IT'S THE VACCINES, STUPID

[AceVentures]

Mother's milk and mother's love are how a child begins to develop their response to the world.

The other thing that requires pinning down healthy children and forcefully injecting them with foreign biological and toxic non-organic materials is something only the devil can convince you is irrefutable science.

It requires you holding down your child against their wish (and your better judgment), violating their innocence, destroying their feeling of safety and enabling a stranger to stab them with a sharp needle to inject foreign materials into their blood.

Now IF THAT AESTHETIC ALONE doesn't make you question yourself, please carry on.

"What's in the vial doc?" A QUESTION THAT YOU FAIL TO ASK BUT WOULD BE TERRIFIED IF YOU KNEW.

There are two kinds of people: those who know the harms of these products, and those who don't. If you're getting these products or giving them to your children you are VERY LIKELY ignorant of what you're doing.

What I'm saying is, IF YOU KNEW BETTER, you would sure as shit question these products.

Consider the following facts:

* Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people
* They're the only "health" product that HAS NEVER BEEN PLACEBO SAFETY TESTED
* Their manufacturers are LEGALLY PROTECTED from adverse effects (childhood vaccine injury act passed in 1986)
* Doctors/physicians receive MASSIVE bonuses if and only if they jab children

If you're anybody with half a F*cking brain and haven't been under the spell of the cultural vaccine myth, you would look at that list of facts and be STUPEFIED at how obvious the inversion of reality is.

You want to take these products? Take them. But at least have the courage to FIND OUT WHAT THE F*ck IT IS THAT YOU'RE DOING with respect to these products.

If you have the balls to ask the question in the face of cultural shame, I encourage you to read "Turtles All The Way Down" and dig through the resources on Children's Health Defense.

I don't want to bother myself with this shit more than anybody else. I hate that this is a thing. It's such a disturbing situation I also wish I could look away.

But I'm a father of two children with a third on the way. There's nothing I love more in this world than children.

And I don't want my children growing up in a world in which this ignorance is normalized. For them to live in a society that blindly harms children by cultural pressure, cowardice and idiocy. Imagine being SHAMED to even question whether you should submit to being violated in such a way.

If you don't want to at least talk about this issue you're a F*cking coward. Idgaf that it vexes your little coward heart.

Tired of walking on egg shells on this matter. Would rather see weak men die than to continue propagating this culture of violence against children.

 

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[ThomasTLM]

This really is only a fraction of the “Culture of Violence Against Children.” There’s a long, long list of things that display how much our “enlightened”, decadent culture hates children.

I had never really thought about vaccines too much until 2020 for obvious reasons.

A few years later I watched a documentary called “Died Suddenly”, which specifically talked about the harms of the COVID “vaccines”, but broadly spoke on the detriments of all vaccines as well as their origins.

What was the final nail in the coffin was hearing F*cking Bill Gates talk about how we need vaccines for overpopulation.

Um, there’s only two ways to control a population. You either sterilize or kill off. I’m convinced vaccines make you sterile, shorten your life expectancy, or both.

Malthusian theory is a load of horseshit and is flawed unlike any other set of theories. I will gladly die on that hill.

 

[Xavier X]

Um, there’s only two ways to control a population. You either sterilize or kill off. I’m convinced vaccines make you sterile, shorten your life expectancy, or both.

Being "convinced" about something without first objectively looking into available data is a disservice to one's self. With any citation-providing AI, you could probably conduct that preliminary assessment quickly.

Step 1: Look up the top 5 countries or locations with the highest life expectancy.
Step 2: Look up infant or general historical vaccine adoption rates for those locations.
Step 3: Assess if you see a direct correlation between "shortened life expectancy" and "high infant or general vaccination rates."
Notice I said correlation, because correlation is not causation. However, at least with whatever you find, you'll know what direction to assess next.

And if you want to offer yourself even more clarity, conduct an inverse assessment.

Look up countries with the lowest life expectancy and then look up their vaccine adoption rates. Then draw your own conclusions.

 

[TheWiseGuy]

Mother's milk and mother's love are how a child begins to develop their response to the world.

The other thing that requires pinning down healthy children and forcefully injecting them with foreign biological and toxic non-organic materials is something only the devil can convince you is irrefutable science.

It requires you holding down your child against their wish (and your better judgment), violating their innocence, destroying their feeling of safety and enabling a stranger to stab them with a sharp needle to inject foreign materials into their blood.

Now IF THAT AESTHETIC ALONE doesn't make you question yourself, please carry on.

"What's in the vial doc?" A QUESTION THAT YOU FAIL TO ASK BUT WOULD BE TERRIFIED IF YOU KNEW.

There are two kinds of people: those who know the harms of these products, and those who don't. If you're getting these products or giving them to your children you are VERY LIKELY ignorant of what you're doing.

What I'm saying is, IF YOU KNEW BETTER, you would sure as shit question these products.

Consider the following facts:

* Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people
* They're the only "health" product that HAS NEVER BEEN PLACEBO SAFETY TESTED
* Their manufacturers are LEGALLY PROTECTED from adverse effects (childhood vaccine injury act passed in 1986)
* Doctors/physicians receive MASSIVE bonuses if and only if they jab children

If you're anybody with half a F*cking brain and haven't been under the spell of the cultural vaccine myth, you would look at that list of facts and be STUPEFIED at how obvious the inversion of reality is.

You want to take these products? Take them. But at least have the courage to FIND OUT WHAT THE F*ck IT IS THAT YOU'RE DOING with respect to these products.

