The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

HOT TOPIC Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left to Go?

Accelerate wealth. Build a business that pays freedom. Join more than 70,000 entrepreneurs and register for the Fastlane Entrepreneur forum. Remove ads? Join the INSIDERS.

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 12, 2018
2,396
5,227
1,303
Melbourne, Australia
This thread feels like the grass is always greener on the other side...

Do you really want to move out to eastern europe? when most of the population is poor and doesn't know english outside the main tourist area? Russia? China? really??
Contrary to the US, unless you are born in this countries you will always be an expat, if you migrate into the states are you american and should be treated like that.

BTW if you move out of the US you still own the US govemerment tax lol, the only countries in the world that pose citizen tax regardless of residency are the US and.... Eritrea

I believe Australia also keeps its citizens, under the thumb and you pay tax in Australia even if you don't live or work there.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Sweetexvic

New Contributor
May 20, 2021
5
5
11
Ireland, Estonia, Hungary, Peru, Barbados, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sri Lanka, Nigeria and Kenya
Nigeria? Hhmmm...

I live in a country where many pride themselves with being the biggest economy in Africa. Well, to some extent that is true going by the numbers. The most populated black nation in sub-sahara Africa. No birth control- people giving birth like ants(laughs). Statistics is zero, the government has no data.

The problem of our leaders is that they make decisions based on limited knowledge. In a country where some of its citizens are intelligent, in terms of being IT savvy, yet the leadership sucks!

Now, i am handicapped and handcuffed as it were! I can't move!! I see the Fastlane as a mere dream. Guess what, my so-called president has just banned the use of twitter!!! How can i survive as an Entrepreneur?

I love the points raised in The Millionaire Fastlane , but given the right enabling environment i can rise above the odds. But my location is crippling!

How can i fight for what i believe in? Migration seems to be my only answer.
 

Timmy C

I Will Not Stop!
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jun 12, 2018
2,396
5,227
1,303
Melbourne, Australia
Nigeria? Hhmmm...

I live in a country where many pride themselves with being the biggest economy in Africa. Well, to some extent that is true going by the numbers. The most populated black nation in sub-sahara Africa. No birth control- people giving birth like ants(laughs). Statistics is zero, the government has no data.

The problem of our leaders is that they make decisions based on limited knowledge. In a country where some of its citizens are intelligent, in terms of being IT savvy, yet the leadership sucks!

Now, i am handicapped and handcuffed as it were! I can't move!! I see the Fastlane as a mere dream. Guess what, my so-called president has just banned the use of twitter!!! How can i survive as an Entrepreneur?

I love the points raised in The Millionaire Fastlane , but given the right enabling environment i can rise above the odds. But my location is crippling!

How can i fight for what i believe in? Migration seems to be my only answer.
If you can't migrate, use a VPN to start an interwebs business.

You can do that no?
 

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
Nigeria? Hhmmm...

I live in a country where many pride themselves with being the biggest economy in Africa. Well, to some extent that is true going by the numbers. The most populated black nation in sub-sahara Africa. No birth control- people giving birth like ants(laughs). Statistics is zero, the government has no data.

The problem of our leaders is that they make decisions based on limited knowledge. In a country where some of its citizens are intelligent, in terms of being IT savvy, yet the leadership sucks!

Now, i am handicapped and handcuffed as it were! I can't move!! I see the Fastlane as a mere dream. Guess what, my so-called president has just banned the use of twitter!!! How can i survive as an Entrepreneur?

I love the points raised in The Millionaire Fastlane , but given the right enabling environment i can rise above the odds. But my location is crippling!

How can i fight for what i believe in? Migration seems to be my only answer.
You had internet access to type that post. You can write excellent English. You sound very intelligent. That means you CAN do very well there however I would think it is still just a very difficult place to even survive. Forget about happiness. You could be a manufacturers representative and take orders via email and get paid on a commission basis, maybe even a great salary. All companies want to sell more. If you have the motivation it is very possible.
 

Ubu_roi

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jul 24, 2018
75
256
162
Europe
I thought about creating another country via floating platforms in the sea or by buying/renting large amounts of land in a developing country and starting an enclave of complete free trade where the only rule is "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else." If you think I'm joking I'm not. I know one of the wealthiest families in the world and I also know a royal family In fact they just emailed me and I emailed them back the last hour.

If you think it can't be done, we'll you might be right but you never know. I'm at a point in my life where I would want to do something like this.

