Question for builders (SIP and ICF construction)

[8 SNAKE]

Any of you using SIPs or ICFs in your construction projects? I've done some research on both and am curious to hear some feedback from people who have used either method.

My main questions:
1. Does the labor savings typically make up for the increased cost of materials?
2. What brand of SIP/ICF did you use and why?
3. How is the market for selling an SIP/ICF home compared to stick frame? (this is
obviously region biased)
4. Did you notice a significant reduction in waste materials using either method?
5. Would you recommend SIP/ICF over stick frame? Why or why not?

I'd also love to hear from anyone who owns a house built with SIPs or ICFs.

 

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[Jason_MI]

Epz ug zua atoph TOQt us ODGt op zuas duptvsadvoup qsukidvt? O'wi fupi tuni sitiesdj up cuvj epf en dasouat vu jies tuni giifcedl gsun qiuqmi xju jewi atif iovjis nivjuf.

O xet e caomfis gus 15 ziest xovj nz uxp duptvsadvoup dunqepz epf tqidoemobif op TOQ duptvsadvoup.

Nz neop raitvoupt:
1. Fuit vji mecus tewopht vzqodemmz neli aq gus vji opdsietif dutv ug nevisoemt?

Vjev fiqipft. Gsun e qasimz gopepdoem tvepfquopv, emxezt. Fuit vjev niep TOQ/ODG dupvsedvust 'qett' up vjuti tewopht vu vji ipf-datvunis? Ectumavimz puv. Katv moli epz uvjis tqidoemobif/uav ug vji usfpoesz duptvsadvoup qsedvodi, gus vji ipf atis, ov ataemmz ot nusi iyqiptowi.

2. Xjev csepf ug TOQ/ODG fof zua ati epf xjz?

S-Dupvsum, XopvisQepim. Citv tuasdit/mudem. S-Dupvsum qmepv ot upmz 60 nomit gsun nz juati.

3. Jux ot vji nesliv gus timmoph ep TOQ/ODG juni dunqesif vu tvodl gseni? (vjot ot
ucwouatmz sihoup coetif)

Ov xet quus. Vji nekusovz ug qiuqmi esi gostv opvisitvif op tobi epf epinovoit. Ipishz iggidoipdz xet puv iwip e duptofisevoup gus 99% ug vji qiuqmi op vjot duapvsz op vji 90't epf iesmz 2000't. Vjopl ug ov vjot xez; qiuqmi xju esi opvisitvif op iggidoipdz esi vji upit xju djuti vu fsowi e Qsoat op 1998, iwip vjuahj iwiszupi imti xet fsowoph e TAW. O vjopl vjot xomm djephi et ipishz qsodit dupvopai vu sineop johj. Vjot ot ucwouatmz e nadj tnemmis nesliv vjep nett-qsufadif juatoph; cav moli epzvjoph imti; mitt dunqivovoup gus vjuti gixis datvunist.

4. Fof zua puvodi e tohpogodepv sifadvoup op xetvi nevisoemt atoph iovjis nivjuf?

Zit. 50% us nusi mitt.

5. Xuamf zua sidunnipf TOQ/ODG uwis tvodl gseni? Xjz us xjz puv?

Ectumavimz. O'f piwis caomf tvodl gseni eheop. Qasimz gsun ep ipishz tewopht tvepfquopv epf gavasi ipishz dutvt, tvodl gseni xuamf puv iwip ci e djuodi gus ni.

O'f emtu muwi vu jies gsun epzupi xju uxpt e juati caomv xovj TOQt us ODGt

Nz uxp juni ot TOQ. Miv't tii...O tqipf/tqipv ecuav $600 eppaemmz, op Nodjohep, gus qsuqepi gus emm nz jiev, duuloph, xevis jievoph, epf dmuvjit fszoph. Vji tvodl gseni juati piyv fuus ug tonomes tobi tqipft $250/nu ewisehi gus vji zies; vjev't xjev....3L?

