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HOT TOPIC Should I be worried about capitalism changing? Or am I overthinking it?

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B. Cole

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Let’s step back and ask ourselves - Are we wasting time here arguing over invalid sh*t instead of furthering our fastlane ventures?

Jim Rohn - “Don’t major in minor things.”

Moving on.
 

ExaltedLife

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Read "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" by Ayn Rand if you want to understand the issue better.
 

ExaltedLife

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Let’s step back and ask ourselves - Are we wasting time here arguing over invalid sh*t instead of furthering our fastlane ventures?

Jim Rohn - “Don’t major in minor things.”

Moving on.

"Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles

"I am interested in politics so that one day I do not have to be interested in politics" - Ayn Rand
 

luniac

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Those numbers were military casualties only.



That was a joke that you are taking literally. Yes, Soviet Army was industrialized, badly, like the rest of their "industry". They were incompetent as F*ck.

Here's some more numbers about the Superior Red Army in 1940:
View attachment 23692

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I'm telling you numbers of the victims of his terror regime aren't even relevant. Same argument is often used by neo-nazis denying the holocaust. What does matter is that people were killed for not supporting the State, which is pure terror. If you're ok with that, you are probably living in the wrong state.



Like I said, selective ignorance. You believe what you want to believe.

Why would one source contain more truth than another for you? Because you want to believe it, it fits in your vision. That's what most people do. If you would "start this googling stuff with an open mind", you would at least admit that he caused serious crimes against humanity.

I can find "evidence" on Google that the holocaust was a hoax. But I choose not to believe those. Why? Because people that spread those sources have agendas, like spreading hate to other cultures and people.
Interpreting history means you question all sources, apart from your own opinion. And 99% of (also Russian) historians agree that the Stalin regime was pure terror. But those 1% probably speaks the truth for you, fine.



So one side is nationalist and the other side is communist, seems like you yourself are seeing it black and white?

The "liberators" become "occupiers". Most people just wanted to get rid of the totalitarian regime that was orchestrated from Moscow. Want examples? Prague Spring, Hungarian Revolution, Poznan Protests... Of course all followed by a blood bath. Those weren't just "nationalists", they were being occupied by the Soviets for almost 50 years just like the nazis occupied countries for 4-5 years! Nationalism was fed by this, yes. Soviets were even deporting whole families to gulags just for being Latvian, Estonian, Polish, or whatever (these are known facts). The few ones that supported the communists had usually good reasons for that, like having a good job or getting some favors.

Seriously, if it was all that good, they wouldn't ditch this Red Terror like all those countries did starting 1989.

Perhaps you should go see for yourself and go visit Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Ukraine and see what this Red Terror did with those people instead of "doing serious research" on Google safely behind your computer.

lol i don't know much at all bout the finland winter war, if the fins went beast mode it is wat it is.

The soviet war machine eventually became beast mode too, powerful enough to push back the nazis and change the course of the war at stalingrad.
I dont see the incompetence here, unless u gonna gloss over and hand wave away the real life complexity of war.

Man people can get killed for not supporting the state anywhere, any country. I'm not surprised that in the incredibly volatile post revolutionary wartime climate of eastern europe that shit like that can and did happen.
That doesn't make the day to day life in the soviet union some kind of living hell.
Comparing Soviet Union to holocaust and stalin to hitler is fukin ridiculous lol its absurd.

Of course some people saw the "liberators" as "occupiers", that's just how it is.
We ain't exactly giving back the lands of texas and california back to Mexico either, but when Soviet Union won't let go of all the lands it beat the nazis on, now its an evil empire.
Feels like a double standard.

You can tell me the numbers of how many people were sent to gulags, for what reasons, how long, and how many were released. These numbers also don't have a consensus.

The fall of soviet union in 1991 was indeed a failure due to deep corruption in the leadership, and the 90's in russia were lawless hell.

