Is college completely necessary?

[PL Dubber]

This is just something that I have been wondering. I am not saying I am going to dropout of college or anything. But it was just a question, because the only people that I see that make it to millionaires that haven't gone to college...are the people that make it REALLY REALLY big. Like Dana White and the UFC. It seems to me that if you don't go to college you better have a really good idea, or you better know where you are investing.

This leads me to my next question, how many successful people on this forum didn't go to college but are still making good money?

 

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[SteveO]

That is a loaded question.

Going to college will not make you less capable of making money. Quite the opposite.

There are plenty of majors that will give you valuable tools to help you on your way.

Besides those tools, school can prepare you for a job that makes good money. This can be utilized to spring you into your investment stage in life.

 

[andviv]

We have discussed this topic a few times already here in the forum. Do a search, you will see a lot of discussion around this.

In my opinion, college became the necessary step for a high paying job.

People are mostly studying something because that career provides them better chances of landing a good salary.

Few others are going to college to learn and study about a topic they like and enjoy.

What is your major? what are you studying? Why that?

 

[CVentures1B12]

Agreed. I guess there needs to be a background before I can answer.

I wanted to go to college. It was a mix of "you need to" from the parents, and me really REALLY wanting too. I come from a very small town where they actually told me not to apply to the school I wanted to attend because I wouldn't get in. Well...I got in, plus a 90% scholarship...showed them. I learned more about myself, the world, people, and everything in general throughout college, I would not trade those days for anything. Sure, it would have been great if I knew then what I know now (investing, money, etc) but if that were the case, I would not be where I am today.

As for college, there are many answers to that question. If it is money you are asking, no, its not COMPLETELY necessary to make money. If it is success, it is not necessary for success because success is defined differently to different people.

I was the first to graduate from college on my father's side and second on my mother's side of the family. They all thought I would be the first doctor in the family. I hated chemistry. So I graduated with a double major in English and German, two subjects I LOVED. My dad didn't talk to me for a few months actually...but my success wasn't going to be determined on what everyone else expected of me...it was determined by what I wanted and what I dreamed.

My sister tried college, it wasn't for her. Does that mean she won't be successful, not at all. Does that mean she won't have money? Not at all. Henry Ford dropped out of eighth grade...

Now, all that said, I guess the clear answer is no, college is not necessary; HOWEVER, is it fun? Absolutely. Is it beneficial? More than you know, about 70% of my network of successful people graduated from the same school I attended, that helps out in more ways than you know. Do I recommend it? Yes. By taking classes I did not want to take, doing things that I wanted to do and not what everyone else expected me to do, I was able to evolve, grow, change, and mold myself into the person that I am today. The person that I WANT TO BE. Even though I don't make much money...in my mind, I am successful.

Stick to it, learn, read, stay on this forum and when you get out, you will be leaps and bounds ahead of your classmates.

Sorry for the super long post...this is a big subject for me, haha.

Best,
Josh

 

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[fanocks2003]

This is just something that I have been wondering. I am not saying I am going to dropout of college or anything. But it was just a question, because the only people that I see that make it to millionaires that haven't gone to college...are the people that make it REALLY REALLY big. Like Dana White and the UFC. It seems to me that if you don't go to college you better have a really good idea, or you better know where you are investing.

This leads me to my next question, how many successful people on this forum didn't go to college but are still making good money?

I am one of those dropouts and I am making money. If you go to college or not has no meaning whatsoever. How you think around value creation and money has a value. There are many people who go to business school but end up broke. There are also many people who go to business school and become multi millionaries, even billionaires.

It has all to do who you are up here (pointing at my head). For the idea that you would get any headstart by going to college is just balony as far I see it. Yes, you get some information that you could just as easily have learnt by reading a book in the library for free. Not trying to bash anyone, just stating the fact as far as I see it.

If you are naturally a smart guy or gal, then you will make it with or without college. If you are a naturally stupid and dumb human being you will end up broke and homeless no matter if you go to college or not. See it as natural selection or whatever (I know, you can bash me for that comment. It's harsh I know, but nature is harsh. And we all know it).

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Here is a similar thread about college/MBA's ...

http://www.thefastlanetomillions.co...ane-plan/17950-future-planning-ambitions.html

The comments made there, apply here -- albeit, I think 4 years of college gives you a well rounded education as well as life skills -- just know where you want to go, and where you don't. I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and that if I entered corporate America, it would be difficult to get out.