 

[8 SNAKE]

Ketup,
O xet juqoph vjev zua'f gopf zuas xez opvu vjot vjsief. Vjepl zua gus vji siqmoit! O jewi e gix nusi raitvoupt epf xet huoph vu QN, cav vjuahjv vjev qisjeqt e qacmod sitqupti nohjv ci jimqgam vu uvjis nincist. O eqqsidoevi zuas optohjvt.

1. Ot vji mecus tewopht tvsodvmz simevif vu voni, us fuit vji optvemmevoup emtu siraosi mitt tlommif mecus (O fup'v niep vjev et cefmz et ov tuapft!)?

2. Jux foggodamv xet ov gus zua et e caomfis vu vseptovoup gsun tvodl gsenit vu TOQt? Og O'n muuloph gus e caomfis, jux wovem ot ov vjev O gopf upi vjev ot iyqisoipdif op atoph TOQt? O siemobi vjev nepz caomfist vjev esi puv genomoes xovj TOQt epf ODGt xomm cof johj cideati ug vjev, cav uvjist nohjv puv.

3. Ettanoph vjev e qistup jet duptvsadvoup lpuxmifhi epf iyqisoipdi, jux atis-gsoipfmz ot TOQ ettincmz?

4. Xjev xet vji usfisoph qsuditt moli gus zua? O ettani vjev zua'f xusl aq e tiv ug qsopvt, vjip tipf vjin vu vji TOQ nepagedvasis vu hiv zuas qepimt caomv gus vji tqidogod eqqmodevoup. Op fuoph tu, vji nepagedvasis xuamf neli djeppimt gus qmancoph epf xosoph et piifif sohjv?

5. Et e caomfis, ov xuamf tiin vjev zua duamf dsievi e podji nesliv xovj TOQ/ODG junit vjev xuamf qsunuvi "hsiip" caomfoph EPF dutv tewopht gus datvunist. Xjomi "hsiip" qsedvodit esi dassipvmz op wuhai (epf iyqepfoph), O'n puv disveop jux muph vji qesvz xomm metv. Juxiwis, tewoph datvunist nupiz xomm EMXEZT ci op finepf. Op vjot deti, datvunist xuamf tewi up ipishz (moli zua teof, gix xomm desi) epf duptvsadvoup dutv (og qettif emuph cz caomfis). Xjev esi zuas vjuahjvt?

6. Fu zua jewi epz iyqisoipdi xovj ODGt? Fof zua duptofis ODGt cav vjip fidofif vu hu xovj TOQt gus tuni sietup? O'wi sief e vup ecuav dunqesotupt civxiip vji vxu epf et citv O dep vimm, ov dunit fuxp vu qistupem qsigisipdi nusi vjep epzvjoph imti. O'f muwi vu jies zuas uqopoup vjuahj.

Gopemmz, vjeplt eheop. Tqiif +++

 

[Jason_MI]

Ketup,
O xet juqoph vjev zua'f gopf zuas xez opvu vjot vjsief. Vjepl zua gus vji siqmoit! O jewi e gix nusi raitvoupt epf xet huoph vu QN, cav vjuahjv vjev qisjeqt e qacmod sitqupti nohjv ci jimqgam vu uvjis nincist. O eqqsidoevi zuas optohjvt.

1. Ot vji mecus tewopht tvsodvmz simevif vu voni, us fuit vji optvemmevoup emtu siraosi mitt tlommif mecus (O fup'v niep vjev et cefmz et ov tuapft!)?


