Greed is Good

[Selfy]

LMAO Greed leads to shady practices. If you like Gecko so much, check out Bernie Madoff, and see where greed gets you in the real world.

 

[Digamma]

Poor man wanna be rich,
Rich man wanna be king,
And a king ain't satisfied,
'til he rules everything,

 

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[Vigilante]

I bought a penny stock once a dozen years ago, shortly after you bought your eBook. I thought my penny stock would turn into a billion dollars. Know what it turned into? Zero.

In the dozen years since, I have made and lost and made again tens of thousands of times what I spent on the penny stock. I have spent exactly zero time since then thinking about the penny stock, until today. I couldn't even tell you what the penny stock was.

I made the decision myself to buy it. In fact, I have made all of the decisions myself that brought me to today. I have had some great wins, and some epic losses. The consistency through all of the storms of my life is it was my own free will that put me in that position. I lost a company in a hostile takeover, at the hands of unscrupulous bandits that stole my business. However, as bad as the people were on the other side of the equation, at the end of the day I made all of the choices that put me in that position.

You look at a $99 eBook as the catalyst to what your life has become. Your life is merely the sum choices of the decisions that YOU made, then... and now. You bought a $99 eBook and thought it would make you a millionaire. It didn't. You made choices thereafter that certainly cost you and took a toll on your life.

It doesn't even matter what the content of the eBook was. Since then, you have had somewhere in the vicinity of 5,475 days to change the course of your life. Yet here you find yourself, fifteen years later, hanging on to decisions you made then and using them as a means to expose the wrong done to you... 5,475 days ago.

Don't waste another single post on this. Don't waste another single moment. Don't waste another single breath, or thought, or second. Take your energy and pour it into something that can change your life, and heal your soul, and set a new course for your future. Release the imaginary demons that are the result of the choices you made over the last 5,475 days.

Watch the sun that will come up tomorrow, and measure the rest of the days you have left. Invest again, in yourself and your family and your legacy. Don't let your legacy be consumed by following around old demons from 5,475 days ago, and people who you think harmed you then. Heal. Release. And find freedom in letting perceptions of everything external of your own self determination.

You're not going to find success or healing in exposing the content you read in an eBook 15 years ago. Nobody really cares. You're the only one that can fix you.

Your time here in this forum is very short, as is the time we all have left here to make a positive difference. Take all those scars you have and use them for your benefit. Take everything you learned through the shitty times in life and use them to do things differently this time to get a different outcome.

You can either spend your time looking back, or looking forward. Don't let this 5,475 day baggage keep you from what you might become.

 

[V8Bill]

You're not describing greed (which is very, very bad and never good), you're describing growth which is natural. A tree wants to grow as tall as it can and we (sometimes) want to see how awesome we can be.

Greed is not defined by how much money you have or want. You're greedy when you think it's ok (or are willing) to knowingly hurt people for money.

 

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[Kak]

Competition is good. People viciously competing to satisfy clients/customers better than their competitors is good; but that's not greed. Greed in itself tends to lead to crime, murder, everyone hating us, no one trusting us, imprisonment, etc. *SPOILERS* Sort of like how Gordon Gekko ends up at the end.

Bingo!

Building an amazingly large enterprise and providing millions of value to customers, employees and shareholders is virtuous. You literally are making sacrifices for the betterment of the world.

People that make the world a better place with their blood, sweat and tears over decades deserve to be filthy rich.

Greed is definitely the wrong motivator. I thought it went without saying that we shouldn't applaud the Gordon Gecko's of the world...

In stark contrast to the greed is good notion... Greed begets bad business decisions with short term horizons and damaging consequences. Do yourself a favor and run your business and your life in a way where you don't have to look over your shoulder wondering when the music is going to stop.

This is the stuff that gives businessmen a bad name.

 

[broswoodwork]

 

[Ubermensch]

"The new law of evolution in corporate Amercia seems to be the survival of the unfittest. Well, in my book, you either do it right. Or you get eliminated."

It's just how I feel.