If you have the balls to ask the question in the face of cultural shame, I encourage you to read "Turtles All The Way Down" and dig through the resources on Children's Health Defense.

I don't want to bother myself with this shit more than anybody else. I hate that this is a thing. It's such a disturbing situation I also wish I could look away.

But I'm a father of two children with a third on the way. There's nothing I love more in this world than children.

And I don't want my children growing up in a world in which this ignorance is normalized. For them to live in a society that blindly harms children by cultural pressure, cowardice and idiocy. Imagine being SHAMED to even question whether you should submit to being violated in such a way.

If you don't want to at least talk about this issue you're a F*cking coward. Idgaf that it vexes your little coward heart.

Tired of walking on egg shells on this matter. Would rather see weak men die than to continue propagating this culture of violence against children.

C19 was the ultimate test of cowardice.

I'm proud that I stood up for what I believed in— nothing could waver my beliefs.

And guess what?

People like me were right.

You can't trust your fellow man in times of REAL war, for your fellow man sucked up the propaganda and snitched on his neighbour.

Utterly spineless people, with no thought floating in their mind that wasn't indented by MSM or some Marxist professor on estrogen pills.

And you know what's the problem with the world? You can't say stuff like this without losing your job.

We're creating a world full of spinless idiots— terrified of touching a nerve — terrified of the overweight, blue haired mob.

It's all by design. It's another text-book trick by those orchestrating the 9-5 drag. God forbid somebody has an original thought.

 

[pkom79]

Consider the following facts:

* Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people
* They're the only "health" product that HAS NEVER BEEN PLACEBO SAFETY TESTED
* Their manufacturers are LEGALLY PROTECTED from adverse effects (childhood vaccine injury act passed in 1986)
* Doctors/physicians receive MASSIVE bonuses if and only if they jab children

I am not trying to convince anyone or continue a discussion. I just want to leave some sources to contradict the claims from the original post.

Plenty of everyday preventive products target healthy people long before they get sick. Prenatal folic acid pills cut the risk of neural tube defects, so every woman who might become pregnant is told to take them. PubMed Statins are widely prescribed to healthy adults with elevated cardiovascular risk to stop heart disease before it starts. JAMA Network

The 1954 Salk polio trial enrolled 1.8 million kids with a salt-water placebo group. PMC Quadrivalent HPV vaccine trials and the Pfizer-BioNTech C0VlD-19 trial both used saline placebos and tracked safety for months. PubMed

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program moved most claims to a no-fault system so vaccines wouldn’t disappear from the market, but it isn’t an absolute shield. Companies can still be sued for manufacturing defects, fraud, or failure to warn. HRSA BMJ The Lanier Law Firm

The viral post about $40k bonuses has been debunked. Some insurers give small quality-of-care incentives that bundle many measures (well-child visits, development screenings, etc.), not just "jabs", and the amounts are nowhere near the claim. PolitiFact

 

[Johnny boy]

I picked up fake vaccine cards from a guy in Slovenia when Covid hit and gave them to all the homies so we could go out to dinner in Seattle.

Hard part now is finding a woman with clean blood to have babies.

 

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[AceVentures]

Plenty of everyday preventive products target healthy people long before they get sick.

Nobody is compelled to take supplements. And none of them are injected into your blood stream. Comparing them to vaccines is dishonest.

Prenatal folic acid pills cut the risk of neural tube defects, so every woman who might become pregnant is told to take them. PubMed Statins are widely prescribed to healthy adults with elevated cardiovascular risk to stop heart disease before it starts. JAMA Network

Own goal. Preemptively taking statins to combat the risk of heart disease is laughable. Clearly you don't know enough about statins and cholesterol.

The 1954 Salk polio trial enrolled 1.8 million kids with a salt-water placebo group.

The Salk polio study is highly controversial, and is talked about in detail in the book I suggested.

The post-1955 drop in morbidity, which was attributed to the vaccine, was also affected by two other factors: a change in diagnostic procedures and the introduction of new laboratory tests.

If you want to know the story of the polio vaccine I highly recommend listening to Dr. Suzanne Humphries. This segment from her interview on JRE is important.

PMC Quadrivalent HPV vaccine trials and the Pfizer-BioNTech C0VlD-19 trial both used saline placebos and tracked safety for months. PubMed

If you're going to link something - ANYTHING - to be considered for a track record in safety, the covid trials are the LAST place to start. The trials were riddled with faults, coverups and intentional FRAUD.

The HPV study you link is actually FUNDED BY MERCK! Oh and get this:



Let's assume for a moment that you're right about this HPV vaccine (even though you aren't). WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 94 SHOTS ON THE 2025 CHILDHOOD VACCINE SCHEDULE?

Go on, go get the data. I'll wait.

Here's the TRUTH:

Almost none use inert placebo controls (and even some of the so-called “placebos” contain problematic adjuvants like aluminum), and there are no long-term double-blind studies.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program moved most claims to a no-fault system so vaccines wouldn’t disappear from the market, but it isn’t an absolute shield. Companies can still be sued for manufacturing defects, fraud, or failure to warn. HRSA BMJ The Lanier Law Firm

The viral post about $40k bonuses has been debunked. Some insurers give small quality-of-care incentives that bundle many measures (well-child visits, development screenings, etc.), not just "jabs", and the amounts are nowhere near the claim. PolitiFact

This is propaganda. But I've destroyed more critical parts of your argument that I don't feel the need to explain how "politifact" is propaganda.