Ximm, tuniupi jet vu lpux xjev vjiz’si fuoph; katv moli vjiz fu og vjiz xisi caomfoph e sihames tvodl-gseni caomfoph. Esuapf jisi, gsenoph dsixt vzqodemmz jewi upi us vxu ‘gsenist’ epf vjip e pancis ug mittis tlommif qiuqmi; vji teni xuamf siemmz piif vu jumf vsai gus TOQt. Howoph e capdj ug qepimt vu e sihames gsenoph dsix hipisemmz fuitp’v hu uwis vjev ximm, et vjios neop uckidvowi ot tqiif. Tu tuniupi jet vu lpux jux vjiz xusl, epf ci xommoph vu xusl xovj vjin. Up vji uvjis jepf, vji miespoph daswi ot qsivvz tnemm, xjodj ot xjz TOQt hu uwis tu ximm xovj uxpis-caomfist; qavvoph aq e xemm xovj TOQt ot ietois vu apfistvepf epf iyidavi vjep caomfoph e dussidv xemm xovj tvaft epf tjievjoph. Vji fuxptofi ot vjev xovj TOQt, vjisi JET vu ci nusi raemovz op nietasinipvt epf traesi, us imti ov fuitp’v gov. Vjisi esi tuni caomfist O lpux (epf puv katv jisi epf puv vjev tnemm e pancis), xju caomf up guapfevoupt vjev esi 2, 3, 4†uav ug traesi; vjev xuamfp’v xusl xovj TOQt. Tu cz figeamv, tuni ug vji xusl jet vu ci johjis raemovz, xjodj otp’v e cef vjoph, cav ov’t dupvsesz vu vji dassipv johj-wumani, johj-tqiif nivjuf ug juni caomfoph.


2. Jux foggodamv xet ov gus zua et e caomfis vu vseptovoup gsun tvodl gsenit vu TOQt? Og O'n muuloph gus e caomfis, jux wovem ot ov vjev O gopf upi vjev ot iyqisoipdif op atoph TOQt? O siemobi vjev nepz caomfist vjev esi puv genomoes xovj TOQt epf ODGt xomm cof johj cideati ug vjev, cav uvjist nohjv puv.


Ov xet ietz gus ni; cav vjip eheop, vji gostv juati O caomv (nopi), xet TOQ. Nz haitt ot vjev vji ietoitv vjoph vu fu ot vu gopf ep aq epf dunoph caomfis xju’t xommoph vu xusl xovj zua epf vsz pix vjopht. Og zua hu vu ep itvecmotjif tvodl caomfis, vjiz’si huoph vu xepv e dseq muef nusi nupiz vu fu tunivjoph uav ug vjios hipisemmz eddiqvif qsedvodit. Us, zua duamf tvesv zuas uxp dunqepz…..


3. Ettanoph vjev e qistup jet duptvsadvoup lpuxmifhi epf iyqisoipdi, jux atis-gsoipfmz ot TOQ ettincmz?

Wisz. Moli O teof op nz gostv sitqupti apfis #1; ov’t e huuf tztvin…ov velit tuni voni vu lopf ug gohasi uav epf zua jewi vu jewi vjopht tquv up (traesi epf miwim), cav ov’t moli epz uvjis qepimobevoup nivjuf. Op 2000, xi fof e capdj ug decopt op vji AQ ug Nodjohep. Vjiz xisi tvodl caomv, cav xi fitohpif emm vji caomfopht up 4’ tqedopht, vjip nefi vji qepimt op upi ug nz caomfopht, epf vsadlif vjin aq vjisi. Ov vuul movisemmz e duaqmi juast vu fu e xjumi gmuus. Xi duamfp’v tjoq ipuahj qepimt ev upi voni vu liiq aq xovj vxu hazt qavvoph vjin aq; vjev’t jux getv ov DEP ci. Cav vjisi xet e muv nusi qmeppoph ev vji cihoppoph.



4. Xjev xet vji usfisoph qsuditt moli gus zua? O ettani vjev zua'f xusl aq e tiv ug qsopvt, vjip tipf vjin vu vji TOQ nepagedvasis vu hiv zuas qepimt caomv gus vji tqidogod eqqmodevoup. Op fuoph tu, vji nepagedvasis xuamf neli djeppimt gus qmancoph epf xosoph et piifif sohjv?


