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katalyzt

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Jan 8, 2008
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I was reading the thread started by Russ that is titled $3k to $1m in a year. It's a very good thread and inspired me to post my plan and see what you guys think. In Russ's thread he made the challenge to make a plan with a few restrictions such as you only have $3k to start, you're only 17 yrs old, etc. My situation is a little different... I'm 22 but I have $0 starting capital, actually hold on... I have $281 :cool:, and I have a full time job. But I'm accepting Russ's challenge as my own none the less. I have one year... Hear it goes...

1. Eductate myself on flipping/investing real estate. (I feel I have done enough to get started) This will obviously be an on going process.
2. Get credit to 720. I currently have a company working on my credit and it looks like I'm 2 months away from 720. Initial sign-up cost $99 and then $75 every two weeks after that.
3. While waiting on better credit... Find some motivated sellers (newspaper ads, drive byes) negotiate a deal and sell the contract to rehab investors (find them in the newspaper as well) for some quick cash.
4. When the credit score reaches 720 I will have a couple options. The idea I'm leaning toward right now is find a nice property with a motivated seller and get it with about 20%-30% equity. If I can't get it with that equity existing I will create it using the cash I have been saving up from flipping contracts.
5. I will take a HELOC out on closing and re-invest the cash (must be at least 50k) with a company I know of for an 8%-9% monthly return. That monthly return will pay the mortgage on the property and put a little cash flow into my pocket.
6. Then with the property I do a Lease Option to Buy for some more passive income.
7. Then repeat the process with more properties


I probably got some of the terminology wrong in there but regardless I think it's a good plan. What do you guys think? Thoughts, Suggestions?

Financial Freedom 2008 here I come!
 

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Redshft

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Nov 5, 2007
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2. Get credit to 720. I currently have a company working on my credit and it looks like I'm 2 months away from 720. Initial sign-up cost $99 and then $75 every two weeks after that.
Exactly what kind of company is "working" on YOUR credit?? This would worry me as I feel I am the only one who can fix my credit and I am the only one responsible for my score. There are plenty of small things you can do to build your credit. Take your credit card and use it like a debit card. Make a purchase, then immediately pay it off with the cash you would have used.

You don't necessarily have to have a 720 credit score to get a good loan, anywhere in 600 is good and maybe even high 500. BUT, at your age you may be facing a bigger problem. Your history is not long enough. You can have a perfect score, but if its only from borrowing 1-2K over the past year or two, then you might as well have a poor score cause you won't get approved by your average lender.

I think you are better off trying to find a partner's credit to use and take that extra money your wasting to this "company" and use it to build your own credit.
 

rzach41

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Oct 23, 2007
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Nice post!

My man, why not rinse wash and repeat step 3 until you raise enough cash for a down payment. #3 requires none of your own money or credit. Why do it only once?
 

JScott

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5. I will take a HELOC out on closing and re-invest the cash (must be at least 50k) with a company I know of for an 8%-9% monthly return. That monthly return will pay the mortgage on the property and put a little cash flow into my pocket.
Exactly what type of company returns 8-9% monthly? Either this is an extremely high risk investment, a fraudulent investment, or both.

If you can really get that kind of return without tremendous risk, I would suggest just putting all your money in there... :)
 
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katalyzt

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Jan 8, 2008
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Exactly what kind of company is "working" on YOUR credit?? This would worry me as I feel I am the only one who can fix my credit and I am the only one responsible for my score. There are plenty of small things you can do to build your credit. Take your credit card and use it like a debit card. Make a purchase, then immediately pay it off with the cash you would have used.

You don't necessarily have to have a 720 credit score to get a good loan, anywhere in 600 is good and maybe even high 500. BUT, at your age you may be facing a bigger problem. Your history is not long enough. You can have a perfect score, but if its only from borrowing 1-2K over the past year or two, then you might as well have a poor score cause you won't get approved by your average lender.

