Suing my former employer....

[hakrjak]

[Apologies in advance for the long post... I've been through hell the past 3 weeks, and have condensed the story down as much as possible...]

I have to make an important decision soon regarding whether or not I'm going to sue my former employer. I need some advice from those who know about this stuff, or who have been there before.

Here's the circumstances: I was given an annual review that I didn't think was fair, and the fact that I was ranked quite low caused me to miss getting a raise, bonus, etc. I escalated a complaint up the chain of command and utilized the company's "open door policy" to request that this ranking be appealed. Several directors got involved, and ended up telling me (Without ever listening to my argument) that there was nothing they could do. They all assured me this wasn't a big deal and someone had to get the low ranking this year (Bell curve), and it was me... But this wouldn't impact my career at the company at all, etc...

I went on vacation for 10 days, and when I got back I was given a layoff notice that I would be gone in 4 weeks. The notice said I would be allowed to find and take another job in the company, and that my low ranking would not impact my ability to take another position.

Flash forward 3 weeks. I found 2 hiring managers inside the company who both offered me the job verbally. Once they began working with HR to have me moved over to their team a week+ went by and then I would be contacted by both apologizing that they would not be allowed to hire me for the position (No further details given).

I escalated my case to HR, explaining that this was unfair that I had been offered 2 great positions and then had to endure the heartbreak of having them pulled out from under my nose, right before the deadline to leave. HR finally divulged to me that they believed my paperwork was being cancelled at the last minute by an executive for the 2 organizations I had applied to because they don't want to hire anybody with a ranking as low as mine (Even though my former manager gave me a positive reference, and told them my ranking and layoff was not merit based)...

So this brings me to now... I'm concerned that I'm the victim of some majorly hostile retalliation that has sprouted from the complaint I made about my ranking on the annual review. I'm wondering if one of the directors who got involved has basicaly blacklisted me throughout the company now. I feel that even though I was told, and it was documented that I would have the opportunity to apply and be hired inside the company -- this is a clear lie and breach of company policy.

Can anybody shed some light on what my rights are here, and whether or not I should take legal action? I have an appointment with an attorney in 2 weeks, but I want to get the dialogue going here in the meantime.

I won't be burning any bridges, because thanks to our new layoff policy -- No employee can ever be rehired with the company once they've been laid off unless they get an executive council member to sign off. Obviously this is not going to happen for anybody who is not the brother-in-law of an exec.

Thanks all...

[Also if you know me personally, please keep this confidential and don't post anything about it on my Facebook, Linkedin, etc... Trying to keep this on the DL until I decide what to do]

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Neon]

Corporate politics...just move on and realize that this is why you don't ever want a job like that again.

Sometimes it's more important to be happy than to be right.

Read above again, twice.

Years ago my wife was looking at suing her employer for sexual discrimination. She had a good case with documentation. We went to a couple lawyers who were hot to take the case (it was against a big company). Went to a final lawyer who said, "look- you're in the right here and I'd be interested in the case." "But I have to be honest, you'd be better off moving on and investing all this energy in your own life." "I've done a lot of these cases and they are brutal, it will drag on for years and they will try to humiliate you in court and generally make your life hell." "In the end you're a young attractive woman and it's going to be hard to convince a jury you deserve damages even if they side with you."

"So you're RIGHT...but sometimes you can win and still lose, see what I'm saying?"

Smart dude.

We dropped the case and the individuals involved were fired from the company later on anyway. My wife ended up suffering major health issues later that year that would have made the suit impossible regardless. I started my company and she helped me build it.

So...is it REALLY worth the possible years of struggle for what amounts to corporate politics?

The best thing to do would be to consult an attorney who will tell you whether or not you even have a case. In their words, "if it isn't in writing it didn't happen" will play out for sure.

Of course, this is probably an oversimplification of things but a lawyer is really the only one who can determine whether this is worth pursuing (hint, if you're paying- it's worth it!).

Chances are you'd have to prove lost wages which means extensive documentation that you tried to get a comparable position with other companies and were unable to. SO...you're going to have to go out and look for another job anyway to prove your case so it might be a good idea just to move on.

/nonlawyer

 

[JEdwards]

Not worth the headache.. Move on. Don't look back.


More importantly, do not let yourself get into that position again.