I am not trying to convince anyone or continue a discussion.

Yea of course you don't want to "continue a discussion" because you're not educated on the topic.

And if you don't want to have the debate, then why step into the arena?

You just reflexively commented on this thread out of your ignorance because you're brainwashed.

 

[AceVentures]

I am not trying to convince anyone or continue a discussion. I just want to leave some sources to contradict the claims from the original post.

Plenty of everyday preventive products target healthy people long before they get sick. Prenatal folic acid pills cut the risk of neural tube defects, so every woman who might become pregnant is told to take them. PubMed Statins are widely prescribed to healthy adults with elevated cardiovascular risk to stop heart disease before it starts. JAMA Network

The 1954 Salk polio trial enrolled 1.8 million kids with a salt-water placebo group. PMC Quadrivalent HPV vaccine trials and the Pfizer-BioNTech C0VlD-19 trial both used saline placebos and tracked safety for months. PubMed

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program moved most claims to a no-fault system so vaccines wouldn’t disappear from the market, but it isn’t an absolute shield. Companies can still be sued for manufacturing defects, fraud, or failure to warn. HRSA BMJ The Lanier Law Firm

The viral post about $40k bonuses has been debunked. Some insurers give small quality-of-care incentives that bundle many measures (well-child visits, development screenings, etc.), not just "jabs", and the amounts are nowhere near the claim. PolitiFact

Oh I get it now. It was an AI generated post! For every bullet point I listed, your AI spit out 2 rando sentences in an attempt to refute my claims.

YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD USE AI TO DEBUNK WHAT I SPENT YEARS STUDYING IN GREAT DETAIL? OH AND HIDE BEHIND A CAUTION AGAINST FURTHER DISCUSSION? THIS IS THE COWARDICE I CALL OUT IN MY OP.

 

[Kak]

I see some kids and I can just tell.

I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Kevin88660]

Too much science for me to absorb. If the doctors vaccinate themselves and their own children I will trust their vaccination.

 

[heavy_industry]

Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people

Seatbelts also fall into this category, since they are mostly used by non-disabled people that would like to remain that way.

---

I am not going to go full Dunning-Kruger on this thread and speak up my mind on a topic that I have very little understanding of, but based on my limited knowledge:

1. The vast majority of vaccines are either useless or harmful.

2. The COVID "vaccine" was the cherry on top, as it did not even fit the definition of a vaccine. The fact that it was an experimental, untested substance mandated for hundreds of millions of people should classify this incident as a crime against humanity.

3. Big pharma is one of the most corrupt and unscrupulous industries in the history of mankind, and could be very well classified as legal organized crime.

4. Although most vaccines are useless or harmful (see point #1), a tiny fraction of them can save your life under very specific circumstances. Some antibiotics fit into the same category.


The fourth point applies to all medical procedures of any kind, as well as pharmaceuticals and supplements:

• Most are complete BS and are only used to rob desperate and suffering people out of their money.
• SOME are literal life-savers and the miraculous product of millennia of human scientific understanding.

It's sad that the real usefulness of medicine and pharmaceuticals gets drowned in an endless ocean of corruption and scandal.

The fact that we live in the sickest society in recorded history - despite our supposedly superior scientific knowledge - should tell you everything you need to know about how well we're doing.

 

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[MitchC]

Too much science for me to absorb. If the doctors vaccinate themselves and their own children I will trust their vaccination.

Plenty of doctors and nurses in my family

Everything they are taught comes from who? From where?

Are they learning and researching this stuff themselves or just being told?

They are too busy to research anything on their own and why would they anyway when it goes against their career?

People that spent their entire lives being indoctrinated by the medical system vaccinate their kids so you want to as well?

Ask yourself seriously what you think the doctors education on vaccines looks like? I don't know but I doubt they spend much time on it since what do they need to know? These are good, you give them to kids, alright onto shit that you actually need to learn about like how to diagnose shit.

You really think doctors have a minute to spare questioning vaccine safety and researching it? Why would they even if they did

 

[StrikingViper69]

I'm not sure if you're talking specifically about covid, or vaccines in general. The conversation around vaccines seems to have shifted since covid, with covid vaccines and vaccines in general being lumped into one category. It reads like you're talking about them in general...

Consider the following facts:

* Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people

- Wrong. Preventative medecine. I had a jaw operation to prevent future health problems. At the time I was fine. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

* They're the only "health" product that HAS NEVER BEEN PLACEBO SAFETY TESTED

- Wrong: “A calculated risk”: the Salk polio vaccine field trials of 1954 - PMC
- Obviously biased website but links through to several papers with examples: Were vaccines tested against placebos?

* Their manufacturers are LEGALLY PROTECTED from adverse effects (childhood vaccine injury act passed in 1986)

- You can't sue them for stated side affects - that doesn't make sense. All vaccines have side affects which are publicly available for research. There's a database anyone can look up. Even the most well tested vaccines that have existed for decades have adverse effects to a small amount of people. But the risk from side effects is deemed lower than the risk from polio/measles etc.

* Doctors/physicians receive MASSIVE bonuses if and only if they jab children

Maybe this is a US specific thing, but I couldn't find any info on it. I'm also not prepared to spend all day researching it.

---

Your post with strong claims with little to no evidence to back it up, that are factually wrong, and lots of appeals to emotion.

I'm not going to respond further to this because it's a pointless debate.

My post is for anyone else reading this - fact-check these claims yourself. A quick google proved most of the original claims wrong in a few minutes.