That's why I'm not all excited about the idea of another soviet union. I like free market capitalism.
I believe there's a middle ground somewhere that is the right answer.
 

rollerskates

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I am concerned that a wide majority of voting public support 75+ percent taxes on the “wealthy” only basically definied as “not them.”

And the majority of the public would be very surprised to learn that even the poor pay taxes--not income tax, but FICA and other stuff--if they dare to be self employed. Not only is it a (tax) crime to be wealthy, it's also a (tax) crime to be self employed at any level of income. If you're self employed, you can literally make $2,000.00 in a year in income and still pay taxes.

At any rate--to the OP: turn off the noise. If you don't pay attention to what the new media says, your life will be far better and you will realize that you don't have to have the limitations they place on you. Spend your time reading offline stuff instead. Or, if you must be online, be on Youtube or Udemy learning something. I know people who have developed severe anxiety from their obsession with the news and the pop culture world and everything that the news people tell them is wrong with the country, the world, or themselves and have had to be medicated. It can literally make you sick. Turn. It. Off.
 

Everyman

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That’s a good point, end of the world stuff like the “asteroid might kill us all one day” is definitely a motivation killer, and sorry, I just overthink everything.

Hey Man

my first question if I may ask, as I don't know much about you, and you don't know about me...

Are you a billionaire or over 100M $ worth?

Being scared and overthinking is a waste of time and emotional energy, but at the same time it's idiotic to dismiss someone's concern with "LOL". Bad things are real. And just because you've lived in a safe little bubble until now, doesn't mean future risks are zero.

Yep. Couldn't agree more. We need to be reasonable with it too...
 

MJ DeMarco

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Not privy to all the details of the NYC/Amazon debacle but I'm guessing it went a little like this...

Amazon: We will give you $25 if you cut us a $12 tax break, a net of $13.
NYC: Sounds like a win-win.
Anti-capitalists: No, we want all $25.
Amazon: f*ck you, now you get nothing. A big fat ZERO.
Anti-capitalists: We win!

Scary that these people hold high offices.
 

Kak

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Not privy to all the details of the NYC/Amazon debacle but I'm guessing it went a little like this...

Amazon: We will give you $25 if you cut us a $12 tax break, a net of $13.
NYC: Sounds like a win-win.
Anti-capitalists: No, we want all $25.
Amazon: F*ck you, now you get nothing. A big fat ZERO.
Anti-capitalists: We win!

Scary that these people hold high offices.

Boeing does international water deliveries in the sky now to avoid Washington state sales tax.

They offered like $20-50 grand in sales tax per plane because the whole debacle of flying to international waters costs about that... Washington state said no and wanted their whole 8% or whatever. Boeing says OK f*ck you we will sign papers and deliver over open ocean. So they do. Washington gets nothing.

Go Boeing.

It is about time governments start competing for the opportunity.
 
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TheCj

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Reminds me of a story I heard somewhere about 5 people go to dinner..

Beauty of google here it is, seems to be a couple of similar version's of the story:

The cost of dinner

Each and every day, 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner together. The bill for all 10 comes to $100 each day. If the bill were paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The 10th man – the richest – would pay $59. Although the 10 men didn't share the bill equally, they all seemed content enough with the arrangement – until the restaurant owner threw them a curve.

"You're all very good customers," the owner said, "so I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20. I'm going to charge you just $80 in total." The 10 men looked at each other and seemed genuinely surprised, but quite happy about the news.

The first four men, of course, are unaffected because they weren't paying anything for their meals anyway. They'll still eat for free. The big question is how to divvy up the $20 in savings among the remaining six in a way that's fair for each of them. They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33, but if they subtract that amount from each person's share, then the fifth and sixth men would end up being paid to eat their meals. The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each person's bill by roughly the same percentage, and he proceeded to work out the amounts that each should pay.