@Cyriex
@axiom

Favorite Gordon Gekko line of all time is at the end of the second clip.

 

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[Captain Jack]

You're not describing greed (which is very, very bad and never good), you're describing growth which is natural. A tree wants to grow as tall as it can and we (sometimes) want to see how awesome we can be.

Greed is not defined by how much money you have or want. You're greedy when you think it's ok (or are willing) to knowingly hurt people for money.

If this statement is true, then how do you explain this:

http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13721

@Cyriex
@MJ DeMarco
@IceCreamKid

Hi Guys,
My Husband and I being former 'victims' of planet wealth & Andrew Dimitri & Bill Stacey's "spruiking" "Retire tommorrow using our one size fits all strategy" , & we'll even help you mortgage your house/s to help facilitate this ,etc.. type of hype...Well, I just have throw my 'hat' in the ring.

I have been looking for a place to be heard unbiastly, & possibly reach-out to fellow victims or prospective 'newbies' at risk of losing their shirts also.

Fianally, I came across a google search revealing Bill Stacy's attempt at spreading his "false utopia" on your forum.
Although I'm approx. a year late in adding my two bob's worth [better late than never], I have to note I was a little bemused & found It refreshing to see your forum members slice right through his B.S. spin, probably saving some unsuspecting souls [newbs] from financial ruin.

My story?
Well I was one of many 'suckers' effectively stolen away from 21st century academy, to be conjoled into Andrew & Bill's first experiment at trying their hand at running their own wealth education site in 2004, [PLANET WEALTH]

where they spruiked the "Dimitri stategy" Which was really just the 'bull put credit spread'....Thats right, he put his own name on it, something he later flatly denied, when a few of us were seeking legal action.

He also denied writing an e-book describing what a viable 'retire now' strategy it was!
where they stated that the so called proffessionals were just PLAIN WRONG when they argued the big risks involved. [page 15]

When I offered to sit-down with respective reprsentatives & openly display & disscuss this material to refresh their memmories, the resounding answer was quote: "that's not going to happen!".....HMMMMM.?

Coming from people, fellow AUSSIES that said they didn't need to hide behind disclaimers & legal teams etc..Like some other shysters do!...Again HMMM.

It's like de-javu, when looking back in the early days of planet wealth, when the forum was FREE & almost anybody could give their unbiased opinion....

I look back & remember people not unlike yourselves, trying invane to warn the un-initiated, about the pitfalls of such a strategy!
People who were quickly chased-off, before the site became "paid-up" members only!

An environment which soon became one of vurtual idol-worship! [god sindrome] "I'm right, because I am" attitude!

we were "Harvested" suckers, who seemed to lose their right to objective debate, & soon the ability to privately communicate via e-mail or personal messages on the forum. [disabled]

A seemingly cultish environment, whereby any fair-minded objective discussion about risk was met with a hostile interjection by Andrew, which was almost always followed up with a commical & subject changing, long-winded, post by Bill! [the clown!] 'adjective'

How do I know this?..
Becuase I was one of the few who dared defy their spin routine, & start threads, one of which was centered on our true risks & planet wealths' "money pie" money managment philosophy!...Risking half of your bank on various put spreads at any one time!...

How much you risk all-up is up to you they said???...But at the same time encouraging & assisting people to mortgage their homes, where 50 to 100k was the usual, & appeared to set the pace! [something bill has openly addmitted after he left].

Well, the above mentioned thread, which quickly skated out of their control, went approx. 60 posts & was viewed around 3500 times in 6 weeks!!!
Not bad, considering the next 'most viewed' thread had 900 views over 1 year!

It wasn't long before people owned-up & faced-up to the public humiliation of their true losses [me included, two houses & approx. & 150,000 in cash!]
One by one, they would 'take a bow' & sign-off for good!

A month later, planet wealth shut down [december 2007] then re-invented itself,[early 2008] susposedly taking on-board the 'constructive' critisism, before spruiking more conservative strategies, also outlining the risk profiles of the more speculative strategies.
Something my solictor & myself politeley suggested!
Something Andrew & Bill would admonish me for saying, but went ahead & did it anyway!!!

