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Stop wasting time finding a need, focus on being GOOD at what you are passionate about.

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MoreValue

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What I have come to learn after analyzing numerous businesses and successful people that are actually happy.

Finding a need doesn’t actually matter. Let me explain. Stop wasting countless hours searching for a need

1) Do we need another..
Clothing brand
Smoothie Shop
Singer
Web Design Agency
Fitness Influencer
Appliance product
Supplement line
Artist
Woodshop
Car brand?

The answer to these questions is always a resounding NO. But, there are success stories day in and day out in these niches?
What gives.

The only thing that matters is being really damn GOOD at what you do.

If you are good, you never have to spend money on ads at all. You organically post in your niche and the market/algorithm spreads it organically. Oh my god mind blowing right? If you are a person that says that this doesn’t work is because you haven’t created anything good enough.


I’m good at what I do, but not making money/traction, why?

A) You aren’t actually good. Stay objective and don’t BS yourself that you are actually good if you aren't. Listen to market.
B) You aren’t posting in the areas where your demographic is
C) Time, even the best take some time to get recognition.

Passion vs. Need Route
I have already explained why finding a need doesn’t matter. Many of you anti-passionate people might bring up examples, of classic passionate ventures, like American Idol singers that failed or video gamers. They failed because they weren’t GOOD. NOT because they followed their passion. This misinterpretation puts passion as the one to blame for failure. These examples are used because they are cliche things to be passionate about. If you can’t make money on what you are passionate about, you most likely suck at it. With global marketplace, the bar in being GOOD is very high now.

Now the need route. So you found something that is needed, but have zero passion in it. Should you pursue it? Absolutely not. Here is why:

1) Somewhere out there, there is a person that is passionate in that need and they will run you over because they have unlimited work energy due to passion.
2) You will eventually give up because you hate it. Passion is what gives you the gas to work non stop.
3) If you aren’t passionate about it then, pretty much your only motivation is money $$$$. We all know how that goes...
4) Kinda the same like #2, you have a limited shot clock for getting it right, your gas tank is limited without passion. Always thinking about cashing out.

How do I know I am doing what I am truly passionate about and not some phase?
Ask yourself, if you had a billion dollar would you still be doing that passionate thing? If not, it ain’t your passion and you doing it as a money-chaser.

Increase your odds of being GOOD at something with passion. Who is going to be the best, someone that likes what they are doing or hates it?

Your Passion chooses you?
So what I realized, is that we don’t really choose our passion. It chooses us based on our life experiences. Maybe it was seeing a successful business man movie as a kid and now you want to be a business man ever since. Although you can be wealthy in nearly anything like I explained, it would be nice to have a true passion in tech/programming.

Trying to help others, because I followed the anti passion crowd, I was a failure and wasted so much time and money due to this bad advice. Now that I follow my passion and actually am good at what I do, I am more successful than ever. I can clearly see myself being a multi millionair
 

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MoreValue

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Forgot to mention the scenario of finding a need, but sucking at it. You ain’t making money either, even if there is a need. It is only about being GOOD. The market will let you know.
 

Black_Dragon43

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1) Somewhere out there, there is a person that is passionate in that need and they will run you over because they have unlimited work energy due to passion.
2) You will eventually give up because you hate it. Passion is what gives you the gas to work non stop.
Interesting post, but I think you got it backwards. It's not passion that makes you good at something, rather it is being good at something that breeds passion.

It's easy to be passionate about tennis if you are naturally talented at it for example. The same with coding, copywriting, etc. Naturally, when you LEARN what your strengths are, you feel good when you work on them and display them. Why? Because it makes you feel powerful and proud of who you are - you are being your authentic self.

