people's woes. I tend to think it's a combination of all of the above, but the main message here is that if you work on impulsivity and self-control, it acts as an upward spiral.

That's why I subscribe to these channels, they do it for me, Scishow is better than most, they tend to do more and go the extra mile.

The cause in my opinion based on my evolutionary psychology knowledge is probably just 2 different evolutionary strategies. One that uses impulsivity, crime, short term focused. And one that uses conscientiousness, social conformity and long term focused.

The short term strategy stopped working around 50-100 years ago in the western world, with better technology, dna evidence, cameras etc. But before then it worked very well, you could commit crime with very little risk and get ahead that way.

What we are seeing now are the effects of the inability of this strategy to adapt and work in our modern environment. Most of the socioeconomical problems our society is going to face this century will probably be related to it imo.

 

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[ChrisV]

That's why I subscribe to these channels, they do it for me, Scishow is better than most, they tend to do more and go the extra mile.

The cause in my opinion based on my evolutionary psychology knowledge is probably just 2 different evolutionary strategies. One that uses impulsivity, crime, short term focused. And one that uses conscientiousness, social conformity and long term focused.

The short term strategy stopped working around 50-100 years ago in the western world, with better technology, dna evidence, cameras etc. But before then it worked very well, you could commit crime with very little risk and get ahead that way.

What we are seeing now are the effects of the inability of this strategy to adapt and work in our modern environment. Most of the socioeconomical problems our society is going to face this century will probably be related to it imo.

Yea.. conscientiousness is helpful in a stable society. But if everything went to shit and the economy collapsed, impulsive people actually have the advantage. Let's say you spent your whole life saving money, then one day the economy just went to shit (like what happened in Germany) then all those years you went toiling away for the future just went up in flames. That's much of the reason the Germans were so bitter after WW1. You have a few million dollars saved, now the economy is such that you can barely live. So conscientiousness is only beneficial when there's stability.

I don't know that conscientiousness even really existed prior to agriculture and the industrial revolution. Like, we don't see that behavior much in other animals aside from maybe squirrels. The fact that we can refrigerate food, save money, etc makes it 'living for a better tomorrow' makes sense. In a hunter/gather society I can't see how that behavior would be beneficial. I think it may be a very very recent evolutionary adaptation.

And it could be that we all have the ability to be conscientious, but those who grew up in an unstable environment never 'turned on that switch' while those who grew up in an upper middle class home learned (through operant conditioning) that that's a good way to live. That could explain the discrepancies in the studies. Like... It could be that people who grew up impoverished areas simply learned that being conscientious isn't adaptive for them. For instance if you grew up in a rough ghetto where stability isn't guaranteed. Or If you grew up in Africa and toiled away for tomorrow and stored all your money in a mattress you'd likely just have some crook break in and steal your life's work. Places like those, conscientiousness probably isn't that great of a strategy. But conscientious people do well with structure.

Conscientiousness seems to have a lot to do with the Prefrontal cortex, which is the most recent addition to our brains, and is more highly developed in humans than any other animal. That's part of the reason I suspect this behavior is pretty new evolutionarily.

 

[daivey]

You definitely need to learn statistics. But you're 16, so you have an excuse.

Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

lol 16 year olds going to teach people about math, science, psychology now too. Man how these forums have fallen.

 

[GatsbyMag]

I barely read this thread, all I saw was the title and I shook my head.

Why is the thread even this long?

Success can't be inherited. Regardless if you're born 6ft 7, with a high IQ or gorgeous face, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is this - how can you apply yourself to this world in the most effective way possible?

It's all within the execution, which is completely under your control.

I'm very disappointed that this article/BS was shared on this forum. Stop wasting time and make money, broke boys.

 

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[ChrisV]

I made a mistake. I understand the fallacy of my argument, it just didn't occur to me when I wrote it. I think I should make an edit saying I got it or I'll get more replies regarding this.

It's fine.

 

[Roli]

See, this is why I leave this forum for months on end. It's not everyone, but a good 20% who can't even read between the lines and understand the point. And this, right here... is the danger of denouncing formal education.