I'm 100% convinced if the government said cleaning your butt after pooping is good for you, half this forum would be out in arms over their new found sense of health and freedom from going against government advice.

Everything they are taught comes from who? From where?

Are they learning and researching this stuff themselves or just being told?

Time is limited. You can't learn everything from scratch for every technical field, that would be impossible. At some point you have to accept stated results. I don't have a medical background, but a physics background. One of my first year text books was nearly 2 inches thick. How long would it take me to go through that and check everything and research everything for accuracy? It took me a year to get through half of it without doing that. I imagine other scientific fields, such as medecine, would be similar.

To answer the "from who and from where", I bet you can grab any university level textbook and find references to every single experiment conducted, from there you could research them to your hearts content.

The answers to things like this are going to be in text-books and journals, not on the internet in general.

 

[Fox]

Health experts be like:

Smoking is healthy
Asbestos is safe
Radiation is safe
White bread is great
Pesticides are safe
Infant formula better than breastfeeding
Margarine better than butter
Eggs are bad
Opioids are non-addictive

Zero to worry about with vaccines though. For sure for sure.

 

[MitchC]

Time is limited. You can't learn everything from scratch for every technical field, that would be impossible. At some point you have to accept stated results. I don't have a medical background, but a physics background. One of my first year text books was nearly 2 inches thick. How long would it take me to go through that and check everything and research everything for accuracy? It took me a year to get through half of it without doing that. I imagine other scientific fields, such as medecine, would be similar.

To answer the "from who and from where", I bet you can grab any university level textbook and find references to every single experiment conducted, from there you could research them to your hearts content.

The answers to things like this are going to be in text-books and journals, not on the internet in general.

Yeah I think we are saying the same thing

I’m not saying doctors and nurses should do that or that they are bad people because they don’t

I’m saying they likely would have absolutely no clue and are just going along with what they are told so using them as a point of reference or authority is pointless

These are the same doctors and nurses who recommended and administered the covid shot without doing an ounce of research

 

[StrikingViper69]

Yeah I think we are saying the same thing

I’m not saying doctors and nurses should do that or that they are bad people because they don’t

I’m saying they likely would have absolutely no clue and are just going along with what they are told so using them as a point of reference or authority is pointless

These are the same doctors and nurses who recommended and administered the covid shot without doing an ounce of research

Yeah I’d agree with that!

 

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[Simon Angel]

This thread is a disservice to the men and women who devoted their lives to pushing the needle forward in medicine. I don't take meds (even though science says I should), and I have a disdain for most doctors, just like anyone else. Why?

Because, more often than not, they've failed me, and I was just another patient to them.

With that said, generalizing that vaccines are the bane of humanity is plain retarded.

The other thing that requires pinning down healthy children and forcefully injecting them with foreign biological and toxic non-organic materials is something only the devil can convince you is irrefutable science.

It requires you holding down your child against their wish (and your better judgment), violating their innocence, destroying their feeling of safety and enabling a stranger to stab them with a sharp needle to inject foreign materials into their blood.

This is deranged and sounds like something I'd expect to read on a single mother's Instagram account with a random bible quote in the bio and a "carnivore" lifestyle. I'm going to assume 50% of the people who've commented on this thread would've been dead without vaccines.

For example, I've had at least 5 rusty nails embedded in my foot at various points in my life, including at the age of 5 when I just hid it from my mother so I wouldn't get in trouble. Fortunately for me, I had had my innocence violated after a stranger stabbed me with the tetanus toxoid not too long ago, and my parents didn't have to watch me die a gruesome death.

Could it have contributed to my autoimmune disorder? Potentially. Could it have made me more susceptible to mental health conditions? Maybe.

But I and many others got to live.

I'm grateful that governments took measures to practically eradicate tuberculosis, measles, tetanus polio, and rabies. Life today is so comfortable thanks to the generations before us that we look for ways to undo their work like the fools we are.

---

Disclaimer: I didn't take the COVID vaccine, I don't have purple hair, I don't shoot guns, I don't think Obama is the best president in the world, I don't eat red meat, I'm not a communist, I don't drive a big ol' truck, I don't stand for LGBTQ rights, and I'm wholly uninterested in a debate.

 

[Kak]

This thread is a disservice to the men and women who devoted their lives to pushing the needle

Lol, yeah.

 

[Kevin88660]

What was the final nail in the coffin was hearing F*cking Bill Gates talk about how we need vaccines for overpopulation.

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Sj801B7ZJnA

 

[Antifragile]

Mother's milk and mother's love are how a child begins to develop their response to the world.

The other thing that requires pinning down healthy children and forcefully injecting them with foreign biological and toxic non-organic materials is something only the devil can convince you is irrefutable science.

It requires you holding down your child against their wish (and your better judgment), violating their innocence, destroying their feeling of safety and enabling a stranger to stab them with a sharp needle to inject foreign materials into their blood.

Now IF THAT AESTHETIC ALONE doesn't make you question yourself, please carry on.

"What's in the vial doc?" A QUESTION THAT YOU FAIL TO ASK BUT WOULD BE TERRIFIED IF YOU KNEW.

There are two kinds of people: those who know the harms of these products, and those who don't. If you're getting these products or giving them to your children you are VERY LIKELY ignorant of what you're doing.

What I'm saying is, IF YOU KNEW BETTER, you would sure as shit question these products.