I think you are better off trying to find a partner's credit to use and take that extra money your wasting to this "company" and use it to build your own credit.
http://www.lexingtonlaw.com/lp/credit-repair.02.html?tid=50.0.Branded9EX&wm_lpID=1983123&wm_ctID=11&wm_kwID=2177108&wm_mtID=3&wm_content=0&wm_g_crID=1007339169&wm_g_kw=lexington law&wm_g_pcmt=&wm_g_cnt=0&gclid=CK_Uvd3Nj5ECFQh6gwodXzcOFQ&wm_defaultURL=http://www.lexingtonlaw.com/lp/credit-repair.02.html?tid=50.0.Branded9EX

I'm aware that I'm solely responsible for my credit but I have a full time job so I don't have time to dispute everything on my credit. But no worries I'm not sitting idly by either. I have a credit card that I've started to use as a debit card, and I'm open to any other credit improvement ideas as well.

JScott said:
Exactly what type of company returns 8-9% monthly? Either this is an extremely high risk investment, a fraudulent investment, or both.

If you can really get that kind of return without tremendous risk, I would suggest just putting all your money in there... :)
http://www.myinvestingplace.com

The company offers several different types of investment, one of which is cash equity. I don't know the exact details (guess I better figure them out :smxB:) because I don't have the 50k required to put in.

Depending on how the first 50k in there pans out I'm sure I'll put more in. I also know a guy doing a similar thing with 3%-5% monthly return, but requires a 2 year commitment.

rzach41 said:
My man, why not rinse wash and repeat step 3 until you raise enough cash for a down payment. #3 requires none of your own money or credit. Why do it only once?
That's the idea actually :coolgleamA:. Sorry I didn't express that clearly.

Anyway... Thanks for the responses and questions. They help me stay motivated and figure out all the details to my plan.
 

hakrjak

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Buy the book "credit repair to credit millionaire" -- and that should get your credit straightened out for about $20 bucks total.

Re: Flipping contracts -- A lot of people talk about it, but I still haven't met anyone who's ever done it, or definitely not anybody who's made a solid business of doing it. Agents can sniff you out, and if they feel like you're not a serious buyer -- they won't want to do business with you. In order to get the properties under contract, you're going to have to put up earnest money and get pre-approved for financing -- So what's your backup plan if you're unable to flip these contracts? You'll have to close on the property or walk away and lose your money. Don't believe the stuff you read about sticking "out clauses" into the contract, i.e. "Subject to my partners approval", etc... They will red flag you as a scammer with the selling agent, and they won't even answer your bids usually.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak
 

rzach41

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Oct 23, 2007
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"Re: Flipping contracts -- A lot of people talk about it, but I still haven't met anyone who's ever done it, or definitely not anybody who's made a solid business of doing it."

Yeah ok buddy, thats a real logical reason to assume wholesaling doesnt work!

Listen, Wholesaling works. My mentor makes a living out of wholesaling. Through my real estate investment club I have also met numerous different investors who also make a living out of it. Anybody here who is part of a real estate investment club undoubtedly knows people who make a living out of doing it.

"Agents can sniff you out, and if they feel like you're not a serious buyer -- they won't want to do business with you."

Don't go through an agent. Through proper advertising you can make the motivated sellers come to YOU. Negotiate with them


"In order to get the properties under contract, you're going to have to put up earnest money and get pre-approved for financing "

Securing properties under contract can be done for as little as $10. Um, who do you need to get pre-approved for financing from? As far as I know, the only time you need to show proof of income is when you are dealing with lenders. Sell your deal to investors who use private lending aka cash buyers (you bypass the need to go through banks this way)

"So what's your backup plan if you're unable to flip these contracts? You'll have to close on the property or walk away and lose your money."

Clauses in your contract. With the proper clauses the most you can lose is your "earnest deposit" of $10! Gee, such significant consequences!

"Don't believe the stuff you read about sticking "out clauses" into the contract, i.e. "Subject to my partners approval", etc... They will red flag you as a scammer with the selling agent, and they won't even answer your bids usually."

Once again negotiate with the motivated seller.

The key to the deal is figuring out the proper after repair value + maximum allowable offer. If you do those two things correctly (ie leave enough in the pot for the rehabber/retailer whom you sell to) you should have no problem successfully wholesaling a property.
 

PEERless

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Jan 23, 2008
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2. Get credit to 720. I currently have a company working on my credit and it looks like I'm 2 months away from 720. Initial sign-up cost $99 and then $75 every two weeks after that.
This sounds like a LOT of money to be pouring into something you can do on your own down-time. Do they guarantee a specific score within a certain timeframe? Talk about great systems to make money! Let's all start websites that cost their members $1950 per year! Re think this expense, Katalyzt.

