Medical school

[JMitchell]

I'm a high school graduate from Europe who contemplates studying for a bachelor's degree in Medicine or in Biology/Chemistry.

I think that being a physician is the slow lane to wealth. For instance, even you're a super-star physician, your work is tied to you, so you cannot meet the Time and Scale criteria. On the other hand, if you develop a kick-a$$ drug that can serve millions, you're going on the fast lane. Right?

That's why I'm also considering studying Biology/Chemistry and then a PhD so that I may start a pharmaceutical business and do research and development. I know I could hire somebody to do that, but I am interested in science and would love to do research myself.

The only reason I'm still having this debate is because Medicine offers safety...I know it sounds pathetic, but just in case I end up being a bad scientist, with Medicine I have a cozy career to fall back on.

Also, Medicine here takes 6 years and Biology/Chemistry 3 (add a PhD, which lasts 3, and you get roughly the same amount of time it'd take to study Medicine).

Is medical school the slow lane? Should I ditch it? Any advice is welcome!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Lights]

If you can ditch it because of some people on the internet, then I wouldn't even suggest doing it. The determination and tenacity to get through many years of this requires more discipline than you probably ever have to face in your life. If you go to a medical school forum this is their advice, "if you could do anything but medicine than do that"

I say it's medium-well lane, regardless of what happen you're going to end up being richer than most people but you'll never be wealthy in the true sense. Your youth will be wasted. Your energy depleted. And unless you have passion for this, I wouldn't recommend this.

Anyone who can go through medical school could be a fastlane success with or without it in my opinion because medical school requires drive that most people don't have.

 

[EastWind]

I have friends who are doctors, in their late 20's and late 30's. Earning easy $300k-$400k because of their speciality. They are certainly making more than most of us "fast laners" wannabe on average. Sure, once in a while, one of us hits a major home run and makes millions upon millions, but the truth is that a doctor who manages his money will certain get into millions FAST TOO. The reason medicine is slow lane for most doctors is that they don't practice frugality.

 

[awkwardgenius]

Medical School in itself is not fastlane. Having a PhD and whatever doors that opens certainly fulfills Entry though. After that, it's a matter of how you run your business. If you take a job in a hospital, that's not going to take you to wealth very quickly, and it will also monopolize your time.

If you open your own practice, you're probably going to get wealthier than working for someone else, but that doesn't scale very well.

If you find other ways to create income which aren't tied to your time, then you're on the right track (or in the right lane) e.g. write a book, leveraging your degree for credibility, develop a specialty in a profitable niche, create a product line that fills a need, etc...

If your goal is to become a doctor and help people, while living a comfortable life, there's plenty of ways to do that. If your goal is simply to make money, that's probably not the best/smartest/lowest risk way to to go about it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Graham Chong]

Hi which country are you from? I'm an international final year medical student in the UK, who will start working in August this year.

For your own sake, there's only one reason for you to try getting into medical school, and millions of reasons not to.

Passion! Passion! Passion!

Don't do it for your parents! (especially so if you are an Asian)
Don't do it for the money!
Don't do it for the safety!
Don't do it merely for being noble! (there are so many other ways of helping way more people than being in your consultation room or your surgical theatre)

Correct me if I am wrong - most Europeans do not take on huge debts to go to medical schools relatively compared to the US folks. Some are even granted living allowance besides getting their medical education paid for by the government. That's the good thing about doing medicine in Europe.

But, medicine requires commitment. Once you chose medicine, it becomes a huge chunk, if not all of your life. It's not just about the long grueling working hours (depending on which country you are from, Scandinavian countries generally have shorter working hours compared to say, UK and Portugal), you still need to study after working hours, at least until you become a specialty consultant. That's easily a total of 10-20 years or even more years of training (from med school to "consultantship"), again depending on which country and which specialty you planning to go into.

Is this something you are willing to do with arguably the best years of your life? One of my consultant surgeons told me he's glad that he's doing something he's truly enjoy and passionate about, and there are so many doctors out there doing things they don't really like. Competition is fierce for some of the more popular specialties, and many a time medics don't end up getting what they truly want. And yes there are burned-out and miserable doctors, who spend their money on cars after cars. Does money really buy happiness in such cases?

Before you ever consider going to a med school (that's if you manage to gain entry of course), go find out. Talk to doctors. Have hospital attachments, especially at the busiest departments. See if it's for you. It's your life, you only live once!

 

[The-J]

My previous business involved plastic surgeons.

These guys were multi-millionaires at the age of 35. They tend to retire at around 50.

