Finally... the solution to poverty :P Looks easier than we all think!

[smarty]

It's so sarcastic, I couldn't hold myself without posting this.

 

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[Shades]

I will never get my mind around the redistribution of wealth and taking more from businesses theory. Which is what Brand believes in. Im not rich in any way yet, but I still just dont get it. WTF is there to work for then? Why strive for anything better? O wait, I guess it does make sense since most dont want to work or strive for anything. They want someone else to do it and then take more money from that person.

When I think of what I want in life I think about what I have to do in order to accomplish goals to get there. Not about who can be taxed more to put more money in my pocket.

It might seem harsh but I think maybe the problem is that theres just a lot of dumb people out there. In a time where you can learn nearly anything you want on your own using the internet, people are getting dumber it seems. You can learn almost any new skill on your own, and people are getting lazier. How is that?

People are willing to go to a college for 4 years and most likely not even ending up with a job in their field. But when it comes to learning something on their own thats just too much to ask. Its because without their hand being held thru every step in life, whether thats a teacher or a boss, they are completely lost.

 

[RHL]

This is older than the internet, but also happens to be one of the most accurate cartoons ever produced:

Of course, people always snigger that reducing spending on Blu-Rays and designer shoes could lift you out of poverty, but assuming that as soon as you cut your spending on $20-50/week frivolities you'll be a millionaire is as stupid as thinking a former couch potato is going to power clean 180 lbs on his first trip to the gym. He'll get there, but only if he cuts the daily beer, the 3000 calories of empty carbs per day, and buckles down.

I do a lot of work with the homeless, and a lot of them have mental illnesses that make regular work impossible. That's why charity is so important; I don't blame the mentally infirm or victims of capricious circumstance (abandoned by birth parents, English not spoken in the home, etc.) for needing extra help.

I have the least sympathy for people like the ones in the image above, and it's because they want the life other people have carved out for themselves, but are unwilling to take the very measures those people frequently took to get there when politely suggested to them. Yeah, you've gotta hustle and produce cash, but hustling gains muscle the more the more cash you have, so that $30 video game that seemed like NBD, multiplied by 12 game purchases per month, becomes a high-end electric guitar that can be hustled on Craigslist for half a months rent.

 

[Writer]

This is older than the internet, but also happens to be one of the most accurate cartoons ever produced:

I had never seen this before. I am going to print it and keep it in my wallet forever.

As for redistribution... well, some of it is necessary. Financing K-12 and highways is a form of redistribution. However, the problem is that people feel entitled to everything. I see it everyday at my (sucky) dayjob.

 

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[Entrepreneur21]

I had never seen this before. I am going to print it and keep it in my wallet forever.

As for redistribution... well, some of it is necessary. Financing K-12 and highways is a form of redistribution. However, the problem is that people feel entitled to everything. I see it everyday at my (sucky) dayjob.

So much this in Denmark we have like the highest taxes in the world, 45 % of the taxes are paid by the 1% richest in the country and when you make a certain amount of money the tax percentage is bumped up to like 70 %, blows my mind that the government actually punishes the people creating the jobs. As for the entitlement... everyone one here thinks that it is totally fair that when you have a lot of money you pay for everyone else. sigh...

 

[Writer]

So much this in Denmark we have like the highest taxes in the world, 45 % of the taxes are paid by the 1% richest in the country and when you make a certain amount of money the tax percentage is bumped up to like 70 %, blows my mind that the government actually punishes the people creating the jobs. As for the entitlement... everyone one here thinks that it is totally fair that when you have a lot of money you pay for everyone else. sigh...

that's because governments are slow to understand that the world has changed, and the ECB willfully ignores any signal, and symptom, requiring more austerity instead of encouraging investments.
The truth is that companies now can move anywhere in the world. See Italian FIAT, a company with a hundred years of italian history... is now in a different country. Many other companies are moving overseas, in Asia etc.

 

[Hope]

If Russel brand wants to help poor people so much, why doesn't he start by selling his luxury cars and his 2.2 million dollar mansion?

Oh wait I forgot, wealth redistribution is only good when other people do it... right...

 

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[Waisec]

So I'm guessing Russell Brand proposes we should take from the rich and businesses and give it to the poor. Yeah, let's penalize success!