I don't know a great deal about the "new" planet wealth, but one last heated debate between myself & Andrew Dimitri [64 minutes according to him] revealed all but one person had not been with him for more than a year, at that time [early 2008].

A seemingly typical M.O. for these so-called wealth educators, who appear to have no end of newbies being drawn into their spin advertising , never to be heard from again!

This one on one debate finally came about after Andrew & I think, Bill had me barred from the site..
All because I went about informing a complete newb' about the potential perils of their "volitility advantage" strategy, by showing him a recent post by a poor soul who had just blown 80k in one month!..
Using I believe, Andrew's American affiliate/trader who is also involved with OPTIONETICS.
Boy, Did Andrew get stuck into me for that!

So much for objectivety! & open unbiast disscussion?

My main point, [apart from getting some issues of my chest] is to EMPHASIZE the importance, of an open forum, where, any BULL@#$T will be exposed for what it is!
And hopefully save the inexperienced from repeating my/our mistakes!

Kind regards,
Vicki

p.s. why haven't I spoken-out ealier?...my solicitor advised against going to the media [today tonight etc.]
For risk of being mis-quoted & pos. facing a liable defamation suit...JEEZ.


p.p.s.If there are any former planet wealth subscribers out there [2004-2007] please feel free to contact me & disscuss our experiences.

Seriously, Bill, this stuff is easily discoverable upon a basic google search. Did you really think that nobody here would google you?

 

[V8Bill]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/greed

Full Definition of greed

1. : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

The problem with Webster's definition is; who determines what's "excessive" and what's "needed"? Who's going to decide for me what's needed or what's excessive? Their definition smells a little left to me.

 

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[axiom]

Ubermensch and Axiom Discuss Greed


Cliffnotes:

Axiom: Let’s talk about greed.

Ubermensch: You said talk about greed?

Axiom: Talk about greed.

Ubermensch: Greed?

Axiom: Yeah, greed.

Ubermensch: That sounds like a bad word.

Axiom: It does, you know, it sounds dirty.

Ubermensch: It’s a dirty word.

Axiom: Bernie Madoff dirty.

Ubermensch: Bleh. I think that’s a misconception. I think people hear that word and they think about some super shady dark room. Wall Street. Just screwing people over. Con Artist. It’s a very subjective term and the smartest people obviously get that. People have a lot of ideas that they’ve swallowed -- that they’ve thoughtlessly swallowed. These intellectual poinons.

Ubermensch: How can you not be greedy? Greed is EVOLUTION. You know what happens to the lion that’s not greedy? He starves to death.

Axiom: We wouldn’t have gotten to where we are today without greed. Nobody would have had the motivation to keep going because they wanted something more.

Ubermensch: Exactly. Look, I woke up today, got a quick workout in, because I’m greeedy for my own sex appeal. I’m greedy for my own six pack. And I’m greedy for money. That’s why I make my phone calls. It’s not exactly fun all the time. It’s fun when you realize that the actions you’re taking have a direct correlation to the income that you have. It’s a numbers game.

Axiom: Even then the fun is in the feeling of control, not in the feeling of making these monotonous phone calls.

Ubermensch: Right, it’s the enjoyment of the process. Watching myself get better. As Andy Black says, “Money is evidence that you’ve helped your fellow man.” And when I’m pitching something over the phone I hear excitement and I hear interest. Man that’s beautiful. And yes, money is going to come from that.

Ubermensch: It’s funny, you hear people argue over these words and they don’t ever take the time to even define the word. Arguing the word without defining it is like trying to play a game with no pre-established rules. It’s childish. And I think that rejecting the notion of greed is ultimately childish. I don’t think that you can call yourself a real hustler if you’re not greedy.

Axiom: If you didn’t have that insatiable need for more, you wouldn’t do the things to get there.

