I Feel Trapped in a Family Business

[webedgemedia]

Let me begin by saying that I've been thinking about posting this for a couple weeks now, and finally decided that it's time. I'll try to keep this as short and sweet as possible. I know time is valuable, so greatly appreciate you taking the time to read this post.

About 6-7 years ago I left my low-level job at a local hospital, and decided to go into business with my father. I'll avoid getting into specifics, but my father had a line of products that he built and sold primarily on Craiglist. I knew there were opportunities for growth in the niche with a website and social media, so I went to work building a simple website and helping grow the brand's exposure. Flash forward to 2019 and the business has grown significantly. Our little team of 3, with a small advertising budget and not perfect branding has managed to build a business that brings in about 200K in revenue. We saw about about a 30% jump in sales in 2018, but this year have seen about a 5-10% decline in the numbers.

Now we get to the major issue at hand: the relationship between my father and I has become worse every year. I no longer feel like the man is my father. We ONLY discuss the business. Even around the holidays he only chats with me about the biz. He's at an age where most men are retiring from their 9-5 jobs, but his life of poor financial decisions has left him operating with less than 10k in savings.

Another thing that is scary about my father is his violent, fast-changing temper, mixed with impulsive behavior. I feel for him. I see a man beaten down by his bad choices, and it's making him more and more bitter. It's his business, and my suggestions for certain changes have been met with, "This is MY business, not yours." Once in one of his angry episodes he took to our business Facebook, and made a fool of himself with an angry, rambling post that should never have seen the light of day. It was so unbelieveably unprofessional that it embarassed me to be associated with the biz. I called him and suggested that he take it down. This was met with a, "F*ck you." That day was the closest I've come to walking away from all this.

He still tries to handle some of the customer service, but his short, unhelpful, and often rude sounding responses absolutely lose us sales. But NOTHING is ever his fault. It's always, "That guy's an idiot" or "Sales are dead this month, but it's because nobody's buying anything (in our niche) right now." Not to mention, even in our best months I see that the accounts are just staying up enough to get everyone paid. It's scary. Feels like we're always 2 months of slow sales away from crashing. I sometimes take less pay than I should because my normal salary could put a strain on the operation. I'm weeks behind pay, and likely will not catch up for a long time at this rate.

I know the obvious answer to an outsider is for me is to not walk but RUN away from this situation. However, I handle all the web operations and much else. Without me to man most of the customer service, shipping operations, and website, this business would most likely fail with my father manning the ship. The way he'd run the biz alone would lead to a flood of angry customers and poor reviews. Just hire someone for my spot, right? Maybe, but my father is a difficult man to work for, and I think it would be tough to fill my spot for the long-term, especially with the risky way he handles his books and taxes.

At the end of the day this volatile man is still my father, and it would be hard for me to see him go completely broke at his age. However, I'm growing more and more unhappy, and it wouldn't take much to match my already puny annual income that I'm paid there (luckily I had two good years of affililate marketing that gave me nice capital for investing and saving). My relationship with my father is ruined, and most days (I feel bad saying this) I hate being around him. Any advice on how I should approach this situation? I want out, but this is a tricky spot for me to be in.

Thanks!

 

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[Rwill]

Leave, it will only get worse as it fails.

Speak to him calmly about what you've posted, tell him you can't carry on, and give him a date.
The answer sounds simple, but it won't be easy.
I'm sorry but that's the best I can offer

 

[minivanman]

I think you need to read the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. It seems as though you have as much of a problem as he does because you think you are his protector. Neither of you are 8 years old..... Read the book and then do as it says.

 

[Roli]

I feel your pain, however I think you need to slightly adjust your point of view and you may find that it is a lot easier to resolve than you realise.

Let's first break the situation down into manageable parts:

1. Your father brought you into the business, rescuing you from a low paid job.

If we look at this situation from his point of view, this was probably an immensely proud moment for your father. As a parent myself, the thought of showing my little one how to get on in life and run a successful business would just make me pleased as punch, and to have her play an integral role in the company, well that's just the cream on the cake.

So we can take it as read, that the day your father brought you in was a great day for him, he was showing you the way, and you were putting in meaningful contributions to the ongoing success.

Now however, his pride has been hurt, things aren't going well, and if you know that at least some of your misfortunes are down to him, trust me, he will know too. You though are his son, maybe he is a traditional man, and believes that it should always be the father guiding the son, therefore when you try and guide him, it makes him angry that he is not fulfilling his role. It must be similar to having to borrow money from your child, just hearing a tiny bit about your father, I bet that would mortify him.

In a way, he is borrowing money from you. When you offer to take less salary so that the business can survive, and I don't doubt that he's dying a thousand deaths inside.

