If the American Dream is dead...

[Graves]

...where are the new "Lands of the Free ?"

(Please don't take the title at face value, I mainly wanted to make it attention-grabbing )
____
So it looks to me the USA aren't what they used to be in terms of freedom and true capitalism - which is pretty bad for me, because when a few years ago I still had this ideal picture of the USA in my mind and naturally wanted to move there.

However, there must be some countries that are both paragons of freedom and easy to move to (ie not Switzerland or Cayman Islands).
Does anyone here live/know about some of those countries ?
I've read about Hong Kong / Singapore being the most free countries from various sources and rankings. I also know a lot of companies set up their offices in Ireland.

This is a serious question.

 

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[taichijedi]

Ireland was a corporate draw due to extremely low taxes, however they are having a wee bit of financial difficulty on the national level at the moment, so I don't know if you want to head off to the Emerald Isle just yet.

 

[Bozigian]

Akitoes, where are your from originally?

I remember back in high school when we would visit colleges and universities.
I remember our teacher saying, people leave their life and families behind to come to school here and get a good job.

I remember seeing an lovely indian girl folding her bed sheets in her dorm room. And I told myself, I hope she does good in life leaving family behind and everything as the sacrifce.

The thought of getting a job right after college was a dream for some people

It aint like that no more.

 

[Sparlin]

Akitoes's title is interesting because he is young and from a different country. Does he accurately reflect the sentiment of non Americans? We were once a "Shining City on a Hill". A nation of equal opportunity and freedom. Do others think that city has declined into obsolescence?

I think the question for us is how do we revive the American Dream? Is it enough to pursue our own endeavors? or should values such as being entrepreneurial be aggressively promoted? If the kids today aren't taught to embrace self reliance and be risk takers, does it mean their dreams of prosperity will never have a chance? There will always be extraordinary people who defy the odds and rise regardless of circumstance, but for society as a whole, what can keep the average Joe inspired?

Is there a "need" for this kind of education and what can be done to fulfill it? The Fastlane Book and forum are examples of what can be done. What else ...... ?

 

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[Graves]

Akitoes, where are your from originally?

France

I think we need - not just in America but the world - to change the image that is given of entrepreneurship. - "it's a risky all-or-nothing thing reserved for ultrageniuses and I'm better off not looking into that".

Sure, maybe only 10->20% (I think that's probably the max) of the population are suited to become entrepreneurs. But right now most of those people don't know entrepreneurship even exists - I didn't until I started educating myself.
In my opinion, having these potential producers and innovators work where their contribution to society is highest would create tremendous growth for the world's economy.

P-S : I think it's impossible to completely talk about education or freedom without using the word "government" at some point - does there really need to be a "no political content" rule on this forum ? I mean, it's necessary for most forums (obvious reasons), but I think this one can be an exception - If only because I'd guess most of us have the same beliefs.

 

[taichijedi]

Akitoes's title is interesting because he is young and from a different country. Does he accurately reflect the sentiment of non Americans? We were once a "Shining City on a Hill". A nation of equal opportunity and freedom. Do others think that city has declined into obsolescence?

I think the question for us is how do we revive the American Dream? Is it enough to pursue our own endeavors? or should values such as being entrepreneurial be aggressively promoted? If the kids today aren't taught to embrace self reliance and be risk takers, does it mean their dreams of prosperity will never have a chance? There will always be extraordinary people who defy the odds and rise regardless of circumstance, but for society as a whole, what can keep the average Joe inspired?

Is there a "need" for this kind of education and what can be done to fulfill it? The Fastlane Book and forum are examples of what can be done. What else ...... ?

We neglect the financial literacy of our culture as a whole, and it shows. The whole sub prime mess was over-lending, poor documentation, and UNEDUCATED CONSUMERS. I knew how mortgages worked when I was 13 years old, and was astonished 15 years later to discover how many people my age didn't even know what amortization was. This lack of theoretical understanding can be a serious detractor to one's ability to succeed, and an enslavement if they fall into the arena of someone who will use that ignorance for their own profitability.