I don't like spelling things out, because it's generally insulting to your audience. When you write (or post) something, you should assume that your audience has the intelligence enough to read between the lines, and to be fair, most here have so far. But apparently I'm going to have to spell it out, since the other 20% of you can't figure out.

IT'S NOT CHILDHOOD IMPULSIVITY THAT MKES YOU POOR, IT'S YOUR IMPULSIVITY NOW. If you were impulsive as a child, you're likely impulsive as an adult.

This guy just 'read the title.'





See this guy? This guy gets it. @GatsbyMag, be more like @Tourmaline. @Sadik be more like @Fassina

F*ck. Sometimes I feel like this forum isn't good for my blood pressure. I'm gonna need another vacation.

Lolz, calm down @ChrisV, get that BP down to normal

I think the reason you get so much push back on these posts, is because people here are so mired in the no excuses, it's all down to me culture, that they see anything like this as an attack on it.

Unfortunately they confuse somebody who whines about life not being fair, with someone like yourself who points out very valid psychological and personality traits that go into making a human being. I haven't even watched the video yet, just read some of the replies and backs and forths on the thread. However I'm sure the research is bonafide...

Anyway, people don't like being told there are things that happen that are beyond our control, or that certain personality traits lean towards certain actions. However the evidence of such surrounds us every day. Would Shaq have been an NBA star player if he was 5'6" and weighed 140 pounds? Maybe, but probably not, as his small stature would have worked directly against him.

Of course you will always see a Spud Webb in the NBA, somebody who isn't over 6'6" and still manages to be great, however it's not the norm and the number one thing you need to be a great basketball player is height, which of course totally beyond your control.

Another example of this is the marshmallow experiment, whereby children who managed to delay gratification by waiting for a bigger reward (more marshmallows) at the expense of instant gratification (they got to eat the marshmallow immediately), did better in adult life than the ones who ate the sweet straight away.

Now of cause there are various correlation/causation questions to ask here, like what was the socioeconomic spread of the children. However as far as I can work out, the experiment(s) took that into account.

Anyway, thanks for the video, keep posting that stuff you seem to have a knack for discovering it.

 

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[Roli]

I wonder if with some ingenuity a short guy actually could make it in the NBA

I mentioned Spud Webb (showing my age), he was 5'8" and was an NBA star. There is also some guy called Mugsy Bogues I think. He's also under 5'9".

So it can be done, as you allude to, being short on a court full of giants can actually be an advantage. However being tall will automatically start you off with one of the best traits to have as a baller. Of course you need athleticism, hand-eye coordination, speed and a bunch of other attributes. The point is in the NBA being tall with all of these will get you further than being short....


Looking forward to your compulsion post.

Oh and thanks for the heads up on the adjusted marshmallow experiment. Like you say, it's to be expected, however it shows that the effect is still there.

 

[GatsbyMag]

Hey guys,

I still didn't read the thread - I saw some guy make an angry reply to my message, something about meditating and some BS.

Definitely broke.

Meditation, reading books, listening to podcasts -- mostly action fakes

If you had to read another entrepreneurship book after MJ DeMarco's first publication, you're just procrastinating.

The only education is doing. Sorry to break it to you folks.

Also, notice the length of time it took me to follow-up on this thread? Lesson in there - and I'm probably the youngest member of this forum too - ouch.

 

[luniac]

if David Goggins found a way despite severe child abuse and developmental problems, almost anyone can do it too.

 

[Brian Suh]

From MSN.com




Full article: This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult

Anyone have a tldr? Didnt want to read the whole thing.

 

[ChrisV]

I think those articles are bullshit too. I can’t focus for shit. At least on schoolwork back when I was in school. There are no rules. Just a bunch of people thinking there’s a formula they need to follow to be successful. Rules are broken and exceptions are made every day of people becoming successful in spite of traditional advice.

There are always going to be outliers, but there are trends and generalizations that are useful to follow. The outliers usually have something else that helps them. Your typical inattentive person isn't going to succeed in life.