Consider the following facts:

* Vaccines are the ONLY "health" product given to healthy people
* They're the only "health" product that HAS NEVER BEEN PLACEBO SAFETY TESTED
* Their manufacturers are LEGALLY PROTECTED from adverse effects (childhood vaccine injury act passed in 1986)
* Doctors/physicians receive MASSIVE bonuses if and only if they jab children

If you're anybody with half a F*cking brain and haven't been under the spell of the cultural vaccine myth, you would look at that list of facts and be STUPEFIED at how obvious the inversion of reality is.

You want to take these products? Take them. But at least have the courage to FIND OUT WHAT THE F*ck IT IS THAT YOU'RE DOING with respect to these products.

If you have the balls to ask the question in the face of cultural shame, I encourage you to read "Turtles All The Way Down" and dig through the resources on Children's Health Defense.

I don't want to bother myself with this shit more than anybody else. I hate that this is a thing. It's such a disturbing situation I also wish I could look away.

But I'm a father of two children with a third on the way. There's nothing I love more in this world than children.

And I don't want my children growing up in a world in which this ignorance is normalized. For them to live in a society that blindly harms children by cultural pressure, cowardice and idiocy. Imagine being SHAMED to even question whether you should submit to being violated in such a way.

If you don't want to at least talk about this issue you're a F*cking coward. Idgaf that it vexes your little coward heart.

Tired of walking on egg shells on this matter. Would rather see weak men die than to continue propagating this culture of violence against children.

I’ll use AI Grok for a full reply (feel free to ignore it!). My motivation is based on a book I read a while back addressing why some parents are anti-vax. There is nothing that will convince you otherwise, but I hope to capture at least a few people who won’t fall for your emotional and exaggerated statements!

From xAi-Grok Deep Search

Below, I respond to the original anti-vaccine post you shared, refuting its specific claims with evidence-based counterarguments and applying insights from The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe by Steven Novella et al. to explain why the poster holds these views. The response is structured to directly address the post’s assertions, provide a clear rebuttal, and analyze the poster’s motivations using the book’s framework of cognitive biases, social influences, and misinformation dynamics.





Response to the Anti-Vaccine Post


Your post passionately argues against childhood vaccines, framing them as harmful, untested, and driven by profit motives. While your concern for children’s safety is understandable, many of your claims are inaccurate or misleading. Below, I address your key points with evidence and explain, using principles from The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe, why you may hold these anti-vaccine beliefs, rooted in cognitive biases, distrust, and misinformation.


Refutation of Specific Claims

1. Claim: Vaccines involve “forcefully injecting foreign biological and toxic non-organic materials” and are unnatural compared to “mother’s milk and love.”
   • Rebuttal: Vaccines are not “toxic” or unnatural in a harmful sense. They contain antigens, adjuvants (e.g., aluminum salts in trace amounts), and stabilizers, all rigorously tested for safety, as detailed by the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (Types of Vaccine Ingredients). These ingredients, like aluminum, are present in smaller quantities than in breast milk or food (e.g., 0.5 mg in a vaccine vs. 40 mg in daily diet). The CDC (Vaccine Basics) explains that vaccines mimic natural immune responses, training the body to fight diseases like measles, which has a 1 in 1,000 mortality rate. Comparing vaccines to “mother’s love” oversimplifies a medical intervention that has saved 154 million lives since 1974 (WHO, 2024).
   • Why This Claim Resonates (Skeptics’ Guide): The Skeptics’ Guide highlights the appeal of “natural” solutions due to the naturalistic fallacy (Chapter 4). Your framing taps into moral purity concerns, portraying vaccines as “foreign” and violating innocence. This reflects motivated reasoning (Chapter 3), where fear of harm drives conclusions, amplified by emotional language that resonates more than data.
2. Claim: Vaccines are the “only health product given to healthy people” and “never placebo safety tested.”
   • Rebuttal: Vaccines are not unique in being given to healthy people; vitamins, fluoride, and preventive drugs like statins are similar. Regarding testing, vaccines undergo extensive clinical trials, including thousands of participants, as outlined by the FDA (Common Ingredients in FDA-Approved Vaccines). While some trials use active comparators (e.g., another vaccine) instead of inert placebos to avoid denying protection against deadly diseases, this is an ethical standard, not a lack of testing. Post-marketing surveillance via VAERS ensures ongoing safety, with severe adverse events occurring in 0.0001% of doses (CDC, 2023). Your claim misrepresents scientific rigor.
   • Why This Claim Resonates: The Skeptics’ Guide notes that complex science is often misunderstood, leading to distrust (Chapter 10). Your assertion about “no placebo testing” reflects a cherry-picking fallacy (Chapter 13), focusing on a technical detail to imply untested harm. This aligns with conspiracy thinking (Chapter 14), where gaps in understanding are filled with suspicion of cover-ups.
3. Claim: Vaccine manufacturers are “legally protected from adverse effects” under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act.
   • Rebuttal: The 1986 Act created the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP), a no-fault system to compensate rare vaccine injuries, funded by a vaccine tax, as per HRSA (About the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program). This protects manufacturers from lawsuits to ensure vaccine supply, as shortages threatened public health in the 1980s (Congress.gov, H.R.5546). The VICP has paid billions for legitimate claims, balancing accountability with accessibility. Your claim ignores this compensation mechanism, which supports affected families without proving manufacturer fault.
   • Why This Claim Resonates: The Skeptics’ Guide explains that distrust in institutions fuels conspiracy theories (Chapter 14). Your focus on legal protections reflects suspicion of “Big Pharma,” a common anti-vaccine trope. This ties to tribal identity (Chapter 9), where rejecting vaccines signals alignment with groups distrusting mainstream systems.
4. Claim: Doctors receive “massive bonuses” for vaccinating children.
   • Rebuttal: This is exaggerated. Doctors may receive modest incentives from insurers for meeting quality metrics, including vaccination rates, but these are not “massive bonuses.” AP News (Posts exaggerate insurance incentives for child vaccinations) debunked claims of $40,000 bonuses, showing payouts in programs like Michigan’s Blue Cross Blue Shield were far lower and tied to multiple factors. A 1999 study (The impact of physician bonuses) found incentives improve coverage but are small. Vaccinate Your Family (Are Doctors’ Vaccine Recommendations Motivated By Profits?) notes pediatricians often lose money on vaccines due to low reimbursements. Your claim overstates financial motives.
   • Why This Claim Resonates: The Skeptics’ Guide highlights how conspiracy narratives attribute ulterior motives to experts (Chapter 11). Your claim reflects this, portraying doctors as profit-driven, which appeals to confirmation bias (Chapter 2) among those already skeptical of medical systems.
5. Claim: Vaccine ingredients are secretive (“What’s in the vial doc?”) and harmful if known.
   • Rebuttal: Vaccine ingredients are transparent, listed by the FDA and Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (Types of Vaccine Ingredients). Components like antigens, adjuvants, and preservatives (e.g., thimerosal, removed from most childhood vaccines) are safe in trace amounts. For example, aluminum in vaccines (0.5 mg) is less than in daily food intake (HealthLink BC, Vaccine Ingredients). Your fear of “foreign materials” is unfounded, as these are rigorously tested and necessary for immune response.
   • Why This Claim Resonates: The Skeptics’ Guide notes that fear of the unknown drives pseudoscience (Chapter 5). Your question about “what’s in the vial” taps into availability heuristics, where rare side effects (e.g., anaphylaxis) loom larger than benefits. This also reflects a moral purity concern (Chapter 9), framing vaccines as “toxic” intrusions.
6. Claim: Those who vaccinate are “ignorant” and would question vaccines if they “knew better.”
   • Rebuttal: This oversimplifies a complex issue. Decades of evidence from the CDC, WHO, and peer-reviewed studies (Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence) show vaccines reduce diseases like polio by 99.9%. Rare side effects are monitored via VAERS, with severe reactions in 0.0001% of doses. Your sources, like Turtles All The Way Down and Children’s Health Defense, are criticized for misinformation (Reuters, 2023). Questioning is valid, but informed decisions rely on credible data, not fear-based narratives.
   • Why This Claim Resonates: The Skeptics’ Guide describes the backfire effect (Chapter 7), where challenging beliefs entrenches them. Your insistence that others are “ignorant” reflects a tribal identity (Chapter 9), positioning you as enlightened against a “deceived” majority. This is reinforced by echo chambers (Chapter 8), like anti-vaccine communities citing RFK Jr.