I think the youth need "boots on the ground" training in this sort of thing, outside of that realm of theoretical knowledge. I can read a library's worth of books on karate and kung fu, but it doesn't make me a martial artist. We need to imbue that real-world experience into their minds. Are things better for entrepreneurs; sure, they most certainly are. We now have accelerators like the Y Combinator that will help those entrepreneurs grow and develop, but they had to have a fairly successful model to start with. We need to help the youth see how to develop those models, and let them work on it. Let them try, and fail. It will build character, it will help the vet their ideas before attempting them, and they will learn what works and what doesn't. Entrepreneurial education should begin in primary school 7th or 8th grade), while their minds are still fully open, rather than later when some of those creative areas are closed off. Hell, we did a review of a member's niece's website, and she was 12 or 13, so I don't even want to hear that kids aren't capable of learning these things. If anything they are more capable than the rest of us because THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN'T DO!!

Financial Literacy and entrepreneurial training should be available educationally, if not in schools themselves as curriculum then as an after-school program, at a very young age. Theoretically, it would only have to be successful once, then you could use the earning from the first program to capitalize the next; the hard part would be finding the initial capitalization. This type of program could set the foundation for success in its students and enkindle them with an entrepreneurial spirit. Some students would realize this is their element and really do well and enjoy it, and others would know early on that entrepreneurship is not really for them.

I took a class when I was 15, Law and American Technology, and it was divided in two curricula; the first half of the semester we learned the legal system, and the second half we elected members and started and ran a business. I learned, and have drawn upon, more of the lessons from that one class than any other class I have ever taken in my lifetime. Albeit I went to a magnet school, but I certain can see its value in regular curriculum. I think this is the direction that the country needs to head to reclaim it top performance in entrepreneurial recognition.

The rest is going to depend on a renewed vigor towards advances in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) education. Americans have been disincentivized in these fields, primarily due to the fact that for the same amount of mental horsepower required to get an $80,00 engineering job you can get a $400,000 finance job. To most people, it just isn't worth it. There is a reason the 40% of all corporate earnings over the last 10 years came solely from finance.

 

[Graves]

I think the best thing that could be taught in schools is a quality economics education.
But obviously that's not going to happen any time soon

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Would you rather live in a country where you have no rights or freedoms? Would you rather live in Iraq, North Korea, or Benin?

If you can't become rich in a developed country, you can't make it anywhere. There are people fighting and dying all around the world for freedoms and rights that we take for granted.

America was never perfect. Slaves (lol freedom?), horrific segregation (How is that freedom), sweatshops employing children (freedomless once more)... I could go on. America is not perfect now. (nor is there this entrepreneurial Utopia anywhere on earth.)

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim even for a second that any western industrialized country is not free. There is opportunity everywhere! Try opening a business in Zimbabwe, Burma, Equatorial Guinea, Cuba, and elsewhere where dictatorship reigns.

This brings to mind; "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

Don't like the rules? Rules can be changed. Opinions can be swayed.

Sick of doomsdayers and excuse makers. If you can't make it in America, you probably (almost certainly) wouldn't be able to make it anywhere else.

If given the opportunity, I'm positive that there are over 4 billion people on this earth who would give up everything in order to live in a developed country (USA, France, Canada, wherever) where they would enjoy freedoms and rights that they are so horribly deprived of right now.

As for teaching people about entrepreneurship, inspiring, whatever else you're talking about, there are currently hundreds upon thousands of organizations all over the world with extensive resources doing just that.

Perhaps you should join one if you feel so strongly about it.

 

[Graves]

Wow wow wow, not so fast ! I'm not saying you can't make it in [developed country] here - that would be extremely stupid of me.
But if there are better options, it would be equally stupid for me not to consider them.

 

[Bozigian]

If given the opportunity, I'm positive that there are over 4 billion people on this earth who would give up everything in order to live in a developed country (USA, France, Canada, wherever) where they would enjoy freedoms and rights that they are so horribly deprived of right now.