I've lived in and visited a number of different countries, both developed, undeveloped and one with elements of prehistoric. Judging if the place is "better" is complex and is quite subjective. One thing that the US has that no other country has is that it's citizens have freedoms and protections that are very deep. Most citizens have no idea just how good they have it, regardless of all the incompetence, waste and abuse government at all levels has. For example, the US has no national language. To me that is like being able to take a deep breath!

As far as entrepreneurs go, they need absolute freedom to bring out the best of them. As I indicated above, to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. That's the world I want to create.

A few years ago some people tried to create a free republic a few miles out of Italy.
Long story short, it was bombed and destroyed. Fascinating story though:

Republic of Rose Island - Wikipedia

In most places you are only free as long as you follow very specific rules (which is to say you are not free, I guess).
 

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
A few years ago some people tried to create a free republic a few miles out of Italy.
Long story short, it was bombed and destroyed. Fascinating story though:

Republic of Rose Island - Wikipedia

In most places you are only free as long as you follow very specific rules (which is to say you are not free, I guess).
That's what I had in mind but on a much larger scale. The lesson is that some people want to control other people. Those with more force win. Democracy is supposed to eliminate that but contrary to our cherish belief it is still about control, majority control. Representatives should not represent the people's wishes, they should only represent the rights of the people. That's why I say the only rule should be "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else".

I think the better way to go about it is to simply change the whole social structure of the world. People want it, They just don't know that it is possible and how to go about it.
 
Last edited:

MTF

Never give up
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 1, 2011
4,689
22,837
4,304
Personally I usually think more about what would have to happen for the issues to be fixed.

You'd need a complete change of the cultural sentiments of the West at the moment. This includes stuff like: (perceived) safety over freedom, crazy woke propaganda, socialism, hating "the rich" etc. Unfortunately history shows that it won't happen until an inevitable collapse when another cycle begins. Eastern Europe still largely remembers these terrible times so they're unlikely to go back to full-blown socialism anytime soon.

On the other hand living in Poland has been amazing. No one bothers me about anything, everyone is super friendly, the place just feels free and happy, and they have great positive values and work ethic.

Poland is sort of in the middle between the West and the East, both geographically and culturally. It's getting more and more westernized and many things are actually way better than in more developed European countries.

Unfortunately, the current government is socialist, ultra-catholic, and populist. Poland had a terrible lockdown last year (you couldn't even go to a forest legally) and while it's better now I'm pretty sure many restrictions will return by the fall regardless of the fact that by the end of summer about 50% of people will be vaxinated.

The biggest issue with Poland right now is that even the opposition has to offer people freebies or they won't have any chances of winning. People in Poland get paid from the state for all kinds of things: having kids, being a single mother, being unemployed, etc. It promotes not working and penalizes those who are productive because they're paying for all the benefits.

There's a huge, communism-like focus on the family, and the bigger, the better. Usually only the poorest, least educated people have big families. These are the ones who have kids because the government will give them benefits for it. The only effect of these pro-family policies is that you promote quantity (have as many kids as possible, doesn't matter if you can afford educating them properly) over quality (have one or two kids and help them become very successful and productive people). There's even been talks of introducing a tax for people who aren't married. And some ultra-conservative crazy people want to send women who miscarry to jail (El Salvador style).

Poland is way better than many Western countries but it's on a similar trajectory, just earlier in the process...

It’s a another topic and another story. But it pretty much will never go away. There’s just too much money to be made and government are too stupid to recognize that stopping a black market is almost impossible.

But it’s really something that is isolated. If you mind your own business you should be just as safe as in your hometown.

Im a Mexican citizen an will probably move to Mexico. I wouldn’t live near a border or anything too touristy. Something central and close though.

But sad though. You have more rights and freedom in these third world countries than in the US. Their economy is doing pretty good as well. Food or real estate are always good businesses.

My issue with Mexico is that it's not particularly safe for foreigners to buy a house in some nice secluded place or otherwise attract any attention to yourself. As far as I know, unless you live in a gated community, you need security to be able to live in a nicer house on your own plot of land. I'm not talking about flashing your money everywhere, just pointing out that you're very likely to become targeted if you choose to enjoy your money a little (except for some places like Mérida).

Or am I wrong?

My wife is Mexican and we spend a lot of time here. Currently in Yucatan Peninsula and it's awesome. Not very touristy, weather is hot all the time (if you like that sort of thing), and it's super safe. Personally we used to go to Playa del Carmen and we won't ever go back. I get hassled literally everytime I go out the door, and I don't feel even remotely safe when the sun sets.

So far my favorite sports are Yucatan Peninsula (Merida and Progreso area), and around Mexico city. Any resort area would be hotel-stay only.