...also looks fishy to me for some reason. Can someone else weigh in on this one?
 
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andviv

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Listen, Wholesaling works. My mentor makes a living out of wholesaling. Through my real estate investment club I have also met numerous different investors who also make a living out of it. Anybody here who is part of a real estate investment club undoubtedly knows people who make a living out of doing it.
I do know it works (I've bought from wholesalers before... they buy at 60% FMv and offer to me at 65%, 70% FMV so we both win).

I'd love to hear more about what your mentor and others are doing in regards to wholesaling.

What cities/areas are they doing it? what FMVs are they usually buying at? what techniques do they use to get leads and to market the properties once they get the contracts?

katalyzt, sorry to kind of hijack your thread, but I think this is important for your plan.
 

Redshft

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Nov 5, 2007
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Greenville, NC
...also looks fishy to me for some reason. Can someone else weigh in on this one?
Looks VERY fishy to me. Just a pretty website with no details on their services. No testimonials(as if online testimonials how much credit anyway), projects are just pictures of random properties with stats on each. They say they do all the research for you, even make payments for all of 2008??? Seriously, there has to be a catch somewhere.

The website is very vague in general, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
 

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katalyzt

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Jan 8, 2008
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Salt Lake City, Utah
"Buy the book "credit repair to credit millionaire" -- and that should get your credit straightened out for about $20 bucks total."

Thanks for the suggestion. I've also been referred to another book "7 steps to 720" so I'll see what kind of information they have.

"This sounds like a LOT of money to be pouring into something you can do on your own down-time. Do they guarantee a specific score within a certain timeframe? Talk about great systems to make money! Let's all start websites that cost their members $1950 per year! Re think this expense, Katalyzt."

They guarantee at least a 100 point increase in 3 months. And 3 months is also the general length of time they'll work on your credit (after that they really aren't able to do much and you just need to maintain good credit and do better from there on out). I'm convinced though, I'll get the books and see if I can get it all done myself. Good thing is that I can cancel their service anytime without penalty.

"Looks VERY fishy to me. Just a pretty website with no details on their services. No testimonials(as if online testimonials how much credit anyway), projects are just pictures of random properties with stats on each. They say they do all the research for you, even make payments for all of 2008??? Seriously, there has to be a catch somewhere.

The website is very vague in general, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions."

Again, I agree it does look very fishy and it had me skeptical for awhile (I was referred by a friend). But I've been to several of there meetings and talked to them personally and I assure you they're legit. Their website does look a bit on the scammer side but if you're a member and actually log in there's a lot more information there, especially in the projects area. And then finally I also know people personally who have invested with them and are very pleased with their results.

Well I'm off to Amazon to get some books :thumbsup: Thanks for the help so far
 

Luke12321

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Why go buy books if these guys are going to fix your credit? Just let them fix it...you have already thrown the money at them, might as well see if what they are actually doing is going to work. The books and research should of came before throwing the money into this company. I guess reading a book now though will help you in the future after it is fixed? Hope it all works out for you!
 

hakrjak

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Sep 15, 2007
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Hey I was just trying to give the guy some realistic expectations from someone who has 8 years of real estate investment here in the real world. Sorry if I was raining on your "pie in the sky" parade of "no money down", and flipping contracts ;) LOL.. Reminds me of where my mind was after I read my first real estate book back in 1999!

Yeh, sure you can take out "We buy houses!" ads, and compete with the hundreds of other newbies in your town who are fresh out of real estate seminars putting in 60 hour weeks trying to get people to deed you their homes... And when you lock up a seller into one of your bogus contracts with no earnest money, and all these scammer "out clauses" -- you'll see just how well one of those contracts stands up in a court of law, or even in the court of public reality. When your reputation is trashed because you've walked away from some deals via your "out" clauses, nobody will want to work with you in the future.

I'm sure some have to learn for themselves though ;) Let us know how it works out.

- Hakrjak
 
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katalyzt

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Jan 8, 2008
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Hey I was just trying to give the guy some realistic expectations from someone who has 8 years of real estate investment here in the real world. Sorry if I was raining on your "pie in the sky" parade of "no money down", and flipping contracts ;) LOL.. Reminds me of where my mind was after I read my first real estate book back in 1999!