"He must think I'm a bum."
"I'm his father, he should be borrowing money from me."
"He probably sees me as a failure."
"Why don't I have as much savings as he does?"

When you look at it like this, it is plainly obvious that your dear old dad is suffering, he talks to you about business because in a way, that's how he can kind of avoid the fact that he's your father, and can just be your boss . . .

Now, the question is what to do about it?

Choice 1 - Leave

Choice 2 - Stay

If you leave, then you want to make sure the business survives without you, and that your dad becomes a better manager.

If you stay, then you have to know that your relationship with him improves, and that you can implement some of the ideas you have for making things work.

My advice is centred more around how you can do either of these things, because ultimately, I don't know the two of you, neither do I know enough about your situation to give you a definitive answer, so here goes.

Step 1 - Big him up! - Your dad is very down right now, so you have to lift him up and show him that he's a good guy. The best way to do that is to remind him that your success is a reflection on what a great parent (and your mother obvs!) he is.

I would do this by reminiscing about the old days, talk about valuable lessons you learned from him. Tell him the success you've had with affiliate marketing and investing, was down to how he brought you up. I personally would spend around a week or two doing this, culminating in a dinner, either out or at home, whereby you have a good old chat about your history together.

The overall theme of this phase is; "I couldn't have done it without you dad!"

Step 2 - Redefine your boundaries - Once you have reestablished your father/son bond, you need to remind each other what your roles are in the company and how much autonomy you have.

This is so that you can remind him that your expertise is in web design/customer service, his is in sales and upper management or whatever.

The overall theme of this phase is "I couldn't do what you do" Subtext[and you can't do what I do!]

Step 3 - Defining the decision - Now that you've essentially said; "I can do what I do so well, because of you, whilst when you concentrate on what you do well, things are great."

You can now address the fact that you can no longer go on working like you have been. You can lay out a plan for saving the business, and you can present it as a two pronged approach, one with you, and the other without you.

Make sure that he knows this plan is coming out of the love and respect you have for him as a father, yet it is also a sound business idea which has credibility because of the knowledge he has bestowed upon you.

Ultimately it could take weeks, or maybe you'll have it all wrapped up in an afternoon, just remember that he loves you, and his pride is hurting. You just have to show him that you love him too, and that he absolutely should not be feeling how he does.

I like the sound of the book recommendation above by @minivanman, even though I haven't read it myself. In addition to that, I would also add The Chimp Paradox by Prof. Stephen Peters, and perhaps even Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss, because it is centred around tricky negotiations.

Good luck, and please keep us posted with how you get on. I'm sure your situation whilst unique, is not uncommon, and how it turns out could help others whom find themselves in similar circumstances.

 

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[OliviaBurnes]

A friend of mine got stuck in one of the lamest family businesses (to his Point of view) - they all are dentists. He graduated from medical college and started working as a dentist in their clinic. But now he got sick and tired of all of this and started to look himself in other spheres. 5 years after....still looking

 

[VincentV]

I can relate to your problem.

Many years ago I started working with my father and this was quite difficult. Like you I started with internet marketing and gradually gained his trust to do more.

We did hit some real lows in our relationship, I'll spare you the details. Eventually it took an external advisor, specialised in family businesses to help us. This made us realize, as a family, that it was time for me to move up.

Fast forward to now: I now employ my father as a "strategic advisor" and respect and thank him everyday for the chance he has given me.

Good luck with your situation and feel free to contact me

 

[Viper4all]

Let me begin by saying that I've been thinking about posting this for a couple weeks now, and finally decided that it's time. I'll try to keep this as short and sweet as possible. I know time is valuable, so greatly appreciate you taking the time to read this post.

About 6-7 years ago I left my low-level job at a local hospital, and decided to go into business with my father. I'll avoid getting into specifics, but my father had a line of products that he built and sold primarily on Craiglist. I knew there were opportunities for growth in the niche with a website and social media, so I went to work building a simple website and helping grow the brand's exposure. Flash forward to 2019 and the business has grown significantly. Our little team of 3, with a small advertising budget and not perfect branding has managed to build a business that brings in about 200K in revenue. We saw about about a 30% jump in sales in 2018, but this year have seen about a 5-10% decline in the numbers.

Now we get to the major issue at hand: the relationship between my father and I has become worse every year. I no longer feel like the man is my father. We ONLY discuss the business. Even around the holidays he only chats with me about the biz. He's at an age where most men are retiring from their 9-5 jobs, but his life of poor financial decisions has left him operating with less than 10k in savings.

Another thing that is scary about my father is his violent, fast-changing temper, mixed with impulsive behavior. I feel for him. I see a man beaten down by his bad choices, and it's making him more and more bitter. It's his business, and my suggestions for certain changes have been met with, "This is MY business, not yours." Once in one of his angry episodes he took to our business Facebook, and made a fool of himself with an angry, rambling post that should never have seen the light of day. It was so unbelieveably unprofessional that it embarassed me to be associated with the biz. I called him and suggested that he take it down. This was met with a, "F*ck you." That day was the closest I've come to walking away from all this.

