Formal Education is Overrated!(or not?)

[Primeperiwinkle]

This entire freaking thread is Scripted because you’re all defining “Formal Education” from an Industrialist’s point of view.

A teacher ONLY EXISTS to train you and get you a job, right???

^severe sarcasm

So this whole thread asks “how do we get from point A to point $$$$$ more efficiently? Do we need college to do it?”

Wrong. Wrong!!! So so so freaking wrong.

That premise is fatal!

A real education, a real teacher, is one that connects a person to great minds in Art, Literature, History, Nature, and the ever-changing kaleidoscope we call Science.

Education is a life, an atmosphere, a culture of existence where your heart is changed and challenged; where your soul can soar... not just be shoved into the shape of a cog. It’s NOT “here go do this and make some cash”.

I can learn how to DO almost anything by watching YouTube or researching online but a real education isn’t being a mindless, heartless automaton who just performs a task, a real education from an experienced wiser more mature teacher questions who we are to BE and opens up possibilities for us to LOVE.

You might find a teacher like that in a great college. You might find a great teacher like that in your local library. You might find him sweeping the alleyway like Mr. Miyagi.

You wanna be a leader who shapes the next generation and impacts others and GENUINELY ADDS VALUE? You can’t learn that from just YouTube! You gotta immerse yourself with excellent ideas and find someone who will inspire you with their passion.. oh ffs.

Blah! I’ve been up all night chasing down products on six different apps.. (totes procrastinating from what I’m supposed to be doing I might add) I can’t even make a good sentence right now.. but to dismiss the breadth and width of what a great education is.. that’s just creating more sheep!

Come on. We can do better. This isn’t a question of college or not. It’s the intent behind WHATEVER EDUCATION YOU PURSUE.

Are you going somewhere to gain a job or to enrich your soul? Cuz.. one of those things is NOT like the other.

 

[fastlanedoll]

Yes, I'm planning to be both an entrepreneur & a doctor.

Doctors are indispensable and do a world of good (literally), if you're doing it right.
Medicine is an art that is continually refined by the experience you gain from reading and practising that I believe no AI can fully replace (at least not in our lifetime).

Even with advances like robotic surgery; would you really trust a robot to operate on you?
A robot is a machine, with no real senses or process of thought. Soo many things can go wrong in an operation that one technical mishap in the robot, and your operation is completely effed.

I'd rather practice medicine in a field that doesn't require the extreme long hours (ER is an example), earn an above average salary, so that I can use the income to both enjoy my life and have more capital to invest into a potential business.

Even if you're not doing medicine, your degree will give you a leg-up on people who don't have one (assuming all else is equal). Some jobs REQUIRE a degree. Period. And you'll most likely earn more than those who don't, which then also gives you a leg up in the entrepreneurial world.

I haven't read the whole thread (only the last page), but I agree that four years wasted learning something you'll NEVER use, is a waste.

It's not about the degree itself, but choosing that degree wisely so that not only it gives you a leg-up, but assists you in whatever endeavour you choose to take on later.

 

[Kevin88660]

It is overrated if you expect them to teach you how to make money directly.

But I think college education still have far more good benefits.

1) Network. It is harder to make friends after you leave schools and step out in the working world. I am a financial consultant and my high school and University network forms a good client pool.

2) Ecosystem. Even if you are into doing business if you go to a good school you are more likely to find capable business partners. A good school with alumni entrepreneurs give you good connection on business network and potential fundings. There is a reason why so many ultra successful entrepreneurs drop out from top tier schools not average schools. They managed to find enough resources there while being in the school.

3) Critical thinking ability- It is very easy to get sucked into the guru worship crap while navigating alone in the cyber space for business and life advice. Tertiary institutions teach you that.

 

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[Dan_Cardone]

It is overrated if you expect them to teach you how to make money directly.

But I think college education still have far more good benefits.

1) Network. It is harder to make friends after you leave schools and step out in the working world. I am a financial consultant and my high school and University network forms a good client pool.

2) Ecosystem. Even if you are into doing business if you go to a good school you are more likely to find capable business partners. A good school with alumni entrepreneurs give you good connection on business network and potential fundings. There is a reason why so many ultra successful entrepreneurs drop out from top tier schools not average schools. They managed to find enough resources there while being in the school.

3) Critical thinking ability- It is very easy to get sucked into the guru worship crap while navigating alone in the cyber space for business and life advice. Tertiary institutions teach you that.

I somewhat agree on #1.