Ubermensch: Think about all the great writers, great poets, great inventors, great thinkers, great discoverers. They were all greedy. They had this excessive desire to provide a solution, to cure a disease, to help humanity. You’re not going to get rich without affecting humanity in a major way. For every Bernie Madoff, there are 10,000 entrepreneurs who have made the world a better place. It’s a pretty simple fact man, greed is good. If I wasn’t greedy, I’d probably sit on the forum all day and post videos.

@Ubermensch
@Cyriex

 

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[Bryan James]

Competition is good. People viciously competing to satisfy clients/customers better than their competitors is good; but that's not greed. Greed in itself tends to lead to crime, murder, everyone hating us, no one trusting us, imprisonment, etc. *SPOILERS* Sort of like how Gordon Gekko ends up at the end.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I bought a penny stock once a dozen years ago, shortly after you bought your eBook. I thought my penny stock would turn into a billion dollars. Know what it turned into? Zero.

In the dozen years since, I have made and lost and made again tens of thousands of times what I spent on the penny stock. I have spent exactly zero time since then thinking about the penny stock, until today. I couldn't even tell you what the penny stock was.

I made the decision myself to buy it. In fact, I have made all of the decisions myself that brought me to today. I have had some great wins, and some epic losses. The consistency through all of the storms of my life is it was my own free will that put me in that position. I lost a company in a hostile takeover, at the hands of unscrupulous bandits that stole my business. However, as bad as the people were on the other side of the equation, at the end of the day I made all of the choices that put me in that position.

You look at a $99 eBook as the catalyst to what your life has become. Your life is merely the sum choices of the decisions that YOU made, then... and now. You bought a $99 eBook and thought it would make you a millionaire. It didn't. You made choices thereafter that certainly cost you and took a toll on your life.

It doesn't even matter what the content of the eBook was. Since then, you have had somewhere in the vicinity of 5,475 days to change the course of your life. Yet here you find yourself, fifteen years later, hanging on to decisions you made then and using them as a means to expose the wrong done to you... 5,475 days ago.

Don't waste another single post on this. Don't waste another single moment. Don't waste another single breath, or thought, or second. Take your energy and pour it into something that can change your life, and heal your soul, and set a new course for your future. Release the imaginary demons that are the result of the choices you made over the last 5,475 days.

Watch the sun that will come up tomorrow, and measure the rest of the days you have left. Invest again, in yourself and your family and your legacy. Don't let your legacy be consumed by following around old demons from 5,475 days ago, and people who you think harmed you then. Heal. Release. And find freedom in letting perceptions of everything external of your own self determination.

You're not going to find success or healing in exposing the content you read in an eBook 15 years ago. Nobody really cares. You're the only one that can fix you.

Your time here in this forum is very short, as is the time we all have left here to make a positive difference. Take all those scars you have and use them for your benefit. Take everything you learned through the shitty times in life and use them to do things differently this time to get a different outcome.

You can either spend your time looking back, or looking forward. Don't let this 5,475 day baggage keep you from what you might become.

Hopefully he/she sees this advice worthy of AT LEAST $99 because it is.... but I doubt they will see it that way.

Someone still lamenting 15 years later about some eBook sounds like someone who has given up except for blaming others. The fixed mindset is strong with this one...

 

[axiom]

LMAO Greed leads to shady practices. If you like Gecko so much, check out Bernie Madoff, and see where greed gets you in the real world.

Greed is not the same thing as evil.

Why are you on this forum? Because you want to be an entrepreneur and make money so you can live the life you want. That, friend, is a degree of greed.

Greed is simply the yearning for more. Progress is never made without wanting something more.

Some allow greed to outweigh the true value of hard work, so they take short cuts. However, 'shady practices' are by no means the logical result of greed.

Greed is the force that propels you towards excellence in everything. This is predicated by maintaining control over it, not the other way around.

 

[OldFaithful]

@Selfy, @V8Bill and @Delmania have touched on excellent points here. We should be very clear in the definition of terms, particularly when it touches such a thorny social/political issue with such polarizing connotation. Growth/Yearning. Good & Evil. Greed vs Altruism.