I was born a few months before the break up of Soviet Union, in which my country had the 'privilege' to be a part of. My parents on the other hand even had the opportunity to work in that absolutely blissful socialism. Yeah, people were for the most part equal... equally poor. No-one had the motivation to work hard, cos the lazy drunk next to you earned just as much as you did. No incentive to stand out, be innovative, work hard or take risks... and well, you can read the results of that experiment from the history books and yet, there are still these people that believe there's something wrong with inequality and the poor DESERVE to have money given to them by the rich

ΕΝΔΕΚΑ's example shows exactly why majority of the poor live from paycheck to paycheck.

Here's someone who has opposite views than Brand and can be equally as sarcastic and hilarious:

 

[Shades]

So I'm guessing Russell Brand proposes we should take from the rich and businesses and give it to the poor. Yeah, let's penalize success!

I was born a few months before the break up of Soviet Union, in which my country had the 'privilege' to be a part of. My parents on the other hand even had the opportunity to work in that absolutely blissful socialism. Yeah, people were for the most part equal... equally poor. No-one had the motivation to work hard, cos the lazy drunk next to you earned just as much as you did. No incentive to stand out, be innovative, work hard or take risks... and well, you can read the results of that experiment from the history books and yet, there are still these people that believe there's something wrong with inequality and the poor DESERVE to have money given to them by the rich

ΕΝΔΕΚΑ's example shows exactly why majority of the poor live from paycheck to paycheck.

Here's someone who has opposite views than Brand and can be equally as sarcastic and hilarious:

Even people who believe in it struggle to talk about it without sounding ridiculous.

I wonder if people are unsuccessful because the rich wont give them more money........or could it just be that they are lazy or dumb or maybe they are going back to college for their 2nd four year degree since shockingly they couldn't get a job with their Early Childhood Education degree. This time they are gonna go for the sociology degree, thats gonna be the one that pays off!

I noticed this happening a lot more. People that either cant get a job with their degree or dont really want to so they keep finding something to go back to school for, because that is the answer. As if there is something at the end of that rainbow. Some people could have been a doctor with the amount of years they spend in school. But they end up with a degree that allows them to work at a daycare or be a child care worker.

 

[Mattie]

They go back to school because they can live off their student loans. It's an excuse to stay on welfare, because it's an option versus going to the work programs. If you're in school, you don't have to show up at the work program. The work programs tell them they can't find a job. lol Because certain age groups aren't being hired, and harder to get hired. Children gives them food and monthly allowance. It's methods to survive.

The non-profits assist the best they can. Education is an important key here. The thing is College's advertise 100% job placement. Which is not accurate. They count all the Mcdonald's jobs. I believe people get defeated because they get the run around from family, friends, and don't have the mindset to succeed. There oblivious too it, because they've been programmed what the generation before did themselves.

I try talking to some of these people now, and some of them are open to it and I even give a link to M.J.'s book. It doesn't enter their mind unless someone brings it up. Others don't see it as a possibility. Two last week were like this stuff doesn't happen. lol Readiness is important key here, and when they're in that place, it doesn't matter what you say if they aren't ready.

 

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[davedev]

Disclaimer, this is all my opinion. I still have much research to do and time to sort out my thoughts. This kind of stuff burns me up though.

You can see the greed in Brand's eyes (and those who they convince to think this way).

"Obviously the money is out there" *Googly Eyes* *drool*

What disgusts me is how easy they make it sound. Like I can just waltz out of my home, stomp over a few 3rd world countries and poof! Now I'm sippin' margaritas on my $100,000,000 carbon-fiber-clad super yacht. And if anyone dares to offend me? Off they go! Overboard! International waters playa! Fastlane!

The subconscious implication is that if I can make the contract with the devil to screw over my fellow man, riches are assured.

And by contrast this implies, the poor are righteous and holy who by refusing such a contract are simply hopelessly crushed in the meat grinder called Capitalism.

Life is not so simple. It gets far more grey.

Yes there are billionaire scumbags. Yes, there are poor saints who deserve a far better break than they are getting too.

But how can you have an intelligent discussion when we're talking about net worths between $1,000,000 to $76,000,000,000?

I've been there. As a 'kid' some early thoughts were "what do they need with all that money anyway?" "there's only so much you can buy." "Bill Gates wouldn't miss a few mil" LOL.

Not once did I ever think of "hm maybe it is ME who needs to become more for other people." I grew up poor. In the hood. People going through the free lunch line, a few kids had crisp Nikes and throwbacks on. My Parents weren't the richest but they always found money for myself and my brother's N64 habit. It's just life. People want those around them to achieve some measure of happiness...and it makes them feel better to sacrifice their own well-being for their child's.