Tourist areas are only safe in the tourist part of that area, the regular parts of those areas to me seem super unsafe compared to just regular mexico

I can sympathize with getting hassled everywhere, had the same experience in the area. Yucatan is definitely much nicer than Quintana Roo as for not feeling like a walking wallet lol.

You need strict racial harmony laws and meritocracy in the mindset of the populace. Without these, how can you continue churning out OK government policies? How can you keep the private sector of entrepreneurs moving forward? How will your businesses continue running?

That is what Singapore has done successfully so far.

Malaysia seems to have everything in place to become the next Singapore. Hopefully sooner or later it will happen as the country has a lot of potential.

Well, I live in Perth in Western Australia, and it feels like the sentiment is starting to turn, which has led to our federal government announcing the 'roadmap out of C0VlD' last week.

The past sentiment has been more of the 'keep us safe, we will put up with less freedom', but is shifting towards more unrest at the Orwellian state of play at the moment where the elected officials have control of your personal freedoms in your own country.

It's surprising that finally there's a shift even in Australia, or at least in Perth.

I would sell a testicle to be a Singapore, or Monaco citizen. Probably the two best places on earth, just by pure numbers. Never going to happen though.

I've been to Monaco and it's oppressively small. You can walk from one end of the country to another in less than an hour. Unless you're a billionaire you won't live there in a nice house but in a small apartment. I felt claustrophobic there and I doubt that any amount of money would make you feel better about being stuck in a country the size of a postage stamp.

Unless you mean be a citizen and live elsewhere.

Singapore is definitely much nicer than Monaco. Way more space, way more nature, and one of the best places in the world for easy travel.

Andorra could be an option for you as well, though getting a citizenship is also very hard.

The Baltics are also intriguing to me, but less likely.

I can't imagine you in the Baltics lol.

The first step is basically to throw away all preconceptions. I was amazed by how detached from reality my conceptions of some countries were. That's what happens when you're plugged into western media all the time. It's one thing to muse about a falling west and other countries on their way to passing the west by, but it's another to see it with your own eyes. The difference in the energy, the life, the human spirit.

That's very true. I had high hopes for some countries that turned out to be disappointing and was positively surprised by some countries I had thought would be okay at best.

I like the sound of Bulgaria, with it's low cost of living and 10% tax rate.

Yeah their flat tax sounds awesome. Can't imagine it happening anywhere in the West currently...

Do you really want to move out to eastern europe? when most of the population is poor and doesn't know english outside the main tourist area? Russia? China? really??

Have you ever been to the region? I remember once having a layover in Chicago and having to transfer to another terminal by bus. Some guys (Americans) were saying that the bus was old and looked like from Eastern Europe. The funny thing is that actually a lot of infrastructure in Eastern and/or Central Europe is new, if not futuristic compared to the US. As a person from Poland, I was shocked countless times by how old and dilapidated everything looked in the US.

Depending on how you define which countries are Eastern European, you get places like:
  • Russia - flat 13% income, some very rich and super modern cities like Moscow, a global power with a huge self-sufficient economy. It's easy to disregard it as a dictatorship but there is a lot of money there and it probably has better long-term prospects than some broke Western countries.
  • Poland (I consider it Central Europe but well) - I can assure you that most of the population isn't poor though they don't have 5 SUVs parked by their McMansions. It's also one of the safest places in the world.
  • the Baltics (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia - consistently ranked as some of the happiest and most prosperous countries in the world.
  • up-and-coming potential local tourist powerhouses like Albania, Montenegro, or Macedonia.
Of course there are poorer countries like Ukraine or Belarus but to say that the entire region is poor and people don't speak English is silly. Even if they don't, if you're planning to move somewhere else, you should learn the local language anyway. You'd expect the same from people moving to the US from non-English speaking countries.

Contrary to the US, unless you are born in this countries you will always be an expat, if you migrate into the states are you american and should be treated like that.

Not really, it depends on the place and also how you look. A black person probably won't be able to integrate easily in Ukraine and a white person won't integrate into most Asian countries. But it also depends on your specific location in each country. Capital cities or any big cities make integrating easier than smaller cities or towns, let alone countryside.

I believe Australia also keeps its citizens, under the thumb and you pay tax in Australia even if you don't live or work there.

Nope. ATO is very aggressive in determining whether you're really no longer a tax resident but you can give up your tax residency and never pay tax in Australia. Americans can't. There are foreign exemptions but you still have to pay if you exceed a specific level of income.

Nigeria? Hhmmm...

