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This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult

ChrisV

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From MSN.com

If you want your kid to grow up to be financially successful, a new study published in the journal JAMA Psychiatry says you should pay close attention to how they behave early on in life, particularly if they have trouble focusing.

Researchers at the University of Montreal examined the link between the behavior of 2,850 Canadian kindergarteners in the 1980s and the salaries they made once they were in their 30s. The researchers looked at personality traits such as attention span, hyperactivity, physical aggression, obedience, anxiety, and sympathy levels—and they found that several factors influenced their annual earnings later on in life.

Among both boys and girls, the personality trait that was linked with making less money as adults was inattention, i.e. the inability to focus on tasks and the tendency to get easily distracted.

Full article: This childhood personality trait influences how much money you'll make as an adult
 

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Sadik

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daivey

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Typical sidewalk mindset. "Some factor outside of you or outside of your control is responsible!"

No silly, it's YOU all the way. Take ownership, get your shit together, make a plan, work your a$$ off, pivot when necessary and keep at it! Money will magically appear!

P.S. I meant "you" in a general sense, not anyone in particular.
This is probably the stupidest post I've read on these forums from a nobody that thinks they are a somebody, that has zero clue about anything.
 

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Typical sidewalk mindset. "Some factor outside of you or outside of your control is responsible!"

No silly, it's YOU all the way. Take ownership, get your shit together, make a plan, work your a$$ off, pivot when necessary and keep at it! Money will magically appear!

P.S. I meant "you" in a general sense, not anyone in particular.
I think the article stated it was you. Not any factor outside of your control.
 

Sadik

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I think the article stated it was you. Not any factor outside of your control.
Ah I think I should not write short posts. I meant what was in the past is no longer in our control. Someone may have had poor attention span thirty years ago. That doesn't define him today. If I continue to believe that because my Kindergarten teacher thought I have poor attention span thirty years ago hence I cannot make money, I am relinquishing control, blaming something which I can no longer change (my past history).

This seems to me just one more limiting belief. Yes, of course many people struggle with mental health issues and they are obviously exceptions to this rule, but generally isn't it best to evaluate your current situation, take ownership and commit to improving yourself and work hard instead of believing that your childhood behavior has doomed you for life?
 

Sadik

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This is probably the stupidest post I've read on these forums from a nobody that thinks they are a somebody, that has zero clue about anything.
Wow what did I say that riled you up so much? You need not agree with me. You can definitely argue what I said but why the personal attack?

I am assuming you do not know me personally or anything about me so how do you conclude whether I am a "nobody" or "somebody".
 
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Tourmaline

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Can't focus, anti-social, domineering?

Yup I suppose that'd lead to less money potential.

"social science" is still hilarious. How much did they spend confirming what is already known? lmao

@Sadik You're getting flak cause you came off a little aggressive. nbd.
 

A_Random_Guy

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Typical sidewalk mindset. "Some factor outside of you or outside of your control is responsible!"

No silly, it's YOU all the way. Take ownership, get your shit together, make a plan, work your a$$ off, pivot when necessary and keep at it! Money will magically appear!

P.S. I meant "you" in a general sense, not anyone in particular.
Although I don't agree that antisocial kids will grow up to be unsuccessful, the rest was accurate.
Most of my friends were shy but grew up to be extrovert in high school.
In my opinion, you are correct. The information you feed your child will change the person he becomes.
One of my friends had the habit of showing off his stuff to others. This led him to beg his parents for money every time some new fad took over the internet. As he grew up, his demands got more bothersome. However, his parents kept spoiling him with no discretion. He failed in High School. He demanded his parents to get him enrolled in a private institution with lots of money flowing under the table during admission. Now he is on drugs. His parents are retired and on the verge of being broke. Now they complain that their child grew up to be someone they had never anticipated. It was completely their fault.

The same goes for my case. I was always lazy even as a kid. I'd oversleep even on the day of an exam. First, my dad tried to wake me up early, but eventually, he didn't bother. I never understood the importance of waking up early. After graduating from High School, my sleep schedule got completely messed up. I used to wake up at 4 PM, go to sleep at 11 AM and that took a heavy toll on my body. I missed college most of the time. It took me a year to get back in track. Now, I have a fixed time for waking up at 7:30 AM no matter what I do. Had he made me accustomed to waking up early, I wouldn't have to fail in my first year to realize the importance of waking up.