 

[rocksolid]

I am not a college graduate but everybody has different circumstances. I was on my own with no support when I was 17 years old. I never grew up with having to set goals in life which I believe are very important because without setting a goal you don’t have a path to go down. There have been plenty of successful people who hit the big time without a degree, Bill Gates comes to mind. You need to ask yourself what are your goals in life and how do you plan to get there? Will a degree make it a smoother path for you to reach that goal? As for me, when I was young I made money while my friends went to college but in the long run they are doing better today than I am. IMO college is worth going through. It will teach you to be discipline and may introduce you to things that you would never have been otherwise. It’s only 4 years which is very short but could have a positive impact for the rest of your LIFE. It’s good to have a fall back plan. You never know what curve balls life will throw at you in the future. I am married with one child and live in NY. I am the bread winner because my wife needs to stay home and take care of our son who is a special needs child and we get by ok, but not as good as I would like to. I think people with a degree are taken more seriously and I know they make more money then somebody who just has High School, trust me on that one. You have to be very creative and have a strong drive to be successful without a degree. That is what drives me to continue to be successful, failure is not an option and I will grab the brass ring one day.

 

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[NoMoneyDown]

Strictly MHO ... Many people who haven't gone to college believe that you are there to learn about, what eventually will become, a chosen career choice. And that is indeed true. However, one of the more bigger things college prepares you for is to learn how to think. No doubt this is something many who haven't gone to college or have gone but not completely through have attained as well.

Before I went to college, I remember having negative thoughts about spending endless hours for English, and literature, and History, and Government courses. All I wanted was to get broader knowledge in my chosen field: computer science. As it turned out, I found that the NON-computer related courses broadened my thinking a LOT more than the computer related ones.

Again, it's a personal choice that each individual must make. However, I will tell you this hint ... Take a Philosophy 101 course at the beginning from a very touted professor.

 

[marktech101]

If you are naturally a smart guy or gal, then you will make it with or without college. If you are a naturally stupid and dumb human being you will end up broke and homeless no matter if you go to college or not. See it as natural selection or whatever (I know, you can bash me for that comment. It's harsh I know, but nature is harsh. And we all know it).

Heh heh. Yes, this is harsh, but confidence-inspiring. Well said.

 

[PEERless]

I got my BA in business, and I am glad I have it. See Take Control of Your Continuing Education for more thoughts on self-guided education.

 

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[TaxGuy]

I'll chime in on this and will most likely sound like Josh b/c our college experiences are very similar :smxB:

As far as college goes my dad was the only one on his side to get a degree and on my mom's side it was her nephew so I was an exception and had the same intentions- part "make the parents proud"(although they fully supported me on the several instances where I wanted to drop out) and part "this will have an impact on MY life and where I want to go". My original major was mechanical engineering which was three-fold:

1) I loved cars, math and science so it seemed like a no brainer.

2) I knew that would lead to a high paying job out of school(my dream job was for Porsche- favorite car + german heritage), which even then I saw as a stepping stone to get to where I really wanted to be- owning my own tuning shop or possibly starting my own car company

3) I wanted to make a difference- whether it was making a high performance "green" car or just designing cars with the techs and DIY mechanics(like myself) in mind I knew I needed this education to truly become an "engineer" vs. a "trial and error garage mechanic", as is the case with most aftermarket tuning shops, including those who specialize in the 3000gt/Stealth(my car for the last 8yrs- see username)

Unfortunately engineering didn't work out, the education was fine but the atmosphere at my first school was very depressing and I had to get out of there, by transferring to U of I I had my work cut out to get into engineering, despite coming from a highly ranked engineering school I realized when I got there that I would've been better off going to the local community college for 2yrs, taking easy blow-off classes and getting the grades needed to xfer(vs. the name on the transcript and lower than the required GPA for xfer :coco. So long story short I xferred to U of I as a German major as a "safety net" and took a few unsuccessful shots at getting into U of I's engineering that ultimately led to finishing my degree in German.