Why the Poster Is Against Vaccines (Skeptics’ Guide Framework)


Using The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe, the poster’s anti-vaccine stance likely stems from the following psychological, social, and informational factors:

1. Cognitive Biases:
   • Confirmation Bias (Chapter 2): The poster seeks evidence supporting vaccine harm (e.g., citing Turtles All The Way Down) while dismissing studies showing safety. Claims like “never placebo tested” cherry-pick technical details to confirm distrust.
   • Anecdotal Fallacy (Chapter 4): The emotive imagery of “holding down” children and “violating innocence” prioritizes vivid narratives over data, making vaccine risks feel more immediate than diseases like measles.
   • Risk Perception Errors (Chapter 5): The poster overestimates rare vaccine risks (e.g., “toxic materials”) while downplaying the 1 in 1,000 mortality risk of unvaxinated measles cases, reflecting availability heuristics.
2. Distrust in Science and Institutions:
   • Misunderstanding Science (Chapter 10): The poster’s claim about “no placebo testing” misrepresents ethical trial designs, a common issue when laypeople navigate complex science. The Skeptics’ Guide notes this fuels distrust in experts.
   • Conspiracy Thinking (Chapter 14): Allegations of “massive bonuses” and manufacturer protections suggest a belief in systemic cover-ups by “Big Pharma” and doctors, a hallmark of pseudoscience. The poster’s frustration with “cultural shame” reflects distrust in mainstream narratives.
3. Social and Emotional Drivers:
   • Tribal Identity (Chapter 9): As a father, the poster’s identity is tied to protecting children, aligning with anti-vaccine communities that reject “mainstream” medicine. Calling others “cowards” reinforces this in-group/out-group dynamic.
   • Echo Chambers (Chapter 8): References to Children’s Health Defense and Turtles All The Way Down suggest engagement with anti-vaccine networks, where misinformation is amplified, as seen on platforms like X.
   • Fear-Based Reasoning (Chapter 3): The poster’s language (“devil,” “violence against children”) reflects motivated reasoning driven by fear of harming children, a powerful emotional trigger for parents.
4. Influence of Misinformation:
   • Charismatic Leaders (Chapter 11): The poster’s recommended sources, tied to RFK Jr., leverage charisma to spread anti-vaccine views, as critiqued in the Skeptics’ Guide. These figures exploit distrust, making their narratives compelling.
   • False Balance (Chapter 15): The poster’s call to “question” vaccines may stem from media amplifying fringe views, creating a false equivalence between science and skepticism, as seen in coverage of vaccine debates.
   • Cherry-Picking (Chapter 13): Claims about legal protections and bonuses selectively use facts to paint a distorted picture, ignoring the VICP’s compensation role or the modest nature of incentives.