Let's say you choose that career path. You do your 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 2 years residency, 2 years fellowship. That's 12 years, so you start your REAL earnings at age 30. If you're good with your money, you could be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. If you start your own practice at age 35, you could be netting over a million a year (I'm not joking) doing the work yourself, and by age 40 you could be running a Fastlane business with doctors working under you, working a four-hour work week.

Slowlane? Think again.

 

[hlopez22]

I used to want to be a Medical Doctor (M.D.) then I realized that medicine itself (at least in the United States) was corrupt and that learning alternative medicine would be a good future. I don't know what your thoughts are on medicine but to me treating someone with a pill is not medicine. Regardless, being a doctor will limit you in terms of hours and ability to dedicate yourself into something you can create especially if you are working for a hospital where they decide when you work. Not to mention the high amount of debt you will have by the time you finish medical school.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Graham Chong]

My previous business involved plastic surgeons.

These guys were multi-millionaires at the age of 35. They tend to retire at around 50.

Let's say you choose that career path. You do your 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 2 years residency, 2 years fellowship. That's 12 years, so you start your REAL earnings at age 30. If you're good with your money, you could be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. If you start your own practice at age 35, you could be netting over a million a year (I'm not joking) doing the work yourself, and by age 40 you could be running a Fastlane business with doctors working under you, working a four-hour work week.

Slowlane? Think again.

In the US one has to be at least among the top 10% in his/her med school to stand a good chance of getting into plastic surgery or dermatology, even better if his/her is one of the top three students.

Shouldn't be much easier in Canada?

I'm not sure if people have seen this article.

Small Business: Doctors going broke - Jan. 5, 2012

It's not a 100% safe path as it seems to be, in some countries you even have doctors driving cabs or guiding tourists (not in Europe luckily).

Again, don't do it just for the sake of financial security.

P/S: In the UK nearly 40% of your income as a doctor goes to the government, yucks!

 

[The-J]

In the US one has to be at least among the top 10% in his/her med school to stand a good chance of getting into plastic surgery or dermatology, even better if his/her is one of the top three students.

Shouldn't be much easier in Canada?

I'm not sure if people have seen this article.

Small Business: Doctors going broke - Jan. 5, 2012

It's not a 100% safe path as it seems to be, in some countries you even have doctors driving cabs or guiding tourists (not in Europe luckily).

Again, don't do it just for the sake of financial security.

P/S: In the UK nearly 40% of your income as a doctor goes to the government, yucks!

No such thing as a 'safe path' no matter how you slice it. Regular job, intellectual job, Slowlane business, Fastlane business, all of them are unsafe. I say, pick the one that will yield you the greatest rewards in life.

 

[JMitchell]

Thanks for the prompt answers, folks!

If I attend medical school, I'll do it in Romania. Unfortunately, pretty much all physicians here earn about 10k$ per year; super-stars might go up to 20k$, but that's as far as anyone can go.

I probably won't be able to practice medicine in the U.S. because of the high barriers to entry(e.g., thousands of dollars needed for exams and study materials). I'd also need work experience in an American hospital to even have a shot at getting a residency spot. But how would I gain that work experience if I don't live in the U.S.? See, it's a chicken-egg problem. In some parts of Europe, such as the UK, physicians super-stars could earn maybe 100k-200k$ per year, but I doubt they can go any higher. So under no way will I ever become a millionaire (in $) if I become a physician.

I guess I could do a gig as a physician to make ends meet while I'm starting a business.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The-J]

...then don't go to the US if it's that big of a problem?

Go to Canada instead. You can still make big money there.

NOBODY becomes a physician to 'make ends meet'. Being a doctor is a 'passion' job: you do it because you LIVE for it. Some people think they want to do it just for the money but they don't even make it through med school.

Do you REALLY want to become a doctor? No matter where you go, it's hard work: harder work than most of us are willing to do. It's rewarding but only if saving lives and treating illness is your passion. If it's not your passion, forget about becoming a doctor. Become a banker instead. Or start a business.

 

[Graham Chong]

No such thing as a 'safe path' no matter how you slice it. Regular job, intellectual job, Slowlane business, Fastlane business, all of them are unsafe. I say, pick the one that will yield you the greatest rewards in life.

NOBODY becomes a physician to 'make ends meet'. Being a doctor is a 'passion' job: you do it because you LIVE for it. Some people think they want to do it just for the money but they don't even make it through med school.

Do you REALLY want to become a doctor? No matter where you go, it's hard work: harder work than most of us are willing to do. It's rewarding but only if saving lives and treating illness is your passion. If it's not your passion, forget about becoming a doctor. Become a banker instead. Or start a business.

Well said, summed up what I wanted to say.

 

[Graham Chong]

In other words, yes, some doctors earn millions from medicine. But always always have the passion before anything, don't make monetary rewards as your primary motive.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DeletedUser11]

I would only recommend it if you are really passionate about helping people and science.

It's not fastlane by any means at all , I know so many doctors my mom is a physician and my dad is a ortho surgeon.

I thought fastlane was about:

Getting rich young or in a short period of time ?

Not trading your time for money ?

Not selling your soul monday to friday for a weekend ?

Working toward an exit strategy/liquidation event ?

Retiring young with hair, most doctors don't retire until they are 65, my parents are 55, my dad is bald as hell, and they are still working.

I know at least 20 surgeons/ doctors, only one of them took home just over 1,000,000 euro last year (1.4 mil $) he had to work monday - sunday
from 8am, somedays even 7am until 6 or seven in the evening. Keep in mind he's not building any sellable asset for all these hours.

I know another who lost his license over some BS and all those of years of medical school gone in a flash, dreams of making high 6 figures when he's 50 GONE. You can lose your license if you ever get arrested small things like being drunk in public, car accidents, getting into a brawl etc

Doctors are the BMW, Mercedes guys you see in suits in their 40 and 50s. They are not the ferrari, lambo, bugatti guys in their 20 and 30s wearing slippers and a pair of shorts.

Obviously if you create a pharma company you could make billions like Dr phillip frost, but you don't have to go to medical school for that.

Just my 2 cents, I know so many doctors and they all got into it because they loved science and helping people and they are happy not rich, If you are in it for the $$$ you will be deeply disappointed my friend.

 

[Silverhawk851]

Coming from a family of 7 doctors, I think I'll throw in my 2cents.

What do you have in mind when you hear the word Doctor?

In most people's minds, it's mean honor, lots of wealth, life set. But is that really the case? or is it a vision getting more and more difficult to obtain, somewhat similar to the American Dream.

Now, am I saying that Doctors don't make any money?

Not at all. They make easily ranging between 170k and 350k. what do most people do when they hear that? WOW, I'd love to have that it's amazing I'm going to become a doctor now!

What do they never ask is, hmm well what did you have to do to get there? Was it worth it? Would you do it again if you had the opportunity?

Of the 7 Family members that are doctors, 5 are over the age of 45, 2 over the age of 55. What did they do to get there?

They started studying borderline religiously at a very young age, they had to ace all of their subjects in highschool, then made their way to university for their bachelors. They put aside their social life, any businesses, any family time, and dedicated all waking hours to acheiving that 4.0 GPA.

Now, was that all? Nope. In Canada, to get into Med School, your marks only get you in the door. With the level of competition, budget cuts coming in from the Conservative Government, you need solid volunteer work, multiple interviews, examinations, Then you get into med school.

Great. Now were set? F*ck no. Now you go into the rotations, you're learning different areas of the medicine field, cardiology, gynocology, emergency, etc.

What the biggest factor I noticed was that medschool has really drained all of them, they lost that passion and that zest for life.

It's very wierd. They make decent money, but when my time came to decide if I'm going into medicine, I asked, Am I really willing to spend half my life studying for a daily routine, wake up go to work see patients, and if I don't, I don't make a cent?

Can I scale?
Can I replecate my Time I.e. make it passive?

Not unless you open your own clinic, hospital, which one of my family member has resorted to, after getting sick of working for somebody else's clinic.

"Ahh, so now he can scale and remove from his time right?"

think again. He's working twice as hard, he is losing money currently, and it is taking a toll on him. But Why? Because, running a clinic or hospital is a business, and his skill-set is different. He could've came out of highschool and pursued that same thing, hire doctors, get a place, renovate and get a liscence to operate, and would've cashed in the same amount if not more.


In my opinion, trading off your fastlane opportunity, even though you it's not visible to you right now, is never worth it. Never resort to 2nd best, never compromise.

Remember, Fastlane is exponential, slowlane is linear.

 

[Mr.Dietsch]

I didn't have time to read everyone's responses, but anyways medical/health industry is a great industry to join, and is always growing. I am sure you will find many fast lane opportunities in that industry for the simple fact of Entry. The only downfall I see is the government is now going to be owning the health department, and we all know what happens when you get involved with the government.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[hakrjak]

Profits are becoming fewer and far between, and will only get worse as governments continue to take over via socialized medicine. The number of years you must invest for an income that is not growing do not make sense. Like the above poster mentioned, the docs I know would not do it again -- and all misjudged just how long it would take to begin earning a decent income, and how much debt they would have to incur. If you want to do medical, you would be better served getting an MBA in healthcare administration and opening a chain of nursing homes or specialized clinics, etc.