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Progress Log: Investing for Passive Income

WJK

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@WJK Thanks man, but the dividends only make up a small portion of the portfolio's total return. The portfolio has also gained about $12,000 this year due to capital appreciation alone. The reason I don't pay much attention to this number is that I don't intend to sell my shares, so the capital appreciation is kind of irrelevant to me. It's the actual dividend income that I will be using to help fund my lifestyle in the future.
The thing that scares me about stocks and bonds is my lack of control. It's too much like gambling for me.
 
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Colton

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The thing that scares me about stocks and bonds is my lack of control. It's too much like gambling for me.
Hey, you might be right.
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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Hey, you might be right.
The thing that bothers me about stocks and bonds at my age (and I do own a good amount of stocks) is that it takes decades and decades for it to be worth anything.

I've really used my stock investments as a kind of secondary bank account that grows and that I can tap if I need to for better opportunities.

That being said, cash is king when it comes to doing business or seizing new opportunities, whether a new investment, a real estate deal, or a business move.
 

Colton

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The thing that bothers me about stocks and bonds at my age (and I do own a good amount of stocks) is that it takes decades and decades for it to be worth anything.

I've really used my stock investments as a kind of secondary bank account that grows and that I can tap if I need to for better opportunities.

That being said, cash is king when it comes to doing business or seizing new opportunities, whether a new investment, a real estate deal, or a business move.
I certainly hope that it won't take decades and decades for the portfolio to be worth anything, but I guess we shall see. Personally, if I could get this thing to the point where the dividend income is covering my rent, I would consider that to be extremely valuable.
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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I certainly hope that it won't take decades and decades for the portfolio to be worth anything, but I guess we shall see. Personally, if I could get this thing to the point where the dividend income is covering my rent, I would consider that to be extremely valuable.
That is valuable; it's just the slowlane method and goes against everything in both books!

There are much faster ways to do what you are seeking. But, this way will work too.
 

Colton

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That is valuable; it's just the slowlane method and goes against everything in both books!

There are much faster ways to do what you are seeking. But, this way will work too.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but my takeaway from MJ’s books wasn’t that investing in the stock market is a bad thing, but rather that it’s not a reliable method to achieve wealth at a young age. To that point, if you check out my most recent update you’ll see that I’m still working on the entrepreneurial end of things too. So I don’t think I am going against everything in both books.

I started this thread to focus more on my investments than on business, so that might have given the impression that I think investing is more important or that I'm against being an entrepreneur.

In my view, it just makes more sense to start investing young and still be working to try and start/grow a business rather than exclusively doing one or the other, but I’ll admit I could be wrong and time will be the judge of whether this was a good call.
 

ericaung

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but my takeaway from MJ’s books wasn’t that investing in the stock market is a bad thing, but rather that it’s not a reliable method to achieve wealth at a young age. To that point, if you check out my most recent update you’ll see that I’m still working on the entrepreneurial end of things too. So I don’t think I am going against everything in both books.

I started this thread to focus more on my investments than on business, so that might have given the impression that I think investing is more important or that I'm against being an entrepreneur.

In my view, it just makes more sense to start investing young and still be working to try and start/grow a business rather than exclusively doing one or the other, but I’ll admit I could be wrong and time will be the judge of whether this was a good call.
start investing earlier and business are the best things to do in 20s. I don't think investing in the stock market is a bad thing.

Btw, you should invest in stable coins like USDC/USDT and park it into Block-Fi or Crypto.com interest accounts. It is also the other way of passive income too. My two cents here is there is still risk of losing money there...but its very rare. so just invest not too much
 
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Colton

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End of September Update

We saw a bit of a pullback in the market this month, and subsequently the portfolio value is sitting at about $95k.

However, the dividend income has grown to $310 per month. One of the nice things about dividend investing is that the dividends tend to move independently of short term market price fluctuations.

Key purchases this month were into CLX, XYLD, VICI, and BMY. I didn't contribute as much money into the fund this month as I normally would have. I actually spent a lot of money on new clothes this month but I am happy about this.

Business-wise, I am planning out and working on a new idea which I believe will provide me with a nice source of location independent income. It involves learning and marketing a new skill that will be also beneficial to my personal life and existing ecommerce business.

