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NOTABLE! On hidden knowledge

Kung Fu Steve

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When I was real young, I did my first Karate tournament.

I was a gold-striped belt (one above white in our system) and I was up against 2 white belt girls.

I *knew* I had it in the bag.

...I took 3rd place.

From that day I was obsessed with being first place. I remember looking for any opportunity to find people who were better than me and train with them. That obsession continued well into my teens (and still runs my life today).

I traveled the country looking for the best martial artists, teachers, and coaches I could find to improve my skills -- I wanted them to teach me everything they knew.

One day when I was doing a particular movement, Sensei comes up to me and says "what the hell are you doing?

I'm practicing this move...

"You're doing it wrong, stupid." (my Sensei was an interesting character :rofl:)

He showed me what was going on and I said "What the hell, I've being doing it this way for 10 years... why didn't anybody tell me??"

"They didn't know."

What do you mean they didn't know!?

"I'm never going to be able to teach you 100% of what I know. My sensei before me didn't teach me 100% of what they knew... and before that... and before that... martial arts has been around for thousands and thousands of years... some stuff just gets lost over time. It gets diluted and it becomes hidden knowledge."

SENSEI! TEACH ME THE HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE!

"There's nothing magical about it, ya fruit cake. And it would take years to correct everything that you think you know."

Without tooting my own horn too much, at that point I was one of the best martial artists in the country. I was a champion many times over -- and I was completely disturbed because I realized how little I actually knew.

Why am I bringing this up?

Because I've noticed on the forum lately many people are posting about their thoughts on this guru or that guru...

They are taking sound bites without context and either claiming it as gospel or heresy.

From someone's work ethic, to strategy, to investment strategy...

I believe we, as a community, need to become obsessed with finding the hidden knowledge.

Shit, how many here actually read The Fastlane to Millions?

No -- I mean REALLY READ it. Where you look for what's being said and what's not being said? Where you really dig in and say "what does this really mean?"

How many have looked for clarity before adopting a belief system that may or may not be accurate?

We have a plethora of "experts" on here lately who claim to know everything there is to know about a certain subject.

If you're the expert (or want to become one) you have to start producing the results.

You have to understand the hidden knowledge that's behind that subject.

What are you doing? WHY are you doing it that way?

Is it because you read it in a book somewhere and now you're regurgitating it? ...or is it because you've tried a few thousand times and realized that you had to tweak things? You have to change and adapt to a new environment because it didn't work exactly as it was laid out in the book.

You can read all the books you want on psychology. You don't know shit until you start doing therapy.

You can read all the books you want on marketing. You don't know shit until you start running ads.

You can read all the books you want on business. You don't know shit until you start running one.

I'll be the first to admit -- I thought I knew psychology studying with big buddy. I knew his material better than he did -- but yet I didn't GET IT (and I'm still working on it every day) until he put me in front of hundreds of thousands of people to go practice my craft. To really understand people. To really get WHY he said some of the things he did.

To walk into a room and own it, whether there's 10 people or 10,000. What problems are going to show up. How to solve those problems before anybody even knew what happened. How to influence people to get out of their own way and do something that's good for them.

It's been an intense study and I hope everyone here with me starts taking their craft seriously and dig in (and SHARE) the hidden knowledge that they find.

I'll do the same.
 

ManlyMansNegator

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learn -> practise -> train -> mastery

These are the essential sectors in a "process" mastery of a skill. At first, you learn through reading a skill, that might be reading on baking. However a proportion of people stop here, sure i can read 100 books on Electromagnetic wave Demodulation, however, have I truly mastered it? NO!

Secondly, you begin practicing countless hours on the subject at hand, the main difference between the resulting steps and this one is that practice is a repeat of the slightly incorrect method. You will try different methods until finally landing on the correct one. This is where most people stop.

After this part, you enter a training mode. This would encompass the repetition of a task semi-perfectly everytime. For instance, weight lifting form can be perfected but continuously increasing the weight is the training aspect of it.

Finally you reach mastery ... and you dont. Mastery is an elusive goal like perfection, instead, you often find a new method to complete a task you trained at. For instance, you move your hands on a weightlifting bar to greatly enhance attack points on the body. Another example is how mathematicians create new theories for the fields of mathematics.

Trying to skip any of these steps is ignorant, without learning you practice incorrectly and get stuck there. You might perfect this "wrong method" and thus train it, although incorrectly. You can also try to reach mastery but it would also flop as you cannot change something for the better you do not understand.

There might be subsets or other sets , so feel free to add.
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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To walk into a room and own it, whether there's 10 people or 10,000. What problems are going to show up. How to solve those problems before anybody even knew what happened. How to influence people to get out of their own way and do something that's good for them.