He still tries to handle some of the customer service, but his short, unhelpful, and often rude sounding responses absolutely lose us sales. But NOTHING is ever his fault. It's always, "That guy's an idiot" or "Sales are dead this month, but it's because nobody's buying anything (in our niche) right now." Not to mention, even in our best months I see that the accounts are just staying up enough to get everyone paid. It's scary. Feels like we're always 2 months of slow sales away from crashing. I sometimes take less pay than I should because my normal salary could put a strain on the operation. I'm weeks behind pay, and likely will not catch up for a long time at this rate.

I know the obvious answer to an outsider is for me is to not walk but RUN away from this situation. However, I handle all the web operations and much else. Without me to man most of the customer service, shipping operations, and website, this business would most likely fail with my father manning the ship. The way he'd run the biz alone would lead to a flood of angry customers and poor reviews. Just hire someone for my spot, right? Maybe, but my father is a difficult man to work for, and I think it would be tough to fill my spot for the long-term, especially with the risky way he handles his books and taxes.

At the end of the day this volatile man is still my father, and it would be hard for me to see him go completely broke at his age. However, I'm growing more and more unhappy, and it wouldn't take much to match my already puny annual income that I'm paid there (luckily I had two good years of affililate marketing that gave me nice capital for investing and saving). My relationship with my father is ruined, and most days (I feel bad saying this) I hate being around him. Any advice on how I should approach this situation? I want out, but this is a tricky spot for me to be in.

Thanks!

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear that you're in this situation. It's always tough, especially when the problem also revolves around family. I agree with some of the other posters that beat me here and think there are some problems with boundaries. The book that was recommended before definitely looks like it could help your situation [REMOVED BY MOD] I haven't read it yet but I'm going to add it to my books to listen to on Audible.

At the end of the day, life is both too short and too long to stay in a situation like this. I'd give the book a try; otherwise it seems like you might be better off getting a job. The only problem is where does that leave your father. Wishing you all the best, and hope to hear a success story on here soon!

 

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[100ToOne]

Including all the benefits there are with running a family business that I've personally encountered, the disadvantages are usually more. But it varies from one case to another.

Especially when it gets personal. Or when business issues turns personal for a stupid reason.

If you're finding it toxic, maybe you should find a job and respectfully tell your father that you found a better opportunity (even if it's not) and use it to get out without hurting his feelings.

 

[Tourmaline]

I can relate to your problem.

Many years ago I started working with my father and this was quite difficult. Like you I started with internet marketing and gradually gained his trust to do more.

We did hit some real lows in our relationship, I'll spare you the details. Eventually it took an external advisor, specialised in family businesses to help us. This made us realize, as a family, that it was time for me to move up.

Fast forward to now: I now employ my father as a "strategic advisor" and respect and thank him everyday for the chance he has given me.

Good luck with your situation and feel free to contact me

Yup, sounds like exactly what OP needs to do. Run the ship.

Have a heart to heart with his father where OP does not attack him but sympathizes with him will go a long way. Getting his father to see that it's okay to take a step back, that it's okay to relax and let him takeover is best not only for the business but for the father's health and well being.

OP could speak to his father about his father's anger, that will likely be the way into getting him to see that he should let go of the reigns and let his son take over.

I totally understand not wanting to abandon one's father in this way, even if that is the easier way out.

 

[Soul Slider]

Let me begin by saying that I've been thinking about posting this for a couple weeks now, and finally decided that it's time. I'll try to keep this as short and sweet as possible. I know time is valuable, so greatly appreciate you taking the time to read this post.

About 6-7 years ago I left my low-level job at a local hospital, and decided to go into business with my father. I'll avoid getting into specifics, but my father had a line of products that he built and sold primarily on Craiglist. I knew there were opportunities for growth in the niche with a website and social media, so I went to work building a simple website and helping grow the brand's exposure. Flash forward to 2019 and the business has grown significantly. Our little team of 3, with a small advertising budget and not perfect branding has managed to build a business that brings in about 200K in revenue. We saw about about a 30% jump in sales in 2018, but this year have seen about a 5-10% decline in the numbers.

Now we get to the major issue at hand: the relationship between my father and I has become worse every year. I no longer feel like the man is my father. We ONLY discuss the business. Even around the holidays he only chats with me about the biz. He's at an age where most men are retiring from their 9-5 jobs, but his life of poor financial decisions has left him operating with less than 10k in savings.

