Formal Education is Overrated!(or not?)

[Lenin]

In a time when the median price of a home in Manhattan is just over $1 million, according to real-estate website Trulia, experts say that being a millionaire no longer means that you’re rich.

Lmao, good luck with that. 1 mil? Maybe in Herlem next to a crackhouse.

America’s billionaires tend to also be among its most well-educated, recent research suggests. In “Investigating America’s Elite,” published in the journal Intelligence, Duke University psychologist Jonathan Wai found that billionaires are more likely than CEOs, judges, senators or House members to have attended colleges with the most rigorous admission standards

This is the part people leave out. Billionaires are highly educated; formal or otherwise.

Statistically those with a college education are more likely to be successful even in entrepreneurship. The stuff about 'college doesn't help entrepreneurs' is poppycock. You either need college or need a ton of self-motivation for self-education.

Harvard University has the No. 1 spot among the world’s universities for producing billionaires, according to Wealth-X, which ranked business schools in terms of number of billionaire alumni in a survey last January.

once I heard that instead of doing a master's or doctorate that will certainly cost you a lot, you could study a book called personal MBA; In this book, you promise that you can learn all the skills and knowledge you need and that they teach you in an MBA from a university.
As a second point on this topic, I recently began to learn a method called: JIT learning, which tells you that we should only learn as we need the specific knowledge for a specific case, because one forgets almost everything after a short time. Time to have studied. JIT learning means learning Just in time

 

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[ADayattheRoxbury]

I feel like another fad is to cite degrees that CEO’s have, as if that’s a good reason.

you need sales skills to start a successful company, not a diploma.

So if I have sales skills, yet know nothing about accounting, or how to continually increase my business’s valuation, i’ll be successful? Got it.

 

[ADayattheRoxbury]

I think there are lots of ways for one to gain valuable relationships, technical knowledge and work ethic skills, but for me, college put all of those things into a really expensive package, that the government helps you pay for. The relationships I made in college, are still paying dividends today. I wouldn’t have forced myself to learn a lot of the topics that college forced me to learn but others might.

If you are good at networking, studying on your own and can put in consistent work without having someone force you to (or you get a bad grade) then you definitely don’t need college. But for me, the value was immense. In my opinion? Anyone who is going to a top 25 school in the US will have a leg up on someone who doesn’t. The closer you are to the top of that list, the better. It’s my opinion, but it’s based on the results I’ve seen.

 

[ADayattheRoxbury]

Was just responding to what you said about needing only to know sales to be successful in business. I think it's a huge part, but not the end all be all, anyways. We're getting off topic /methinks.

 

[Ernman]

Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. Quite important for personality development. Handling your life following some rules makes it easy going and worth the effort. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.

I hate to sound rude and don't usually come off so negative, but this just doesn't make sense to me. I agree that formal education is not overrated. But with serious caveats such as, you'd better have a damned good idea what you want to study and why. My dreams growing up required such an education - I got it, pursued and lived my dreams. But too many people have no idea what they want to do in life and go mindlessly into debt for no reason.

I also do not agree with the argument that it is "required for your basic increment in knowledge." I know and work with some brilliant people who engineer some amazing things but have NO formal engineering education. They just happen to be wired that way.

"Quite important for personality development"? Again, I'm throwing down the BS flag. Some of the most arrogant and entitled losers I've ever known had masters degrees and PhD's. On the other hand, some of the kindest and most honorable people I've known never finished high school (US high school).

"Handling your life following some rules"? I know some Marines who might argue this.

Lastly, "educational requirements to get a good job". Again, I don't agree. Yes, certain formal education does lead to a good start and good "job". But, I believe most fastlaners would agree that a good job is not necessarily a good thing. And, just on this forum alone, we can find examples of very successful people sans formal education or who succeeded in fields other than those they spent thousands of dollars to study.

Sorry - I kind of got off on a rant here. My bottom line is that there's nothing wrong with formal education. But only if it is has a well considered reason. It should be considered an investment. And like any investment there are risks - such as being worthless.

 

[ADayattheRoxbury]

I hate to sound rude and don't usually come off so negative, but this just doesn't make sense to me. I agree that formal education is not overrated. But with serious caveats such as, you'd better have a damned good idea what you want to study and why. My dreams growing up required such an education - I got it, pursued and lived my dreams. But too many people have no idea what they want to do in life and go mindlessly into debt for no reason.