Addressing the Poster’s Concerns


The Skeptics’ Guide advocates empathetic, evidence-based communication to counter misinformation (Chapter 17). Your passion for your children’s safety is commendable, but vaccines are not the enemy. They’ve eradicated smallpox and nearly eliminated polio, with rigorous safety protocols ensuring risks are minimal (WHO, 2024). I encourage you to:

• Explore credible sources like the CDC (About Vaccines for your Children) or WHO for transparent data.
• Discuss concerns with a trusted pediatrician to clarify ingredients and risks.
• Evaluate sources critically; Turtles All The Way Down is not peer-reviewed, unlike studies in journals like The Lancet.
• Recognize that questioning is healthy, but conclusions should align with evidence, not fear.

Conclusion


Your post reflects deep concern for children but relies on misinformation, such as exaggerated claims about bonuses, secrecy, and untested vaccines. Evidence from the CDC, WHO, and FDA shows vaccines are safe, effective, and transparent, with rare risks managed by systems like VAERS and VICP. The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe explains your stance as driven by cognitive biases (confirmation bias, risk misperception), distrust in institutions, and social reinforcement from anti-vaccine communities. As a father, your desire to protect your children is universal; grounding that instinct in scientific evidence will best serve their health and future.





Key Citations

• Novella, S., Novella, B., Gorenfeld, J., Santa Maria, C., & Bernstein, E. (2018). The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe: How to Know What’s Really Real in a World Increasingly Full of Fake. Grand Central Publishing.
• Vaccine Safety: Examine the Evidence
• Vaccines and Immunization: Vaccine Safety
• Common Ingredients in FDA-Approved Vaccines
• Types of Vaccine Ingredients
• About the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
• Posts exaggerate insurance incentives for child vaccinations
• The impact of physician bonuses
• Vaccine Ingredients
• Vaccine Basics
• About Vaccines for your Children
• Fact Check: Michigan incentive program

This response directly refutes the post’s claims with evidence, while using Skeptics’ Guide to explain the poster’s beliefs as a mix of cognitive biases, distrust, and social influences, offering a balanced and empathetic approach to encourage critical thinking.

 

[Antifragile]

Health experts be like:

Smoking is healthy
Asbestos is safe
Radiation is safe
White bread is great
Pesticides are safe
Infant formula better than breastfeeding
Margarine better than butter
Eggs are bad
Opioids are non-addictive

Zero to worry about with vaccines though. For sure for sure.

We don’t need any vaccines!

Counter point:

Smallpox
• Measles
• Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
• Polio

 

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[Fox]

We don’t need any vaccines!

Counter point:

Smallpox
• Measles
• Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
• Polio

Didn't say not needed, just that now very hard to trust / highly likely some issues from having so many of them.



I am all good with my kid not having 25 injections in their first 10 years.

 

[Antifragile]

Didn't say not needed, just that now very hard to trust / highly likely some issues from having so many of them.

View attachment 66073

I am all good with my kid not having 25 injections in their first 10 years.

That’s my issue with this thread. It seems to read all or nothing. Mom’s milk cures polio! Nope.

Where is the balanced discussion?

Here in Canada we as parents get to choose which (if any) vaccines we give our children. Most are administered by nurses (only out of convenience we’d choose a doctor during a regular visit). And after a conversation on which vaccines we want, we get them.

I’m a parent like you, I’ve rejected some vaccines, accepted others.

That’s a balanced approach.

Anyone saying anything to the extreme isn’t being rational.

Not all vaccines are bad. Not all vaccines are good.

And let’s not get emotional here with graphic mental images of “hurting our babies” because they cried.

 

[AceVentures]

Like I said.

There’s those that understand the harms of these products, and then there’s everybody else.

Your balanced and nuanced approach seems rational, except it’s not an educated take.

Your appeal to authority isn’t a rationale, it’s a belief not rooted in fact.

@Antifragile you want to talk about reason? Go find out what’s in the vials. And then FIND THE SAFETY STUDIES.

I’m not against vaccines cause I’m an a**hole that doesn’t want my children to be protected. It’s because ive done my homework and found that these products are neither safe nor effective.

Whether you believe that to be true or not should be by your own intelligence, and not because your culture has convinced you otherwise.

For anybody here that thinks there’s a nuanced take on vaccines, I urge you to find the safety studies. Until then, feel free to eat shit and I will continue to rightly call you a coward.

 

[Antifragile]

Like I said.

There’s those that understand the harms of these products, and then there’s everybody else.

Your balanced and nuanced approach seems rational, except it’s not an educated take.

Your appeal to authority isn’t a rationale, it’s a belief not rooted in fact.

@Antifragile you want to talk about reason? Go find out what’s in the vials. And then FIND THE SAFETY STUDIES.

I’m not against vaccines cause I’m an a**hole that doesn’t want my children to be protected. It’s because ive done my homework and found that these products are neither safe nor effective.

Whether you believe that to be true or not should be by your own intelligence, and not because your culture has convinced you otherwise.

For anybody here that thinks there’s a nuanced take on vaccines, I urge you to find the safety studies. Until then, feel free to eat shit and I will continue to rightly call you a coward.

guess I’ll just repeat myself

We don’t need any vaccines!