I agree that it totally depends on the conscience of the child to do what is best for him, but sometimes habits can overcome the maturity mentality barrier. Make it their habit and they will subconsciously do it without having to make a mistake and realizing it later. Dem, I went off-topic I guess.
 

broswoodwork

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Attention is outside of your control? interesting.
For some kids, developmental psychologists and pediatricians believe so.
I think it's all a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Everyone can keep their attention fixed on something; maybe just not what the facilitators of the SCRIPT would like at any given time.
I tend to suspect this study is tied very closely to ones attention in factory style public education, and it's inferred future impact on your earning capacity in the cubicle 15 years later. I like to think that doesn't apply to most of us here.

What do I know..?
 

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ChrisV

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For some kids, developmental psychologists and pediatricians believe so.
I think it's all a bit of a misnomer, to be honest. Everyone can keep their attention fixed on something; maybe just not what the facilitators of the SCRIPT would like at any given time.
I tend to suspect this study is tied very closely to ones attention in factory style public education, and it's inferred future impact on your earning capacity in the cubicle 15 years later. I like to think that doesn't apply to most of us here.

What do I know..?
Attention is largely out of your control, but there are treatments that you can seek. As someone with pretty serious ADHD who has become reasonable successful, I can tell you without question that that was my biggest barrier to success. Your brain doesn't know which tasks are most important to get you where you need to go. Improving Attention (generally with treatments like medication or Neurofeedback) is literally the best thing you can do for success. That and understanding the general structure of capitalism, like MJ talks about in his books.
 

broswoodwork

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Attention is largely out of your control, but there are treatments that you can seek. As someone with pretty serious ADHD who has become reasonable successful, I can tell you without question that that was my biggest barrier to success. Your brain doesn't know which tasks are most important to get you where you need to go. Improving Attention (generally with treatments like medication or Neurofeedback) is literally the best thing you can do for success. That and understanding the general structure of capitalism, like MJ talks about in his books.
As someone who's been on those medications myself, I've grown to believe the meds are intended to bring me over to their world, but as an adult, I've shifted gears, and started just bringing my world over to them. Less friction and helps keep me focus, so to speak, on providing my style of unique value.
 

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Focus and attention are both entirely within your control, albeit attention more indirectly.

You want to improve focus? Practice. It takes effort. Start working and keep going when you feel like doing something else.

As for attention, MJ covered it in Unscripted when he talked about RAS.

This study is great. It points out that you won't be successful if you can't pay attention or stay focused. That's it, that's all.
 
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broswoodwork

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@Sadik just offered his take on an article that was dropped here with no context or analysis by the op.

Given the source/ mainstream perception of where income comes from (5 days; on 2 days off), and what it should be spent on (leveraged to the max on a mcmansion and this year's Lexus suv), most of us here should say half -heartedly "oh... that's interesting" and move along anyways, so I'm not sure why his post has drawn personal attack and microscopic level scrutiny.

This place can be a bit of a lion's den over the silliest shit. Wonder if the Inside is better or worse..?
 

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the global structure is more important than personnality trait

people are like pawns on a chess board and they think that they are smarter than the rules of the games

the rules are fixed . we can't jump like knights if we are pawns

we can't behave like queens if we are rooks

and no piece can change the rules of chess. they have to submit to the system unless you start a revolution or kick the wrong guy out of office

in a socialist country, this is more difficult to become a bilionaire than in the USA because of taxes laws and so on

so the illusion on control is a real cognitive bias .

almost everybody falls in the trap






quotation :

"The illusion of control is the tendency for people to overestimate their ability to control events; for example, it occurs when someone feels a sense of control over outcomes that they demonstrably do not influence "


you guys are these pawns that think they have absolute control over their lives



..
 

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Sadik

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Not sure where the article stated that.
No it did not say that.

@Sadik just offered his take on an article that was dropped here with no context or analysis by the op.

Given the source/ mainstream perception of where income comes from (5 days; on 2 days off), and what it should be spent on (leveraged to the max on a mcmansion and this year's Lexus suv), most of us here should say half -heartedly "oh... that's interesting" and move along anyways, so I'm not sure why his post has drawn personal attack and microscopic level scrutiny.

This place can be a bit of a lion's den over the silliest shit. Wonder if the Inside is better or worse..?
Thanks man.

Hmmm, ok so I went and re-read the article to allow for the possibility that perhaps I misread the article or maybe my initial impression about it could be wrong.

I could have been more subtle in my original post, but I stand by what I said. Let me explain in a more lucid manner than the short post earlier,

The article says that researchers examined kindergarten behavior in 1980s with the incomes earned now and found that kids who had inattention earned less.