It's been an intense study and I hope everyone here with me starts taking their craft seriously and dig in (and SHARE) the hidden knowledge that they find.
I just finished writing my Unscripted review (had to do it under my husband's name because I bought the Kindle edition off his account. Aggravating), and one of the reviewers commented about reading the book 3 times because of the different messages that sink in each time. That is a good point.

Since this thread is about knowledge, I will share with y'all a website I learned about yesterday:
www.futurelearn.com
You can search topics that you want to learn about and free courses come up. I searched coding, for example, just to see what would happen, and many university courses came up. Some courses provide more access through a paid upgrade.
 

VIVEKSINGHJADONS

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"I'm never going to be able to teach you 100% of what I know. My sensei before me didn't teach me 100% of what they knew... and before that... and before that... martial arts has been around for thousands and thousands of years... some stuff just gets lost over time. It gets diluted and it becomes hidden knowledge."

Because I've noticed on the forum lately many people are posting about their thoughts on this guru or that guru...

They are taking sound bites without context and either claiming it as gospel or heresy.

From someone's work ethic, to strategy, to investment strategy...

I believe we, as a community, need to become obsessed with finding the hidden knowledge.

sh*t, how many here actually read The Fastlane to Millions?

No -- I mean REALLY READ it. Where you look for what's being said and what's not being said? Where you really dig in and say "what does this really mean?"

How many have looked for clarity before adopting a belief system that may or may not be accurate?
I think people always try to adopt a new belief system without replacing the old which might be contradictory to the new one. Old belief systems were deep-rooted, so most of the times result would be the same - a pursuit of another belief system.
SENSEI! TEACH ME THE HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE!
That's a pretty good thought.
 

VIVEKSINGHJADONS

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You raised a good point.
I think people always try to adopt a new belief system without replacing the old which might be contradictory to the new one. Old belief systems were deep-rooted, so most of the times result would be the same - a pursuit of another belief system.
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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You raised a good point.
I think people always try to adopt a new belief system without replacing the old which might be contradictory to the new one. Old belief systems were deep-rooted, so most of the times result would be the same - a pursuit of another belief system.
The difficulty in replacing old belief systems is one of the reasons why I joined this forum. Everyone I know has a J.O.B. This forum is the best way for me to expand my peer group to include people who think along the lines of how I want to think.

Also, practice, even if incorrect, is still action. Practice is required to reach perfection, which as @MJDeMarco pointed out in Unscripted, is like trying to cut something in half. You can do it infinitely and never reach zero, because even if you get closer to perfection, you can still find something to improve. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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Also, practice, even if incorrect, is still action.
A silly action.

The whole point of my post was to look at what you're missing and fix it :rofl:

Thus "hidden knowledge" :hilarious:
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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A silly action.

The whole point of my post was to look at what you're missing and fix it :rofl:

Thus "hidden knowledge" :hilarious:
I agree with you, @KungFuSteve. In fact, I was thinking of "hidden knowledge" in Unscripted. For me, it was when @MJDeMarco said not to wait for the greatest idea, just to act on the idea you have, and what you said above (sorry, I'm not good yet at quoting multiple threads) about STARTing. I am a perfectionist. That is why I chose this very timely fortune, which I got this past weekend at a Chinese restaurant while visiting my daughter in college, as my profile picture.

Your OP made me think about my interpretation of the Hidden Knowledge: not waiting for perfection, so thank you. I registered a website domain between my posts. My son said, "You haven't finished registering it yet?", because I get caught up in details. It is hard to plunge into action when I don't know anything - the best website host, reading the terms of agreement, etc. It is very easy for me to get caught up in everything I don't know.
 

LightHouse

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I agree with you, @KungFuSteve. In fact, I was thinking of "hidden knowledge" in Unscripted. For me, it was when @MJDeMarco said not to wait for the greatest idea, just to act on the idea you have, and what you said above (sorry, I'm not good yet at quoting multiple threads) about STARTing. I am a perfectionist. That is why I chose this very timely fortune, which I got this past weekend at a Chinese restaurant while visiting my daughter in college, as my profile picture.

Your OP made me think about my interpretation of the Hidden Knowledge: not waiting for perfection, so thank you. I registered a website domain between my posts. My son said, "You haven't finished registering it yet?", because I get caught up in details. It is hard to plunge into action when I don't know anything - the best website host, reading the terms of agreement, etc. It is very easy for me to get caught up in everything I don't know.
"It is hard to plunge into action ...."

"It is very easy for me to get caught up...."

Here are two limiting beliefs you are going to need to replace ASAP in order to get anywhere in this new adventure you are starting.
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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Here are two limiting beliefs you are going to need to replace ASAP in order to get anywhere in this new adventure you are starting.
Nice catch, @LightHouse! I just started a saved note on my phone with my limiting beliefs so I can catch myself when making statements like that. The funny thing is, I didn't even notice. Also I said "It is hard to plunge into action when I don't know anything." Well guess what? It is also hard for me to plunge into action when I know everything. I don't take action, period. I need to change that. The other one, about getting caught up in everything I don't know, reminds me of something I said in another thread: the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. No wonder I don't take action. Good grief. Thank you.
 