The results? The fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $14, leaving the 10th man with a bill of $50 instead of $59. Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got one dollar out of the $20," said the sixth man, pointing to the 10th man, "and he got $9!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too! It's not fair that he got nine times more than me!" "That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get back $9 when I only got $2? The rich get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine outraged men surrounded the 10th and brutally assaulted him. The next day, he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they faced a problem that they hadn't faced before. They were $50 short.

End of day more money more options..

See large businesses move there company assets from country to country region to region if the laws, taxes are better elsewhere.

Can only enjoy that freedom if have the means to afford it. So get to that point as soon as you can, and less to worry about.
 
D

Deleted52409

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Republicans will continue to virtue signal and preach "I'm not racist" and muh constitution/individualism. Meanwhile, Democrats will continue to play identity politics and import their voters who will demographically replace us. Texas, Arizona, Georgia, and Florida will be democrat within 10 years.

It will be interesting to see what white men do when they finally wake up to the fact that western civilization has been stolen from them.
 

socaldude

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I think over the long term capitalism will change.

Politics have become very polarized in America. It will change with new laws and regulations.

A government will always assert it's existence and will always make new laws on top of the new laws it has already made.

Capitalism works when people are aware, ethical and innovative and when markets are free.

In the past people have not been ethical so the government has stepped in and made laws and regulations.

The wrong laws and regulations hurt our economy it's just not so obvious how because economics is complex.
 

masterneme

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Yes, I am concerned.... But no more concerned than I have been for more than a decade. I have always held the notion that when this country no longer makes sense for me to live in, I will leave. I control my life... Not politics.
You know? I've been thinking for a while that the movie Elysium is a good depiction of how the world is going to be in the future.

I think that politicians and "intellectuals" are going to play the "diversity is our strength" game to the extreme, trying hard to manipulate minorities (who later will become the majority) just to gain more power.

One day people will be so fed up that will go away and people from all over the world will reunite together and create a new community that can grow to a new nation.

And then the countries they left will collapse because they're full of irresponsible, lazy idiots who can't do sh1t.

And what comes after that? The Hunger Games! Because of course wealthy people are evil and the root cause of everything wrong in Society!
 

DonTriumph

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Read "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" by Ayn Rand if you want to understand the issue better.

This should be a required reading in every humanities/social science courses and degrees.

As far as my experience goes, those courses praises leftist ideologies but doesn't give any justice to rightist or even centrist philosophies.

We are taught Marxism. We are even required to read Marx's book (or selected parts), Das Kapital and Communist Manifesto.

But so far, none of these classes talk about the benefits of capitalism, or the actual consequences of Marxism, or the importance of liberty in our society and as individuals.
 

DonTriumph

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Greed, rip-offs, etc pre-date capitalism by centuries, so they should be no surprise. The real innovation is that when people are given rights, and when property can be freely exchanged, people thrive despite the underlying problems caused by bad actors.

To think about it, capitalism (together with ideologies founded by liberty like democracy) is the only ideology that truly liberated people so far.

As mentioned before, common people won't do well in pre-capitalist societies. A serf will always be a serf. He can't "strike out on his own" and "be his own boss".

Today, what is as freeing as capitalism? As I know it, none.

Yet, it really makes me scratch my head when professors say "Capitalism enslaves people (the workers)." Like, really? Then they'll go on to praise Communism, LOL.

I don't understand why they don't see what fundamentally separates capitalism from others: free choice and consent.
 

DonTriumph

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Greed, rip-offs, etc pre-date capitalism by centuries, so they should be no surprise. The real innovation is that when people are given rights, and when property can be freely exchanged, people thrive despite the underlying problems caused by bad actors.

Professors like to extend from theoretical frameworks. Marx has become a popular choice for their theoretical basis. In the US, it reaches the point of absurdity -- graduate school was akin to political catechism at times.

@DonTriumph The attractive thing about Marx, to them, is that while he talks about community, and fairness, and putting the tools in the hands of the workers, and whatnot, he also relies on wise and benevolent elites to decide what is best for the community. This makes professors blush and get all huffy because, in their minds, they are the aforementioned elites. It's like making yourself the aristocracy without having to admit you're putting yourself above other people... very attractive!