 

[Anon3587x]

I escalated my case to HR, explaining that this was unfair that I had been offered 2 great positions and then had to endure the heartbreak of having them pulled out from under my nose, right before the deadline to leave.

Success is the best revenge.

Start a similar business and take their clients. Make them feel like
it isn't fair.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Flatlander]

As others have said, move on. You could milk unemployment for a while and in the meantime try to get something of your own going.

BTW, I used to work for a big company and any tiny little black mark on your record meant that you would *never* move up no matter what.

 

[NHS]

As others have said, move on. You could milk unemployment for a while and in the meantime try to get something of your own going.

BTW, I used to work for a big company and any tiny little black mark on your record meant that you would *never* move up no matter what.

Sounds like a perfect plan to me. Use this time to get your own thing going and enjoy life. This is a blessing!

 

[hakrjak]

Am definitely considering starting a competing company and taking away business from them, but that's a seperate issue.

In the meantime if we're talking about several million dollars (And attorneys taking 1/3rd for the case) -- Why not invest the time and let the ambulance chasers do the heavy lifting while I chill and collect unemployment?

I see the merit in just moving on and putting it behind me, but if it's a minimal effort thing, and they have a good chance of coming through with a 7 figure settlement -- why not go for it? Sounds pretty fastlane to me

- Hakrjak

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[bflbob]

Hakr:

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.

If someone has to be the low man in the group -- it is usually the low man. Falling to the bottom in what sounds like a large company doesn't usually happen to employees who are valuable to the company. I'm not saying you are worthless or stupid, or anything like that. But something doesn't ring true here.

I think it was Jack Welch who implemented a 10% rule at GE. Basically, the bottom 10% in every department was let go every year. At first, it was easy to find them. But as time went on, that bottom 10% kept growing in skills and experience.

It sounds to me like this may be the rule in your case. You are a good employee -- but you are the worst employee. Challenging them may not have been your best answer. From an employer's point of view, "What steps can I take to make sure I do better next year?" sounds better than "I deserve a raise. I'll be discussing this with the directors." does. (I'm not sure it went this way, but...)

I'm with the rest of the group. Let it go. Go do what you love, not what you hate. Excel at it. But don't worry about taking your past employer's customers. If your company is great, they'll come over on their own. If not, you never deserved them.

 

[GlobalWealth]

coming through with a 7 figure settlement

Unless you are a c-level exec, you will never see a 7 figure settlement. Ever. Period.

In order to get that type of settlement, you have to have that amount of damages. Even if you earn a $100k/year, that is 7 years worth of lost income. There is no way you can prove you will lose 7 years of income.

Move on. Get over it. You only live once, do you really want to spend years of your life fighting this battle?

You certainly cannot outspend your company's legal department.

From a trader's perspective, this is the equivalent of cutting your losses early. You are talking about making the biggest of trader's mistakes, riding out your loss.

Another thing to consider - do you really want to create 'wealth through litigation'?

This is the game that losers play. Successful people create something of value and capitalize on it. Losers want to win without working.

That involves suing people/companies for perceived wrongdoing and buying lottery tickets. Do you want to be that guy?

I'm not saying you weren't a victim here, although I tend to side with Bob in his assessment. But just because you were a victim, doesn't mean the fight is worth fighting.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Sometimes it's more important to be happy than to be right.

Speed +++

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[CommonCents]

Feel free to get your consultation. I'd only consider it if an attorney would take it on contingency which sounds unlikely.

You'll find out the justice system doesn't deliver a heckuva lot of justice. I challenged a company I sold my company to over a non compete, won summary judgement and lost in a clear cut winner for me as there was no consideration ever paid for my non-compete. Judge's rationale? I made enough money. And this was against a fortune 200. No joke. Appeal? nah, spend a few more grand to try and convince another judge to overturn their colleague. Fat chance.

 

[max momo]

Unless you have presented your case here, intentionally, in the worst possible light – I can’t imagine anyone will take your case.

The advice to move on and succeed on your own accord is the best.

However, there are certain types of people (I don’t know if you are one or not) that would be bothered for years by a sense of injustice or improper treatment.

As others said, success is the best revenge.