I live in a country where many pride themselves with being the biggest economy in Africa. Well, to some extent that is true going by the numbers. The most populated black nation in sub-sahara Africa. No birth control- people giving birth like ants(laughs). Statistics is zero, the government has no data.

The problem of our leaders is that they make decisions based on limited knowledge. In a country where some of its citizens are intelligent, in terms of being IT savvy, yet the leadership sucks!

Now, i am handicapped and handcuffed as it were! I can't move!! I see the Fastlane as a mere dream. Guess what, my so-called president has just banned the use of twitter!!! How can i survive as an Entrepreneur?

I love the points raised in The Millionaire Fastlane , but given the right enabling environment i can rise above the odds. But my location is crippling!

How can i fight for what i believe in? Migration seems to be my only answer.

I'm sorry to hear that. Nigeria seems to have a lot of potential but as in the case with many other similar countries, it can go either way. Currently it seems to be going in the wrong direction then...
 

Kevin88660

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Feb 8, 2019
1,620
1,875
552
Singapore
I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
As long as you are aware what kind of trade off you are making.

If you look at East Asia and South East Asia included, there are much more social and economic freedom than the west. The western laws is a history of special interest and lobbyists writing about what you cannot do, and the list keep getting longer. It doesn't make sense to ban drinking in public for instance, and the typical attitude is that if there isn't an victim then it shouldn't be banned.

Tax is generally much more business friendly. Governments are looking for growth and investment. There is very little “hating the rich culture" unless there are clearly ill-gotten gains from corruption.

The downside on freedom is political freedom or you happened to be the wrong end fighting against the status apparatus on a case/issue. Political power/State Power in the east is very unconstrained compared to the west which has a long tradition of separation and balance of power. Even if you look at the most wealthy and democratic country in East Asia like Japan they have a conviction rate of higher than 99% for criminal trials. So when the public prosecutor decides to charge someone it is almost a 'sure win".
 
Last edited:

Rob Tennant

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Dec 29, 2013
46
96
125
I share most of the concerns as everyone has stated. However, I'm not going anywhere. Never been one to run, I'd rather fight. It seems no matter the state, or the country one flees to, everywhere is on a similar trajectory. Like literally every semi populated place on earth is taking orders from the same a holes.

I often see the sheep comparison, but at least the sheep require a sheep herder. People police each other with all their brainwashed backwards logic BS, its sickening.

I look to mother nature when thinking about things often, and She will often resort to a high number strategy when a large number of individually weak are confronted by a massive predator. I dont know why we dont do this as people..Not saying this has to be violent, but maybe financial or work protest of various sorts? You cant tell me with all the smart people in this forum and this country, we cant come up with something? Why do Billions rollover for hundreds, or thousands?
 

Kevin88660

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Feb 8, 2019
1,620
1,875
552
Singapore
I worry about this as well. But leave to go where?

Before the worst of this pandemic came about, Asians (especially my country) were all about gathering enough degrees or cash to run away to the West (EU, USA, Australia)

While the Westerner folks are all about dropping in on China, Southeast Asia, and even East Europe (for whatever reasons like low cost of living, running away from student debts, seeking entrepreneural opportunities in developing countries, yadda yadda yadda...)

But currently...I've no idea how all this migration will balance out.
At some point, most countries will agree to mass vaccinations and passports.

There's the cycle to think of as well:
1.The cream of the crop runs away to Nice Nation, away from Shit Nation.

2.The lesser, sheep-minded folks left in Shit Nation see the green pastures of Nice Nation.

3.Sheep folks crowd over to Nice Nation in droves.

4. Nice Nation has to toughen immigration laws, or else they get swamped with a migrant crisis and raise the ire of their own people who think their jobs will be stolen. But tighten too much, and some human rights body marches in, claiming its a violation of the right to travel.

5. Shit Nation becomes more shit with less people and less brains
(unless it can pull off a China. It sparked a huge wave of Chinese diaspora that spread around the globe when the Qing Dynasty was trashing the country...but somehow now China's pulling in MNCs and not a few Westerners)


Singapore haha.
But they gotta get their travel bubble up.

Looking back at history, the old leaders of Asian countries who brought them independence used to go overseas to study, gather resources, and then come back to change the nation for the better.

That was servicehood. Now folks just go overseas and don't come back because it's easier to enjoy your own comfort far away. They don't make leaders like long ago now.
Depends on the key motive for the migration. Most business people who move from west to east is to lower the cost of living and perhaps lower tax. If you run an internet business it could be done regardless of your exact location. I think that is largely a valid one.