Through it all, I was set back about 5yrs- all the expenses(tuition, student loans, my first CC's, living by myself, etc) and the structure of having to choose school over working on a "plan" have put me where I'm at now: in debt and working to free myself of these burdens to reach the ultimate financial goal - freedom, by this I mean being able to do the things I want on MY time vs. someone elses, not necessarily driving a C-GT or Murcielago OR owning a Larry Ellison sized Yacht, but the ability and means to travel at-will, own a Porsche and Ducati and not have to worry about maintenance/parts, etc. Would I trade the experiences and people I met to be debt free and have a fastlane plan already in action - NO!!! Through college I met my soul-mate, made some life-long friends and had experiences that most will never have in a lifetime :coolgleamA:

So with that in mind, I can see both sides, in fact my uncle is currently the most successful person in my family and he didn't graduate college, but that doesn't mean b/c I graduated I won't achieve and ultimately pass his level of success as long as I don't have the mindset that "I am happy working for someone else, even my uncle, b/c I will make a decent living and have the things in life I need with a few perks". This is the trap most fall into and don't realize until 5-10-15+ yrs down the road that they wasted the best years of their life working for someone else and ultimately accept that fate, now granted that isn't everyone and there are several on here that had a "guiding-light" moment after working in corporate America and my hat's off to you b/c employers are good at one thing- paying you just enough to make you not want to quit and as such have been able to retain many bright minds that could've become entrepreneurs themselves!


Sorry for the long post, but all said and done, that's my .02...

 

[hakrjak]

I think college is becoming more and more necessary to land you a high paying job that will get you the seed money to launch your business / investments.

About 10 years ago when I graduated, having a college degree was a big deal -- but now it seems like everybody has one, so it's practically a pre-req just to get hired anywhere.

While you can certainly start your own business and make money without a degree -- it helps to become well rounded and well educated from the get-go. You'll meet people and discuss / argue things hat you had never even thought about, and I believe that helps your mind grow. At the very least, when you do become wealthy -- you'll be able to present yourself well and not come across as ignorant or gruff at cocktail parties

Cheers,

- Hakrjak

 

[Andrew]

MJ asked me to reply to this thread, and I think I might be able to provide some helpful ideas. I've posted about this on various boards before but I believe this is probably the best way I have articulated things yet.

This is not a question with a yes/not good/bad answer. The answer depends on you, and you alone. College is something that you should think through thoroughly -- especially if your parents are not bankrolling your whole tuition.

Now here is my most up to date story and why you should pay attention to what I write:

I'm 23 years old. I went to college for a general business degree. It was a small university and my tuition was totally free short of books. I dropped out halfway through Junior year. One year later, before I would have even graduated, I hired my first employee. For the next phase of growth (brought on a very qualified and great business partner recently) I am pouring over the resumes of former investment bank employees (staffing is done in Manhattan.)

The point is not going to college doesn't mean you won't be able to find a job -- heck, you might even become an employer.

Now that doesn't mean college isn't for you. When I dropped out of college my social life was basically zero for 6 to 9 months. It was not particularly enjoyable. All I did was worked and I had bad carpel tunnel symptoms by the time summer rolled around. One way or the other you are likely going to need to work very hard without a degree; certainly forget about 40 hour work weeks.

I have had a pretty clear vision in terms of the direction I was headed in; if you don't, you could drop out and likely end up working at McDonalds in 12 months.

Before I say the good stuff about college, I will say the bad. This is just based on personal observation and other people's opinions may differ.

Having a college degree is not a safety net. I've never really believed in "having something to fall back on." Giving the current state of the economy, and massive waves of layoffs of very qualified and skilled employees, I think other people are learning this the hard way now.

If you get the wrong college degree it can be even worse. I have a good friend who got a degree from an art school and last I heard had a $10 an hour security guard job. The student loan debt and misdirection can really hinder your most basic standards of living.

There are some other negative aspects which I'm not sure college is to blame for or not. Most no-degree billionaires tend to be drop outs and rather than "never went" people. I think the focus and ability to walk away from something like an ivy league school may be a reflection of an existing personality trait rather than something, that by doing it, turns you into a success. It was no ivy league school for me, but it was a free ride, so the experience did come with a pretty hefty potential price tag if I decided to return.