Also worth noting... "capitalism" was a term coined by Marx(ists) as a slander against modern (classical liberal) values. What it really refers to is property rights and the moral rights to free action and life choices. These rights are seen as damaging or dangerous because, in their theoretical framework, an individual can not be trusted. A small number of elites deciding what is best for "the collective?" Sure, they can be trusted all day.

I didn't know the word "capitalism" was coined by the Marxists. Thanks for that!

Yes, that's true. Marxists believe that if the environment is a major factor in the attitude of a person. So he's like wanting to "re-engineer" the society for his utopic vision.

On the other hand, Marx talks about his theory on "classless society", which I think, for him, is the final achievement of communism. This is where "true" communism begins.

As far as I remember, he simply wants all societal structures be gone because it's the root of all capital acquisition and the inequality between the upper and lower.

Sure, the caveman do have a "classless society", but did he forgot that people will eventually form a society based on your class?

And, if anything, capitalism has actually shattered this strict class system. For example, a worker can strike on his own by becoming an entrepreneur.

A serf, on the other hand, is bound to be a serf until he dies or unless his master graciously free him - which would be very rare.

Do anyone notice that stories of "rags-to-riches" or being self-made only applies to a free society?
 

Rabby

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A serf, on the other hand, is bound to be a serf until he dies or unless his master graciously free him - which would be very rare.

Do anyone notice that stories of "rags-to-riches" or being self-made only applies to a free society?

Right. The idea of "self-made" or "riches" is fundamentally threatening to a Marxist ideology, even the final communist utopia. Marxism is a collectivist philosophy, where individuals aren't supposed to be empowered. Ultimately, this means that someone who is dissatisfied with the collective state of things is a bad actor; government implementations of Marxism will imprison or execute such an "individual" as a threat... after all, they apparently aren't happy with the mono-class-state of society, therefore they pose a risk to that carefully constructed state.

It's amazing how clearly this comes out in Marx-inspired political writings. Mussolini wrote about the
abnegazione di sé... the abnegation, or deletion, of the "self." You must sacrifice yourself for the "good" of "all." Individualism is the enemy of Marxism, plain and simple.

Serfs - when they were freed was likely when the master no longer wanted to support them. Basically, they got too old or broken down to work, then they were "freed." Like a lame horse, or a chicken that doesn't lay eggs.

Actually, I think this is the default tragedy that occurs when individuals are not given rights. They can't have anything, can't build any assets, so they are at the mercy of whoever has the power (doesn't matter what system you're in, feudal, Marxist, or otherwise). When they can't work at the same level of productivity anymore, they are discarded.

The more cruel collectivist systems might even come up with creative "solutions" for this. For example, Nazi Germany infamously had posters urging people to turn in cripples and elderly people because, well, they "took up resources." "The we" had a war to win, and a society to build, after all. How selfish for one person to want to eat, when it slowed "everyone" down.

Always zero-sum because Marx badly misunderstood resources and production and trade. Always doing great harm to people in weak social position because "the collective" (in practice a pointer to whatever the leader wants) is infinitely more important than the individual. The collective has "rights" which are exercised against the individual. The individual has no rights, or very few.

Riches? Gosh no. In most systems, you won't find an individual with riches unless they control the government. While a classical-liberal system reserves rights for the individual, the others reserve nearly all rights for a king, an elite class, or the so-called collective.
 

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The real issue I find isn't so much with "Capitalism." At least what real capitalism is. Personally, I am also okay with certain levels of marketeering as well, but I can also understand the anger some people have for that. The larger issue really is by the hands of the government. The socio-economic systems are essentially used as scapegoats by many at this point. However, before I go full Alex Jones, I better digress...

Don't concern yourself with that of what you can't control! If tomorrow you wake up to anarchy, the dollar is $0, and there is chaos everywhere you look; you will still need to adapt and find a way to make it in this world.
 

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