Yeh, sure you can take out "We buy houses!" ads, and compete with the hundreds of other newbies in your town who are fresh out of real estate seminars putting in 60 hour weeks trying to get people to deed you their homes... And when you lock up a seller into one of your bogus contracts with no earnest money, and all these scammer "out clauses" -- you'll see just how well one of those contracts stands up in a court of law, or even in the court of public reality. When your reputation is trashed because you've walked away from some deals via your "out" clauses, nobody will want to work with you in the future.

I'm sure some have to learn for themselves though ;) Let us know how it works out.

- Hakrjak
Well that all sounds awfully negative but I'll bite... Any positive feedback? Maybe a suggestion or two of a better approach, or at least a nudge in the right direction? I appreciate the feedback and criticism, but it doesn't do me much good if it's all a bunch of nay saying with no possible alternatives presented.

Anybody else have a take on this? Is it really that bad of an idea and unethical? Has anybody flipped contracts themselves successfully?

thanks again in advance
 

rzach41

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Oct 23, 2007
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Maybe your specific geographic location is flooded with RE investors who are snatching up all the deals... I doubt thats the case, but even if it is thats YOUR market, not necessarily others. There is always going to be competition wherever you are, but don't let that be the reason why you give up on something. Am I confused about putting certain clauses in your contract that limit your risk? If you back out of a deal due to a "subject to inspection" or something else of that nature, a clause that was in your contract and signed by the seller, how can you be in trouble by the law? If you dont go through MLS, then your only dealing with that specific seller right? How is your business reputation at stake here. Maybe I am wrong, I very well could be. I'm just confused as to why you are so negative about wholesaling in general.
 

hakrjak

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I very well could be. I'm just confused as to why you are so negative about wholesaling in general.
Hey it's just my take... Based on nothing but pure experience in the industry. Try it, and see how it works for you. My experience is that to make money in this business you have to come down to Earth and plant your feet firmly on the ground. The more you get caught up with the whole "No money down crowd" and "Make money with no money" -- the further you get from establishing the real world contacts and experiences you'll need to be successful in the real estate business. My suggestions are:

#1). If you don't have good credit, get it as soon as possible. This is your most important asset in this business.

#2). Save money, and be prepared to put down 10% on any properties you are interested in buying. Cash is king -- and is your 2nd most important asset in the real estate business.

#3). Be self reliant. There are too many people in this business that will screw you, beg borrow or rob from you. You need to make your own success, and not depend on anyone else in the long run.

#4). To raise capital, flipping houses still works better than most things (Play Cashflow a lot). Use your savings for the down payment, and use credit cards or whatever you have to pay for the rehab -- but be darn sure of your outcome before you start. 1 bad flip can terminate your real estate business.

#5). Re-invest your earnings in buy & hold cashflowing rentals. Once you've held these for awhile, you can dump them if you so choose -- paying less taxes, and you'll have enjoyed cashflow while you've had them. If you can sell into a good market and make massive profits then proceed to step 6...

#6). Exit residential, and jump into commercial. By selling your residential and pocketing the profits, you should have ample funds to buy into a large apartment complex where your per unit returns will greatly increase your overall net earnings.

#7). Retire, enjoy life.

I must add that I'm currently between steps 5 and 6 right now, and I've gotten there in 8 years because I made a lot of mistakes along the way, and had to "learn things for myself" like a lot of people do. I expect someone could get there in 5 years if they really applied themselves and listened to good advice from people who "do" -- not people who sell books or theorize.

Cheers,

Hakrjak

- Hakrjak
 

andviv

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Hakrjak, your comments just made me value even more the mentor I have. It has made a difference in orders of magnitude in what I believe I can accomplish as I know these things are possible. My mentor did it in three years (yes, three years) and he was out of the rat race and went from mid-size deals into multi million dollar deals. That is the type of inspiration and model to follow, at least for me.
 

PEERless

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I'm hearing words like "Cashflow" and "rat race," and I'm betting some people here are familiar with Rich Dad, Poor Dad?
 

bigmako

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Jan 25, 2008
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:nono::nono:RE: Flipping Properties

I am here to say I have the materials from "Russ" and after putting an earnest effort into his program; needless to sat it is somewhat bogus!

You will continually get phone calls, emails, whatever trying to get you to loosen your purse strings and "better" yourself with their "successful" teachings!