I have tried experimenting with a new product for my existing ecommerce business as well, but we'll se how that one turns out. Business income overall was a bit lower this month, likely due to the seasonal nature of the gardening niche.

That's all for this month, thanks guys.

@ericaung
Thanks, I've skimmed the topic of stablecoins but don't own any yet. They are interesting, but one the things that stuck out to me is that the high yields currently offered on them are expected to decline in the future depending on who you ask. Definitely something to look into more. I do own a little crypto through and am receiving interest payments on that.
 

ericaung

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End of September Update

We saw a bit of a pullback in the market this month, and subsequently the portfolio value is sitting at about $95k.

However, the dividend income has grown to $310 per month. One of the nice things about dividend investing is that the dividends tend to move independently of short term market price fluctuations.

Key purchases this month were into CLX, XYLD, VICI, and BMY. I didn't contribute as much money into the fund this month as I normally would have. I actually spent a lot of money on new clothes this month but I am happy about this.

Business-wise, I am planning out and working on a new idea which I believe will provide me with a nice source of location independent income. It involves learning and marketing a new skill that will be also beneficial to my personal life and existing ecommerce business.

I have tried experimenting with a new product for my existing ecommerce business as well, but we'll se how that one turns out. Business income overall was a bit lower this month, likely due to the seasonal nature of the gardening niche.

That's all for this month, thanks guys.

@ericaung
Thanks, I've skimmed the topic of stablecoins but don't own any yet. They are interesting, but one the things that stuck out to me is that the high yields currently offered on them are expected to decline in the future depending on who you ask. Definitely something to look into more. I do own a little crypto through and am receiving interest payments on that.
Yes, they are expected to decline in the future. However, there are many crypto platforms nowadays. U can easily switch to high yields of any platform. Also, nothing to lose at atll. USDC coin is always will be 1:1 to US currency.
 

FierceRacoon

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You do not have to be active with options, trade a wheel strategy - if you own 100 shares, place a covered call above your cost basis price (in case you get assigned you will be sold out for a profit) and then you can forget it. It will either expire worthless and you rinse and repeat it, or it will expire in the money and sell your 100 shares of the stock. In that case place at the money or slightly in the money put trade and again forget it - it will either expire worthless (then rinse and repeat) or you get assigned and buy back 100 shares of the stock. You will do this once a month only so it is not much active trading at all. And it significantly boosts your income (I roll calls and puts to avoid assignments so I collect dividends and premiums but if I get assigned it is not an end of the world to me - you can also use the options against a portion of your holdings).

Here is a picture of what options do to my portfolio income (on top of the dividends):
View attachment 38765

This is an amazingly clear explanation.
My interpretation is that it is betting on volatility: hoping that the stock will be fluctuating up and down. If it were to keep increasing then this strategy would lose money by selling, then buying back at a higher price.
 
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WJK

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This is an interesting thread to me. I too chase passive income -- not in the stock market. I do it through buying privately owned real estate trust deeds and notes at a discounted price. I too am trying to balance my business income with passive income for the long haul. It's a lot of work to find these deals, but, it sure is fun when I do.
 

Martzee

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This is an amazingly clear explanation.
My interpretation is that it is betting on volatility: hoping that the stock will be fluctuating up and down. If it were to keep increasing then this strategy would lose money by selling, then buying back at a higher price.
When doing this strategy you need to make sure you do not fall in love with your stock and be willing to buy or selling it as needed.

Also, you can skew your strikes depending on the market to offset the volatility issue. If the stock is mostly rallying, try to place your calls as high as possible, and your puts as close to the price as possible. In a down-trending market or stock, place your puts as far away as possible and your calls as close as possible (but still above your cost basis).

When selling the individual options, try to sell to collect at least 1% premium, meaning, that if a stock trades at $40 a share, you want at least 0.40 premium when selling puts or calls.

If the market is tanking and you need protection for your 100 shares, move the calls deep in the money. For example, the stock is trading at $40 a share but it was in a downward moving spiral and you are afraid that it will be going further down. You roll your calls from $45 down to $35 strikes. You will receive $5 of the intrinsic value plus the time value left in the contract, let's say 0.20 (total $5.20), The $5 intrinsic value now protects your stock. If the stock drops to $35 a share, you still will see no loss as it will be offset by the call.