I think the problem isn't that schools make it easy to network (they do), but that people are horrible at networking in general. In today's hyper connected world its super easy to meet and network with people but few people take the time to understand how.

Going to a university almost "forces" a person to interact with others which is why they always find networking easier there. I tell everyone, school or no school, make it a goal to reach out to five people a week who can help you in some way. Find a way to also provide value to them and in no time a large network will be formed.

Agree on #2.

Strongly disagree on #3. Have you seen the majority of kids in college (or freshly graduated) lately? Bunch of sheep! Thats all I'll say about that...

 

[Lex DeVille]

Strongly disagree on #3. Have you seen the majority of kids in college (or freshly graduated) lately? Bunch of sheep! Thats all I'll say about that...

I agree, and I think it's another one of those areas where you bring it with you rather than developing it during.

Recently I joined a Facebook group for my school. There are hundreds if not thousands of posts by students who have no idea why they picked their major or why they're going to college.

Every day there's another post with some variation of:

"Did I pick the right college?"
"Did I pick the right major?"
"What can I do with my major?"
"I found out I hate my major, should I keep going?"

These are currently enrolled students, many of which are 3/4ths finished. I find it deeply troubling that they're asking these questions after amassing 10 years worth of debt.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Unfortunately, the fanatical adherence to the orthodox beliefs that have been embedded in their brains while studying at college is constantly being reinforced by the pharmaceutical industry, with the result that they become afraid to deviate.

I once had a GP who knew of my unorthodox approach to medical matters, and his son became desperately ill. Always careful to not offend, I casually mentioned an alternative treatment, and in desperation he seized on the information and applied it for his son. His son lived.

The practice nurse at a medical center saw me regularly, and also knew that I had an eclectic outlook, figuring that I should apply the best of both worlds. She recounted her mother's serious problem, the cause of which was nowhere near as major as mine, and I suspected she wanted to talk about my view on treatment.

I told her of a discovery that I had made while doing some pro bono research for a specialist with whom I was friendly. She gladly gave that non pharmaceutical treatment to her mother, with results that outshone the orthodox but unsuccessful treatment that her mother had endured for years.

I should add that I was born with a genetic problem which results in an average lifespan of 37.4 years, and rarely life beyond 50. I am now 80, having self medicated since being written off by one GP when I was 21, and later by one specialist. I nevertheless accepted pharmaceutical treatment when I deemed it to be the best option.

An eclectic approach can work, but qualified professionals need to remove their blinkers if they are to employ the best of both systems. Sadly that profession is a prime example of harm caused by college education.

Walter
P.S. I have practiced for many years as an unregistered naturopath and have never charged for my services. My specialist friend manged to arrange for me to receive medical journals and also access to research papers. I marvel when I see and hear medical professionals quote obsolete and clinically disproven medical "facts." Sorry if my RANT has hijacked this very interesting thread. Maybe my rant should be moved?

Your rant should absolutely NOT be removed!! I want to hug you! I’m so glad you took your own medical care in your hands and can tell ppl about it! Well done sir! Well done!

 

[Vairavan]

My apologies, @Vairavan!

Apology accepted.

 

[Walter Hay]

Dear you are 80 years old now, if I am not mistaken?

That is right. Still going strong.

Walter

 

[Walter Hay]

In my earlier post I mentioned that family poverty necessitated that I leave school early. As a result I dropped out of High School at the age of 15.

I reluctantly attended night school studying accountancy. The most valuable part of that course was Commercial Law which I enjoyed, but as for bean counting it bored me stiff, so I quit the course and got a job as a messenger boy at a shipping company.

After a while I got a job as company accountant for a subsidiary of a listed company. I had no qualifications but I could sell. I sold my ability to do the job.

I used that sales ability to talk my way into an unadvertised job as accountant for a new car dealership. I figured that I could generate opportunities to sell cars, and with the owner's permission to approach prospects when there were no salesmen available I soon sold more than the pros.

That was a result of a) Product knowledge. I knew far more about every make and model than the pros and they relied on me to answer prospects' questions. b) I would not use their scam techniques. Instead I gave genuine help.

That sales experience helped me get a job selling highly technical chemicals where I doubled sales every year on a compound basis for 3 years.

Reading and experience were my educators and members can read more of that story by viewing my thread:

How I Made My First Million and the Next…….​

Walter

 

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[steve schweitzer]

I remember a quote that says:

formal education will make you a living
self education will make you wealthy

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Are you saying they are successful entrepreneurs because they went to college? And that the more prestigious the college, the more statistically likely they are to be billionaire successful?