I also do not agree with the argument that it is "required for your basic increment in knowledge." I know and work with some brilliant people who engineer some amazing things but have NO formal engineering education. They just happen to be wired that way.

"Quite important for personality development"? Again, I'm throwing down the BS flag. Some of the most arrogant and entitled losers I've ever known had masters degrees and PhD's. On the other hand, some of the kindest and most honorable people I've known never finished high school (US high school).

"Handling your life following some rules"? I know some Marines who might argue this.

Lastly, "educational requirements to get a good job". Again, I don't agree. Yes, certain formal education does lead to a good start and good "job". But, I believe most fastlaners would agree that a good job is not necessarily a good thing. And, just on this forum alone, we can find examples of very successful people sans formal education or who succeeded in fields other than those they spent thousands of dollars to study.

Sorry - I kind of got off on a rant here. My bottom line is that there's nothing wrong with formal education. But only if it is has a well considered reason. It should be considered an investment. And like any investment there are risks - such as being worthless.

Without question, our educational system needs SERIOUS fixing to meet the needs of 21st century job market!

A) To become a Doctor (have 3 in my immediate family) you take 4 years of classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine. There is so much busy work, that is pointless and just there to have a place to put kids while their parents are working, which is an utter shame.

B) If you’re ahead of the class in terms of where your current knowledge lies, you are held back, rather than being able to test out and join more advanced classes

C) no child left behind was the WORST thing ever made. If a child can’t read or write properly, giving them a participation medal and putting them in a regular class, rather than a learning difficulties class, makes absolutely no sense. It hurts both the child, and the children around him.

D) We need to place a TON more emphasis on how money is earned in society, how to become a creator, rather than just a consumer. How to be a leader, rather than another worker bee.

Sadly, I think I’ll end up paying $12.5 to $29K per year for my child’s education... BEFORE college. Which is absolutely a travesty, but seems necessary if I want his/her learnings to be adaptable to his/her abilities.

 

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[deliux]

You wanna be doctor, physics, mathematician, chemist..... formal education is what you need. If you wanna be entrepreneur, politician, CEO, writer, business owner, in charge of your life .... formal education is not only ineffective but I strongly believe is poisoning. Well at least in form as it was when so was studying, but as I can see it did not change so much

 

[ChrisV]

Haha, dam that title made me click! good job

which one lol

 

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[Vairavan]

View attachment 27868

Exactly. School rewards you for following rules. But, in the real world, the rules are not clear.
So those who bend the rules and go on their own way have the highest chance of success.

 

[Ismail941]

@Vairavan

I think don't let the experts say about it

@ChrisV did share about billionaire based on statics in this forum

You Should look on that!

 

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[ADayattheRoxbury]

Not sure if you heard of Naval Ravikant,

but he says frequently that college is useless when it comes to building business.

Even Peter Thiel has said that college at this point is a scam. A lot of folks in silicon valley, or at least a certain segment of it, have been saying this.

I feel like this is the common fad thing to say nowadays. College isn’t necessary! Pass on it! Yet the CEO’s of most major tech companies have both an MS in Computer Science and an MBA. But screw that school thing man! Bill Gates dropped out of college! (After going to Lakeside Prep, a school with a cirriculum similar to most Ivy League schools.) hehe

 

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[Vairavan]

Let's assume you will fail in your ambitions of building a multimillion dollar company - worst case scenario - would you rather end up with a pocket full of mumbles in a world with ever-increasing demands on workers, or a well-paid worker drone with better circumstances?

What about the theory of "Burning Your Boats" so that you'll get into the mentality of "Do or Die Trying"?

 

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[MitchM]

My perception is that the "college sucks"-trope that's going on nowadays is largely because:

(A) It's what people want to hear. I notice lots of slowlaners have adopted the opinion -- probably because it means they don't need to hold themselves to as high standards. Why delay your gratification when you can order some bracelets from AliExpress right now and become an ENTREPRENEUR?

(B) It's what people want to focus on. All these people who talk about Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg may be unaware of the survivorship bias. How many dropouts end up like Bill Gates, and how many do not?

(C) It's what people want to say. If you never went to college it's tough to admit you perhaps made a suboptimal choice. Of course, most people will live with the belief that their way of life is the best. Why would they settle for less?