This is actually obvious as another poster said in this thread. If you can't focus, how will you make more money. However the article goes on to say,

The researchers believe that parents and teachers should be especially mindful of these traits in children if they want them to grow up to be successful adults when it comes to finances.
The statement above seems harmless but here is what it implies in my opinion. Let's say you are not successful right now. This gives you one more excuse that instead of your choices right now (Buying a car you can't afford, or living in a city which is too expensive, or playing video games or watching TV 20 hours a week etc etc) aren't really the cause of your poor net worth. It is the fact that you had attention issues in Kindergarten!

I have some friends who are very overweight. They do not watch what they eat and don't exercise, but if you were to suggest to them to workout, they say "Oh I have bad genes" or "It's in my family". So finding something else to blame instead of not taking action in the present is what I see as typical sidewalk mindset.

The past is out of your control. You cannot do anything about what happened when you were small. But being an Entrepreneur means you have to believe that you can change things.

In any case, you are free to disagree. I really wouldn't have spent this much time on this thread but for the thought that perhaps I may have made a mistake so I revisited it. I was really disappointed with the one poster's personal attack though and I will be cutting my time here for a few days at least.
 

ExaltedLife

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the global structure is more important than personnality trait

people are like pawns on a chess board and they think that they are smarter than the rules of the games

the rules are fixed . we can't jump like knights if we are pawns

we can't behave like queens if we are rooks

and no piece can change the rules of chess. they have to submit to the system unless you start a revolution or kick the wrong guy out of office

in a socialist country, this is more difficult to become a bilionaire than in the USA because of taxes laws and so on

so the illusion on control is a real cognitive bias .

almost everybody falls in the trap






quotation :

"The illusion of control is the tendency for people to overestimate their ability to control events; for example, it occurs when someone feels a sense of control over outcomes that they demonstrably do not influence "


you guys are these pawns that think they have absolute control over their lives



..
Hahahaha...you fool.

If you really think that's true...then why are you even here?
 
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PizzaOnTheRoof

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I don’t think anyone that struggles to focus needs to be told how it affects your life and chances of success.

They know who they are.

The question is how do we change it?

25254

This place can be a bit of a lion's den over the silliest shit. Wonder if the Inside is better or worse..?
It is better, though much quieter.
 

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I wasn't good at focusing when I was a kid.... (oh look, a squirrel) ......and I'm even worse at it today. If you was in front of me talking about something..... 2 seconds later, I would not be able to tell you what was said. When I need to talk to someone about household business I make sure my wife is there so I can ask her questions later and when I talk business, business, I make sure my long time business partner is there.
 
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ChrisV

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I don’t think anyone that struggles to focus needs to be told how it affects your life and chances of success.

They know who they are.

The question is how do we change it?

View attachment 25254


It is better, though much quieter.
This is a good point, although I don't know that they realize the extent to which it's detrimental. For me, I didnt put two and two together until I was well into my 20's. And once I resolved the attention thing, my results skyrocketed.

How is another question. Off the top of my head.. Neurofeedback, medication, meditation and I'll think of more.
 

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@PizzaOnTheRoof @ChrisV If you truly want to improve your focus skill, your concentration skill, then get good at meditating.

Focusing is a skill. We born sucking a$$ at it. However, most people that believe they are not good at focusing are still excellent at focusing on some things. Which goes to say a thing or two. Meditation is the most straightforward way to improve the skill. How is very simple. First meditate for 1 min. Then 2 min. Then 5 min. Then 10 min. Then continue to double it until you are at 120 min. Keep going if you want, but I find 2 hours of meditation good enough for nearly anything you want to do, and well once you can do that there's a lot of fun to be had there too.

@guy93777 I do not think most believe they have absolute control. Rather there are many things that are in our control.
 

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Did they control for family income level and situation? These studies generally don't so what ends up happening is that they find that kids of well off people with good upbringing tend to make more money later in life. And that's no surprise for anyone.

An example of this is that marshmallow study where self control was supposedly measured, when they control for income level, parents education level, and family situation the effect goes away.

Nobody was ever able to accurately replicate that study where kids that resisted 1 marshmallow now got 2 later made more money, it's just hey if you were raised well guess what you'll probably do well. This sounds like a similar situation.
 
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ChrisV

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Did they control for family income level and situation? These studies generally don't so what ends up happening is that they find that kids of well off people with good upbringing tend to make more money later in life. And that's no surprise for anyone.

An example of this is that marshmallow study where self control was supposedly measured, when they control for income level, parents education level, and family situation the effect goes away.