Most people who move to the west from east now are largely for lifestyle reasons. There are people who hate living in big cities and like the suburbs in Australia. People who like to live away from work and travel on wheels to shop for groceries, as long as the house is affordable. Speaking for people with middle income background, if you cannot find a good job in Singapore, you are far more likely to be jobless in Australia or Canada these days.

I think the edge Singapore has over Malaysia is largely management system/culture. Singapore banks experimented with outsourcing call centers to Malaysia and that didn't work out well. It became chaotic and people were skiving and leaving office before time. The management system/ culture is basically everyone being hold accountable for the kpi, project milestone and work progress. And you don't make it for an extended period of time you leave. And the coordinators above you have to make sure and push everyone to hit their numbers or he or she has to answer to someone above him or her. The system is designed to have tremendous top down pressure to push things forward to hit the numbers.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

GPM

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 25, 2012
1,164
4,613
1,145
Canada
I'd rather fight
To me moving my money somewhere else is fighting. Physically staying to fight seems insane to me, as to me it's literally just some piece of dirt I was born on. Being born somewhere doesn't give me any ties to this area, other than growing up loving mountains and forests. I can get mountains and forests a lot of places, and just come visit these ones anytime I want.
 

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
That's what I had in mind but on a much larger scale. The lesson is that some people want to control other people. Those with more force win. Democracy is supposed to eliminate that but contrary to our cherish belief it is still about control, majority control. Representatives should not represent the people's wishes, they should only represent the rights of the people. That's why I say the only rule should be "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else".

I think the better way to go about it is to simply change the whole social structure of the world. People want it, They just don't know that it is possible and how to go about it.

I share most of the concerns as everyone has stated. However, I'm not going anywhere. Never been one to run, I'd rather fight. It seems no matter the state, or the country one flees to, everywhere is on a similar trajectory. Like literally every semi populated place on earth is taking orders from the same a holes.

I often see the sheep comparison, but at least the sheep require a sheep herder. People police each other with all their brainwashed backwards logic BS, its sickening.

I look to mother nature when thinking about things often, and She will often resort to a high number strategy when a large number of individually weak are confronted by a massive predator. I dont know why we dont do this as people..Not saying this has to be violent, but maybe financial or work protest of various sorts? You cant tell me with all the smart people in this forum and this country, we cant come up with something? Why do Billions rollover for hundreds, or thousands?
Why? People simply don't know. It's that simple. Why do you think the protests of the last year happened in the US? People learned what had happened, or what they thought happened, and were able to communicate with everyone like never before in history. Technology is interfacing with social change and it is amazing and powerful. That's why some governments ban it, more or less. You just need to get the message out - a message that shows the reality of what is happening - waste, incompetence and abuse. Most people do not want that and will take actions to stop it. Voting maybe but more likely through protests which I believe can be peaceful and powerful enough to change the world.
 

MTF

Never give up
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 1, 2011
4,689
22,837
4,304
I share most of the concerns as everyone has stated. However, I'm not going anywhere. Never been one to run, I'd rather fight. It seems no matter the state, or the country one flees to, everywhere is on a similar trajectory. Like literally every semi populated place on earth is taking orders from the same a holes.

You should watch this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_1Fvi37zY
 

Rob Tennant

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Dec 29, 2013
46
96
125
We're going to disagree on this. Its exactly that mentality that prevents the numbers from forming..Why would you run from the greatest country on earth? One that many many people have died protecting. I get it- the path of least resistance, and its not in everyones nature to fight. Its sad to me
 

Rob Tennant

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Dec 29, 2013
46
96
125
Why? People simply don't know. It's that simple. Why do you think the protests of the last year happened in the US? People learned what had happened, or what they thought happened, and were able to communicate with everyone like never before in history. Technology is interfacing with social change and it is amazing and powerful. That's why some governments ban it, more or less. You just need to get the message out - a message that shows the reality of what is happening - waste, incompetence and abuse. Most people do not want that and will take actions to stop it. Voting maybe but more likely through protests which I believe can be peaceful and powerful enough to change the world.
You're re-stating my own premise..I'm well aware of what why and how the protests happened in the past year or so. The point is we need to figure out how to organize, peacefully, to get our freedoms back.
 

Sweetexvic

New Contributor
May 20, 2021
5
5
11
If you can't migrate, use a VPN to start an interwebs business.

