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Going Fastlane Like My Life Depends On It.. (continued)

Mr. Tycoon

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Bottom line, you can’t overcome an addiction if you don’t figure out why it’s so appealing to you to start with.
Maybe that’s the answer.. don’t try to figure it out. Just do it.
 
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Andy Black

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“because I say I am” doesn’t seem like a valid justification/proof to me to cause me to believe it.
I find the "because I say I am" part amusing. It then makes me shake my head at being stuck, and JFDI.
 

Andy Black

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Originally what we were doing with this data is having realtors pay us to find leads, they'd pay us say $200 for a lead and we'd do that every single day. But it turned out that selling information without someone knowing is illegal.
A lot of what you wrote went over my head (which is OK).

I'm wondering about this part though. A realtor pays you $200 for a lead, but you can't sell the lead without the lead knowing about it. Can you contact leads in your database and only pass on one that's given permission?
 

Andy Black

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Maybe that’s the answer.. don’t try to figure it out. Just do it.
Reminds me of a business/life coach who once told me "F*ck why. It only holds you back."
 
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mikecarlooch

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A lot of what you wrote went over my head (which is OK).

I'm wondering about this part though. A realtor pays you $200 for a lead, but you can't sell the lead without the lead knowing about it. Can you contact leads in your database and only pass on one that's given permission?
I wish this worked,

But it is REALLY hard to get a seller to agree to speak with a realtor, let alone allow us to sell their data.

The business wouldn’t generate enough leads as we were personally vetting each lead on the phone to give our realtors the most quality leads possible
 

Andy Black

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I wish this worked,

But it is REALLY hard to get a seller to agree to speak with a realtor, let alone allow us to sell their data.

The business wouldn’t generate enough leads as we were personally vetting each lead on the phone to give our realtors the most quality leads possible
(I don't do cold or outbound anything so bear that in mind. Also, maybe this isn't a problem you want to solve, or solve now ,so feel free to ignore and solve the problem you're currently focused on.)

You've a list of email addresses of people who previously listed their property for sale, didn't sell, and took the listing down?

Are you allowed to email people to get them to express an interest in selling again?

Can you load those emails into platforms (Facebook, Google, etc) and run ads to them? Or similar/look-a-like audiences? (Again, I don't do this so don't know what's allowed and not allowed.)

Did they have to be personally vetted? Did realtors complain about the quality of the leads? Could an online form have done a similar job?
 

Black_Dragon43

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I find the "because I say I am" part amusing. It then makes me shake my head at being stuck, and JFDI.
That’s interesting, I’m the serious type, jokes don’t work to change my mood :rofl:

But I see, for you it’s sort of a pattern interrupt that gets your unstuck.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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I wish this worked,

But it is REALLY hard to get a seller to agree to speak with a realtor, let alone allow us to sell their data.

The business wouldn’t generate enough leads as we were personally vetting each lead on the phone to give our realtors the most quality leads possible
I think your biggest issue is that you’re putting too much focus on giving a great result for realtors. That’s not your job.

Your job is to give them something better than the alternatives. What alternative do they have for generating leads? If that sucks, then your service can be sucky and you’ll still make money.

Again it’s the same problem I pointed out in a recent post in reply to @Antifragile in a newbie’s thread. Most beginners think it’s just about them and the client, nothing else matters. Therefore they want to create this world-changing solution that magically solves a problem that has been unsolved up until that point (guess what, that’s doesn’t exist usually).

And that’s WRONG. You’re not solving a problem in a vacuum. Those real estate people ultimately need to hire your company because of YOUR EXPERTISE (notice I didn’t say your service). The value lies in your expertise, and how you can use that to solve their problems.

Like when an agency hires me… the biggest value they get is having a certified genius in their corner telling them what to do with extensive experience in the agency world, and who has studied and continues to study all relevant material that can help them. The service we do for them is basically an extra addition to the value I bring to them — and it’s the value of my ideas that usually changes their business the most.
 

mikecarlooch

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Do you actually need to be number 1?

I decided to get a job under someone successful in commercial real estate (finally). Have not secured yet or started, but it is for my own good to get the job.

You know what I realized? When I'm trying to be number one, when I'm trying to do things by myself, it all spirals out of freaking control for me. I think too big, end up doing nothing, and get frustrated walking in circles.

When I have atleast one person above me that's smarter than me and more of a natural leader, somebody that has judgement and already is successful, I am able to take their empirical doings and do them very well and even find creative ways to do them better.