I’ll add – success tastes even better served with a cold dessert. Bake your own dessert. You can , without a doubt, cause the company to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars through your efforts to win over customers, disrupt their revenue model, and cause bad press. Stay focused and you can cost them clients, jobs, word of mouth = all equal revenue.

A legal case is for fools. Make them pay you to stop your offensive against them.

You see public examples of this all the time. A consumer complaint on “Channel 4 on your side” gets results. And this is always over trinkets and pennies.

Think of the results your focused campaign could yield.

Again, better to build your own business, but you can have some fun – and maybe earn a few dollars – at their expense.

Some folks fight traffic tickets. But, you’ve heard the saying ‘you can’t fight city hall’.

True. But you CAN cost them $2,000 in administrative fees to collect on a $100 ticket….

 

[Rickson9]

I can't add much that hasn't already been said.

Seek a lawyer on contingency and see if they will take your case. I'm no expert but unless you were making huge sums in salary, the amount will be minimal if anything. I didn't read of any serious wrongdoing or documentation. If you don't have documentation against them, you can be sure that they have documentation against you.

I have been involved in extracting payment from big companies - one through a lawsuit/settlement and the other through threat of a lawsuit. In both cases, I had documentation of wrongdoing - date stamped emails, letters, and any other forms of correspondence.

If I tried to build a case "after the fact" (ie. after getting let go) the odds of being successful drop significantly. A case has to be built as events are unfolding.

Also, there is no such thing as an "open door policy". If I ever used the "open door" I would make very sure that I had all communication documented and kept in my records with who said what and when.

No phone messages or face-to-face talks. All email. Printable. Hard copy. If I had a conversation, I would summarize and send out an email afterward and seek confirmation. Again. All hard copied. Even no response is a response. Date stamped. It's all important. The party with the most documentation supporting their case wins.

Best regards.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kung Fu Steve]

I've posted this before. Always a good reminder.

[video=youtube;JfA-qNWLBHo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA-qNWLBHo[/video]

"Someone says 'I'll go on strike for more' ... well... here's the problem with that... you can't get rich by demand!!"

"Somebody says 'I'm waiting for a raise!' ... I'm telling you it's easier to climb then to wait for a raise. Why not just become more valuable then wait for a raise?"


My friend... you have fallen into a terrible mindset. With that terrible mindset comes bad beliefs and a bad attitude. You are a smart investor! Why is it you still cling desperately to a job where they don't like you? Or a job that you even have to complain in the first place??

I realize the family has to be fed. The mortgage has to be paid. But you are better than this.

My advice? Put down in your calender a date that just says "Become Financially Independent." Or even "Quit my miserable job."

Life is too short. Quit bitchin' about people that don't matter and just move on to living an extraordinary life.

Good luck brother. Keep us informed.

 

[Jill]

Hak ~

After spending the last 14 years in and around HR departments as an HR Software/Business analyst, I would heartily recommend that you drop it and move on. I know it's hard to just let it go, if you feel you've been wronged. But consider the time, emotional and energy costs.

Unless you have proof - such as an email - that you were "black-balled" by an existing manager, you really don't have anything but your word against theirs. If they DID smell any such legal action, the emails would already be purged from the server, long before they could be subpoenaed. Even if they DID provide such emails, the contents would have to present fallacious information about you or your work quality in order to prove that you were unfairly treated. If they merely said, "As a reminder, Hak was let go because he was at the bottom of the curve this year" (or whatever), then this would be merely a statement of fact - not libel, IMO.

I'm not a legal expert on employment matters. But I've seen a lot of dirt. While it is still somewhat controversial (and has consequentially spent some time in the courtroom) the data field entitled, "Eligible for Rehire" has been deemed in most cases to be perfectly legal. I would say this would be especially true in your case if the company has publically stated this as company policy. If your "layoff" was the result of performance, rather than "Reduction In Force" then this would definitely be the case.

Not worth your time. Not worth your energy. Move on. You don't really want to spend the next year in court with people you don't like, do you? That would be a major energy suck. Get excited about your next project. Go head-to-head with Goliath, and get your reward from that.

 

[NHS]

My friend... you have fallen into a terrible mindset. With that terrible mindset comes bad beliefs and a bad attitude. You are a smart investor! Why is it you still cling desperately to a job where they don't like you? Or a job that you even have to complain in the first place??