I like the middle ground between Greed & Altruism...Rational Self Interest. It does not allow me to harm/defraud another person, nor does it require that I sacrifice my own good/value for someone else's benefit.

I've read a terrific book that deals with this subject as it relates to business. "How to Be Profitable and Moral: A Rational Egoist Approach to Business" by Jaana Woiceshyn. I highly recommend it.

 

[Kak]

So haha is it mate?.
ookay..

You two should probably screw off and deal with this privately.

This is where defamation and libel lawsuits start.

 

[Kak]

I agree.

You might not agree with me when I tell you that I believe you have no right to blame others for your own actions.

 

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[ChrisV]

I don't believe you know all the details.

You're following this guy around for 15 years because of some bad investments you made? Honey, you need therapy. I'm not kidding. That's really not normal.

You seriously read all 642 of his posts to find the one about you? That's wild and a terrible use of your time.

Sunk Cost Fallacy

 

[axiom]

Greed is extremely underrated.

Greed is the source of all motivation and all success.

You take something because you WANT it. You want more than what you already have. This is greed.

As in everything, greed can be taken too far. Yet in its basest form, GREED IS GOOD.

 

[Selfy]

Greed is not the same thing as evil.

Greed is also not the same as goodness.

Why are you on this forum? Because you want to be an entrepreneur and make money so you can live the life you want. That, friend, is a degree of greed.

I'm here not just of greed. I'm here of a degree of everything. Desire, anger, jealousy, happiness, inspiration... greed isn't that special.

Greed is simply the yearning for more. Progress is never made without wanting something more.

Yearning is simply the yearning for more. Progress is never made without yearning something more.

Some allow greed to outweigh the true value of hard work, so they take short cuts. However, 'shady practices' are by no means the logical result of greed.

Greed does not power hard work. Greed is irrelevant in a hardworker. Hard work is done through principles like kindness, excellence, respect and helping and love for others. Greed is not special.

Greed is the force that propels you towards excellence in everything. This is predicated by maintaining control over it, not the other way around.

 

[Delmania]

LMAO Greed leads to shady practices. If you like Gecko so much, check out Bernie Madoff, and see where greed gets you in the real world.

Avarice vs. greed. If you let your greed eclipse your concern for your fellow man, then it becomes bad.

 

[Deleted35442]

Greed is reality, and yes, greed is good. It's essentially an extension of self-preservation. As humans, we're naturally predisposed toward acting in our own interests. This goes all the way back in history and is still much the case in lesser developed societies. Until there was civil society, the state of nature was a constant state of war. What keeps us in line has been centuries now of living in civil society where we've become conditioned to live in the confines of social constructs.

Thomas Hobbes wrote:

"For he that performeth first has no assurance the other will perform after, because the bonds of words are too weak to bridle men's ambition, avarice, anger, and other passions, without the fear of some coercive power; which in the condition of mere nature, where all men are equal, and judges of the justness of their own fears, cannot possibly be supposed. And therefore he which performeth first does but betray himself to his enemy, contrary to the right he can never abandon of defending his life and means of living".

What he talks about is nature. But why is greed "good" and when we say "good" I assume we mean as a societal benefit since we obviously recognize that it rewards who @Selfy calls "greedy people". But if we're talking about people, humans, our brethren - there was actually an entire study conducted by University of Oxford that I remember well that came out in 2014 from Time Magazine. It insists that inequality and social hierarchies can be a GOOD THING. Read the whole article here: http://time.com/41680/greed-is-good-science-proves/

Bernie Madoff is just an asinine case study of greed. He clearly broke the law and was able to get away with it for far too long. This mentality is just piss weak and will get you nowhere. You're here because of "desire, anger, jealousy" so basically you came here with a chip on your shoulder. You need a therapist, not this forum. Capitalism, Adam Smith 101: "people respond to incentives". And "hard work" is no exception. If you want acceptance for your work ethic you won't get it. People work for money, people come here because they're in the pursuit of a lot of money as @axiom said. End of.

Great video @Ubermensch. Love Wall Street. Hated Wall Street 2.

 

[ChrisV]

I

eh?..that joker lives just up the road.