I don't know if it's a self esteem thing, but trying to do things without either learning under a successful person, or having a partner that is better than me, is like entrepreneurial suicide.

My brain is out of control trying to do things on my own.

For years, I've been trying to fight it. Ignoring the fact that every time I've had some bit of success I either was under a successful person or partnered with them, everything was super smooth and REAL progress was made.

Every time I try to do it myself, I'm just not naturally inclined for it.

Some people seem to be able to just go out and from 20 years old be 100% on their own and crush it.

But I realized something.

If you're a better number 2 guy, that's OK.

You don't NEED to be #1.


After all, what really matters in building wealth from a business.. is ownership, right?

Example:

I think it was shopify (i don't remember) but the founder admitted he is not a good CEO. He's maybe not the guy for that job, so he took on head of product.
 

Kevin88660

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Not exactly, just adding.

We have a very strong dataset of hard-to-get data with millions of properties on it (residential), people that have listed in the past but didn't sell their properties (different from expireds)

We're able to use it to get referral fees from realtors, JV deals with wholesalers outside of florida, and wholesale deals inside of florida.

The problem is that in order to make it work I need to come out of pocket up-front in order to skiptrace the leads in order to reach out to them with the proprietary technology that we created, which would cost a lot.

Originally what we were doing with this data is having realtors pay us to find leads, they'd pay us say $200 for a lead and we'd do that every single day. But it turned out that selling information without someone knowing is illegal.

However, there's nothing that says we can't give them away for free.

The good thing about this is that since it doesn't take much effort to facilitate these types of transactions and give them to others, all realtors and JV partners need to do is sign agreements, then we send over the leads we found for them in our database using the tech.

It allows me time to put together a syndicated commercial deal especially with the unfair advantage of having a partner in the business, so taking on that challenge and syndicating a commercial deal, that is my goal currently.



We use tons of data sources and the data we get is not obvious. For someone else to get it, it would probably cost 5-6 figures. We got lucky in getting it.

We also have a good way to reach out to these people (through proprietary tech), and don't use any paid ads.

The skip tracing is the issue. It costs about $0.03 per lead upfront.

But when deals close, it's a big profit, and it potentially scales if we can figure this out.



Yea, I'll be using the same exact strategy for commercial properties.

I haven't empirically tested them enough yet to give an answer on commercial.

But I assume (from what I've done so far in scraping commercial leads) that finding sellers is not much different than residential.
Sounds like you have a gold mine but you do not know how to get the gold nuggets old without violating the rules and laws and personal data protection.

Realtors, insurance advisors, and other sales people face these issues all the time. I feel you shouldn’t give up too early.

What I get is you do not have an excel spreadsheets of names and contacts, because selling that will be clearly illegal.

You have a datasets of information, which through skip tracing, can find out ways to reach out to the leads.

Therefore if you are a skip tracing company, not a lead generation company, and your skip tracing method is through digging into publicly available information, then it probably comes with much lower legal risk.

It is all about how you obtained the personal data. Personal data explicitly means names and contacts.

If a list piano teachers put out their contacts online to find students, I make it into a spreadsheet to be sold to others, I am just a data compiler.

You definitely should consult a lawyer in your country but my experience has been such that if the contacts are publicly available information, and you can prove that, that will eliminate much of the risk.
 
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Kevin88660

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I wish this worked,

But it is REALLY hard to get a seller to agree to speak with a realtor, let alone allow us to sell their data.

The business wouldn’t generate enough leads as we were personally vetting each lead on the phone to give our realtors the most quality leads possible
A lot of these things are gray.

The rules explicitly say what you cannot do.

But there are a thousands scenarios unexplained.

We use a “no objection means yes” approach to mitigate the risk to eliminate the 1 in 500, nothing better to do lead who threatens to make a complaint about every small thing.

Generate letters, message or emails stating that we will be contacting them for what purposes, and if they object, tell us explicitly in 10 working days or else we will proceed to contact them.

If the real world, if there is no complaint, no hassle.

If 25 replied no. You can kind of sure that the other 475 won’t complain if you call and offer your service.

The 25 won’t buy from you anyway. You are eliminating the 1 out of 25 who make a big fuss and get you involved in compliance regulation interviews.

People are a lot less offended if we tell them we are contacting you because of an earlier message and letter send to you.

But these should be the job of the realtors. You can work out something to refund the “invalid” leads.
 
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