Many people living here in America take their freedom for granted. I dont.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Many people living here in America take their freedom for granted. I dont.

Thank you!

 

[DeletedUser394]

Wow wow wow, not so fast ! I'm not saying you can't make it in [developed country] here - that would be extremely stupid of me.
But if there are better options, it would be equally stupid for me not to consider them.

Seeing as you're not concerned about cultural elements, language barriers, etc, etc, and seem to be only motivated by ease of economic pursuit, I have the list for you;

Ranking of economies - Doing Business - World Bank Group

Enjoy

 

[Bozigian]

Originally Posted by Bozigian
Many people living here in America take their freedom for granted. I dont.
Thank you!

No Ryan, Im being serious about this one.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

No Ryan, Im being serious about this one.

As am I!

We need the youth of today to provide the solutions to problems within their own countries, not to run away from them by moving to another.

 

[taichijedi]

Considering this closing statement, I must assume this was an ad hominem statement.

As for teaching people about entrepreneurship, inspiring, whatever else you're talking about, there are currently hundreds upon thousands of organizations all over the world with extensive resources doing just that.

Perhaps you should join one if you feel so strongly about it.

Or perhaps I shall start my own. It certainly is an idea to entertain and develop. I talked about things that have been noticed in our culture, and developed suggestions for improvement. I included points on economics (disincentivization), the endless possibility inherent in young minds, and ways to train them.

I did not say America is perfect (nowhere is,) I did not say America isn't free (it is the best system going thus far, hence the masses of people trying to come here,) and I most certainly did not make blanket statements about what people can and cannot accomplish.

I merely stated that from an entrepreneurial perspective it would be best if the youth began exploring that option as early as possible. I made no excuses, I merely charted a course for betterment that could be pursued. I assuredly didn't "doomsay."

You sir, however, have chosen to take your platform and use it to denegrate those contributing ideas, and vent your frustration by belittling their contributions and espousing your own ideaology. You are entitled to your opinion, most certainly, but that does not mean I intend to take your invective without rebuttal.

And you have much to learn about the world, Ryan, some things that can only be learned through life experience. At 18, you would be wise to watch who you sass, as I have most likely seen more than you have even contemplated. I hope you take that passion and energy and direct it toward positive goals, and not use it only to tell people how they should or should not feel about anything.

 

[DeletedUser394]

hahah this forum is becoming ridiculous.

I wasn't even replying to you. I couldn't be bothered what you think, who you are, or what you've done.

Considering you have no idea who I am, or what my life experiences have been, I'll just be ignoring your comments, because I value my time much more than to argue with someone I do not know, and will never meet. (thankfully)

I was simply stating my opinion to Akitoes.

First person on my ignore list

 

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[DeletedUser394]

For what it's worth (nothing), I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.

Oh well.

 

[taichijedi]

Interestingly enough, he could have simply said "It wasn't directed at you, and I do agree with your statement."

Unfortunately, he seems to have made my point for me. Sad really, because if he agreed with me, then there are a great many topics we shall never speak on because of his impetuousness.

Best of luck, Ryan. I wish you every success. (Not that he'll ever see this.)

 

[Anon3587x]

All this financial and business knowledge you talk about is taught in private schools, at least from the ones people I know went to.

. . .But I say with unreasonable doubt, anybody with a great mind or dream, will find ways to succeed regardless of circumstance.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Exploding?

Seeing as you all are so knowledgeable, you should be well aware that it is impossible to gauge a person's emotional state when making a post over the internet.

My original post was written with a perfectly clear head. I was simply stating my opinion. I don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about that.

In my last reply to taichijedi, yes I was upset. Not even close to 'exploding', but it did bother me a bit. Why? Because I felt he was personally insulting me. Where did his post come from? A simple misunderstanding, and I apologize for that.

I find him/her to be somewhat pompous, as I do you Ryan. But yet, how can you judge a person's character over a semi-anonymous forum? You can't, which is why I place little value on my perception of you.

Even now as I'm writing this I'm not angry. It baffles me why this continues.

There are far bigger things to be concerned about than this.