Let it goo
Let it gooOooo
It was 15 years agoOOooo

View: https://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk?t=120


We're sorry you lost money, but this is not the best use of your time.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

...who determines what's "excessive" and what's "needed"? Who's going to decide for me what's needed or what's excessive?​

​

Exactly my point.

As the poet, TS Eliot wrote,
"Words strain,
Crack and sometimes break, under the burden,
Under the tension, slip, slide, perish,
Will not stay still."

 

[RogueInnovation]

It should have read "greed is good for me"
Gekko bought and sold businesses based on the greed and fear of other people
He then sold off the assets of the companies mercilessly
So of course he thinks greed is good, its how he suckers people
In that big speech he's just saying "hey look how free I am, don't you wanna be free like me?"
Playing on their own greed and self interest to sell them.

I myself would not believe a single word that dude says.
He's a POS that provides no value.
He does all his bs, for what? Nothin, dude is a hollow shell.


I'll tell you what is GOOD and satisfying as anything
BEING SO FEARLESS THAT GREED DIES IN YOUR PRESENCE AND UNDER YOUR GAZE
Feed people's strength, their inner greatness
And the strong will find you and follow you
The weak will tremble below you

Weak men wash away with the tide
Alway have, always will

 

[Kak]

I don't believe you know all the details.

Nor do I care to.

 

[ChrisV]

 

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[ChrisV]

As for the thread, I think there's a difference between want and greed.

Everyone wants success.

Greed, I define as an excess. Almost a compulsive addiction. An addiction to those feelings, no different from cocaine addiction. An addiction so strong you're willing to hurt others to get it, like many addictions. An attempt to fill a void, like all of the 7 deadly sins.

There's a difference between that and wanting to provide value to the world and asking a fair price in return.

That's not greed. That's just normal.

 

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[Vigilante]

Actually Bill, that disgruntled customer did exactly as you instructed..personally I could never encourage anyone to play around with bull put credit spreads using loaned money, especially mortaged against your home..
btw on the subject of greed, it's interesting to see you've turned such a handsome profit looking at your bio..
Perhaps I should ask for a refund with interest , worth more than $650K these days..
My life has never been the same since 2004..I honest to god wish I never Iet myself be sucked in by your & Andrew's scam..post the original e-book here for all to disseminate..something Andrew flatly refused to do when I spoke with him..
Will you have a chat with me sometime?..I have a bone to pick with you..
p.s. lol what is it with scam artist grifters seemingly all hailing from Adelaide these days.

You want a refund for a $99 eBook you bought 15 years ago?

 

[ChrisV]

It doesn't even matter what the content of the eBook was. Since then, you have had somewhere in the vicinity of 5,475 days to change the course of your life. Yet here you find yourself, fifteen years later, hanging on to decisions you made then and using them as a means to expose the wrong done to you... 5,475 days ago.

Don't waste another single post on this. Don't waste another single moment. Don't waste another single breath, or thought, or second. Take your energy and pour it into something that can change your life, and heal your soul, and set a new course for your future. Release the imaginary demons that are the result of the choices you made over the last 5,475 days.

There you go, some gold advice from Vig.

It's a simple matter of odds.

By chasing him around the internet you have a .000001% chance of even getting your $99 back. I can think of a thousand things that give you better odds of making you $99, or even $650,000.

He may or may not have given irresponsible advice in his book.

The point is, whatever you lost to that situation, you're just losing more now. More time, more energy. For what benefit? For a $99 that he's not going to give you? If it really bothers you talk to a therapist. That's not tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic advice. Losing a house is obviously a traumatic event. And if it's still bouncing around your head more than 6 months later, it's really territory for a therapist. But I mean there are no guarantees in the stock market, and you bet your home on it?

Whoever is to blame you're just wasting more time and resources with these shenanigans. Serious about the therapist advice.

 

[A_Random_Guy]

Ah someone got scammed from an ebook? For a second, I thought it is HackForums.

@ChrisV check this out this is legit funny. Btw Omni is the admin of HF.