Of course, this also applies to university graduates. But the fact that non-university graduates say something the majority wants to believe may contribute to the popularity of their opinion.

Personally, I'm from both camps.

I'm a high-school dropout who never got a diploma in a country with no equivalent to the GEDs. But this year I used my entrepreneurial skills to literally talk my way into a Computer Science undergraduate programme in university. It's a cakewalk compared to real life, and most students will probably never amount to much. But if you go through it with a fastlane mindset... it will open your mind up to countless possibilites. And you'll get armed with a superpower called expertise in an area you can build solid companies off of.

A few weeks ago I went to Stockholm to see Nassim Taleb. He talked about aiming for optionality. An option is, according to him, something of limited downside with a large, open-ended upside. It made sense to me, as he managed to clearly articulate something I'd been thinking about for some time myself.

No one knows the future for certain. But everyone can improve their options and probabilities.

A teen could drop out of high school and work to achieve their dream of millions. But frankly, the odds are stacked against him. And what are his options if the dream does not play out within a couple years? McDonald's? Hustling on UpWork like everyone else in the gig economy (with no special skills, too)? Cleaning hepatitis-infected blood, piss, puke and shit in a hospital?

For an university graduate, the odds are also stacked against him. He could also end up on Mickey D's. But he could also end up armed with tons more knowledge, connections with the people who may not end up successful founders but C-suites, and potential for quite well-paid jobs that provide money, flexibility and experience which the high school dropout will not have.

Let's assume you will fail in your ambitions of building a multimillion dollar company - worst case scenario - would you rather end up with a pocket full of mumbles in a world with ever-increasing demands on workers, or a well-paid worker drone with better circumstances?

I don't only bat for the fences. I hedge myself as well.

I personally believe that if you are legitimately trying to build a multi-million dollar company.. and you fail.. you end up beyond qualified for most positions. Especially the positions of fresh graduates.

There is of course the exception of doctors, lawyers, and (although I’m not sure) engineers.

 

[Vairavan]

I think @MJ is the only person in this forum qualified to give a verdict on this.
He is both a millionaire and a graduate. So far as I remember he says education is not necessary to become a millionaire in his book.

The message is miscommunicated. See my reply to @JScott .

 

[Ing]

For me graduation was the entrance to a job I wanted.
I spent as little time as possible with studyin.
As a side hussle I had 2 things as an entrepreneur.
Now I m sorry about having finished them when I started the job.

I have learned how to design turbines, how to design molded parts, how to design technical things and how to calculate technical things, car parts and so on. It was very interesting and Im sure there were things I needed afterwards.
The main thing I learned was , that dealing with someting makes you an expert. No matter what.

 

[msufan]

The medical profession is one of the most heavily indoctrinated by their education, and almost all with whom I have had dealings are scared to step outside the orthodoxy of what they have learned.

Walter

In fairness, with life-and-death stakes, I can understand why medical students would lean heavily on outside expertise.

 

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[Jessesannicandro]

Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. Quite important for personality development. Handling your life following some rules makes it easy going and worth the effort. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.

 

[Solid Snake]

So if I have sales skills, yet know nothing about accounting, or how to continually increase my business’s valuation, i’ll be successful? Got it.

so i need a diploma to learn accounting and how to increase business valuations?

got it

 

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[ADayattheRoxbury]

so i need a diploma to learn accounting and how to increase business valuations?

got it

No, you don't, but it definitely would help if you're a poor self-study, like myself.

 

[Solid Snake]

\

Was just responding to what you said about needing only to know sales to be successful in business. I think it's a huge part, but not the end all be all, anyways. We're getting off topic /methinks.

fair enough, i get what you're saying.

 

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[LuckyPup]

I wonder if the "networking effect" that comes with going to big universities help with that? Im sure it does.

Sure does.

 

[Kevin88660]

Unfortunately, the fanatical adherence to the orthodox beliefs that have been embedded in their brains while studying at college is constantly being reinforced by the pharmaceutical industry, with the result that they become afraid to deviate.

I once had a GP who knew of my unorthodox approach to medical matters, and his son became desperately ill. Always careful to not offend, I casually mentioned an alternative treatment, and in desperation he seized on the information and applied it for his son. His son lived.

The practice nurse at a medical center saw me regularly, and also knew that I had an eclectic outlook, figuring that I should apply the best of both worlds. She recounted her mother's serious problem, the cause of which was nowhere near as major as mine, and I suspected she wanted to talk about my view on treatment.