You can do that no?
Oh yes i can. But hey... wait a minute.. i am a law abiding citizen. Anyone who is caught will be dealt with. I dont want to spend my years in jail! But thanks for the advice. Well appreciated
 

GPM

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 25, 2012
1,164
4,613
1,145
Canada
Why would you run from the greatest country on earth?
Are you serious? I am not sure that there are any metrics that would call USA the greatest country on Earth. Maybe it once was, but it ranks fairly low on most scales these days.

Happiness, economic and personal freedom, health, opportunity. Not sure it's in the top for any of those
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,734
34,120
4,554
Texas
I've been to Monaco and it's oppressively small. You can walk from one end of the country to another in less than an hour. Unless you're a billionaire you won't live there in a nice house but in a small apartment. I felt claustrophobic there and I doubt that any amount of money would make you feel better about being stuck in a country the size of a postage stamp.

Unless you mean be a citizen and live elsewhere.

Singapore is definitely much nicer than Monaco. Way more space, way more nature, and one of the best places in the world for easy travel.

Andorra could be an option for you as well, though getting a citizenship is also very hard.


I can't imagine you in the Baltics lol.

Oh, I fully agree with everything you've said there. The point is, options. If you want super first world, cutting edge, nice, AND economic freedom, Singapore and Monaco are a model for the world. Examples of how well this stuff works. They are, IMO, great places for someone who is done working and just wants to enjoy their immense capital gains for the rest of their lives.

Estonia in particular just seemed like a good mix of Eurpoean location and travel abilities mixed with some newfound embrace of economic freedom.

I, personally, have a lot of experience with the Latin American third world... And I believe not only are they countries that are embracing economic freedom, but they are countries that need things. Opportunity abounds for the rugged individualist in those countries. So from a freedom, but also still building standpoint, I think that is the ticket for me, if I'm going to immigrate. Go back in time and join their industrial revolution.

Yes, you have to take the good with the bad. They are embracing these policies because they desperately need to, not because they want to. The cost of living is a lot cheaper there, and I can get a beautiful home on some acreage, but, there is more poverty and less "super first worldy" stuff to do there.

Weighing the big picture. I would rather be closer, geographically, to the states for business. I would rather speak Spanish than Estonian, Chinese or French. I would also rather impact the local economy to a greater extent.

The thing we are most weighing is this... There is ZERO question that USVI and PR are the best places in the world for a US citizen to live. Significantly more economic freedom, lower taxes, need things that the rest of the US already has, ETC... But do we want to pick that horse in this race? The easiest and best choice NOW isn't always the best choice long term. It on one hand feels like a cop out or a half measure... On the other hand, renouncing makes doing business as an American a thing of my past and feels a little like starting over.
 
Last edited:

MTF

Never give up
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 1, 2011
4,689
22,837
4,304
Why would you run from the greatest country on earth?

Because it's no longer the greatest country on Earth? Ask @Kak for his opinion LOL.

I know that plenty of Americans still believe that but the world has largely moved on and there are many great countries, some arguably way better than the US in many aspects.

You have more freedom to do business in dozens of countries.

You have better quality of food in Europe, just to give one example.

You have more peace and personal security in countless countries where homeless people, gangbangers, and drug addicts aren't the norm in big cities and where crazy people don't go shooting others at random places.

You have better healthcare and a much healthier population in dozens of countries, too.

I'm not saying it to attack the US. I'm just saying it to demonstrate that the point of this thread is that the US is no longer the greatest place to be for many people (perhaps it still is for you and that's fine).

In my childhood, people dreamed of immigrating to the US (I'm not from there). These days, nobody says it anymore. It's no longer that incredible place full of opportunities and a better lifestyle. Often, people seek greener pastures everywhere but in the US.
 

Rob Tennant

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Dec 29, 2013
46
96
125
Are you serious? I am not sure that there are any metrics that would call USA the greatest country on Earth. Maybe it once was, but it ranks fairly low on most scales these days.

Happiness, economic and personal freedom, health, opportunity. Not sure it's in the top for any of those
Yea, I'm serious. So I guess we should just all run away? And eventually deal with a similar fate wherever you go? I'm not sure this is something that can be outrun, longterm. Like I said, I share the same concerns as most about this country. Whats going on here sickens me. It just doesnt feel right to me to promote a run away mentality. If it sucks here so bad, why do most try to come here?

You know what, my question of why dont we pull together as a people was quickly answer on this forum today.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
Because it's no longer the greatest country on Earth? Ask @Kak for his opinion LOL.

I know that plenty of Americans still believe that but the world has largely moved on and there are many great countries, some arguably way better than the US in many aspects.

You have more freedom to do business in dozens of countries.

You have better quality of food in Europe, just to give one example.