There are tons of ways to play with the wheel setup but of course, the best setup is the easiest and simplest one. Avoid trying to predict the market.

As far as your statement on ever-rising stock and the wheel losing money - you need to shift your strikes in a way that you collect more premium than you would eventually lose. So if you let's say buy 100 shares of a stock at $40 and sell a call at $45 and you get called away at $45 and the stock is currently at $49, you then buy at the money or in the money puts (I prefer at the money).

However, the goal is not to get assigned, so I roll rather than let it go. I only let it go when there is no way to roll (or I forget to roll it, which happens more than finding no way out).
 

Colton

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End of October Update

This month, I did not add very much dough to the fund and fell a bit short of my goal. Right now, the fund is sitting at a value of about $98k and producing just over $320 per month in dividend income.

I'm taking some time each day to learn photoshop, with the intention of utilizing it to bolster my income. Business income has been slow for the last couple of months and I think it is likely that this will continue at least through November.
 
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Martzee

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End of October Update

This month, I did not add very much dough to the fund and fell a bit short of my goal. Right now, the fund is sitting at a value of about $98k and producing just over $320 per month in dividend income.

I'm taking some time each day to learn photoshop, with the intention of utilizing it to bolster my income. Business income has been slow for the last couple of months and I think it is likely that this will continue at least through November.
I just rolled my options trades and made a killing. It was the best month ever so far. You do way better on the dividend income. My account is about the same size yet my dividend income is a bit smaller than yours. But wait when your account matures a bit more, it will snowball very fast.
 

Raven S

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They are short-sighted. But if you did it against a stock you like and eventually want to own, and have money for the purchase (most people sell puts and do not have money to cover an assignment and then get burned), then there is no problem at all.

Im so happy to have found at least 2 other dividend investors on these forums =) Greetings from Norway =) To be honest, I would just have loved my stock to go sideways into the sunset, so I could just keep swingtrading it. And when you swingtrade, in something you would kind of like to own anyways, if I "miss", I always have the option of just sitting it out - and pay the 5% on the margin, instead of taking the loss. Im not diversifying my investments into different stocks. I diversify the different ways in wich I make money on my one vessel. So 2/3 of my shares, are what I just call my Core - and I "never" trade with it. Instead, I take up margin on it, and then I use this for swing trading instead. Each and every trade, will have to pay for its own expenses, and I just subtract all the fees before calculating the profit, or loss. Charlie Munger, Warren, Philip a Fisher, and Nickolas Darwas are where I draw most of my inspiration from. And its perhaps somewhat unusual, to not diversify at all. Meaning - Im all in, into one single stock - but when you pay close attention, you see this is what both Charlie and Philip would most likely have done. I feel safer, knowing I did a decent job in making sure this one place isn't falling apart anytime soon - and that if that ever would seem to be the case, I would pay close enough attention to leave it.

Low stress, fun swingtrading, is just perfect for my personality. You would think it would be really "easy" right? But - interestingly, there is always so much new to learn.
Keeps me busy having something meaningful to do.

I really enjoyed the game of singeling out the one place to put all your money too. Like a merciless Squid game, in your portofolio - where only one stock were allowed to remain.

From my point of view I really did not set out with this as a plan though! I was happy playing a game where I alternated swingtrading in 4 different stocks that I had very good faith in. So I would shuffel the money back and forth, and find the flow - where I would take out money near the upper part of a channel of one, and then have another vessel ready where it would be a good time to enter again. A way to keep the downtime to a minimum I guess. All these were "floating high" though - and I would not feel secure getting stuck in one at all. So I much preffer the style I have today, with only one single vessel. I run many individual trades, in the same stock simultaneously. And I know this one place pays good dividends, is currently undervalued, and is well position to benefit from several megatrends currently blooming.

And my "Core" then, was in my Index Funds.
 

Colton

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@Martzee
Yeah man, I've checked out your website and you are absolutely killing it.
A lot of people have said that the snowball effect really starts to pick up once you pass 100k.

@Raven S
Welcome, glad to have another investor on board!
 
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Colton

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@WJK thanks man.

End of November Update

Again, this month was pretty slow in terms of business income.