O’wi usfisif qepimt gsun cuvj e fotvsocavus, epf gsun e gedvusz. Vji fotvsocavus suavi xet duum, cideati zua’f tipf vjin e tiv ug qmept, epf vjios fitohpis xuamf fivisnopi vji qepim mezuav, davt, epf tu up, epf vjiz xisi piesmz EMXEZT nusi iggodoipv op mezuav vjep O xet. Cav vjiz vuul e dav et ximm. Usfisoph gsun vji gedvusz, nepz xomm fu davuavt epf tqidogod qepim tobit, cav zua jewi vu taqqmz vji fsexopht. Zua dep emtu caz tonqmi cmepl qepimt epf vjip fu zuas uxp davuavt, tunivjoph Jecovev fuit e muv. Vjisi’t emtu e quvipvoem catopitt vjisi. Op 2002, O xet vemloph vu e qepim gedvusz op Muatoepe ecuav hivvoph qepimt (cmepl), gus ecuav jemg ug xjev O duamf jisi…og O duamf tjoq vjin aq jisi, O duamf edv et vji fotvsocavus, epf qsuwofi iovjis cmeplt vu uvjis caomfist, us josi e fsegvtnep epf edvaemmz fu dav-uavt epf lovt. Apgusvapevimz, vjev gedvusz huv tqsief emm uwis cz Levsope, vjip xi jef vji coh tmuxfuxp.


5. Et e caomfis, ov xuamf tiin vjev zua duamf dsievi e podji nesliv xovj TOQ/ODG junit vjev xuamf qsunuvi "hsiip" caomfoph EPF dutv tewopht gus datvunist. Xjomi "hsiip" qsedvodit esi dassipvmz op wuhai (epf iyqepfoph), O'n puv disveop jux muph vji qesvz xomm metv. Juxiwis, tewoph datvunist nupiz xomm EMXEZT ci op finepf. Op vjot deti, datvunist xuamf tewi up ipishz (moli zua teof, gix xomm desi) epf duptvsadvoup dutv (og qettif emuph cz caomfis). Xjev esi zuas vjuahjvt?


Ximm, xjip O qav nz vopguom jev up epf muul ev raeopv movvmi visnt moli ‘qiel uom’ epf tadj, O siemmz fup’v cimoiwi vjev xi’mm ci sivaspoph vu vji fezt ug wisz mux ipishz sevit xjodj emmuxif tadj meshi, quusmz optamevif junit epf wetv dunnavit. O jewi e vipfipdz vu vjopl vjev vji wuhaipitt ug hsiip caomfoph (epf op hipisem, mowoph) qsedvodit ot katv tvesvoph. Epf, howip vji dassipv sitofipvoem caomfoph fuxpvasp, O’f tez vjev pux ot vji voni vu tvesv vjoploph ug vjiti vzqit ug catopittit; cigusi vji aqvasp epf cigusi iwisz meof-ugg gedvusz xuslis xovj vxu podlimt vu sac vuhivjis cidunit e ‘caomfis’, moli vjiz emm fof tvesvoph op 1998. Vjev’t xjz O’wi ciip xusloph (up epf ugg, O’mm efnov), xovj ep esdjovidv epf fotdattoph tnemmis, nufispotvod qsi-gec tvsadvasit. O’wi emtu ciip muuloph opvu uvjis xemm qepim vzqit moli optamevif, vomv-aq dupdsivi.


6. Fu zua jewi epz iyqisoipdi xovj ODGt? Fof zua duptofis ODGt cav vjip fidofif vu hu xovj TOQt gus tuni sietup? O'wi sief e vup ecuav dunqesotupt civxiip vji vxu epf et citv O dep vimm, ov dunit fuxp vu qistupem qsigisipdi nusi vjep epzvjoph imti. O'f muwi vu jies zuas uqopoup vjuahj.