The problem arises IMO is when that unfocused self-sacrifice attitude gets combined with some crazy belief system.

Most people have a story in their head that if they suffer and struggle enough, deserve enough, and will-it-strongly enough they can 'attract' wealth.

What a terrible combination. Eating your seed corn (for any reason) + believing that "it'll all work out in the end" (foolish optimism) + "I'm waiting on those guys to fix 'that stuff out there' before I change" <--- Jim Rohn has a great rant on that.

It gets worse too.

Now if you join yourself with this downtrodden group (politically) you can score points for being a compassionate soul. Very dangerous.

Why? Often times those with the biggest heart and concern for the poor simply end up giving them (or promising to) give them a fish, instead of teaching them to fish. (for various reasons).

Why not teach one to fish?

Well in order to teach, you have to believe that people are capable of more than they currently are. A true music teacher hears a 9th grader honking on that saxophone -- sounds like a slaughtered calf, but he hears a future Sonny Rollins at the Village Vanguard. In short, it's faith.

But why not teach? Well, it's easier to create a story that works for you.... "Well, they have lost so much already, the last thing they need is for someone to tell them they have to struggle harder than the next man just to get to the same place that he is at." (I don't want to be that guy who breaks that news)

"They've heard this enough already, and the last thing they need to know is that yet another thing about life is unfair." (I don't want to be that guy who breaks that news)

"So lets just meet them where they are, give them enough fish to sustain them for a meager life -- besides, it gets us votes, and respect in the wider community". (ahh, relief!)

It's far more advantageous to be seen as the caring mom that kisses the 'boo-boo' and says it's going to be alright, than to be the stern father who barks back "stop your crying." (reverse the roles if needed).

But what they don't understand is that there is nothing more resilient than the human spirit.

 

[ilrein]

Thank goodness for that Kevin O'Leary clip. A true hero of our time.

 

[Hope]

Another thing I find extremely ironic.

Only rich people have the capability to do marvelous things such as giving millions or even billions away to charities, or even creating their own charities and changing the lives of millions if not billions of people single handedly, yet they are the ones who get the most hate.

To be not only self-sufficient but also to give a helping hand to others at no benefit to yourself is a very righteous path indeed.

 

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[Phantom309]

With the lack of having anything nice to say about Brand, all I can say is if he so worried about inequality he can start with redistributing his wealth. Once he starts I'll start with what little wealth I have.

Secondly I hope O'Leary gets everything he wants for christmas, he was spot on with his remarks

 

[Mattie]

Personally most side walk individuals don't have a clue about donations, fundraising, or who supports those non-profits. They show up and are given stuff, but they don't ask questions. If they happen to volunteer or do an internship through college than they learn the ropes and behind the scenes. The grants, fundraising, marketing, and donations.

It really depends on the community. Like in my area most people in the community donate to non-profits in the community. They are very big in helping humanity. We also don't have a lot of crime and gang related stuff. You move over to the surrounding cities you have the crimes, gangs, and still the communities are active, but more hidden rather than people being aware.

We have thick book or resources we're given in college with all the places that help people. Fortunately no one would know unless they were referred, or had that book available.

People do abuse the system. There are also those that don't abuse it, but found themselves there by bad choices. You know the one's that want to help themselves because they usually go through financial counseling, or go to A.A. or what ever requirements are necessary. Like the car-link program I used to financial counsel single mothers and teach them to budge their money. They were required to come every week, and I had a book I had to go through to they had to complete. They had to show they could pay for car-insurance, license plates, and pay for gas every week. They of course had to list everywhere there money goes, and where to break bad habits.

Yes the one's that weren't serious about helping themselves quit about the third time. Others that wanted to help themselves would complete the program and than someone that donated them a used car to get to work would be provided. That program no longer exists. Instead they donate to another car place where they sell them for a few hundred dollars.

The same with housing. You usually have to have case manager and financial counseling and one organization will work with you for 6 months to get on your feet. There's always a balance of those that want to change and better themselves and those who don't.

I suppose I'm just not effected by those that don't want to help themselves or complain about it, because I've already seen enough offline to know you can't help everyone if they don't want to help themselves. Those that hate are usually the one's that don't want to be responsible. I even witnessed this when others have had their children taken away. I was blamed for it in my neighborhood because they new it was my field. I never reported them. There mistake was leaving their children home unsupervised and another parent was searching for a child and the child went in her home. The police went in there to get someone's child.