The fund did jump up to over 100k for awhile, before falling back to just under 99k due to the current volatility in the stock market. We're sitting at a monthly dividend of $330 right now. Recent purchases include JEPI, CLX, and BMY.

Still taking steps and throwing some new darts at the wall to try and boost my online income.
 

Martzee

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@Martzee
Yeah man, I've checked out your website and you are absolutely killing it.
A lot of people have said that the snowball effect really starts to pick up once you pass 100k.
I got clobbered in November. Good on the income side (dividends and options income) but the volatility slammed my net-liq rapidly. I will be counting KIA casualties later tomorrow...
 
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Colton

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DECEMBER/ END OF YEAR UPDATE

The dividend portfolio grew from 99k at the tail end of November to 107k as of now. That's nearly all down to capital appreciation. The dividend payout grew to just over $350 per month, as a result of shifting things around within the portfolio. I'm focusing more on etfs right now, shuffling capital over from some of my individual stocks into VOO, SCHD, and QYLD.

December was another slow month in terms of business revenue... crossing my fingers that things pick up a bit as we head closer to spring (again my business is in the gardening niche) but meanwhile I'm dedicating 4 hours per day toward new projects and trying to boost income. My preference is to focus on location-independent businesses because I've got the travel bug.

Thanks to Martzee, I'm also selling options (wheel method) in a practice portfolio through Think or Swim. Tracking everything in excel to see how things go and I'll compare it to my existing real money portfolio over time.

Happy to report that I reached my goals for 2021 that I had written down at the start of the year. I've got my goals defined for 2022 and I'm ready to go.
 
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Colton

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January 2022 Update

Alright, so we've had some turbulence in the stock market and the fund is sitting at a value of about $106k right now. (Didn't lose as much as the S&P500, which is to be expected as this is a fairly conservative portfolio) I was honestly hoping for a larger correction so I could scoop up some cheap shares, but we'll see, anything can happen.

The monthly dividend income continues it's steady upward march, and this is where we're at as of right now:

2022-01-29.png
 

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Could you start a second ecommerce business that you can invest these funds in?

I'm in a similar position to you. I'm 23, run an ecommerce business and have about $110k net worth. I've been reinvesting the profits but the business has stopped growing. Reinvesting more money doesn't increase the sales or profit anymore. I believe the business has reached it's natural size so now it is a cash cow.

It's tempting to use that money for security and comfort, to set me up for life (on the slowlane). I could put some of it as a deposit on a house mortgage, keep some in the business and put the rest in the stock market. However it is such a slow route to wealth. After inflation, index funds usually grow at about 4% per year. 4%!!! It's hard to get excited about.

So instead I am opening a second ecommerce business. You said you pack orders yourself and I do as well. Therefore I am going to run both businesses from one warehouse, saving costs. As well as the money, I can leverage the experience gained over the last 4 years. I already know what works and what doesn't. I looked for a niche where the products are small in size so they can easily be stored in my current warehouse (no increase in fixed costs). So, cash I have now and the future profits from the first business will go into the 2nd business. Eventually I want to use 3rd party fulfilment for packing orders for both businesses.

If you still want to pursue the stocks then go for it. You've got more than most 25 year olds have and it will make the rest of your life comfortable. However I think you're missing an opportunity to leverage that money using skills you've already learnt. Compounding works not just with money but with experience too! Start small and invest the money in a second business once it shows signs of success, you can calculate risk.
 
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WJK

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Could you start a second ecommerce business that you can invest these funds in?

I'm in a similar position to you. I'm 23, run an ecommerce business and have about $110k net worth. I've been reinvesting the profits but the business has stopped growing. Reinvesting more money doesn't increase the sales or profit anymore. I believe the business has reached it's natural size so now it is a cash cow.

It's tempting to use that money for security and comfort, to set me up for life (on the slowlane). I could put some of it as a deposit on a house mortgage, keep some in the business and put the rest in the stock market. However it is such a slow route to wealth. After inflation, index funds usually grow at about 4% per year. 4%!!! It's hard to get excited about.

So instead I am opening a second ecommerce business. You said you pack orders yourself and I do as well. Therefore I am going to run both businesses from one warehouse, saving costs. As well as the money, I can leverage the experience gained over the last 4 years. I already know what works and what doesn't. I looked for a niche where the products are small in size so they can easily be stored in my current warehouse (no increase in fixed costs). So, cash I have now and the future profits from the first business will go into the 2nd business. Eventually I want to use 3rd party fulfilment for packing orders for both businesses.