LightHouse

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Nice catch, @LightHouse! I just started a saved note on my phone with my limiting beliefs so I can catch myself when making statements like that. The funny thing is, I didn't even notice. Also I said "It is hard to plunge into action when I don't know anything." Well guess what? It is also hard for me to plunge into action when I know everything. I don't take action, period. I need to change that. The other one, about getting caught up in everything I don't know, reminds me of something I said in another thread: the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. No wonder I don't take action. Good grief. Thank you.
You WILL change that Suzanne, like... today. :)

Our words turn into our actions, so help you help yourself by using the words that will force your body to act.

On hosting and domains and all that, the reality is, get whatever you can and get moving. It will all change so fast and you are not going ot break anything. Any host will do, no need to read the TOS. Just get every tool you need and put them together today and tomorrow. That's your new primary focus!
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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On hosting and domains and all that, the reality is, get whatever you can and get moving. It will all change so fast and you are not going ot break anything. Any host will do, no need to read the TOS. Just get every tool you need and put them together today and tomorrow.
Very true, and you are right, no matter what avenue I take, I won't break anything.
 

Suzanne Bazemore

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Well, an incorrect practice can have a negative impact on further development.
Hi @mcglynn78, I had in mind imperfect action, such as in sports or some business deals, like buying a property. You do it, then fix your mistakes, and try to do it better next time. I didn't mean to keep making the same mistakes. I meant that I should take action whether or not I feel like I will pull it off perfectly so that I can learn from my mistakes.
 

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Well, an incorrect practice can have a negative impact on further development.
I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. F*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. f*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
Great freaking example
 

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sh*t, how many here actually read The Fastlane to Millions?
I haven't. It sounds awfully similar to my book, The Millionaire Fastlane. :smuggy:

I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. f*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
Featured post, a great example that practice of the wrong practice can be wrong action.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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I haven't. It sounds awfully similar to my book, The Millionaire Fastlane. :smuggy:



Featured post, a great example that practice of the wrong practice can be wrong action.
I have the top secret original hand-written version :rofl:
 

ZF Lee

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I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. f*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
Ah, embouchure.

I'm sure I wasted the first 2 years as a school trumpet player in that area. Couldn't get up to high G without looking as red as a tomato. Didn't have a formal instructor, so I had to bungle around and find the right sources.

If I had gotten it faster, I would have enjoyed playing way more songs. Perfecting embouchure was like reaching your first million dollars. They say it gets easier to multiply the money after the first million. The same with trumpet. I got to move on to marching songs, Star Wars (mehehehe) and even some bugle songs.

This is a regret from high school, I suppose.

This reminds me of the war horse charge scene in the movie War Horse, in WW1.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PhM2mlMqlQ


Sending horse units to charge down a German encampment. They do well at first, until they run into a nest of machine guns. It was a disastrous tactic all along, as the First World War was all about technology. What a blunder.

See 3.51...somehow the scene sticks with me....

'What? Did you think that a garrison on open ground would go undefended? Look at yourself! Who do you think you are?!!' the German officer screams.

The British cavalry fella surrenders, amidst a failed battle and dead horses and men everywhere.

It was incompetence, or lack of knowledge of the dangers of more developed weaponry,and how sadly obsolete the old horse tactics were.
 
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I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. f*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
I've been playing trombone for about 9 years now and can say pretty much the same thing. There's been many occasions where I've had to retrain myself out of old habits as well.

You aren't alone, and it is completely possible to fix habits.

P.S. If anyone is into playing an instrument and really wants to learn the science of practicing and learning music, I would recommend the book Musical Performance: Learning Theory and Pedagogy by Daniel L. Kohut.
 

amp0193

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You aren't alone, and it is completely possible to fix habits.
Yes, possible, but very difficult, and takes a lot of will power and patience.


One of the best parts of a music education is developing resilience. You chip away a little bit every day on the huge, arduous, task of mastering this instrument. It's not unlike learning how to Business. I'm very thankful for the struggles and trying to work through them as a kid.
 

ZF Lee

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One of the best parts of a music education is developing resilience.
Ah, resilience. Resilience has to be maintained, though. Let's see some things to take note of when playing brass:
1. Keep a good diet, at least before performances. Less carbs or heavy meats. No sugars.

2. Warm ups. Don't just bumble into performance just like that. Quite akin to prepping for exercising.

3. Don't push yourself to play for hours. Take breaks. I was too overzealous during my first years, and at one time, blew my trumpet until I found my lips bleeding....