You have more peace and personal security in countless countries where homeless people, gangbangers, and drug addicts aren't the norm in big cities and where crazy people don't go shooting others at random places.

You have better healthcare and a much healthier population in dozens of countries, too.

I'm not saying it to attack the US. I'm just saying it to demonstrate that the point of this thread is that the US is no longer the greatest place to be for many people (perhaps it still is for you and that's fine).

In my childhood, people dreamed of immigrating to the US (I'm not from there). These days, nobody says it anymore. It's no longer that incredible place full of opportunities and a better lifestyle. Often, people seek greener pastures everywhere

The US is the greatest country by certain metrics. When push comes to shove, even in polite Europe, it is infinitely better to be in the US . As long as there is no shoving then the US is definitely not the greatest country. But even much of that is subjective.
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,734
34,120
4,554
Texas
Yea, I'm serious. So I guess we should just all run away? And eventually deal with a similar fate wherever you go? I'm not sure this is something that can be outrun, longterm. Like I said, I share the same concerns as most about this country. Whats going on here sickens me. It just doesnt feel right to me to promote a run away mentality. If it sucks here so bad, why do most try to come here?

You know what, my question of why dont we pull together as a people was quickly answer on this forum today.


You're re-stating my own premise..I'm well aware of what why and how the protests happened in the past year or so. The point is we need to figure out how to organize, peacefully, to get our freedoms back.

I used to be there man and I can fully sympathize.

Believe it or not, I was the most patriotic guy I knew. I LOVED America and the principles it used to stand for. Key phrase, used to.

Today? I feel betrayed by the place I used to love. We are on a seriously self destructive path and voting harder isn’t going to fix it. Now I’m starting to see this place for what it is… Mediocrity. Expensive mediocrity, propped up by propaganda that sells us a bill of goods that we no longer have.

Think about the propaganda machine in China. The Chinese are all programmed to believe that China is the best country in earth. Russia. Hell, probably even Canada. America does the exact same thing, perhaps even more so. The programming wore off of me.

My life, and the prosperity of my family and future generations is worth more to me than the country I was born in. Physically fighting people that literally don’t want a better life, or even slogging through a life of government imposed hardship to hopefully “save America” isn’t my idea of leaving a legacy.

When I do leave, I will wish you the absolute best in your fight, but my fight is business and doing things that directly impact my family’s future.

I recently decided to look at my Ancestory.com family tree. On my mom’s side they came over from Italy in the late 1800s. On my dad’s side from Ireland in the mid 1800s. Can you imagine the sacrifices they made? They would likely never see family they left behind ever again. They literally sacrificed everything for a better life in America. They would be so pissed off if they saw what America has become.

I don’t have to sacrifice 10% of they did for the future of my family.

Ask yourself what America stands for now, because we don’t have a constitution, a bill of rights, or founding principles anymore. They may be memorialized, but they certainly aren’t upheld.

To answer your question about why the many are controlled by the few… It is because you are a minority. Someone that wants to build. The majority wants to take, not make. The USA has government problem because it has a people problem. With this said, freedoms won’t come back.
 
Last edited:

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
You're re-stating my own premise..I'm well aware of what why and how the protests happened in the past year or so. The point is we need to figure out how to organize, peacefully, to get our freedoms back.
You need to "get the word out". If what you saying is real, like how citizens have and are being abused, send stories to the local, regional, national and international news media. Post stories and videos on social media. Make sure it's absolutely true and people will take notice. Organize protests. Build momentum and watch it spread like wild fire.
 

Black_Dragon43

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Apr 28, 2017
749
2,165
553
Eastern Europe
When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?
I have a cousin who sold his biz, and moved to Cyprus. Small taxes, chill place, but not necessarily for "go-getters".
 

Rob Tennant

Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Dec 29, 2013
46
96
125
I used to be there man and I can fully sympathize.

Believe it or not, I was the most patriotic guy I knew. I LOVED America and the principles it used to stand for. Key phrase, used to.

Today? I feel betrayed by the place I used to love. We are on a seriously self destructive path and voting harder isn’t going to fix it. Now I’m starting to see this place for what it is… Mediocrity. Expensive mediocrity, propped up by propaganda that sells us a bill of goods that we no longer have.

Think about the propaganda machine in China. The Chinese are all programmed to believe that China is the best country in earth. Russia. Hell, probably even Canada. America does the exact same thing, perhaps even more so. The programming wore off of me.

My life, and the prosperity of my family and future generations is worth more to me than the country I was born in, physically fighting people that literally don’t want a better life, or even slogging through a life of government imposed hardship to hopefully “save America” isn’t my idea of leaving a legacy.