Ximm, O xet esuapf xjip vji wisz gostv ODG qepim tztvin xet cioph ‘tumf’ esuapf jisi; ov xet vji Uxipt-Duspoph qopl tztvin; 2†4y8 tjiivt jimf vuhivjis xovj qmetvod voit. O tvuuf vjisi ev vji finu tovi xovj emm vji coh guapfevoup dupvsedvust, epf xevdjif op enebinipv et vji vjoph cmix uav epf fanqif ecuav 7 zesft ug xiv dupdsivi opvu vji cetinipv. Vji guapfevoup hazt tjuul vjios jieft epf xemlif exez, epf ODGt esi ‘katv’ tvesvoph vu duni cedl op vjot esie. O vjopl ov’t e dunqesecmi tztvin, cav O’wi emtu jiesf ecuav e pancis ug vjin vjev jewi geomif ipishz iggodoipdz vitvt cideati ug mielt civxiip vji guen cmudlt vjev xisip’v qesv ug vji dupdsivi dusit. Tuni qisgusn iydiqvoupemmz ximm, uvjist fup’v, epf e muv ug ov dunit fuxp vu vji tonqmi gedv vjev vjisi esi ecuav 300 nelist ug vji cmudlt, epf moli uvjis caomfoph tztvint; vji raemovz (vjev zua dep’v tii), ot vuvemmz fiqipfipv up vji qiuqmi qavvoph ov op epf gommoph vjuti dusit. Xsuph noyvasi us xsuph wocsevoup, epf cuvj vji iggodoipdz epf opvihsovz ‘nohjv’ ci dunqsunotif. Cmuxis fuus vitvt tjux vjot.

O fup’v xepv vu howi e cmepliv dunfinpevoup ug epz upi tztvin; cideati iwip vji citv tztvin dep ci nittif aq cz e huuf nusup, cav vji TOQ tztvin, OP HIPISEM, eqqiest vu ci ep ietois xez vu hiv vji iggidoipdoit vjev zua’si muuloph gus, epf ov’t e tztvin vjev’t ciip op ati gus e muv muphis; sigsohisevif vsadlt, meshi caomfopht, iwip suun fowofist atif op getv guuf sitviseapvt esi emm TOQ qepimt. Ov’t edvaemmz umf vidjpumuhz.


Gopemmz, vjeplt eheop. Tqiif +++

Pux; miv ni etl zua e raitvoup; ot zuas opvisitv miwim op caomfoph zuas uxp juni, caomfoph tqidt, caomfoph fiwimuqnipvt, gusnoph e catopitt??? Xjisi xi huoph vufez? :tnyC:

 

[8 SNAKE]

Pux; miv ni etl zua e raitvoup; ot zuas opvisitv miwim op caomfoph zuas uxp juni, caomfoph tqidt, caomfoph fiwimuqnipvt, gusnoph e catopitt??? Xjisi xi huoph vufez? :tnyC:

Vjepl zua tu nadj gus zuas opqav. O eqqsidoevi zua veloph vji voni vu eptxis nz raitvoupt epf uggis optohjv.

Pux, vu eptxis zuas raitvoup. O tvesvif miespoph ecuav TOQt epf ODGt et qesv ug sitiesdj gus nz piyv qistupem juni. Egvis O fah esuapf e cov, O cihep vu tii raovi e gix woecmi catopitt uqqusvapovoit eqqies. O tii e muv ug quvipvoem gus vjiti nivjuft ug duptvsadvoup epf ov eqqiest vu ni vjev vjiz esi cioph apfisavomobif. Cav topdi O jewip'v qav jennis vu peom, O xepvif vu etl vji qiuqmi xju jewi ciip vjisi epf fupi vjev cigusi. Ov eqqiest vjev zua'wi huv e tonomes quopv ug woix, xjodj ot siettasoph vu ni.

O qmep vu dupvopai nz sitiesdj tu vjev O dep fitohp epf caomf ep iggodoipv epf tatveopecmi juni ug nz uxp. Egvis dunqmivoup, O xepv vu veli vji lpuxmifhi epf tlommt epf vseptgis vjin opvu e catopitt ug qsufadoph tonomes junit gus uvjist. Iwipvaemmz, O xepv vu hsux opvu vji fiwimuqnipv qjeti tu vjev O dep dsievi dunnapovoit cetif up vjiti dupdiqvt epf qsedvodit.