So this is just bad parenting, and not knowing how to make common sense choices. I believe you have different levels of poverty and there are just a diversity of reasons why. Mental Illness, Drugs, Alcohol, to name a few. Some are disabled physically, and others are mentally impaired or disabled and have children where they can't make choices.

The hate I think can come from the rich and the poor. Again at opposite ends of the spectrum. I see in my community that Doctors, Lawyers, Dentist's and higher contribute and do things to help humanity. I also see the one's that bash and hate and won't help the poor at all. So really the poor can be very grateful, and appreciative, and others very hateful. It depends on their experience and attitude.

 

[DayIFly]

In general, I am of the same opinion as you all and I think Kevin O´Leary is spot on (but only in a perfect world).


(Side note: I don´t like O´Leary´s thoughts on socialism because he lumps together everybody. It isn´t as easy as he explained it... As politics is a tochy subject, I won´t go there (I hope the rest of the post is okay in regards to that.)

I was born a few months before the break up of Soviet Union, in which my country had the 'privilege' to be a part of. My parents on the other hand even had the opportunity to work in that absolutely blissful socialism. Yeah, people were for the most part equal... equally poor. No-one had the motivation to work hard, cos the lazy drunk next to you earned just as much as you did. No incentive to stand out, be innovative, work hard or take risks...

My parents lived in such a country too. As far as I recall, there wasn´t a problem with motivation or incentive because if you you deliberately didn´t want to work you could go to jail. Not that this is a good thing... They went through their day like normal people today. Look at/Remember your day job, most are not motivated as well, e.g., work in one tab, Facebook in the other, etc. But you´re right, innovation and thus the standard of living is severly hampered if you are not allowed to open up a company.)


I like the success mindset that we engage in here on the forum and if you morals/ethics are right, then it´s absolutely correct to assume the view of O´Leary, especially if you worked hard for your goals and all your business friends/network are honest people.

The problem with this thinking is, that it´s as extreme as the idea to give all your money to the poor. I think you should keep the positivity but don´t neglect the reality.

It´s all about the individual entrepreneur and as such, there are a lot of good ones out there but there are also scumbags who enrich themselves at the expense of honest people. There are/were illegal monopolies, schemes, exploitations of people in poor countries, etc. Rich families who amassed their wealth in the past by breaking the law and/or abusing the circumstances that there weren´t any regulations yet. It´s simply life, there are all sort of things happening all the time.

As always, the reality is in the middle. Not all rich people are rich because they created tons of value. There is shady stuff going on. Also, not all rich people are unethical and squeeze all the money from the poor; there are people who created and create massive amounts of value. And I bet and personally kinda know deep down that the value-creaters are in the majority.

The same goes on for consumers. There are honest people, but also some who try to scam the business owner. Same story.

So for me, idolizing every business owner is in the same category as hating all rich people (globally speaking).

The question is, how do you fix that? Wealth redistribution would certainly reduce scamming big time, but also would reduce creating value big time...

 

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[smarty]

I didn't expect that many replies to something I posted mostly for fun. It's funny watching everyone wrestling with their own ego trying to convince everyone else that "my way is the way and the right thing to do". Keep it easy folks. If you can resolve your own finances, you will be pretty awesome. Let the bigger world problems resolve themselves for now

 

[Waisec]

In general, I am of the same opinion as you all and I think Kevin O´Leary is spot on (but only in a perfect world).

(Side note: I don´t like O´Leary´s thoughts on socialism because he lumps together everybody. It isn´t as easy as he explained it... As politics is a tochy subject, I won´t go there (I hope the rest of the post is okay in regards to that.)

My parents lived in such a country too. As far as I recall, there wasn´t a problem with motivation or incentive because if you you deliberately didn´t want to work you could go to jail. Not that this is a good thing... They went through their day like normal people today. Look at/Remember your day job, most are not motivated as well, e.g., work in one tab, Facebook in the other, etc. But you´re right, innovation and thus the standard of living is severly hampered if you are not allowed to open up a company.)


I like the success mindset that we engage in here on the forum and if you morals/ethics are right, then it´s absolutely correct to assume the view of O´Leary, especially if you worked hard for your goals and all your business friends/network are honest people.