I told her of a discovery that I had made while doing some pro bono research for a specialist with whom I was friendly. She gladly gave that non pharmaceutical treatment to her mother, with results that outshone the orthodox but unsuccessful treatment that her mother had endured for years.

I should add that I was born with a genetic problem which results in an average lifespan of 37.4 years, and rarely life beyond 50. I am now 80, having self medicated since being written off by one GP when I was 21, and later by one specialist. I nevertheless accepted pharmaceutical treatment when I deemed it to be the best option.

An eclectic approach can work, but qualified professionals need to remove their blinkers if they are to employ the best of both systems. Sadly that profession is a prime example of harm caused by college education.

Walter
P.S. I have practiced for many years as an unregistered naturopath and have never charged for my services. My specialist friend managed to arrange for me to receive medical journals and also access to research papers. I marvel when I see and hear medical professionals quote obsolete and clinically disproven medical "facts." Sorry if my RANT has hijacked this very interesting thread. Maybe my rant should be moved?

Dear you are 80 years old now, if I am not mistaken?

 

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[Kevin88660]

That is right. Still going strong.

Walter

That’s amazing. Wish you blessed with good health.

 

[Ing]

Formal education is a way to the ticket(degree) to a better j o b.
Not more and not less!

 

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[lewj24]

Over a long enough timeline, all colleges go bankrupt, and the free and open library of limitless knowledge known as the internet will laugh over its grave.

This isn't true at all.

Why do you think all colleges will go bankrupt? They've been around for hundreds of years and are currently making more money than ever.

People will still need college degrees to get jobs. The internet isn't going to stop employers from trashing resumes that don't meet their education requirements. Go tell a hiring manager at Boeing that you learned engineering on the internet and see if he gives you a job.

 

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[BlackSuperman]

This isn't true at all.

Why do you think all colleges will go bankrupt? They've been around for hundreds of years and are currently making more money than ever.

People will still need college degrees to get jobs. The internet isn't going to stop employers from trashing resumes that don't meet their education requirements. Go tell a hiring manager at Boeing that you learned engineering on the internet and see if he gives you a job.

I agree with this for the most part, except that more and more jobs are looking at candidates without college degrees but with projects under their belts.

Sure @ Boeing it may be tough, but what about tech startups? They are just as credible and yet don't require college degrees. Just college level education (no matter how you get it).

But again I do agree colleges will be around for years! But that is also due to having a population who need "guidance" and a "roadmap" to tell them how to achieve certain milestones in life.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

This isn't true at all.

lol, your life speaks for itself.

 

[lewj24]

Sure @ Boeing it may be tough, but what about tech startups? They are just as credible and yet don't require college degrees. Just college level education (no matter how you get it).

Tech startups might be different but I personally don't know of any in my area and I bet most people would say the same thing. Obviously, if you are starting a company or at a startup they will care more about results.

But if you want a job at any Fortune 500 or normal company they will have some requirements for education. And even if they only require a high school diploma they could receive 100 resumes for 1 position and 50 have college degrees and 50 don't. Who do you think they're going to choose? Who would you choose? Unless they find someone with a perfect resume they will quickly narrow it down to the 50 with college diplomas.

except that more and more jobs are looking at candidates without college degrees but with projects under their belts.

Which jobs? Coding and tech?

 

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[BlackSuperman]

Tech startups might be different but I personally don't know of any in my area and I bet most people would say the same thing. Obviously, if you are starting a company or at a startup they will care more about results.

But if you want a job at any Fortune 500 or normal company they will have some requirements for education. And even if they only require a high school diploma they could receive 100 resumes for 1 position and 50 have college degrees and 50 don't. Who do you think they're going to choose? Who would you choose? Unless they find someone with a perfect resume they will quickly narrow it down to the 50 with college diplomas.

Which jobs? Coding and tech?

Definitely tech. I agree with the fortune 500. But less and less workers are applying for Fortune 500's. There is a huge migration towards startups and growing SaaS companies.
I definitely want to dig into the why. But my assumption is that millenials & younger are looking for companies that allow a bit more "freedom" in the way work is done a.k.a. reduced strictness when it comes to position & authority.

Link to statistics from the claim I made earlier -https://itif.org/publications/2019/12/02/ten-facts-about-state-economy-us-workers-without-college-degrees