That said I really enjoyed college. I did not enjoy grade school or high school, but college was lots of fun. At some point I figured out it would be school or my business (I had the business while I was in school, another extremely important thing to consider.) Dropping out was hard to do and took me a full semester to take the decision. The second day of second semester of Junior year and realised I was completely removed from the college environment and thinking on a completely different and unrelated level. I knew there was only one choice for me to make, and that was it.

Bottom line, if you have a profitable company right now, are in college, and believe that your future is hindered by being in college, drop out. If not, you may want to stick around. Haven't enrolled yet? Make sure your degree can pay for itself, at the very least. I don't hire people without college degrees.

 

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[TaxGuy]

Great post and here's some personal experience feedback on the best points:

Having a college degree is not a safety net. I've never really believed in "having something to fall back on." Giving the current state of the economy, and massive waves of layoffs of very qualified and skilled employees, I think other people are learning this the hard way now.

After I closed my biz in May, I thought "Hey, I got a degree, have some work experience and owned my own business, who wouldn't want to hire me?". Well the reality of the economy as well as my own stubborness meant that the only offer out there was a cashier job(after deleting all the emails from bogus opps and MLM scams :smx4

If you get the wrong college degree it can be even worse. I have a good friend who got a degree from an art school and last I heard had a $10 an hour security guard job. The student loan debt and misdirection can really hinder your most basic standards of living.

Cost of German degree(tuition, expenses, interest, etc) - $100k+

Highest offer for any jobs in this field- ~$35k/yr(~$2k/mo take home after taxes), keep in mind Chicago is pretty high up in cost of living index and it is very easy to have basic living expenses top $3k/month :nonod:

I don't hire people without college degrees.

This has become the reality :smxB:

In today's society with many major purchases, investments and even employment opportunities hinging on your "profile" whether it's credit score or credentials(degree, certifications, skills, etc) as well as the fact that the % of Americans with degrees is skyrocketing, having a degree has become more of a pre-requisite than a bonus which makes life much more different from when people like Henry Ford or even Bill Gates dropped out of school to start their empires...

 

[White8]

In today's world a degree has become so common that it tends to be helpful on a resume whether you're applying for a job or financing for a business.

However...

From a practical standpoint you will only get out of an education what you put into it whether it be from a top university or toilet U. I admit, I used rote memorization for the classes such as English that didn't interest me and therefore didn't learn much but the business classes were a different story.

 

[hatterasguy]

You need to come across as an educated, well polished person to function and be taken seriously at high levels of business. Communication is key, and college level courses can help you with that. This is an area where I am deficient in and I need to correct it. Having said that I know one very intelligent person who never got past the 8th grade. But he is a true genius and has self taught himself. I cannot read one of his emails without a very good dictionary handy. His comand of the English language is truely delightfull. I think this is very rare, I hardly every come across people like this. I also know moron's with college degree's, from good schools.

I'll leave it at that, IMHO their is no one size fits all answer to this.

 

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[PL Dubber]

Thanks for the awesome responses guys. One thing that I noticed is that people usually only mention and talk about the people that make it really BIG that didn't go to college. I am interested in people that are doing great...but don't have that celebrity status. I would be more than happy making 200k-300k a year. I just need to find a way to do that.
I will totally continue to go to college and graduate because I want to and I would really like it, especially because I go to UConn which is a top ranked public university and number 1 in New England.
I know what you guys mean when you say that I will learn and talk about things that I normally wouldn't. Philosophy was a really interesting and kind of cool class and it wasn't even a requirement.
I was just curious to see what you guys thought, I think having a job after college would be fun and a great experience. The only thing is, I don't know if that is what I am going to do. The chances are that I will. I can't completely decide what I want as a major. Of course business is really high up there on my choices, but I see kids going for all sorts of Engineering and keep talking about how much money they are going to make. They talk about how rich they will be and how much all sorts of Engineers make just starting off out of college. They have the highest salaries starting off....and to be honest...this in a way makes me jelous. Because I haven't chosen a path, and I am a really smart kid. I am what fanocks2003 calls "naturally smart", I have always been told by teachers. All of them said the same "He is extremly smart...but lazy" Yes, I admit, I was and still am lazy in school. But when it comes to this forum and learning about business....I could do it all day. I am not lazy at all because it interests me so much. But it also worries me because not all businesses are successful and you aren't garunteed money. So as of right now, I am not sure what I want to do, but I see the doors are open. I just hate physics and chemistry...which are the basics for engineering.

