Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigarettes?

[speed-racer]

Hello.

I heard this situation for the 1st time several years ago. IMHO, it was used as a type of 'out clause' and/or 'control' to tick off one parent versus the true belief of child endangerment.

Q: Do you think that one parent should be able to take away or control another parent's choice just because that parent chooses to smoke cigarettes?


I heard where the ex-husband tried (and won, actually) to take his children away from their mother (mainly to get back at his ex-wife) by telling the Court that she's putting their children's health in jeopardy because she smokes both in the house and in the car with them around. Grant it, none of their children had asthmatic problems.

I believe this became a precedence in whichever State it was in.


What's your take on this situation? Do you think that was fair and therefore, valid to be used as grounds for full custody in the eyes of the Court even if it's proven that the questioned parent is a really good parent? Should it be a non-issue and the Court should have seen right through the ex-husband's motives or do you think it was a clear case of child endangerment?


Now, be honest: how many of you, especially the over-50 crowd, had parents, grandparents, friends and/or relatives who smoked cigarettes while you were in the house or car with the windows rolled down to a certain point OR in any public place where strangers were smoking (including on airplanes, stores, theaters, restaurants, ballparks, hospital waiting rooms, work, babysitters, public bathrooms, airports, government buildings, and on and on...) and you lived to tell about it and with no adverse effects?

What's changed that now makes it an 'OOOHHH' issue?

Should the Court even touch this one especially in the case of divorce? Should one adult be able exercise this much control over another adult while the non-custodial parent goes on to enjoy their life unless or until they are awarded custody (or not)?

Get mad if you want to, but even though I don't smoke, I do believe that bars SHOULD be able to allow their patrons to smoke :smxF: if the bar owner is okay with it. The only reason I believe this is because in America, no is forced to patronize a given bar or other establishment that allows smoking. It they don't like smoking (likewise for the employee applicants), I think it is the their right to patronize a non-smoking bar or restaurant. Am I wrong to think this way? Personally, I don't think so.

Will this question stay controversial or is the end in sight because there really is a 'right' answer? :huh2:

Just wondering...

 

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[speed-racer]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

Oops - 'Grant it' should be 'Granted' - oh well...

 

[fanocks2003]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

Speed-racer. No they should not lose their custody over a pair of cigarettes. My mom smoked the whole time I grew up and I can't say I have bad health at all. I don't have any criminal charges on my name either so I guess I grew up well and happy.

Social services and the once who misuse them for their own personal gain. I have had my own experience from social services and when they get a sniff on something tasty, like the case you mentioned, they will not let go. They will mess it up. That is what they are good at. Sorry to all you who work as social assistants, but my experience with the swedish social service (I understand the difference is hugh between countries on this) was terrible. Avoid them for all you are worth.

Even if you want to get even on your spouse, don't do it via the social services at least. Not worth it. Everyone lose.

 

[yveskleinsky]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

Sad that two people split up, have kids stuck in the middle of their nonsense, and then focus on whether or not the other's smoking is damaging their kids. Sigh. Sometimes I just think there is no hope for us as a society.

 

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[Russ H]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

Agree w/Yves.

But smoking (and now second hand smoke) is now officially considered something that is "bad for you" (in the US, not as much in other countries yet).

So is taking DEET (toxic carcinogen, we used it as kids to ward off mosquitoes).

Dozens of other carcinogens are now outlawed or considered illegal to use (or even own).

BTW, fanocks, it takes 30+ years for many cancers to manifest that can be triggered or aided by smoking or second hand smoke.

Both my wife's parents died from cancer. He smoked for years, gave it up 20 years ago.

Lung cancer was just 1 of the 4 cancers that got him (colon, liver, brain were the others).

I don't recommend anyone going through this-- either first hand, or watching a loved on go through it.

**********

Anyways, back to the topic:

Hitting your kids is now considered "bad" in the US.

It was not when I was a kid (in the 1960s).

There are LOTS-- LOTS of custody battles fought over parents abusing children these days.

So I see smoking as the next thing in this line of new abuses.

(not saying it's right or wrong-- just looking at trends)

**********

Wanna know one of the next trends in being "bad" or considered "abuse"?

Obesity.

China no longer allows adoptive parents to be overweight (i.e., you can't adopt a chinese baby if you are overweight, single or are taking any kind of anti-depressant drugs).

China Restricts Adoption Policies - ABC News

One particularly pithy blogger complained "no child has ever died from second hand fat".

But an argument could be made that obesity comes from eating habits that parents teach.

(again, not saying it's right or wrong-- just looking at trends).

-Russ H.

 

[Rawr]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

If the parents do not smoke around the kid, then no

If they do, I still vote no.

Parents can mess up their kids in an infinite number of ways. Smoking once the kid is born is not at the top of the list IMO

 

[Bobo]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

I heard where the ex-husband tried (and won, actually) to take his children away from their mother (mainly to get back at his ex-wife) by telling the Court that she's putting their children's health in jeopardy because she smokes both in the house and in the car with them around.

Be careful with custody decisions you 'hear about'. Who, precisely, said that the dad was doing this mainly to get back at his ex? I will bet you my custody battle bill from the past 6 months that this reason was not part of his affidavit.

My guess is that this was one small aspect of the case, one example of innappropriate behavior by mom.

I'd also ask the question of any parent on this board: If the Court said "Stop X, or you will lose custody"... Name an 'X' that you would not give up?