In any case, I never placed him on the ignore list.

 

[Sparlin]

Gentlemen,

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again. The purpose of this forum is to be educational, supportive of other members, social, and professional. Granted, there are many people here from all walks of life and differing in ages. Due to this there will most certainly be different opinions which lead to arguments. There is no problem as long as the arguments are factual debates. It becomes a problem when attacks become personal (even indirect or passive comments).

From a mod's point of view, if someone says something out of line they will be addressed either by PM or here in the thread. For those who are offended by comments, I understand being defensive, but sometimes adding opinions as to how inappropriate something is only serves to fuel tempers. This is a reminder that even established members (myself included) are only guests here. Let's keep the bar high and the high school squabbling none existent.

I know it seems harsh, but is the 3 rd time this week this topic has been addressed. Please remember, MJ's worked hard to build a good brand. Let's try to respect that.

Thanks guys

 

[DeletedUser394]

'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sparlin again.'

I completely agree, thank you for posting this.

Personal attacks (whether direct or indirect) have no place on this forum.

 

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[Sparlin]

Ryan I appreciate it brother, honestly, but you are also stirring the pot today.

Now let's direct the energy back to the original topic,

What can be done to encourage entrepreneurship in America and other struggling countries?

 

[DeletedUser394]

I openly acknowledge that, and accept full responsibility. I should have been the bigger person and simply left it as it was.

I'll know better next time.

Back to topic.

 

[taichijedi]

Too true, Bateati, but I believe that this curriculum could be beneficial even in the public school system. In fact, I feel it may almost be more necessary to have it in public school systems. My reasoning is this:

If you are attending a private school, your family may already have money, and quite possibly a fastlane mindset. I am not trying to overgeneralize, but private schools are expensive, so the case is either the aforementioned or an "ultimate sacrifice" of sorts to cover the student's tuition. If the student comes into school with a fastlane mindset that they have been indoctrinated with from their homelife, then the curriculum simply reinforces what the already learned.

A public school student usually comes from a lower socioeconomic demographic. These are the very people who have not been exposed to entrepreneurship, and/or would know very little about it, and who very well could be just as successful at it as others (taking into account their circumstances.). What's more, many of these student's parents have nothing in the way of a fastlane mentality, generally live paycheck to paycheck (or worse sometimes,) and as such are not setting an example or even planting the seeds of entrepreneurship. These are the young people who potentially have the most to gain from these sorts of training programs, but they would have a high failure rate due to cultural barriers (see the thread "Is Your Family an Obstacle" for more on this.)

It would be a long process, potentially taking decades, but if properly implemented it could change significantly the socioeconomic demographics of some areas.

 

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[taichijedi]

I openly acknowledge that, and accept full responsibility. I should have been the bigger person and simply left it as it was.

I'll know better next time.

Back to topic.

My apologies to you also, Ryan. I perhaps was brash and overzealous in the defense of my assertion, and thought that my rebuttal was lucid and well thought out. I hope you will accept this apology, and allow us to move forward amicably.

Also, my apologies to MJ if required. I most certainly meant no disrespect, as I value highly this forum, its members, and its mission, which is why I frequently direct people towards it.

I will try to stay on topic.

 

[Bozigian]

Pretty impressive vocabulary their taichijedi

No im not bashing on you

 

[taichijedi]

Thanks Bozigian. Being a International Business/Legal Studies major will do that to you.

 

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[Anon3587x]

I come from one of those low level income houses you speak of taichijedi.

I remember when I first started learning what an entrepreneur was I was shocked.

I didn't even know what the word 'entrepreneur' meant until a year ago. I felt like the definition suited me perfectly and ever since everything has been a real eye opener for me.

It makes me really angry with a few certain people, but I'm not in the business of blaming anyone for anything anymore.

 

[Bozigian]

Go read the WoW and EQOA forums lmao

I didnt play World of Warcraft but I played this game called Phantasy Star Online and I spent most of my teenage life on it. I was addicted and could not get off of it.

Now, when I look back, I could have been doing something more productive then playing games all day.