Schopenhauer expounds on this at length, just a short quote:
We know our will in general and do not allow ourselves to be misled by mood or external demands into individual decisions that are opposed to it on the whole. We know in just the same way the nature and the measure of our strengths and our weaknesses, and will thereby spare ourselves many pains. For there is really no other enjoyment than that of employing and feeling one’s own forces, and the greatest pain is a perceived lack of forces where one needs them. Having then undertaken an examination as to where our strengths and where our weaknesses lie, we will seek to develop, employ, in every manner to utilize our conspicuous natural dispositions, and always occupy ourselves where these are of use and applicable, but altogether and with self overcoming avoid endeavors for which we have little natural disposition, will guard against attempting that which simply does not work for us. Only someone who has gotten this far will be entirely himself with constancy and complete thoughtful awareness, and will never be left in the lurch by himself, because he would always know what he was able to presume in his own regard. He will then frequently partake of the pleasure of feeling his strengths, and seldom experience the pain of being reminded of his weaknesses. The latter is a humiliation that perhaps causes the greatest spiritual pain…

If we are completely familiar with our strengths and weaknesses, then, we will also not attempt to display forces that we do not have, will not play with counterfeit coin, because that sort of game of mirrors simply misses its target in the end…nothing could be more perverse than, proceeding on the basis of reflection, willing to be something other than one is… Imitating someone else’s qualities and peculiar features is much more deplorable than wearing someone else’s clothes; for it is judgment of one’s own worthlessness pronounced by oneself
 
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MoreValue

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Interesting post, but I think you got it backwards. It's not passion that makes you good at something, rather it is being good at something that breeds passion.


It's easy to be passionate about tennis if you are naturally talented at it for example. The same with coding, copywriting, etc. Naturally, when you LEARN what your strengths are, you feel good when you work on them and display them. Why? Because it makes you feel powerful and proud of who you are - you are being your authentic self.
What I found is that natural talent is rare. Extremely rare. I should have clarified that I was making this to post to regular untalented people.

One of the things I am passionate about is sewing. When I started, obviously I sucked. I practiced and I am now good. I started sewing because I was passionate, but wasn’t good at it.

The thing is that most people suck when they start at anything. But their passion gets them through the barriers and practice.

If you never held a baseball bat, you most likely suck at hitting a baseball. Unless like you stated, natural born talent.

Lol I see it the other way around.
 

MTF

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I don't think it works like that.

I used to make a lot more money from my self-publishing business a few years ago. Back then, my writing skills were much worse than they are now. According to your perspective, I should be making more money now. I am better now at what I do, yet I make 5-6x less money than before.

There are more factors at play than just pure skills.

And yes, I would be still writing even if I had a billion dollars.
 

MattR82

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I'm calling bs on that.

In web design, social media and ppc I've seen some shady a$$ people that suck at their job make a hell of a lot more than some incredibly intelligent, talented and experienced designers, developers and marketers that are scraping by (and actually like what they do).

I know it's a bit different to what you're saying, but to me your statement doesn't sound right.
 

MattR82

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If you are good, you never have to spend money on ads at all. You organically post in your niche and the market/algorithm spreads it organically. Oh my god mind blowing right? If you are a person that says that this doesn’t work is because you haven’t created anything good enough.
Lol. Good luck with that.
 

alexkuzmov

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"How to fail outright" - the thread
or "How to fail the commandment of need"

If there is a need for your passion then thats a happy coincidence.
If there is no need for your passion, then you got yourself a hobby.
Nothing can turn passion into hate and stress faster than losing large amounts of time and money.
 

TommyZ

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"How to fail outright" - the thread
or "How to fail the commandment of need"

If there is a need for your passion then thats a happy coincidence.
If there is no need for your passion, then you got yourself a hobby.
Nothing can turn passion into hate and stress faster than losing large amounts of time and money.
 

scott wisniewsk

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When I got out of high school I really enjoyed working on cars . Mine my friends it was enjoyment for me , I loved it. Then I started working for a car dealer as a mechanic . At first it was good but over time I began to really hate it , turning into a grind .
 

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Tourmaline

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When I got out of high school I really enjoyed working on cars . Mine my friends it was enjoyment for me , I loved it. Then I started working for a car dealer as a mechanic . At first it was good but over time I began to really hate it , turning into a grind .
This is a common experience too. Turning a hobby into work sounds good on paper but in the long run often enough it ruins the hobby! Did that for me with computers in a large way o_O

From what I've understood, part of it is how before when you did the hobby you got internal rewards, and then after it becomes work you start getting external rewards and that supplants the internal rewards.
 