Nobody was ever able to accurately replicate that study where kids that resisted 1 marshmallow now got 2 later made more money, it's just hey if you were raised well guess what you'll probably do well. This sounds like a similar situation.
I've followed the Marshmallow study very closely, and I have never ever heard of the effect disappearing once you control for other factors. Impulsivity is literally one of the most studied phenomena in psychology and study after study corroborates the idea that impulsivity is absolutely detrimental to almost all aspects of life success. And I'm being serious, there are literally hundreds, but more like thousands of studies corroborating this. Its one of the most studied things in all of the social sciences. If you don't have self control, you're F*cked.
 
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Fassina

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I've followed the Marshmallow study very closely, and I have never ever heard of the effect disappearing once you control for other factors. Impulsivity is literally one of the most studied phenomena in psychology and study after study corroborates the idea that impulsivity is absolutely detrimental to almost all aspects of life success. And I'm being serious, there are literally hundreds, but more like thousands of studies corroborating this. Its one of the most studied things in all of the social sciences. If you don't have self control, you're F*cked.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLcFCs7_ZKA

It's just wrong, yet pretty much every non fiction book references it for some reason..

You are also taking averages too seriously, some traits certainly do improve income level for average office john, it doesn't mean these traits are as beneficial to outliers like us.. Being good at following orders for instance might make you a better employee, but it certainly doesn't make you a better entrepreneur.
 
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ChrisV

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLcFCs7_ZKA

It's just wrong, yet pretty much every non fiction book references it for some reason..

You are also taking averages too seriously, some traits certainly do improve income level for average office john, it doesn't mean these traits are as beneficial to outliers like us.. Being good at following orders for instance might make you a better employee, but it certainly doesn't make you a better entrepreneur.
Listen, I'm not going to go back and forth. I'm a professional statistician and most of my work is in the Social Sciences. These Science YouTube videos have to simply everything because they're for a lay audience. There's a personality trait called Conscientiousness, which is the polar opposite of Impulsivity.

Conscientiousness is the personality trait of being careful, or diligent. Conscientiousness implies a desire to do a task well, and to take obligations to others seriously. Conscientious people tend to be efficient and organized as opposed to easy-going and disorderly. They exhibit a tendency to show self-discipline, act dutifully, and aim for achievement; they display planned rather than spontaneous behavior; and they are generally dependable.
Conscientiousness is literally the best statistical predictor we have of life success. It correlates to income at the .4 level. It correlates to grades at the .5 level. These numbers are astronomical in psychology. Almost nothing correlates that high. Conscientiousness is literally a better predictor of success than IQ.

No matter what you can possibly say about the Marshmallow Experiment, again, there are literally hundreds or thousands of studies corroborating this effect. the Marshmallow Experiment was one highly publicized of thousands.


They're going to have to do better than purporting methodological flaws in one study to take down an entire field of research.

Again, Impulsivity is one of the most studied phenomena there is in the sciences. Who cares about Marshmallows. There's mountains and mountains of data supporting this. Criminals are more impulsive, fat people are more impulsive, poor people are more impulsive, drug addicts are more impulsive. We know this for an absolute fact. And some silly study about Marshmallows is not the only thing we go off with this.
 

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Why would someone waste time giving this energy? It's in the past, and they can't control it. Waste of time, Unnecessary evaluation.
 

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Listen, I'm not going to go back and forth. I'm a professional statistician and most of my work is in the Social Sciences. These Science YouTube videos have to simply everything because they're for a lay audience. There's a personality trait called Conscientiousness, which is the polar opposite of Impulsivity.



Conscientiousness is literally the best statistical predictor we have of life success. It correlates to income at the .4 level. It correlates to grades at the .5 level. These numbers are astronomical in psychology. Almost nothing correlates that high. Conscientiousness is literally a better predictor of success than IQ.

No matter what you can possibly say about the Marshmallow Experiment, again, there are literally hundreds or thousands of studies corroborating this effect. the Marshmallow Experiment was one highly publicized of thousands.


They're going to have to do better than purporting methodological flaws in one study to take down an entire field of research.

Again, Impulsivity is one of the most studied phenomena there is in the sciences. Who cares about Marshmallows. There's mountains and mountains of data supporting this. Criminals are more impulsive, fat people are more impulsive, poor people are more impulsive, drug addicts are more impulsive. We know this for an absolute fact. And some silly study about Marshmallows is not the only thing we go off with this.
Dude I'm asking if in this study they accounted for an important factor to determine it's accuracy, and giving an example of one where they didn't to give the question merit.

I'm not arguing against the big five. I know about it, I'm also well versed in statistics and p values, statistical significance, bayes theorem end all. My point is not to argue against academically accepted concepts based on one flawed study.

I was trying to determine if this study deserves any attention, because you used a click baity title. Calm down, I'm not your enemy..
 

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