Counter point:

Smallpox
• Measles
• Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
• Polio

 

[AceVentures]

guess I’ll just repeat myself

We don’t need any vaccines!

Counter point:

Smallpox
• Measles
• Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
• Polio

Strange, that doesn’t look like a safety study to me. It’s a myth. One so deeply rooted in our culture that questioning it leads to cognitive dissonance.

I can take the heat. I’ve done my homework. I’m confident in my choice.

Go read the book I linked and quit asking Grok to dig through CDCs website as a substitute for critical thinking.

 

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[Antifragile]

Strange, that doesn’t look like a safety study to me. It’s a myth. One so deeply rooted in our culture that questioning it leads to cognitive dissonance.

I can take the heat. I’ve done my homework. I’m confident in my choice.

Go read the book I linked and quit asking Grok to dig through CDCs website as a substitute for critical thinking.

Dude. I was just re-reading Antifragile by Nassim Taleb. First chapter he talks about how in the 16th century people saved themselves from being poisoned by taking small dozen first and building immunity. Eventually we got to vaccines.

Whatever your goals are, you can tell me to eat chit, call me “stupid” in your title, have your kids exposed to diseases that are entirely preventable… it’s your life.

I’m only responding because you are recruiting young souls here.

You are the same guy who loves conspiracy theories! So forgive me if I take what you say with a grain of salt.

 

[AceVentures]

Dude. I was just re-reading Antifragile by Nassim Taleb. First chapter he talks about how in the 16th century people saved themselves from being poisoned by taking small dozen first and building immunity. Eventually we got to vaccines.

Whatever your goals are, you can tell me to eat chit, call me “stupid” in your title, have your kids exposed to diseases that are entirely preventable… it’s your life.

I’m only responding because you are recruiting young souls here.

You are the same guy who loves conspiracy theories! So forgive me if I take what you say with a grain of salt.

Nassim Taleb isn’t a safety study.

Go find the safety studies instead of getting lost in the mythology.

I’m a young parent and there are many other young parents here. I’m trying to inform them so they make the best choice for their children, as I’ve done.

The vaccine myth is propagated by uninformed people who are “concerned about safety”. It’s always how the sheep get fooled, by appeal to safety and authority. “Don’t challenge the science, it’s dangerous!”

Look instead of this back and forth and conspiracy labeling, why don’t you go read the book I linked?

If I’m wrong, then you can revert to your original position. If vaccines are so great, then surely you can read that book and confirm your position.

 

[StrikingViper69]

Health experts be like:

Smoking is healthy
Asbestos is safe
Radiation is safe
White bread is great
Pesticides are safe
Infant formula better than breastfeeding
Margarine better than butter
Eggs are bad
Opioids are non-addictive

Zero to worry about with vaccines though. For sure for sure.

This is a very poor argument. The mistakes of a few does not damn the work of many. To write off the entirety of the medical profession because some people made mistakes is sheer madness.

By the same token we can write off modern physics because the it was once postulated that radio waves moved through the ether. We can write off "The Experts" who advise on how to build bridges... after all, people used to live in mud huts - the fools!

Did you know that a particularly egregious 'mathematician' once tried to have the value of Pi legally changed, so that his theories would be true? In fact, he nearly got away with it, fortunately a mathematician/physicist (I forget which) just happened to be walking past the court room, overheard and intervened.

But you don't question mathematics, right?

Have people with a platform been bribed into talking shit, made decisions based out of fear, or said something just for attention? Of course.

Does this make it harder to figure what's real and what's not? Yes. But this means we have to be even more rigorous in using reason.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

---

For anyone reading this who is feeling impressionable, I urge you to read this read by the OP: EXECUTION - Solving Posture from First Principles

And use that to assess his mental competency. When asked for a shred of scientific evidence for his theories, he responded with "people are engaging with me on Twitter". OP is either delusional or mentally ill.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What happened during COVID and its vax-policy changed me forever.

I will never be the same.

It is that kind of trauma that creates posts and theories like these.

It's the old case of the poison jellybean: If you had a bowl of jellybeans and you knew one of them was poison, would you continue to eat from the bowl?

For me, this is what COVID did - it introduced a poison jellybean and made me question the rest of the bowl, which might actually be fine.

So, I understand the take.

Explore credible sources like the CDC (About Vaccines for your Children) or WHO for transparent data.

LOL, as if the CDC and WHO is credible.

Using this as a counterpoint is like a religious person thumping their bible to prove God.

God doesn't exist? Read your Bible dummy!
My pastor says God exists!

Uh, OK.

It's the same as the government investigating itself and finding no wrong doing.

I'm not suggesting the OP is right -- I tend to be in the nuanced realm like you, but appealing to authorities who have severe conflict of interests does not disprove anything.

Something drastically changed in the last 20 years, well beyond polio, smallpox, and measles.

Anyhoo...
.
.
.
.
.
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@AceVentures -- it is unfortunate but I have to close this thread. Please accept my apologies.

Vaccine debates and/or policy should not be discussed here.

Not because the conversation is not important, or that I disagree with you wholly or in part, but because it simply isn't good for the forum, as you can see here:

OP is either delusional or mentally ill.

You are the same guy who loves conspiracy theories!

Until then, feel free to eat shit and I will continue to rightly call you a coward.

This is just the first page.

As we can see, this topic is a hot barbecue of political red meat.

And we've proven here in 15+ years, hot barbecues might draw the crowds, but they leave everyone with an upset stomach.