I was gonna say NOTHING about the original posters comments so far scream Fastlane to me. Everything is slow lane.

I still keep my day job. Mainly because they would have a hard time replacing me and they pretty much let me come and go and do as I please. I even have my own section in the warehouse and an area to ship my stuff. So instead of renting a space I work a little, get paid, and get to use the space for free for whatever I want. It's a pretty decent deal.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[darkjediii]

You've been a member of this message board for close to 4 years... You've read the book.. Yet everything about your situation screams SLOW LANE.

Why do you think they would rate you at the bottom of the bell curve if you really didn't belong there?


Your boss' opinion is clear. You're at the bottom of the curve for a reason. You might not be a perfect employee but you might be a great entrepreneur. Use this as your wake up call and use the things that you've learned from here to prevent this from happening ever again.

Easier said than done, I know.. But then again that's why the majority of people are vulnerable to these types of slow lane events.


Please don't take my post as any type of disrespect, get motivated :heartbeat:

 

[andviv]

Am definitely considering starting a competing company and taking away business from them

I'd love to hear about this... you know the customers, their needs, you know where the value is, what are the things your former employer was doing right --duplicate them-- and what was missing --add value--... I think that is the right way to go.

What's in your non-compete?

I hope you go after this cause you have all the tools. Good luck either way.

 

[hakrjak]

Hak ~

After spending the last 14 years in and around HR departments as an HR Software/Business analyst, I would heartily recommend that you drop it and move on. I know it's hard to just let it go, if you feel you've been wronged. But consider the time, emotional and energy costs.

Unless you have proof - such as an email - that you were "black-balled" by an existing manager, you really don't have anything but your word against theirs. If they DID smell any such legal action, the emails would already be purged from the server, long before they could be subpoenaed. Even if they DID provide such emails, the contents would have to present fallacious information about you or your work quality in order to prove that you were unfairly treated. If they merely said, "As a reminder, Hak was let go because he was at the bottom of the curve this year" (or whatever), then this would be merely a statement of fact - not libel, IMO.

I'm not a legal expert on employment matters. But I've seen a lot of dirt. While it is still somewhat controversial (and has consequentially spent some time in the courtroom) the data field entitled, "Eligible for Rehire" has been deemed in most cases to be perfectly legal. I would say this would be especially true in your case if the company has publically stated this as company policy. If your "layoff" was the result of performance, rather than "Reduction In Force" then this would definitely be the case.

Not worth your time. Not worth your energy. Move on. You don't really want to spend the next year in court with people you don't like, do you? That would be a major energy suck. Get excited about your next project. Go head-to-head with Goliath, and get your reward from that.

This was the most worthwhile reply I could ask for. Thanks Jill! I appreciate the inside info.

To everybody else who replied with the standard, "That's not fastlane dude...." blah responses, I appreciate the encouragement -- but this thread was really about finding out if anybody had done this before, if I had a case, and how much money we were talking about. I'm sure we can start a new thread to debate whether or not suing someone can be considered fastlane. Personally I think it fits the criteria pretty closely, as long as the return is well over the time invested. To me Fastlane is anything that puts a million dollars into my pocket in 12 months or less, and sadly this didn't turn out to be a worthwhile vehicle based on the advise given here and elsewhere.

As the intro said, I had a decision to make very soon. At this point it looks like my decision is to just let it go and walk on. I may take out my frustration against the company in blogs and via a great "last day on the job" e-mail for sure

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

I'm sure we can start a new thread to debate whether or not suing someone can be considered fastlane.

No it isn't Fastlane, it is 100% Sidewalk.

 

[Bilgefisher]

Hak,

My wife works in HR for a very large HR firm. She gets to do depositions several times a year. Yes, in many cases the company may settle a case rather then go to court. Even if you have no solid facts. Why? It's far more expensive to fight you then to just settle in many cases. There are formulas to determine compensation in wrongful termination. Unless race, gender, sexual orientation, age or any other equal opportunity law is at stake, your projected payout would be very low. Add to the fact that your lawyer will eat much of that up. These things take months and often years to resolve. Plus, Colorado is a right to work state. A company does not need to provide a reason for termination.

Just an outsiders take listening to the HR side of things.

Either way, best of luck getting past this roadblock in your life.