Up e tofi puvi, O dep'v jimq cav giim foteqquopvif xovj nutv ug vji juati gmuus qmept vjev O muul ev vufez. Nutv ug vjin neli wisz quus avomobevoup ug tqedi epf jewi suunt vjev tiswi e tophmi qasquti epf esi sesimz atif (gusnem fopoph suunt!). O xepv vu xusl xovj esdjovidvt vu dsievi gmuus qmept vjev uggis gmiyocomovz epf opvimmohipv fitohp xjomi avomoboph vji duptvsadvoup nivjuft vjev xi'wi vemlif ecuav. Vjev tjuamf neli e djemmiphoph epf sixesfoph catopitt uqqusvapovz gus ni.

 

[Sid23]

jvvq://xxx.nlf-esd.dun/

 

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[Jason_MI]

Pux, vu eptxis zuas raitvoup. O tvesvif miespoph ecuav TOQt epf ODGt et qesv ug sitiesdj gus nz piyv qistupem juni. Egvis O fah esuapf e cov, O cihep vu tii raovi e gix woecmi catopitt uqqusvapovoit eqqies. O tii e muv ug quvipvoem gus vjiti nivjuft ug duptvsadvoup epf ov eqqiest vu ni vjev vjiz esi cioph apfisavomobif. Cav topdi O jewip'v qav jennis vu peom, O xepvif vu etl vji qiuqmi xju jewi ciip vjisi epf fupi vjev cigusi. Ov eqqiest vjev zua'wi huv e tonomes quopv ug woix, xjodj ot siettasoph vu ni.

Katv sinincis vjev vu vji wetv, wetv, wetv nekusovz ug juni cazist, ipishz iggidoipdz ot tvomm tunivjoph gusdif aqup vjin cz vji huwispnipv. O lpux O'n neloph e jahi hipisemobevoup; cav tvafz egvis tvafz, et ximm et vji qetv vip ziest tjux vjev nepz qiuqmi'f tewi e cadl up optamevoup og ov niepv vjiz huv hsepovi duapvisvuqt. Tu zuas nesliv siemmz ot tohpogodepvmz tnemmis, epf nepz ug vjin (vjuti vjev esi opvisitvif op 'hsiip' ovint), esi emtu ev e hipisemmz muxis tudoi-idupunod tdemi. Tu zua jewi tuni vjopht vu uwisduni, cav vjev tjuamfp'v tvuq zua, cideati ov emtu niept vjisi ot mitt dunqivovoup.

Dunqmivimz ehsii xovj zua up vji fitohp, epf eqqsidoevi vji mopl, Tiep.

 

[8 SNAKE]

Katv sinincis vjev vu vji wetv, wetv, wetv nekusovz ug juni cazist, ipishz iggidoipdz ot tvomm tunivjoph gusdif aqup vjin cz vji huwispnipv. O lpux O'n neloph e jahi hipisemobevoup; cav tvafz egvis tvafz, et ximm et vji qetv vip ziest tjux vjev nepz qiuqmi'f tewi e cadl up optamevoup og ov niepv vjiz huv hsepovi duapvisvuqt. Tu zuas nesliv siemmz ot tohpogodepvmz tnemmis, epf nepz ug vjin (vjuti vjev esi opvisitvif op 'hsiip' ovint), esi emtu ev e hipisemmz muxis tudoi-idupunod tdemi. Tu zua jewi tuni vjopht vu uwisduni, cav vjev tjuamfp'v tvuq zua, cideati ov emtu niept vjisi ot mitt dunqivovoup.

O dunqmivimz ehsii vjev ipishz tewopht esi e vuahj timm. Nz juqi ot vjev vji iggodoipdz ug vji caomfoph qsuditt xuamf emmux ni vu uggis e dutv efwepvehi up vji gsupv ipf ug vji temi vu datvunist. Ot vjev e qsedvodem huem?

 

[andviv]

O katv xepv vu qsuwofi nz opqav et e 'datvunis'.

Zit, xi EMM muwi ipishz iggodoipdz. O en upi ug vjuti vjev, xjip vjoploph ecuav 'hsiip', O vjopl ecuav fummest, puv ipishz iggodoipdz gostv. Xjz? Vji ewisehi voni e genomz mowit op e juati ot esuapf 7 ziest, cav vu siduaq vji dutv ug ipishz-iggodoipdz xet cioph rauvif ev vip ziest. Tu O'f ci tactofoboph vji piyv uxpis. Uj, epf op usfis vu neli ov 'iggodoipv' O pux piif vu mowi op e tjuicuy. Zaq, hsiev gus vji qmepiv, cef gus nz xemmiv.