I recently decided to look at my Ancestory.com family tree. On my mom’s side they came over from Italy in the late 1800s. On my dad’s side from Ireland in the mid 1800s. Can you imagine the sacrifices they made? They would likely never see family they left behind ever again. They literally sacrificed everything for a better life in America. They would be so pissed off if they saw what America has become.

I don’t have to sacrifice 10% of they did for the future of my family.

Ask yourself what America stands for now, because we don’t have a constitution, a bill of rights, or founding principles anymore. They may be memorialized, but they certainly aren’t upheld.

To answer your question about why the many are controlled by the few… It is because you are a minority. Someone that wants to build. The majority wants to take, not make. The USA has government problem because it has a people problem. With this said, freedoms won’t come back.
I totally get what you're saying and I share your feeling of betrayal. Obviously, this is somewhat of an emotional issue with me for a lot of reasons. To be clear, I agree that there are better places around the globe for this or for that. It just sickens me to my core to think about what all of our forefathers had to endure to come here, to fight in this country's wars, etc. They would all turn over in their graves if they could see this place now.

At the risk of falling prey to sunk cost fallacy, part of me still believes we can fight this, or at least seriously attempt to-as naive as that may seem. I greatly respect all of you here and your opinions.
 

Kak

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,734
34,120
4,554
Texas
I totally get what you're saying and I share your feeling of betrayal. Obviously, this is somewhat of an emotional issue with me for a lot of reasons. To be clear, I agree that there are better places around the globe for this or for that. It just sickens me to my core to think about what all of our forefathers had to endure to come here, to fight in this country's wars, etc. They would all turn over in their graves if they could see this place now.

At the risk of falling prey to sunk cost fallacy, part of me still believes we can fight this, or at least seriously attempt to-as naive as that may seem. I greatly respect all of you here and your opinions.

Absolutely!

It is a deeply personal decision. Weighing what’s most important to you….

For me it looks like this:

Fighting the good fight and trying to make sure my kids and grandkids have an America I can recognize, and the expenses to our prosperity that costs.
-or-
Making America’s well-being irrelevant to my family’s future at a different cost.

Option two is much deeper in my sphere of influence than option one.
 

deliux

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
May 21, 2021
49
32
45
I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.
May I ask why you mentioned Estonia but not Lithuania?

To be serious today I was searching information about Georgia as well! I want to change environment, but do not go crazy on budget.
 

Sweetexvic

New Contributor
May 20, 2021
5
5
11
You had internet access to type that post. You can write excellent English. You sound very intelligent. That means you CAN do very well there however I would think it is still just a very difficult place to even survive. Forget about happiness. You could be a manufacturers representative and take orders via email and get paid on a commission basis, maybe even a great salary. All companies want to sell more. If you have the motivation it is very possible.
Thanks. I am a distributor for a major bio tech company based in Asia that produces organic products. I am hoping to franchise some of this products very soon. You can as well partner with this company that produces over 4,500 products. I do not mean to advertise here but i appreciate your advice. Once again thanks!
 

robertwills

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Sep 9, 2020
383
246
93
Atlanta, GA
May I ask why you mentioned Estonia but not Lithuania?

To be serious today I was searching information about Georgia as well! I want to change environment, but do not go crazy on budget.
Some countries offer US and other citizens long periods of staying without getting a visa or residency, etc. and all the hassle that goes with that. The Schengen countries (Europe) let you stay 90 days in 180 days in the region. I think Albania gives 365 days. Plus the cost of housing and food can be so low comparatively that even a 1 person internet only based business earning say $20K per year net can live like a king. There may be downsides to seriously consider compared to the highly developed countries so make sure to do good research before traveling. Things like quality of medical care, laws, legal system, business and personal culture, etc. On the other hand I left with just a suitcase and had no idea where I would end up or what I would do to earn a living. It worked out well for me but it was a heck of a risk.
 

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE NEW: The Best School for Going Fastlane (Now open for summer enrollment)
With 300+ students, the method and/or main sources of traffic don't saturate? Seems web design...
MARKETPLACE Fox Web School "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2021
Hi - I sent out some emails with the updates but I'll PM you now also, thanks. The issue is...
MARKETPLACE Not sure how to start? This free book will teach you how to build a successful web design business
Hi Fox. Starting the book and got through the introduction. Had a conversation with Andy Black...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Chris is super sharp and is aware of many facets of entrepreneurship and can help get your...

Learn Fastlane Business Skills & Get Profitable Within 30 Days...

Get Started Now

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom