Live Rent Free in Multiple Countries

[NickS]

Maybe I'm just paranoid but what is stopping your property manager from cutting you out completely? You'd be none the wiser, thinking there is no one renting while your pm collects all the money under the table.

 

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[Superwoman]

I also wanted to add that we financed our house in British Columbia 12 years ago. As an American, it is not any more difficult to obtain financing in Canada. And their paperwork to do so is much less than here. The banks write and keep the loans. You DO need to file taxes every year, and there are some funny tax regulations for being a foreign landlord. We use a Canadian accountant, because I would not know the proper tax info to complete a return. I'm not an accountant, and I don't want to be.

 

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[GuestUser140]

I've been looking at the numbers as well and I think 80€+ per night is pretty high in locations such as Budapest. I can see most decent apartments for 2 people rents out for 35-50 USD per night, but again I guess it all comes down to the math? Which I am not so good at, hmm. Feels a bit overwhelming. Guess I'll have to do some more reading

I have a similar feeling when it comes to Airbnb at times.
For a solo traveller, finding a hotel deal on Trivago often comes out cheaper, especially in the third world.

Have you looked at specific rentals (1BR/2BR/...) in specific areas (centre)? Otherwise it can get overwhelming and it might look like prices are all over the place, while good looking centrally located units fetch the best rates. Compare with purchase prices of said aptmnts.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Maybe I'm just paranoid but what is stopping your property manager from cutting you out completely? You'd be none the wiser, thinking there is no one renting while your pm collects all the money under the table.

As others said, if you use airbnb, vrbo or similar, you remain in control of the cash flow as guests pay through the respective reservation system.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

@GlobalWealth sorry if I missed it, but can/do you depreciate foreign properties on your taxes? Certainly that would make it even more appealing as your depreciation would shield a significant portion of your revenues from taxes.

Based on the US 39 1/2 year cycle that comes out to essentially 2.5 percent of the purchase price in tax deduction each year. But this assumes you file in the US.

Yes you can deduct depreciation on foreign real estate as well as mortgage interest (if any) and any other related deductible expenses. If residential the depreciation is over 27.5 years though, commercial is 39 years.

 

[JAWS]

After reading @G_Alexander post here - https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/stop-paying-rent-live-for-free.51893/ - I thought I would share with you a similar strategy that can be implemented on a more global scale.

First of all, this is not for everyone. This is for people who are interested in living in multiple countries and have the ability to work from anywhere.

This is not a get-rich-quick or even a business strategy. This is only for people who have a bit of money to invest and a virtual type income allowing them to work from anywhere in the world.

If this appeals to you however, I can teach you how to earn 7-10% net cash yield on multiple properties in multiple countries allowing you to live rent free and make a pretty good return at the same time.

Let me explain....

First of all, ideally you need cash. It is possible to get loans, but getting a mortgage outside of your home country can be a bit more difficult. Not impossible, but more difficult.

Secondly, you need the ability to travel to the place that interests you and spend some time on the ground meeting with real estate agents, contractors, property managers, etc. This is not passive getting started. It can be once set up, but requires real work on the front end.

The lazy need not apply.

Third, you need to open your mind a bit and get out of your comfort zone. You have have had dreams since you were a kid to live in London, but I can tell you - London is a horrible option for this strategy because you won't get any reasonable rate of return doing what I am suggesting.

You need to consider places off the beaten path that you may not have previously considered or have been negatively swayed due to mainstream media - Colombia, Serbia, Portugal, Brazil, Lithuania, Hungary, etc are all great option - but not places most have considered.

And lastly, be prepared for your friends and family to criticized this new life you have created flying to different countries every couple of weeks living in cool locations and experiencing things they would never have the courage or dreams to experience.

Let's get started.

First of all, you need to be aware of airbnb(dot)com and booking(dot)com. These are your platforms (there are others as well, but if done properly you won't need others). Also recognize this violates @MJ DeMarco's book's rule of control. Yes, you are somewhat in the hands of these marketplaces, but many of you running Amazon, Etsy, Ebay, Shopify, etc stores are in the same situation. And this is not your primary business model either. This is a way for you to invest in international real estate, live like Richard Branson, and earn some cash in the investment.

What you are looking for are cities with low wage and cost of living. You can research this on sites like numbeo(dot)com and others. I like numbeo because it allows you to research all aspects of cost of living and compare to other cities. It is very useful.

You want a a low cost of living city because these cities tend to attract tourists - your target audience. For example, British tourists tend to travel to various Eastern European cities for holiday because their money goes much, much further.

Anything in Switerland, UK, Norway, Finland, Sweden won't likely be candidates as they are typically very costly locales.

Next you want to find cities that have relatively high tourist traffic. These places need to have something of interest for visitors. Festivals, arts, architecture, Unesco World Heritage sites, beaches, food culture, etc.

One way you can check that is to go to airbnb(dot)com and look up your city of interest. Look up 15-20 properties for rent and look at their calendars for the next 2-3 months. Do they have a lot of vacancies, or are they rented out 15+ days per month? You can also get a feel for the pricing in the market for what a 1br, 2br, etc apartment may rent for per night/week/month.

If craigslist(dot)org is in the city, it is also a good resource to check the rental rates. But typically airbnb is good enough.

As is the case with much real estate investment advice, location is key. It is especially key in short term rentals. I would pay 2x as much for a center city apartment that is walking distance to local attractions than for an apartment that is 5km away that forces guests to drive or use public transport. Of course yield is key here, but the center city apartment will rent out much easier and will also be an easily saleable asset if you decide to unload the property in the future.

Next do some research on the local market prices for apartment sales. You can find real estate agent sites or other sites that aggregate real estate for sale in every medium+ sized city in the world (thanks Al Gore for the internet...).

Start building a spreadsheet to analyze pricing. Depending on where you are in the world will determine the unit, but for argument sake here let's just discuss euro/m2.

Create a spreadsheet and start analyzing similar properties in the city where you are interested. You will get a feel for the euro/m2 to give you some baseline for measurement.

Now look at airbnb and see what the average rental rate is per night and the average number of nights those apartments rent for.

For example, let's say you can buy a 50m2 apartment for eur75,000. That is 1500 eur/m2. If that apartment can rent for 80 eur/night and the average for those type apartments is 15 nights/month then....

So 80 eur/n X 15 n/m X 12 m = eur14,400 per year. That is your gross income.

eur14,400 / eur75,000 = 19.2% gross cap rate.

Of course you will have expenses associated with that but you can count on 40-50% expenses.

I pay my property manager 25% of gross rents. She handles meeting guests, dealing with any questions, checking them out, checking for damage, collecting deposits, cleaning, all communication, everything. The only extras are hard costs of paper products, soaps, lightbulbs, etc.

After you factor in utilities, property tax, insurance and holdback funds for future repairs, you can expect to have a total expenditure of around 40-50%.

Based on 50%, that leaves you with eur7,200 income, or a 9.6% net cash yield.

That is not uncommon.

In some cases you won't do that well, in some cases better.

For example, you may find a place in Florence, Italy you really love and would love to spend time there. After analyzing the numbers you realize you may only get a 6% net cash yield. But if it enhances your quality of life by spending a week per month in Florence, go for it. There is more to life than just money.
But getting a net cash yield of 6% and a free place to live in Florence is still pretty damn sweet.

Using your airbnb(dot) come platform, you can basically just block off the days on the calendar as unavailable for when you want to be at your apartment in Florence (or wherever). It takes a bit of preplanning but still pretty simple.

You can play around with the rates and charge more during holidays or certain events. For example, if you owned an apartment in New Orleans around Bourbon St, I would raise rates significantly during Mardi Gras.

Of course this is a strategy that cannot be completed overnight, but if it appeals to you I would start researching some place that appeals to you. Maybe it can be a good opportunity.

One last point to make. I truly believe people nowadays need to consider investing some of their wealth outside of their home country. This strategy is a multifaceted diversification approach allowing you to diversify outside your home currency, diversify into hard assets (real estate), and diversity outside your home country.

If this lifestyle fits you or inspires you, then you can buy apartment #2, #3, etc and live rent free around the world.

Feel free to ask me questions.

For cash gross cap / net cash yield, keep in mind that vacancy will be much more volatile (given people are renting these for days, weeks, months). I would add 5-15%, depending on location/heat of market, into the model.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

For cash gross cap / net cash yield, keep in mind that vacancy will be much more volatile (given people are renting these for days, weeks, months). I would add 5-15%, depending on location/heat of market, into the model.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you elaborate?

As for the model, I research the market to determine estimated occupancy rates. For example, I can pull data from airbnb or vrbo sites for similar properties and get a rough estimate of vacancy rates. For example, I may look at Lisbon and see that 1br apartment similar to what I am looking at rent for an average of 13 nights per month (just an example, not a real number).

So if I see the average nightly rate is eur50, then my gross monthly income would be approximately eur650, or eur7,800/year. If the apartment would cost eur78,000, then that is a 10% gross cap rate. Clearly this is not a "cash in the pocket" number, but only a metric I use to gauge the viability of a local market.

 

[GlobalWealth]

I agree with your model, but my trouble is the volatility that will come in estimating these occupancy rates. Do you use a certain time duration to measure this (1-3 years back)? I guess that is where the "art" of the deal comes in so the issue isn't what you are doing (because you already know), but the issue is letting others on the forum know to look out for it

To clarify. I don't understand what you "5-15%" calculation is a measurement or calculation of. Can you elaborate?

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

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[JAWS]

The Delta in your occupancy rate per month. But given what you said, it may be higher...

 

[HyperFocus]

I like your idea and I have some friends who yield 15-20% by using Airbnb while still living in the apartment.

But I dont understand your connection to living for free. Its not free as you cant rent it out then. Its also much easier to just rent wherever u want to live.

Buy where u want to invest
Rent where u want to live
Is the motto

 

[ilrein]

@GlobalWealth such a beautiful dream. Expect some PMs in a year or two

 

[HyperFocus]

I would like to see the REAL numbers to prove 15-20%. Not saying it is impossible, but highly unlikely. I have seen how people measure their return and unless they know what they are doing, they frequently leave out some expenses thus skewing the results.

I have seen airbnb owners who rent a room in their house/flat. I have also seen where people rent their place and just go to a friend's place while their guests are there. Personally I think those are both bad options, but that is my personal preference as both a guest and a host.

I don't want to share the space with either a guest or a host. Nor would l like the idea of being kicked out of my home on short notice.



You are missing the point. It seems you are reading this from your personal frame of reference.

Consider this. You own 3 apartments. One in Barcelona. Once in Lisbon. One in Denver.

You plan your life around times in these 3 apartments. Two weeks in Barcelona. Traveling around in Europe for 2 weeks. Two weeks in Lisbon. Traveling around for 2-4 weeks. One month in Denver.

You block off your times in each of the 3 apartments making them unavailable while you are staying there. But you make them available for rent while you are away.

The rental income from your 3 apartments when you are not using them covers the cost of your apartments, all expenses, your personal expenses and travel, plus you earn some additional income from it.

This is the idea behind living rent free in multiple countries. Is that more clear?

Yes I understand your point but why not rent out the three apartments all the time because they are located on the best yield locations (at least u try).
And then live for how long of time on other places by renting yourself.
[emoji6]

You will have more money in the end + more flexibility.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

Yes I understand your point but why not rent out the three apartments all the time because they are located on the best yield locations (at least u try).
And then live for how long of time on other places by renting yourself.

You will have more money in the end + more flexibility.

I say go for it.

Or maybe I like my 3 apartments and want to spend time in them just for personal reasons. But when not there I can rent them out and earn money giving me an international rent free lifestyle.

 

[HyperFocus]

I say go for it.

Or maybe I like my 3 apartments and want to spend time in them just for personal reasons. But when not there I can rent them out and earn money giving me an international rent free lifestyle.

Yes you can but disadvantages are:

-your own personal opinion isnt always the best invesment in terms of financial returns

-you cant easily move around

-long term appreciation likely will be lower

If you rent them out all the time you

-will still have international free lifestyle as you call it

-you can still live and spend time in an apartment that you personally like. In fact you will have more options because if you dont like it anymore you can move.

 

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[IGP]

Great thread! If was young, single and didn't have kids, I would be all over this.

 

[HyperFocus]

And not all of my choices are purely financially related



Yes I can. And do.



This statement makes no sense. Whether I live in my apartment full time or not has no bearing on its long term appreciation. Additionally, I never make real estate purchase decisions based on the hopes of future appreciation. That is a fools errand.




You have completely misunderstood the entire thread. I will leave it to you to reread it. I cannot rewrite everything here.



Apparently you feel the need to show the world that your solution is better than mine. More power too you.

I have no skin in the game if you choose to invest for income and live in rentals or follow my path. I couldn't care less.

One of my good friends is a hugely successful investor with hundreds of "doors" and he chooses to rent his own place. it works for him. It is a personal preference.

I only offered an alternative solution that gives someone the ability to own property, enjoy it, earn some income, and travel the world.

If you have a better solution, I suggest you fulfill it.

Sorry for offending you, that was not my intention. I just tried to help by showing that living in the place you own often isnt financially the best choice. You disagree and thats fine

can you tell me why you think its dumb to buy RE in the hopes of future appreciation? Because its impossible to forsee the future or its better to focus on short term yields?

Thanks for taking the time to answer

 

[HyperFocus]

Renting as a short term/vacation rental yields higher rates than doing a 1 year lease. Of course that is assuming that occupancy rates are decent.

It really depends on the numbers and it may just end up being exactly the same return after you factor in your "free" two weeks of living at the place.

I struggle with this when I purchase real estate. Do I use it when I want to? What is my lost revenue when I'm using it?

In my case, the cost of me using my potential vacation home was $15,000/mo. This was because I wanted to stay in it during the prime season when it would have rented at $500/night. So for me it was better to NOT buy a property there and just go rent someone else's home when I wanted to stay there. Instead, I bought a normal rental and rented it out on a yearly lease somewhere else.

Hey Biophase,

Yes you are correct. If you airbnb u can get 2-4x more than with long term contract. Def possible.

I see why you decided to make that decision. The vacation home wouldnt be wise in your case.

My point is that when buying RE its also possible to purely focus on getting the best place as an investment with high yields + future potential, rather than to think about where you would like to live. I didnt mean that long term rent is better than short term, that depends. I just meant that in either case one could focus purely on the economical side, Because the higher yields you get can be used to rent another place whenever u want to go there, you wont lose money, in fact you will gain financially + will have a more free mind in picking where to go in the future.
Many people often focus on where they would like to live in the future or where they can go to during the holiday, but where you want to live is not always where others want to stay.

Off topic: I read several of your threads. You have given me several insights and ideas, thanks a lot for that. If you ever have some questions regarding marketing you can always ask me. Btw Im currently in conversation with several factories in China and hope they can do what I want, exciting !!

 

[kwodzilla]

@GlobalWealth thanks for this awesome thread, something I would definitely consider when I want to take money out of my business.

My question to you is what percentage of your investments do you have in these apartments?

 

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[NYCGoblin]

Let's just say I'm heavily invested and still shopping.

Are there certain countries you would reccommend to start with? I am sure that almost any country can work, but through your expertise are there any that you had an easier time whether it be finding deals, laws, traffic etc.

 

[GlobalWealth]

In Riga and overall in Latvia it is now quite easy to communicate in English. Most of people now 3 languages - Latvian, English and Russian.

And I agree with GlobalWlth that in Riga and also even more in Jurmala (more a tourism city near sea) priceas for real eastate is now good for shopping.

Are you in Riga?

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

[GlobalWealth]

Near Riga, going to Riga almsot every day.

Let me know when you're in town. I am right in the center near freedom monument. I just sent you a pm.

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[ace81385]

Being do some more research as US citizen what are your thoughts on extended stays in Europe, is it difficult to get long term visas? I know there is schengen zone rules which apply to how long you can stay in Schengen zone for an then you need to leave for x # of months before you can come back. Especially with the refugee situation I have to imagine immigration issues are a huge problem in Europe right now, and they will not look kindly on people over staying visas?

 

[GlobalWealth]

Absolutely brilliant thread @GlobalWealth. Reps given!

This is the direction I've been wanting to move in for a few years now - this thread really resonates with me. I've been looking at Montenegro, Panama and New Zealand. NZ is a long term plan (buy a farm there for some income diversity, set it up as high-end farmstay accommodation for additional income when I'm not around).

Panama is slipping from my "to buy" list though as it's damn expensive for what it is. Buying an apartment in Panama City could be the pay off of the century if the place does turn into a Central American Singapore, but as it stands prices are ridiculous for the standard of the country (opinion only).

I'm looking for somewhere slightly warmer for when I'm over the mountain Winters, hence Montenegro. Lots to learn and my fear steps in before I get too serious, but this is the year for massive change. If I take a trip to that part of the world, do you recommend checking out Croatia too, anywhere else in the region? I'm not expecting you to do the research for me, just interested in areas to begin looking.

Read above about Colombia. Highly recommended.

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[illmasterj]

Actually, a question on tax. I don't need to know *your* specifics, but a hypothetical would help.

If someone has properties all around the world and only one AirBNB account, how would they split that up into tax returns for multiple countries? Or do they declare it only in the country that they are resident?

 

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[GuestUser140]

If you search for the location on AirBnB, make your search revisions (eg: 2 bedroom, whole apartment), then paste that URL into Import.io, you can export the data to CSV.

What do you do once you have the CSV? Make it visual with a graph?

 

[GlobalWealth]

I've been working on my own spreadsheets, trying to systemize this process.

I stumbled across https://www.import.io

If you search for the location on AirBnB, make your search revisions (eg: 2 bedroom, whole apartment), then paste that URL into Import.io, you can export the data to CSV.

Great find. Thanks.

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[Nomangee]

Anyone tried already leasing it long term and make the markup on short term renting via AirBnB?

In tourist areas you often get quite a good discount when you rent long term and you would still make a hefty % ROI each month and don't have your cash sitting in the property and free to rent a few more. That's how a fellow entrepreneur did it, started with one and now after 6 months got several properties and makes $10k+ net profit each month.

All of them are in the same city and he hired a crew to do all the cleaning/maintenance stuff. Cost for rent around $10k and the rest around $2-3k. So he makes nearly a 100% ROI each and every month. Also nearly completely passive income after the setup.

Need to make my own calculations soon, how I can achieve it in Europe. Currently I'm thinking about this idea to start it lean. I would lease an App in an eastern European country, with the right math behind it. Live in it and then start renting it out. When I get enough ROI for the first one each month, buy the next in the same city and live there, then do the same over and over again and when you have enough cashflow outsource everything and start the same in a new city. Could work, need to calculate everything over the next days.

Anyone looked into SEA for potential cities, something like Thailand, Bali etc?

 

[GlobalWealth]

Anyone tried already leasing it long term and make the markup on short term renting via AirBnB?

In tourist areas you often get quite a good discount when you rent long term and you would still make a hefty % ROI each month and don't have your cash sitting in the property and free to rent a few more. That's how a fellow entrepreneur did it, started with one and now after 6 months got several properties and makes $10k+ net profit each month.

All of them are in the same city and he hired a crew to do all the cleaning/maintenance stuff. Cost for rent around $10k and the rest around $2-3k. So he makes nearly a 100% ROI each and every month. Also nearly completely passive income after the setup.

Need to make my own calculations soon, how I can achieve it in Europe. Currently I'm thinking about this idea to start it lean. I would lease an App in an eastern European country, with the right math behind it. Live in it and then start renting it out. When I get enough ROI for the first one each month, buy the next in the same city and live there, then do the same over and over again and when you have enough cashflow outsource everything and start the same in a new city. Could work, need to calculate everything over the next days.

Anyone looked into SEA for potential cities, something like Thailand, Bali etc?

I have considered it here in Latvia. It can be very lucrative with little upfront cash and low risk.

Finding a landlord willing to allow subletting may be a challenge but that stuff can be a negotiating point.

I have looked at a few apartments here but so far no go on allowing sublets.

If I were here all the time I am certain I could make it work but I travel a lot and my PM cannot make those types of decisions.

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk

 

[GuestUser140]

Will try to do the math on Canary Islands, dunno if they are any good deals. But I researched the market recently a lot, as I want to move there over the winter. Found some websites where I can get luxury Arp. with min. 12 months rent quite cheap. Lets see if the numbers add up.

PM'd you, would love to exchange ideas! Just read your last posts and (as you can read in my other posts) I'm planning on letting/subletting on AirBnB. I'm eyeing the Canary Isles: I have a cousin who has been living/working on Tenerife for years and I believe I could set something up.

 

[GuestUser140]

I spent a week on Tenerife last month. While I didn't look specifically into prices and places to rent or buy, I do have some general insights about the island as I also went there to learn if it should stay on my radar for a possible future investment:

• the southern part of the island is sunnier and warmer, so most tourists go there. However, in my opinion it's super ugly. Since there are few trees there, it's also windier than the northern part (by northern I mean the region nearby Santa Cruz de Tenerife, not Icod de Los Vinos). Personally I wouldn't like to have a place there. It's full of tourists, horrible resort towns and all the worst you can expect from mass tourism. It might be a good business decision to have a place for rent in such a region, but not a good lifestyle decision (at least not for me) if you want to spend a part of a year there.
• the northern part of the island is much more beautiful and while the weather isn't as great (there's much more rain and it's colder even by a few degrees Celsius), I felt much more comfortable there. Santa Cruz de Tenerife is a beautiful city, and it's very well connected with the rest of the island. The cities and towns nearby are also nice, and definitely much nicer than all the ugly resort towns in the south. It's also the biggest city on the island, so the best shopping and culture is there.
  
• Tenerife, and primarily its northern part, isn't really that warm in March/April (22-23 degrees Celsius during the day), which means that it can be below 20 degrees during winter. It's still warmer than the south of mainland Spain, and the island is so diverse that you can switch climates within 30 minutes. However, if you're looking for a super warm place to escape winter, Tenerife (and other Canary Islands) isn't it. Don't get me wrong, it's still much better than mainland Europe, but during the winter months don't expect to wear only shorts and a t-shirt (or at least not every single day).
  
• I wouldn't consider the region around Icod de Los Vinos at all investment-wise. It's the coldest part of the island, and while it's very green and beautiful, as a tourist I wouldn't like to spend time there during the winter (if it's 15 degrees Celsius during the day in April there, it's a warm day; temperatures drop below 10 degrees if it's raining). It's also difficult and takes a lot of time to access other parts of the island from there (while it's easy from Santa Cruz and surrounding places).
• After my visit there, I'm not entirely sure I would like to invest there. I don't think you would have a problem renting out the place in the south. However, if you're like me and you're not into spending your time in a resort town, then you'd have to look for a place in the north. It would probably be more difficult to make a good return on your investment with a place to rent in the northern part of the island. Most people who read about Tenerife learn that the southern part is much sunnier and warmer, so they go there. I'm pretty sure there's much less demand for places to rent in the more beautiful, but colder northern part most of the sun-deprived tourists overlook.
  
• Last but not least, Tenerife IMO isn't really a beach destination. If you love black sand beaches, then okay - you'll probably enjoy it. However, there aren't that many great beaches as you probably think (I personally couldn't stand all the ugly commercialized beaches in the south while enjoyed the wild, undeveloped beaches of the north). In my opinion, Tenerife is primarily a hiking destination. If you're into beaches, go to Fuerteventura and its endless stretches of natural yellow sand beaches.

Great info. Have you been to Gran Canaria too? It seems it has the best climate of all the islands, sand beaches and the most variety in landscape.

 

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