The problem with this thinking is, that it´s as extreme as the idea to give all your money to the poor. I think you should keep the positivity but don´t neglect the reality.

It´s all about the individual entrepreneur and as such, there are a lot of good ones out there but there are also scumbags who enrich themselves at the expense of honest people. There are/were illegal monopolies, schemes, exploitations of people in poor countries, etc. Rich families who amassed their wealth in the past by breaking the law and/or abusing the circumstances that there weren´t any regulations yet. It´s simply life, there are all sort of things happening all the time.

As always, the reality is in the middle. Not all rich people are rich because they created tons of value. There is shady stuff going on. Also, not all rich people are unethical and squeeze all the money from the poor; there are people who created and create massive amounts of value. And I bet and personally kinda know deep down that the value-creaters are in the majority.

The same goes on for consumers. There are honest people, but also some who try to scam the business owner. Same story.

So for me, idolizing every business owner is in the same category as hating all rich people (globally speaking).

The question is, how do you fix that? Wealth redistribution would certainly reduce scamming big time, but also would reduce creating value big time...

Any system or economic model with people in them is going to have its issues. Create a perfect system, now add people to that mix and observe how a tiny percentage of those people will be looking for loopholes, abusing the system and trying to gain an unfair advantage.

I don't think anyone here thinks ALL business people are honest and ethical. I remember a fact from a study which indicated that 4% of CEO-s, business owners and managers are legit psychopaths (in general population, that number is around 1%). But that doesn't mean we should legalize stealing and force ethical and honest people to donate a large chunk of their money to welfare.

I'm sure your parents spent their youth in that environment and thus have more nostalgic and positive memories. Mine have that too. It's not until you poke their memories more that you realize what an incredibly stupid system it all was. The needs of the market were ignored and there was a constant deficit for many products and oversupply for others. There were lines for everything, you had to wait apprx 10 years to purchase a car, years to get an apartment or furniture, new cars were CHEAPER than used cars.
Of course, most people just went about their lives, but generally, people were much less motivated to work than in capitalism and stealing from the company became the norm.

I like O'Leary because I find myself nodding in approval to nearly everything he has said in interviews and tv shows. He's a beacon of truth in a society which is moving towards the whole 'capitalism/money is evil' thinking.

But I think you and I are actually agreeing with each other, so let's not start a huge discussion over the flaws capitalism and rather work towards our own success in it

 

[DayIFly]

Any system or economic model with people in them is going to have its issues. Create a perfect system, now add people to that mix and observe how a tiny percentage of those people will be looking for loopholes, abusing the system and trying to gain an unfair advantage.
I don't think anyone here thinks ALL business people are honest and ethical. I remember a fact from a study which indicated that 4% of CEO-s, business owners and managers are legit psychopaths (in general population, that number is around 1%). But that doesn't mean we should legalize stealing and force ethical and honest people to donate a large chunk of their money to welfare.
I'm sure your parents spent their youth in that environment and thus have more nostalgic and positive memories. Mine have that too. It's not until you poke their memories more that you realize what an incredibly stupid system it all was. The needs of the market were ignored and there was a constant deficit for many products and oversupply for others. There were lines for everything, you had to wait apprx 10 years to purchase a car, years to get an apartment or furniture, new cars were CHEAPER than used cars.
Of course, most people just went about their lives, but generally, people were much less motivated to work than in capitalism and stealing from the company became the norm.
I like O'Leary because I find myself nodding in approval to nearly everything he has said in interviews and tv shows. He's a beacon of truth in a society which is moving towards the whole 'capitalism/money is evil' thinking.
But I think you and I are actually agreeing with each other, so let's not start a huge discussion over the flaws capitalism and rather work towards our own success in it

Of course we agree with each other in essense. And I certainly don´t want to start a huge discussion about the flaws of capitalism, otherwise I wouldn´t participate in this forum.^^

I simply wanted to point out that it´s not always as simple as it seems. But it is posed as such and I see this mindset a lot lately. At the slightest critisism of any super successful entrepreneur or something similar, the rage starts (not only in regards to this forum). That same rage that people have who don´t like the rich. It seems like dogma, and I don´t like it. We are better than that. Being positive goes both ways. (Maybe it´s just a coincidence that I stumbled upon it so much lately...)

As for the rest, I see it like Felix Dennis stated it. If you are of reasonable intelligence and you live in a western democracy, there is no reason you can´t get well off given enough motivation and application.

 

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