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I was watching a youtube video this weekend about the guys that do world's strongest man competitions. These guys are preparing for a world record challenge deadlift that's something like 1,100 lbs. The prize is 50k.

What does this mean? It means being the only human in the entire world that can pick up 1,100 pounds is worth 50k.

The minimum salary for a rookie in the NBA is 800k. Stephen Curry makes $40M a year. There are 450 players in the NBA. This means that being in the bottom rung of a group of 450 basketball is worth 16 times more than being the number 1 in a group of powerlifters. The number one in the NBA makes 800 times what the world record deadlifter makes, before you take all his endorsement income into account.

Even if you are elite at what you do, what the market needs is still the driver of your income potential.
 

Spicymemer45

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I was watching a youtube video this weekend about the guys that do world's strongest man competitions. These guys are preparing for a world record challenge deadlift that's something like 1,100 lbs. The prize is 50k.

What does this mean? It means being the only human in the entire world that can pick up 1,100 pounds is worth 50k.

The minimum salary for a rookie in the NBA is 800k. Stephen Curry makes $40M a year. There are 450 players in the NBA. This means that being in the bottom rung of a group of 450 basketball is worth 16 times more than being the number 1 in a group of powerlifters. The number one in the NBA makes 800 times what the world record deadlifter makes, before you take all his endorsement income into account.

Even if you are elite at what you do, what the market needs is still the driver of your income potential.
It's all fun and games till that powerlifter decides to eat the entire NBA and take their money.
 

inputchip

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Show me any successful business, and I'll show you the need that they are solving.

My business is in an industry that I have almost zero interest in. I'm completely outside of my target market. You won't believe me, but I have actually never even used my products.

How can I run a successful business then?

I solve people's NEEDS with my products. I am passionate about solving other people's problems. There's a positive feedback loop between my sales, reviews, and changing people's lives for the better, that makes me passionate about what I am doing. I'm passionate about my end-goals, and that's what drives me to do what I do, even though I'm not passionate about my industry.
 

JAJT

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I can't believe we are still having this discussion...

Look, the phrase "follow the market, not your passion" (and the million variations of it) does NOT mean "you have to do what you hate to be successful", nor does it mean "your passion isn't what the market wants".

All it means is that your passion is IRRELEVANT to what the market wants.

That being said, if you happen to be passionate about something the market DOES want - well shit, go nuts! More power to you. Stoke the fires and go kick a$$.

Passion ONLY matters when it correlates with a market need.

Go out onto the street and ask people if they'll pay you $1 to tell them all about how passionate you are about knitting. Nobody will care and nobody will pay you because nobody is paying for your passion.

Now go out onto the street and try to sell $20 knitted winter hats that look amazing on a cold day. You'll probably sell quite a few of them because you've matched your passion (knitting) with a market need (cold ears).

Passion is worthless. Not worth a penny. Nobody cares. UNLESS it matches up with a market need.
 

MMatt

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I feel like this subject is not a "one size fits all" argument.

For some, their passion and hard work leads to massive profit if the market is there. For many others, following their passion can lead to hating what you once loved.

Filling needs is obviously the most predictable path to a successful business.

However, being involved in a sector you are passionate about is not a guarantee to fail granted there is a large market and needs to be filled.
 

CaptainAmerica

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I'm really glad this came up again.

1. we need to have it ground into us that WE serve the MARKET, first and sometimes only.

2. even if it's a circuitous route, connecting HOW we serve that market to our passions makes our services stronger.

I'm not driven especially to solve people's needs; it doesn't satisfy me - I truly don't care. But by giving a certain industry segment better tools, I can fight pollution - and THAT'S what I'm passionate about - we all win. AND my service funds my passion for things like eating, paying the mortgage, and creating a legacy.

But even if I only served a need in the market that funded my lifestyle, I'd still do something else to fight pollution. That connection is a nice-to-have, not a need-to-have.
 

KeithWallace

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Interesting post.

Is this personal speculation, or is there some data or research that you've based this idea on?

I'm not sure the argument holds that if you're really really good at something then success will naturally follow.