 

[rocksolid]

Just make sure to be true to yourself. I have friends that make a lot of money but have no time for their kids and they are not very happy at their jobs, they are just driven by money. Then I have friends that live in a log cabin and are 20 miles away from any stores or shopping. They work for peanuts as teachers and are very content and happy and trust me when I say they are very smart and would make a ton of money if they moved closer to the city. I guess my point is money does not rule the world. You know what we say here on the board, fix a problem and the money will come. Whatever job you decide on make sure it is something you enjoy and you will do very well. I always say that the 20's are for learning about what you want to be, the 30's are for executing your plan and the 40's is for a mid life change and you do something else altogether, lol. Life is short make sure you enjoy every moment!

 

[hatterasguy]

Not to rain on your parade but, the upper 1% of the US population makes more than $300k a year. (correct me please if my numbers are wrong)

Don't assume you will make it "big". Go to school, get a good job, get your footing and start to invest and go for it, if you want.

People like Bill Gates are the exception to the rule. Don't bank on it, its no different than banking on becoming a rock star or professional sports player of some sort.

 

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[hatterasguy]

I was going to say being in the right place, at the right time, with the right skills, and idea. Call it what you want.

 

[Jill]

Completely necessary? No. Helpful? Of course.

I can't speak as someone making $300+ without a college degree, because I have one. BUT, I honestly believe that someone with a good mind, personal confidence and basic communication skills could do the exact same thing that I do withOUT a degree. My degree is in Finance. I don't use that training at all, in any way, in my job. I do think that I would have an advantage over someone who's never been exposed to basic concepts of business, human resources (my field of specialty) or project work as I was in college. BUT, they could still make it. I'm a business analyst, though. Not as important for a technical resource.

In fact, I come across kids on every project, many of whom took a clerical type job right out of high school, who now work in HR departments of huge corporations. I could rattle off a list of a dozen of them who I think could be a consultant and instantly quadruple their incomes overnight. In all but one case that I've mentioned it to them, they've all said, "Nah, I've got it pretty good here. Besides I like the security, and I'd have to pay for my own benefits. Besides, if I stay here another year, my $5k retention bonus will be fully vested!" ARGH! I try to explain that they could make that much next week! Their health insurance expenses will be taken care of before noon on the first Monday of the month! Frustrating to me, but I guess I'm trying to explain that even with the skillset, they're lacking the drive. That can't be taught in college, although sometimes it can be "caught" by hanging around other success-oriented people.

Most contract requisitions that come across my desk cite "college degree" as a requirement. But I honestly don't recall a hiring managers ever asking me about it in the past 11 years. If you become very good at doing something, build and maintain a network of credible contacts who will gladly vouch for the quality of your work, then present yourself professionally, you can do most anything without a degree.

Note: Obvious exceptions are those requiring specialized technical knowledge such as medicine, engineering, etc.

 

[20art]

Completely necessary? No. Helpful? Of course.

I can't speak as someone making $300+ without a college degree, because I have one. BUT, I honestly believe that someone with a good mind, personal confidence and basic communication skills could do the exact same thing that I do withOUT a degree. My degree is in Finance. I don't use that training at all, in any way, in my job. I do think that I would have an advantage over someone who's never been exposed to basic concepts of business, human resources (my field of specialty) or project work as I was in college. BUT, they could still make it. I'm a business analyst, though. Not as important for a technical resource.

In fact, I come across kids on every project, many of whom took a clerical type job right out of high school, who now work in HR departments of huge corporations. I could rattle off a list of a dozen of them who I think could be a consultant and instantly quadruple their incomes overnight. In all but one case that I've mentioned it to them, they've all said, "Nah, I've got it pretty good here. Besides I like the security, and I'd have to pay for my own benefits. Besides, if I stay here another year, my $5k retention bonus will be fully vested!" ARGH! I try to explain that they could make that much next week! Their health insurance expenses will be taken care of before noon on the first Monday of the month! Frustrating to me, but I guess I'm trying to explain that even with the skillset, they're lacking the drive. That can't be taught in college, although sometimes it can be "caught" by hanging around other success-oriented people.