Is it possible they had the qualities/traits to be billionaire successful before going to college and the colleges picked them because they have those traits. In that case, the colleges don't really add much to the person, they just manage to pick out those who will be successful.

It seems like you say this later on:


So is this REALLY true?


Or do colleges just know how to pick people who would have been successful without the college?

Correlation not causation

 

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[ChrisV]

Or do colleges just know how to pick people who would have been successful without the college?

This is complex but they essentially pick people who are good raw material; so yes they would have likely been successful without that particular college BUT theres a caveat. Education allows you to act effectively in a position. You're not going to be a good heart surgeon without proper training. The research seems to indicate that those people would do well regardless of which medical school they choose; but at the same time you need some type of training to do heart surgery. So that's how education matters.

 

[Ismail941]

If you have Access to Silicon Valley -> Yes

 

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[broswoodwork]

I’m not a big fan of the amount of hate that formal ed receives around here sometimes.

Most of the top successful Fastlaners are university educated.

Sure you can self-educate yourself, but a lot of people self-educate and then come out believing in The Secret Law of Attraction or that Vaccines cause autism.

The problem with self-education is that there’s no quality control. People just read some alternative medicine blog or Conspiracy theory website and think it's true. You really need a good way of separating the truth from the bullshit, and that's a skill that's really emphasized in universities.

The information presented in legit universities have been thoroughly vetted and fact-checked and are based on research.

Sure universities aren’t perfect, but they’re really great places to learn.

I know 2 pharm d's that believe vaccines are a contributing factor to asd, so even amongst highly educated and board certified professionals, there's dissenting opinion. I don't have a well formed opinion myself, despite a somewhat sturdy life sciences background, so I leave that debate to art students and hillbillies on facebook to hammer out.

 

[MythOfSisyphus]

I wonder if the "networking effect" that comes with going to big universities help with that? Im sure it does.

And also the fact that you're more likely to come from an already wealthy family.

 

[Vairavan]

I would argue college made me a critical thinker, but the stuff that ended up making me money I taught myself out of books / youtube.

I thought formal education is what kills critical thinking and also creativity.

 

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[James Klymus]

I think it's overrated when you don't know what you want to do, Which as a 17-18 year old kid, I don't know how anyone expects you to know what you want to do for the rest of your life.

So you end up going to a 4 year school for 5-6 years at $10-20k a semester, finance it and end up with $100k+ in student loan debt. All because you didn't know what you wanted to do. Maybe you even get a useless theater degree or liberal arts degree.

Then you're stuck paying off a mortgage sized student loan debt for the next decade plus, Probably working a job you could have gotten after high school.

Then it cripples your ability to risk, because you owe the government money and can't bankrupt it no matter what.

In my opinion it's better to go get a job at a restaurant, or work at a trade, or just get a full time job if you don't know what path you want to take. Get some real world experience and see how much having a crappy job sucks.

Even if you went to a community college and spent $1k a semester, id rather save that in the bank and use it for when I know what I want to do.

I'm not saying everyone should be an entrepreneur and drop out, most people don't want that. But I ended up wasting a lot of my parent's money just to fail classes and drop out of college. And college is one expensive way to "find your self"

As for people saying "college sucks and it's useless", I think it's because we're in a bit of an echo chamber here because we know of an alternative way to live life and make a living. Plus most of us will be biased to pay attention when we hear someone say college sucks, since a lot of us have taken a different path, and we want to justify our own choices and strengthen our own arguments.

School isn't good or bad, it's just a tool that some people use in the wrong way.

 

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[AFMKelvin]

Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.

Required for your basic increment in knowledge.

If you think knowledge can only be found in college your already limiting yourself. Where did people get knowledge before colleges existed?

People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career

This board is not meant to find a job or a career but to start a business and become a millionaire. That's the context of asking if going to college increases those odds of hitting it big.

 

[Vairavan]

.

 

[Champion]

Haha, dam that title made me click! good job

 

[Ismail941]

 

[Solid Snake]

I feel like this is the common fad thing to say nowadays. College isn’t necessary! Pass on it! Yet the CEO’s of most major tech companies have both an MS in Computer Science and an MBA. But screw that school thing man! Bill Gates dropped out of college! (After going to Lakeside Prep, a school with a cirriculum similar to most Ivy League schools.) hehe

I feel like another fad is to cite degrees that CEO’s have, as if that’s a good reason.

you need sales skills to start a successful company, not a diploma.