I'm sure there are examples of people who are at the top of their game who didn't do any advertising etc, but that doesn't necessarily mean that 'just being really good' was the key to it - that's cherry picking examples from the winners and assuming the cause of their success.

Equally, there are endless people who have extraordinary talent that don't 'make it'. How many local bands never get signed, despite being way more talented than the big names? How many roadies or guitar techs can play much better than the 'stars' but nobody's ever heard of them and they're not the ones rocking arenas? How many classical artists changed the world with their art, but only hundreds of years later as nobody appreciated what they were doing in their time? Would you tell Van Gogh that he just wasn't good enough and that's why he didn't sell any paintings?

"If you are a person that says that this doesn’t work is because you haven’t created anything good enough."

This is classic closed-loop thinking. It ignores actual data and cause/effect, and means you can't possibly disprove this argument - the very opposite of the scientific method of proof. It's like the fake psychic who insists that their wildly inaccurate guesses are the result of the sitter's 'poor energy'.

I think there are different market needs for how 'good' you need to be. Not everyone needs a master craftsman for their dining table - many are happy to buy cheaper Ikea furniture. You don't need to learn physics from Stephen Hawking, when a local school science teacher will be good enough.

Sure there is a place for being absolutely phenomenally good at what you do and I applaud that, and I applaud you for aiming for it. Like you, that is also where I get my passion and motivation from and desire to be the very best I can be at something - but I don't think that necessarily translates to being successful in business.
 

bdb

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My 2 cents

In a way I'm going to have to agree with MoreValue here.

It's totally ok to follow your passion as long as you are smart and objective about it. Without passionate people the world would be a very boring place where everyone is simply trying to satisfy the market in field of no interest to them in order to just make money.

Legend NBA players followed their passion for years
Legend soccer players followed their passion for years
Legend musicians followed their passion for years
Legend artists followed their passion for years

There are people out there who are not passionate about anything specific and that is ok. Can you make millions without being passionate about what you do ? totally. Can you become one of the greatest in your field? I doubt it.

Bill gates, Elon musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, etc all had immense passion about what they were doing, they didn't simply start in a field that was of no interest to them because they wanted to make money and become entrepreneurs like many people try to do and fail afterwards.

Are there passionate people who never made it ? sure millions. Why ? tons of different reasons, they were not good enough for their specific audiences or they were not smart about it, didn't put the effort required, didn't know how to market themselves or their products, etc.

My humble advice would be, try to align your passion with the market needs so you can deliver to your audience valuable products that you are really passionate about .

TLDR:
You don't need passion to make money, but you will need a lot of passion if you want to make big money and become one of greatest at what you do.

I'd like to close with a few Einstein quotes that I think are fit for this passion talk:

"It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer"
"In order to succeed your desire for success should be greater than your fear for failure"
"Only one who devotes himself to a cause with his whole strength and soul can be a true master. For this reason mastery demands all of a person."
 

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MJ DeMarco

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I disagree 100% on your central thesis.

In fact, it's pure thousandaire thinking.


You're describing superficial passion. It's the child's passion with the child's lens. Superficial passion is for wannabees who want to eat cotton candy and dance on rainbows while building a business. Frankly put, it's for amateurs who haven't matured beyond the unrealistic idealism they want from life.

Transformative passion is what drives success.

Transformative passion only comes from effort.
From results.
From self-development, growth, and maturity.

And to the poor folks who are stumbling on this thread, FOLLOWING PASSION IS HORRIBLE BUSINESS (AND LIFE) ADVICE. And most people who espouse the passion argument argue it from a superficial standpoint, and not from real success or from the actual psychological processes that drive success. In short, it's intellectually lazy.

Now that I follow my passion and actually am good at what I do, I am more successful than ever. I can clearly see myself being a multi millionair
Ah yes, you can *see* yourself a multi-millionaire but you aren't. If you want to preach your version of life-changing success, you're welcome to do it on your blog, your forum, or from your books. But you're not going to make counter-argument here, especially one which I find terribly reckless. (Not the part of being GREAT at what you do [good advice] but the part of ignoring need.)

I don't even have to go far to prove your theory wrong, at least from a multi-millionaire perspective.