Most contract requisitions that come across my desk cite "college degree" as a requirement. But I honestly don't recall a hiring managers ever asking me about it in the past 11 years. If you become very good at doing something, build and maintain a network of credible contacts who will gladly vouch for the quality of your work, then present yourself professionally, you can do most anything without a degree.

Note: Obvious exceptions are those requiring specialized technical knowledge such as medicine, engineering, etc.

Thank you Jill, because thats the way I sort of see things and that just made me feel more comfortable with my thoughts.

See I watched a lot of movies where the character grows big and gets a lot of money(Scarface, Goodfellas..etc.). So in a way, its like saying if you have the drive and are determined to get to a real high level, you can just do it.

Of course the movies involved illegal ways but I think it still goes for anything else.

 

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[PEERless]

many people have the capacity to be successful, but to be "Bill Gates successful" takes a both a lot of skill and a lot of luck...

(I'll probably get bashed for saying it takes any luck whatsoever, so do me a favor...before bashing me, make your first $10B and THEN tell me it didn't take any luck)

No bashing here! I agree 100%. You have to be Luck-Struck!

 

[hatterasguy]

Nah I don't think its luck.

 

[djs13]

Don't assume you will make it "big". Go to school, get a good job, get your footing and start to invest and go for it, if you want.

I think everyone has their own individual plan, but I definitely don't think it's out of reach to make a successful business during or shortly after college. $10B big? Probably not. But it's definitely not unthinkable to take a different path than the job route and be able to make it as a young entrepreneur. That's what guys like Gates and Dell did, and if I recall correctly that's exactly what MJ did too.

But it should be noted it sounds like you're talking about "investing" and I'm talking about start-up business.

 

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[hatterasguy]

Its the same difference. Nothing wrong with working for yourself, and starting a business. But having a plan B is important. With a good degree your plan B can be a decent job, and not asking someone if they want fries with that.

Its tough to start a business, more so in todays crappy economy.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

That's what guys like Gates and Dell did, and if I recall correctly that's exactly what MJ did too.

Nice to put put in the same sentence with these guys ... thanks ... however, I did go to college and graduated with 2 degrees, one Finance the other Marketing.

I like to preach that college isn't necessary, but I WILL NEVER know if I'd be where I am today without it. I graduated college a very different person than when I began, as most people do. It is a very personal decision that only you can make.

 

[marktech101]

Nice to put put in the same sentence with these guys ... thanks ... however, I did go to college and graduated with 2 degrees, one Finance the other Marketing.

I like to preach that college isn't necessary, but I WILL NEVER know if I'd be where I am today without it. I graduated college a very different person than when I began, as most people do. It is a very personal decision that only you can make.

Personally, I've decided to go to college. I've made no commitment to graduate; I'm just planning on attending until I come up with an idea with enough promise for me to drop out.

I do want to get a great education; I just don't want to be indoctrinated with the slowlane mindset that dominates most public and engineering universities. Hopefully being an active member of this forum will serve as a reminder that there's something more!

 

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[PEERless]

I WILL NEVER know if I'd be where I am today without it.

Quite right! That's one philosophy lesson that can make your mind spin, like the Oracle tripping Neo out about breaking the vase.

I'm just planning on attending until I come up with an idea with enough promise for me to drop out.

I don't like this strategy, because it sounds so defeatist. I know too many people who say something similar about their current sh__ job: "Oh, I'm just doing this to pay the bills." If you want to go to college, sweet. Go. But don't waste your time and money (or your parents' money or the government's money) just to bide your time.

 

[TaxGuy]

Quite right! That's one philosophy lesson that can make your mind spin, like the Oracle tripping Neo out about breaking the vase.

I don't like this strategy, because it sounds so defeatist. I know too many people who say something similar about their current sh__ job: "Oh, I'm just doing this to pay the bills." If you want to go to college, sweet. Go. But don't waste your time and money (or your parents' money or the government's money) just to bide your time.

Speaking of Oracle(different kind of course)... Larry Ellison is a dropout of my alma mater :smxB:


As Skyler and MJ are saying, it's an involved decision, there are life changing experiences you have in college that go beyond the GPA and the books, but it's a major financial and time commitment that is not completely necessary if you have the right mindset and drive to succeed, just don't get sucked into a slowlane life whether or not you decide to go to school, stay who you are and be who you want to be, not who anyone else, even us on the forums here, want you to be.