Another thing that is scary about my father is his violent, fast-changing temper, mixed with impulsive behavior. I feel for him. I see a man beaten down by his bad choices, and it's making him more and more bitter. It's his business, and my suggestions for certain changes have been met with, "This is MY business, not yours." Once in one of his angry episodes he took to our business Facebook, and made a fool of himself with an angry, rambling post that should never have seen the light of day. It was so unbelieveably unprofessional that it embarassed me to be associated with the biz. I called him and suggested that he take it down. This was met with a, "F*ck you." That day was the closest I've come to walking away from all this.

He still tries to handle some of the customer service, but his short, unhelpful, and often rude sounding responses absolutely lose us sales. But NOTHING is ever his fault. It's always, "That guy's an idiot" or "Sales are dead this month, but it's because nobody's buying anything (in our niche) right now." Not to mention, even in our best months I see that the accounts are just staying up enough to get everyone paid. It's scary. Feels like we're always 2 months of slow sales away from crashing. I sometimes take less pay than I should because my normal salary could put a strain on the operation. I'm weeks behind pay, and likely will not catch up for a long time at this rate.

I know the obvious answer to an outsider is for me is to not walk but RUN away from this situation. However, I handle all the web operations and much else. Without me to man most of the customer service, shipping operations, and website, this business would most likely fail with my father manning the ship. The way he'd run the biz alone would lead to a flood of angry customers and poor reviews. Just hire someone for my spot, right? Maybe, but my father is a difficult man to work for, and I think it would be tough to fill my spot for the long-term, especially with the risky way he handles his books and taxes.

At the end of the day this volatile man is still my father, and it would be hard for me to see him go completely broke at his age. However, I'm growing more and more unhappy, and it wouldn't take much to match my already puny annual income that I'm paid there (luckily I had two good years of affililate marketing that gave me nice capital for investing and saving). My relationship with my father is ruined, and most days (I feel bad saying this) I hate being around him. Any advice on how I should approach this situation? I want out, but this is a tricky spot for me to be in.

Thanks!

Hi Webedgemedia,

This is my first post on this forum. I was going to register to the forum in the near future as I am about to finish Unscripted . I have thought a lot about if I should answer to this post or not. And how I can answer this post by adding value to you, and not making it a sob story for my situation. Your post struck an all too familiar chord that is part of my life, "Stuck in a family business"

I am currently still in, but almost out, of a whirlwind shit show caused by my family business. I was manipulated by the closest members of my family and sacrificed for their own self gain. Im not going to go on about my story here, but the one thing I will say is that I was around 24 when this really impacted my life and I've been fighting till today and I am 38 years old and still not out.

I've read all the comments above and I think there is value in each and very one of them. Many of the ideas I used myself to try and get people on my side and to understand me. But what I have learnt;

1. No matter what you can never change somebody. I lost a lot of hair over this one. When negotiating with someone (ie your father) you have to make your points appeal to them you have to soothe them, play to the father son relationship as people above have suggested. However if your point of view, or your case requires them to change how they are thinking or requires them to have mental and emotional characteristics to understand your point. Then most of the time it won't work. Unless they are rational people who can step back, and possess the mental ability to do so. (In my experience most of the older generation, sorry more accurately all of the older generation that I had to deal with didn't have these facilities, or didn't make them visible for their own self gain).
A different approach was required to deal with these people.
However the point I want to make here is that you have to assess whether the people involved are able to understand you or is it like pulling water from a stone, at which point you have to accept this and move forward knowing this, otherwise I think you are playing a self defeating game.
For example if the person you are dealing with is not logical/rational, then all the logical and rational thought patterns that you have invested in to present to them will go over their head. Maybe an emotional component is needed to appeal to them.
But a decision has to be made as to whether progress with this person is possible otherwise you have to direct your efforts to other areas.

2. TIME! Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of entrepreneurship! Unscripted ! This is all about time isn't it.
God I can't tell you the amount of effort and time I have wasted into securing/retaining assets (meaning lawsuits) instead of spending it figuring out how to create them. My youth as been spent in this mess (24 to 38) I lost one of the greatest gifts in life. I lost time and I also lost in a sense "the process path", I feel that in those years 24 to 38 and should have been succeeding and failing due to my own actions and thus building my own life.
Treat this situation with the utmost urgency in regards to time. Don't let this sit and simmer while the years go past, go at it head on.
Escalate the situation let it blow up so that it demands a solution NOW that is viable to both of you.

I am sorry if I rambled on. All the above our my opinions and things that I can see now in hindsight.
I really hope that this was of some value to you.
If it wasn't and you think my stance is BS or doesn't apply to you, then don't hesitate to let me know.

If you want to contact me privately so that we can actually talk on the telephone please do so.
What helped me get thru some of the battles I was facing was to have a person I could bounce ideas off.

Wishing you all the best.

 

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