Believe very little of what you 'hear about' in custody decisions. I have detailed knowledge of a case where one parent has a serious history of mental illness, has been arrested for assaulting the other parent, has previously fled the state with the child against Court orders, does not provide any financial support to the child, has moved 12 times in 10 years, takes the child on overnight dates to a stranger's home and whom the child has asked NOT to live with primarily and whom the child has previously asked to be kept away unless there was supervision of the visit. The psychologist involved said that all of the problems stem from this parent....

Meanwhile the parent who receives no financial support, who has been assaulted, who the child wishes to live with, who has never spent time in a mental hospital and who has a 10 year track record of being a model parent has had to spend almost $30K defending his custody of the child. Catch the keyword there? HIS

Courts typically assume that Joint Managing Conservatorship is in the best interests of a child. Joint does not mean equal, mind you. For the Court to award Sole Managing Conservatorship (full custody) then there has to be a history of family violence or a pattern of behavior that endangers the child. Family Court Judges have tremendous latitude defining terms like best interests but if the aforementioned case was decided solely on the smoking issue then a $0.50 nicorette patch would constitute a significant change and offer a key to the courthouse door to reverse or alter the decision.

Courts don't award full custody to dad's without extremely good reason. It is generally assumed, despite the fact that most every state's Family Code prohibits gender bias, that mom gets sole or primary custody in a joint managing conservatorship. For Dad to gain custody he has to prove a lot more than Mom's smoking. After all, in the eyes of the divorce and custody industry, he's only the dad, it isn't like he is a real parent.

If you know where this was I'd love to read the court file on it but trust me, we are not getting the whole story. If you read what's been written about me you would never, ever believe that any court would conceivably award me anything but jail time, let alone primary custody of a young girl. Actually, you'd shoot me yourself if you believed half of it.

 

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[WildFlower]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

The smoking parent at least should be ordered to not smoke indoors and in the car .. must be outside. I have asthma and it would have been devastating for my health had either one of my parents smoked. Everyone knows that second hand smoke is bad. The problem I have with smoking is that I don’t care if someone chooses to do that.. but, the residual affects those around the smoker and they don’t have a choice of breathing it or not… especially if they are children. Asthma can be developed from secondhand smoke.

I always find it sad when a child comes over to my house reeking of cigarette smoke.

Oh.. by the way.. too much perfume is just as stinky!!!! I had to get my inhaler for the first time in a long time because someone decided to spray lots on to cover up they hadn’t showered. .. that’s the only reason I can figure why someone wears too much perfume. Peeyew!

 

[NoMoneyDown]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

This is interesting and really hits on some actual constitutional issues regarding child custody/support post-divorce.

Say the parents are NOT divorced, but one (or both) smoke - will a judge order the smoking parent(s) to stop?

Say the parents are NOT divorced, but one (or both) work - will a judge throw one (or both) parent(s) in jail if they lose their job and cannot retain the same financial lifestyle as before? I say this because IF the parents ARE divorced, and the Non-custodial Parent (NCP) loses their job, the courts will often throw them in jail if they can no longer pay child support. Downward modifications can and do happen, but (1) do not happen that much, and (2) can take months to happen all the while the arrears+interest pile up.

 

[hatterasguy]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

Its BS, you need to find the whole case.

Its like the coffee spilling case, people don't really understand what it was about. They just hear bits of it and assume.

 

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[hakrjak]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

I've been in the family court system for about a year now, fighting to restore rights to my children, and dealing with an insane ex who is bent out of shape over my remarriage. My biggest problem with the way they operate is that someone can go in and accuse the other party of ANYTHING with absolutely no evidence, and that person instantly becomes guilty until proven innocent. Family court is a mud slinging contest, and that's about all that goes on in that room.

So even if you are a smoker, and you smoke only outside and away from the kids -- Your ex could tell the judge that you smoke indoors, in the car, etc -- And you are instantly guilty in the eyes of the court.

I'd recommend anyone going through one of these cases to not take any chances at all with the future of your children. You must quit smoking, stop drinking, stop spanking (Even though these are all legal), and make sure you have all of your ducks in a row. Failure to do any of this can and will be used against you in the most ridiculous ways. You will be painted as an absolute villain.

As someone said above -- Family court is notoriously slanted away from Men, as well. If you are a father -- It is very uncommon for you to get 50/50 with your ex, and a lot of the time you are lucky to see your kids maybe 1 weekend every other week! In my case I've had the kids 3-4 days per week since birth, and the mother kidnapped the kids and I didn't see them until we got into a court room and got some rights restored. The Judge thought it was a good deal to give me 1 day a week back, and eventually 2 days a week. You would THINK that the default in cases like mine should be 50/50 -- but it doesn't happen very often.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

[NoMoneyDown]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

hakrjak - I hear you. I've been down that path as well (I wonder if we aren't twins sometimes - LOL), and you are right about the gender bias that exists in Family Court. No penalty for making false accusations, but it can just about ruin the other person's life. It's probably the one place that exists in the US where one's constitutional rights are ignored (hence my post above).

 

[hakrjak]

Re: Should one (1) Parent Lose Custody because they smoke cigaret

hakrjak - I hear you. I've been down that path as well (I wonder if we aren't twins sometimes - LOL), and you are right about the gender bias that exists in Family Court. No penalty for making false accusations, but it can just about ruin the other person's life. It's probably the one place that exists in the US where one's constitutional rights are ignored (hence my post above).

Haha, Amen brother I was actually born right up the road from you in Del Valle, BTW -- To add to the twins theory.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

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