4. Sleep enough! Once, I f*cked up my embrochure after waking up on the wrong side of my bed, and played worse than Dumbo on vodka. For a public performance too, shame.

I think alternatively, a dance education is great as well. I'm not a dancer, but my girl took ballet lessons in primary and high school. Gave her a very good figure, and lethargy or fatigue is not something I would find her to be suffering from. I think it also taught her a great deal of patience, to keep up with me complaining a lot, even back in the old days hahaha.
 

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I played french horn for 12 years. Practiced all the damn time, much more than most. Never achieved any of my goals.

Sure, I was best in my school, whoop-de-doo, but I wanted to be best in the state.

In year 9 a college TA pointed out that I had been doing X wrong with my embouchure, and that it physically limited me from progressing. That's how I had played since the beginning, never thought anything of it. No amount of practice would change the fact that I was just doing it wrong. When I made the change, I literally started from 0 again, because I had to re-train my entire face how to play. It took a year of incredible frustration to get back to my previous ability, with the new muscular set-up.

In year 11, a college professor showed me one trick, in 5 min, that unlocked my ability to play notes in the high range I had been trying unsuccessfully to play for 11 years. It was like, "oh, so that's how you do it.. f*ck."

And then I realized I had basically wasted 11 years, and had no hope of playing professionally, because all of my competition had figured this out a decade before me.
Great story.
But for me the lesson to be learned goes much deeper than that. You and @Kung Fu Steve both brought out the idea of hidden knowledge that took years to uncover. That's whats so perplexing.

Why does it seem to always take so long to ultimately uncover those gems of knowledge?

One of the greatest gems of knowledge that usually remains hidden to most of us neophytes is that we don''t have the wisdom to know who or where we are to uncover this hidden knowledge from.

I traveled the country looking for the best martial artists, teachers, and coaches I could find to improve my skills -- I wanted them to teach me everything
they knew.
The perplexing problem to me is that 95% of the so-called teachers (trainers, sensei, gurus, mentors, etc) are just mediocre at best, in my opinion.

They really don't know the 'hidden knowledge' themselves, and that is why most 'teachers' are mediocre, and the first step to gaining hidden knowledge yourself is to only seek out only the best 'teachers'. Those that have a 'gift of knowledge' and can instruct you in those areas where one is still blind.

Why did it take @amp0193 years what he learned in 5 minutes the reason he couldn't hit the high notes?
Why did @Kung Fu Steve have to travel all over the country to finally learn that certain moves he had been practicing for years were incorrectly done?

Because most teachers can't do it themselves!

Perhaps the biggest lesson to be learned is to make sure your learning from only the best.

How does one know if they don't know what they don't know, who are the best teachers to teach them what they don't know?

Now that is really hidden knowledge!

"Incompetence plus incompetence equals incompetence"
and...
"a man doesn't know what he knows until he knows what he doesn't know"
Lawrence J. Peter
author of The Peter Principle
 

amp0193

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is that we don''t have the wisdom to know who or where we are to uncover this hidden knowledge from.
It could be said about my story, that it was only because of the work and time that I put in (doing it wrong), that I was even able to get facetime with this professor. He only taught the rockstars, and by his grace, I got in with him for a semester.

When you try doing it wrong for long enough... the hidden gems stand out way more when you do see them.

To get access, you have to show that you've done the work.


The perplexing problem to me is that 95% of the so-called teachers (trainers, sensei, gurus, mentors, etc) are just mediocre at best, in my opinion.
The blind leading the blind. If you want to be average, studying with any old teacher will do.


Because most teachers can't do it themselves!
This can definitely be the case. Being able to Do, and being able to teach someone else to Do, isn't always the same though. To effective teach is a whole separate skill in and of itself.

The best teachers are the ones that can both execute themselves at the highest level, and have the ability to tailor these secrets to the individuals in front of them in a way that they truly understand.


Perhaps the biggest lesson to be learned is to make sure your learning from only the best.
Yes. I think that's the takeaway here.
 

MooreMillions

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Aug 16, 2008
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fentrissmoore.voice123.com
I just finished writing my Unscripted review (had to do it under my husband's name because I bought the Kindle edition off his account. Aggravating), and one of the reviewers commented about reading the book 3 times because of the different messages that sink in each time. That is a good point.

Since this thread is about knowledge, I will share with y'all a website I learned about yesterday:
www.futurelearn.com
You can search topics that you want to learn about and free courses come up. I searched coding, for example, just to see what would happen, and many university courses came up. Some courses provide more access through a paid upgrade.
First off, kudos on proactively looking for challenges in your development and accepting advice on ways to go about correcting them.

And, when harnessed properly, MOOC's when used properly, could crumble the current "for profit" college based system, permanently.

I have learned: "the internet is yoir friend."

Continue to push...it's worth more than you can imagine.
 

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