There's a guy on the INSIDER FORUM who is a multi-millionaire many times over. He's Unscripted. Essentially, he's retired. He recently posted a thread stated that he wants to create a business valued at $5M in 5 years with nothing but his brain and hard work. He can't use ANY of his money. In short, this is a man who can follow his passion and not have to worry about money.


The business he selected for his project?

Mold remediation.

Gee, I wonder if he's passionate about mold remediation?

I wonder if billionaire Glenn Sterns was passionate about BBQ?

You see, people who have had wild success to the point they never have to work anymore-- billionaires and multi-millionaires many times over-- know that following passion is just idealistic hooey. We have a passion for the process, the result, and the value we create.

And people who succeed are passionate because the success is what breeds the passion. That's transformative passion-- the adult's passion. Superficial passion is for children.

:checkbox: Dominating your opponent on the BB court breeds passion.
:checkbox: Getting your a$$ handed to you on the BB court does not.

Winning breeds passion.
Losing does not.


Now the need route. So you found something that is needed, but have zero passion in it. Should you pursue it? Absolutely not.
Folks, don't listen to anonymous opinions from from anonymous people with unknown track records.

HORRIBLE ADVICE.

There is so much wrong in this statement, I don't know where to begin.

1) Somewhere out there, there is a person that is passionate in that need and they will run you over because they have unlimited work energy due to passion.
False.

Maybe they just have a passion for being good at something? A passion for providing for their family? A passion for getting rich? A passion for having their own business and making their own hours?

2) You will eventually give up because you hate it. Passion is what gives you the gas to work non stop.
False again.

You give up because you are looking at life through a child's lens, and hence, passion takes on the child's role.

3) If you aren’t passionate about it then, pretty much your only motivation is money $$$$. We all know how that goes...
Oh really? How does that go? Money motivates a lot of people. Freedom motivates.

The motive behind the effort is irrelevant.

Could be money, could be to impress a woman, could be to prove your parents wrong, could be as simple as not wanting to wear a suit and ride a train everyday. <-- that was my why, my purpose.

4) Kinda the same like #2, you have a limited shot clock for getting it right, your gas tank is limited without passion. Always thinking about cashing out.
You confuse purpose with passion.

While I agree with your tangential position about getting better at what you do (which itself creates passion) it is quickly invalidated when you say ignore them market, and ignore the need.

It's just plain bad advice, almost reckless.

Failures follow passions.
Winners let passion follow effort.

Legend NBA players followed their passion for years
Legend soccer players followed their passion for years
Legend musicians followed their passion for years
Legend artists followed their passion for years
You'll have better luck playing the lottery.

Legends become legends because they win and they force their talent to results. When they experience success (a standing ovation, victories on the bb court, platinum records) they connect a feedback loop, driving more passion. It becomes an self-reinforcing loop.

There are 428 NBA basketball players.

There are probably 650,000,000 people who love basketball.

But go ahead, feel free to follow your passion.

I walked into the bank, my guitar case strapped to my back. The security guard eyed me suspiciously, and deservedly so. I walked up to the teller and handed her three coupons from my mortgage payment. “I’m behind on my mortgage, I need to catch up,” I said.

The teller nervously glanced at my guitar case riding my back and then grabbed the coupons. She entered my account number into the computer and after a few clicks said, “With late fees and interest you owe $5,253. How would you like to pay?”

Without answering, I whipped around my guitar case and flipped its latches. The teller’s eyes widened as she lurched back in her chair. The security guard jumped off his stool and darted toward me. Expecting to find a rifle in the guitar case, the mortified teller put her hands up. But instead of a rifle, it held a banjo. I whipped it out and started strumming dixie.

The teller put her hands down and said “What on earth are doing?”

I said, “You asked how I wanted to pay my mortgage. This is my answer: I’m paying with passion.”
Passion is worthless. Not worth a penny. Nobody cares. UNLESS it matches up with a market need.
Can I get an amen?

I can't believe we are still having this discussion...
Actually the forum isn't going to entertain the discussion again, especially from someone who says to ignore the market and to ignore needs. That's a thought-line my forum ain't gonna promote.

Thread closed.
 
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