 

[Vairavan]

Then on the actual job, we just had to walk around the site with a checklist telling employees to wear their safety helmets and uniform.

This exact sentiment is shared by my friends who finished college. They can't believe they wasted 4 years learning stuff they'll never use in their life.

 

[Deleted50669]

I thought formal education is what kills critical thinking and also creativity.

Anyways, can I ask you Which Youtube Videos helped you the most?

You can't ask, because I don't have a single answer. I'm speaking to a barrage of programming and startup strategy videos that I've referenced along the way.

 

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[JSM]

In my experience, I’m glad I’m going to college. It is a great time to take risks without as many responsibilities. Everyone is too focused on the wrong stuff. College isn’t about the degree. Even if your goal was to go get a job. Employers don’t care about a high gpa. They have what they consider good a good gpa and that is probably around a 3.0. As long as you’re above that you’re golden.

Going to college is about networking. Doing all the extracurriculars. Trying new stuff, meeting new people. Personally, I’ve become a lot better at just talking to people. I’m in clubs learning about things that I’m interested in. I think I’m benefitting from going to college and I have so many more resources at my fingertips. I can 3D print stuff for “free”. I can talk to lawyers for “free”. I can connect with successful entrepreneurs in the city because I paid $50 to join a club. “Free” because I’m paying tuition but I think there are a lot of benefits to going to college as long as you focus on the right things.

 

[Vairavan]

Yup, pretty sure that MJ is the only millionaire and graduate on this forum...

But, let's say -- completely hypothetically, of course -- that there were other millionaire/graduates on this forum. Would their opinion carry as much weight?

Looks like your millionaire ego got stroked.

Really sorry. My mistake. The message is not communicated clearly.

I didn't say @MJ is the only millionaire here. I know that there are many more people here like you, @biophase ,@Kak ,@Vigilante ,@SteveO ,@AllenCrawley ,etc who are also millionaires.(To the best of my knowledge) But, I don't know about their education and their opinion about the importance of it.

Since I know for sure @MJ is a graduated millionaire who also said education is not necessary to make millions I asked that question. My question was Knowing what he now knows would he graduated in the first place? The answer could instantly settle this debate.

 

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[Vairavan]

People who have it in them to be successful will find a way to rise to their potiental, degree or not.

True. That's why one should not waste their time getting a degree.

 

[Kevin88660]

Strongly disagree on #3. Have you seen the majority of kids in college (or freshly graduated) lately? Bunch of sheep! Thats all I'll say about that...

It is more about the thought process that an academia cultivates.

Business world personality is about strong execution ability and optimism.

Academia personality is like a deep thinker, many times playing the role of a cynic. Being open minded but often paying attention to evidence.

I think a healthy combination of the two would be good.

Without execution you can have all the knowledge in your brain but not amounting to anything. We know that.

But a lot of 20 plus year olds just got sucked into doing mindless MLM and chasing the latest fad. It is another problem to waste 3-5 years of your time.

Where do you drawing the line between wasting your time on a failed project versus not giving up a potential idea too early without tweaking some variables? This is a common example that I think we need to put on the analyst hat and have a systematic approach to this. It is a technical question on probability and opportunity cost. It is very hard to see things this way without having a colleague training (that encourage you or force you to read research papers in any discipline).

The cyber space of business and self-help guru like to paint things in black and white. They often say there is an old way of doing things that is “outdated and bad”. And they have found the holy grail that will Solve all your problem. There is always a “best”way of doing certain things. 1) Internet business is the best because it gives you Low startup cost and unlimited scalability ...sounds popular?
2) Real estate investing is the best because the bank give you a high leverage through mortgage and a consistent stream of rental income. Sounds popular? Oh no no be like Buffett or Munger and buy a few good companies and them forever...

The problem is that all these mantra only promote the good side of the story and not cautioning on the other side. I remember that in high school we are trained to write argumentative essays where we have to give two sides of opposing opinions before jumping to a balanced conclusion favoring one Side over the other. I find this such a useful attitude navigating the cyber world of Business and Investing.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

For F*ck sake this topic has been beaten to death.

Does college get you closer to your goals?

If so, do it.

If not, don't.

It's that simple.

College is not the end-all-be-all to success, and neither is skipping out on it.

^yea. That’s exactly what it took me four hundred words to say. Omg

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

^yea. That’s exactly what it took me four hundred words to say. Omg

Simplicity is bliss.