If you still want to pursue the stocks then go for it. You've got more than most 25 year olds have and it will make the rest of your life comfortable. However I think you're missing an opportunity to leverage that money using skills you've already learnt. Compounding works not just with money but with experience too! Start small and invest the money in a second business once it shows signs of success, you can calculate risk.
Good for you. Max out your assets!
 

Colton

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Could you start a second ecommerce business that you can invest these funds in?

I'm in a similar position to you. I'm 23, run an ecommerce business and have about $110k net worth. I've been reinvesting the profits but the business has stopped growing. Reinvesting more money doesn't increase the sales or profit anymore. I believe the business has reached it's natural size so now it is a cash cow.

It's tempting to use that money for security and comfort, to set me up for life (on the slowlane). I could put some of it as a deposit on a house mortgage, keep some in the business and put the rest in the stock market. However it is such a slow route to wealth. After inflation, index funds usually grow at about 4% per year. 4%!!! It's hard to get excited about.

So instead I am opening a second ecommerce business. You said you pack orders yourself and I do as well. Therefore I am going to run both businesses from one warehouse, saving costs. As well as the money, I can leverage the experience gained over the last 4 years. I already know what works and what doesn't. I looked for a niche where the products are small in size so they can easily be stored in my current warehouse (no increase in fixed costs). So, cash I have now and the future profits from the first business will go into the 2nd business. Eventually I want to use 3rd party fulfilment for packing orders for both businesses.

If you still want to pursue the stocks then go for it. You've got more than most 25 year olds have and it will make the rest of your life comfortable. However I think you're missing an opportunity to leverage that money using skills you've already learnt. Compounding works not just with money but with experience too! Start small and invest the money in a second business once it shows signs of success, you can calculate risk.
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. And congrats on your success thus far!

Of course I want to get the best return + cash flow on my capital, and although dividend investing is a pretty slow process it's just the best place I've found so far to put my savings. I have not found a business idea that I'd want to invest a lot of money into, which isn't to say it can't be done but rather a reflection on my abilities and risk tolerance.

I am still trying out new ways to make money (adding a new ecommerce product this week) and I just prefer to do this without spending much money if possible. My mindset/experience is that maybe 1 out of 20 ideas will actually be profitable for me. The way I built my ecommerce business was by doing 1 thing per week that could increase my income going forward (usually by creating a new product listing) and I did this without spending any money upfront. That was kind of a turning point for me, learning to test ideas out quickly, one after another, without losing money. The only problem is that I feel I've reached the point of diminishing returns on this business, and finding it challenging to come up with new successful ideas.
 
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Colton

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End of March Update

I forgot to post last month...

As of now we're sitting at a portfolio value of just over $114k and a current (average) monthly dividend distribution of...2022-03-25.png

Really happy with the dividend growth since last time. $400/mo was a landmark goal I set for myself and I plan to focus less on purchasing immediate income going forward, for now. Eyeing SBUX and a couple others with low starting yields but excellent long term outlooks and attractive valuations. This means that the portfolio distribution won't increase as fast in the near term, but there may be more potential for capital appreciation.

Over on the business side, I added a digital product to my store this week and will spend the coming week trying to push it on social media. Current business revenue is coming from physical products and would like to diversify this.
 

Colton

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What trading tools is the investment portfolio?
That's just my brokerage dashboard. No special trading tools. Any of the big-name brokers should have this basic functionality, but if not you can also use Personal Capital.
 

Colton

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End of April Update:

Kind of a turbulent time in the stock market right now, but the portfolio is performing quite well. We're sitting at a valuation of about 116k right now and the dividend income is a little over 400/mo. The ETF's I've bought recently have overall been hammered pretty hard but my individual stock positions (the bulk of the portfolio) are doing better.

That being said I'm also switching gears now and saving up for a large upcoming expense, which means I won't be adding any more fresh capital into the portfolio for quite a while. Any growth that occurs from here on will come from reinvested dividends, dividend raises, and capital appreciation. It'll be interesting to see how this affects things and I may opt to to the portfolio updates less frequently going forward.
 
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