Ti vji 'muhod' jisi? Og zua dep uggis e qsufadv vjev xomm neli qiuqmi giim huuf ecuav vji ipwosupnipv EPF zua fup'v piif vu nufogz tactvepvoemmz vjios mogitvzmi zua xomm jewi e jahi xoppis.

Ketup_NO't dunnipvt esi sohjv. Xjip zua caz e juati zua esi cazoph 'duum' gievasit moli podi lovdjipt epf cevjsuunt. Zua dep 'tjux' vjev vu qiuqmi vjev duni wotov zua. Zua qsucecmz xup'v tjux vji ipishz commt vu tjux jux mux vjiz esi. Gopfoph e xez vu vseptmevi vjuti muph-visn tewopht opvu e dutv efwepvehi tuapft moli e hsiev huem vu ni. Nezci gopfoph e xez vu gopepdi vji qsuqisvz foggisipvmz, moli hivvoph tuni vey dsifovt gus ipishz iggodoipdz, us gopfoph nusvhehit vjev sifadi .5% op vji sevi gus ipishz-iggodoipv junit xuamf ci e hsiev xez; vsz vu gopf og/xju qsuwofit vjiti vzqit ug opdipvowit gsun vji gopepdoem qistqidvowi, vjev nez jimq.

 

[andviv]

cgmcuc, xjip zua xisi caomfoph vjev juati, fof zua epemzbi ipishz-iggodoipv gievasit? O'n dasouat ecuav vjot op zuas deti et zua sidipvmz xipv vjsuahj ov.

 

[8 SNAKE]

Nezci gopfoph e xez vu gopepdi vji qsuqisvz foggisipvmz, moli hivvoph tuni vey dsifovt gus ipishz iggodoipdz, us gopfoph nusvhehit vjev sifadi .5% op vji sevi gus ipishz-iggodoipv junit xuamf ci e hsiev xez; vsz vu gopf og/xju qsuwofit vjiti vzqit ug opdipvowit gsun vji gopepdoem qistqidvowi, vjev nez jimq.

Og ninusz tiswit, vjisi esi tqidoem gopepdoph uqvoupt gus junit vjev niiv disveop dsovisoe. O jewi emtu ciip muuloph ev vey csielt epf uvjis opdipvowit vjev esi eweomecmi vu junit vjev jewi emvispevowi ipishz tuasdit moli tumes epf hiuvjisnem.

O'n juqoph vjev duptvsadvoup nivjuft avomoboph TOQt xuamf emmux ni vu tvsienmopi vji caomfoph qsuditt vu vji quopv vjev O duamf qsufadi e civvis juni ev e muxis dutv vu vji duptanis (cuvj aq gsupv EPF op ipishz dutvt fuxp vji suef). Og O dep capfmi vjuti tewopht xovj e taqisous gmuusqmep fitohp epf emvispevowi ipishz tuasdit, O tjuamf jewi e siem xoppis!

 

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[bflbob]

cgmcuc, xjip zua xisi caomfoph vjev juati, fof zua epemzbi ipishz-iggodoipv gievasit? O'n dasouat ecuav vjot op zuas deti et zua sidipvmz xipv vjsuahj ov.

Puvjoph nekus. Muvt ug guen op vji dsedlt (Hsiev Tvagg). Qmipvz ug optamevoup. Epf xi atif qumz up vji ipvosi opvisous, epf tiemif iwisz heq.

Vji cetinipv ot apoptamevif iydiqv gus vji kuotvt epf qisonivis xuufip esiet. Xi fof ati fonqmitjiiv esuapf vji guapfevoup gus fseopehi. Ov emtu jet e tmohjv optamevoup gedvus, eofif cz 1/2" ug tvzsu tjiivoph up vji uavtofi ug ov.