As the old saying goes, "If you have the cash (and lots of it to throw away), I have the time.

Just be money conscious!:nono:
 

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kimberland

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:nono::nono:RE: Flipping Properties

I am here to say I have the materials from "Russ" and after putting an earnest effort into his program; needless to sat it is somewhat bogus!
Please define "an earnest effort."
Months? Years?
Thousands of dollars?

Also define "somewhat bogus."
Didn't work the first time?
Didn't work the hundredth time?

'Cause Russ has a history of results
so I'm finding it interesting that his reco's aren't working.
 

andviv

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bigmako, let me ask, what "Russ" are you talking about? Russ Whitney?

There are lots of people making money in flips. It may not be as easy as three years ago, but it is working for many people. A fellow investor here in my area is making money like crazy by doing a combination of flipping/rehabbing. Yeah, the same thing that many say does not work. Go figure. And no, I am not say that Russ Whitney's programs work or not, I haven't use them.
 

bigmako

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Jan 25, 2008
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From my experience, it IS Russ Whitney!
Please don't take this the wrong way. I have read the whole bio on Russ Whitney, and although I do not know him personally, he sounds like a stand-up.honest guy.
It's just that a person, like myself, on a limited budget, could not be able to pay for all the programs he was offering. It seems that in order to be financially successful in his training/organization, you would have to come up with alot of funds, which I wasn't able to do.
I truly believe there are people who are successful at doing this, but you must wonder first...

Did they have all the funds necessary to get the proper training, and if not, where did they get their training from?

I'm definately not looking for an easy way to make money. I realize that it takes alot of dedication and hard work to be successful. I'm just trying to learn how to do this on a limited budget.
Does this make sense?
 

andviv

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BigMako, the reason we asked is because there is a Russ here in the forum, so we were looking for clarification.

About Russ Whitney and other programs, their strategy is to give you a seminar for free, then they will upsell you the next level, and then the next one, and so on and so forth. It is a great strategy as each customer starts paying nothing and ends up paying thousands for the training.

Most people here believe that you don't need that type of training where you are just a money printing machine for the owners. There are good training packages out there. Do a search here in the forum and you will see what I am talking about.

The problem with these seminars/trainings is that you can get that same information for free. Read a few books, ask questions in forums like this, attend free conf calls (did you attend the one that David a.k.a. REIPro hosted yesterday?). And yes, I could do the search for you and give you the links to the threads I am talking about, but I won't. Show us that you really want to find the information (I already told you how to find it, now just do it). Another tip... do a search for all of REIPro posts, he mentions about training. He will give you references for you to check. He will guarantee results. Do also a search for posts from PhxMJ about REOs. There are millions of dollars of free advice here for you. Do your homework. Read the "Book Reviews & Recommendations" forum, that is a pretty good guide for material you can get. Go to your library and borrow the books if you don't want/can't buy them.

Yes, you can make it with a limited budget. There is another type of currency to use to pay for it, it is your time. Or you can spend the time watching TV instead. Your call.
 

PEERless

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BigMako, I think a quick edit of your original post would hep your rep. a lot. I think a lot of us thought you were talking about the forum-member, Russ.
 

Alex22

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My Credit Health

Exactly what kind of company is "working" on YOUR credit?? This would worry me as I feel I am the only one who can fix my credit and I am the only one responsible for my score. There are plenty of small things you can do to build your credit. Take your credit card and use it like a debit card. Make a purchase, then immediately pay it off with the cash you would have used.

You don't necessarily have to have a 720 credit score to get a good loan, anywhere in 600 is good and maybe even high 500. BUT, at your age you may be facing a bigger problem. Your history is not long enough. You can have a perfect score, but if its only from borrowing 1-2K over the past year or two, then you might as well have a poor score cause you won't get approved by your average lender.

I think you are better off trying to find a partner's credit to use and take that extra money your wasting to this "company" and use it to build your own credit.
Great point, I am absolutely the one ultimately responsible for the health of my credit. Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way how important it actually is to have a good credit score. I got in trouble at a relatively early age and it took me a couple of years to turn things around, but I elected to go with credit repair. Disputing the negative items on my credit report, coupled with responsible spending, made all the difference in the world. Also, I was extremely fortunate that I found a company that did what they actually said they were going to do. Awesome that you guys are here, thanks.
 

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