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Does work ethic really matter?

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biophase

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Completely agree. That was a big point I was tryin to make. Thus why X man and Z woman both resulted in "still can't retire". It wasn't that they didn't work hard it was that they didn't allocate the efforts of their work correctly to reach their goal. Retirement.

Of course Y did. And of course he had some kind of kind of work ethic.
Never even implied he didn't have to do anything.

But the point in contrast to X & Z, he didn't work hard. At all. In contrast. Furthermore he spent 1/3 of the time as X & Z to get to his retirement goal. In both how many hours per day he worked and when he eventually achieved his goal.

X busted his back, figuratively for decades and ontop of that had a family to be responsible of.
Z got up at 4AM, cold called, prospected, work work worked all the way till nearly midnight for decades.

Y worked 3 hours a day from his desk for less than 1 decade.

That was the point. He worked effectively, and smart. Not 'hard'. Atleast not in the realm of X/Z.

And using what Andy said, working 'hard' wasn't required for Y as long as he had good work ethic.

Exactly! Completely agree.

Even though I feel a level of preparedness could have saved you that ordeal in that scenario, yes. You need to know how to work hard to be ready for when the universe throws you a curve ball.

Great points WJK.
" In these cases, each needs to learn how to take care of their money that they have made in order to transition to the next step. "

Pretty much sums up their plight in one sentence.

Well I didn't spend too much detail on what they did with their money. But I was thinking that X, Y, & Z all wanted to reach an 'escape' number to retire. X & Z had to keep working not necessarily because they were bad with money. Although surely has to be some errors in there. But moreso they thought as long as they worked hard and keep working "one day I'll retire rich!".

That's the whole point. Was basically just trying to relate X & Z to the average American's mentality. Especially for X. Now that you bring up money management; it's going to be very hard even as an iron worker.

You said Iron Worker's make good money. ANd that's true... if X was single.
This show's salaries for iron workers. The top 20% make 90Kish at the most.

After taxes you're looking at 70Kish. No way X is going to retire with millions needed to retire him and have money in the bank for his 4 kids and wife; bringing in 70K after taxes. Considering I'd argue atleast 70% of that goes into the family and living expenses.

Edit: I don't know investment math so had to re-run all my numbers.

So he's saving 21K a year. Just working hard and saving 21K a year...
However in the trades you don't hit your peak till atleast 5-9 years in. If not 10+ but lets say 9. He started at 25, started making 90K at 34... He's 64 now. 30 years.

End Balance$2,590,263.23
Starting Amount $21,000.00
Total Contributions $630,000.00
Total Interest$1,939,263.23
@ 8% returns

So if all that actually follows out, it is possible he can retire with 2.5M at 64.
Which is 518,000 per person in the family.

So if he planned things well and if the stock market and all that actually stayed static all those years sure.
But that would require additional planning than just work work work. And setting aside money, and even then it took him 3 decades, and horrible health. Contrast that to Y or even Z.

Congralutions X, you're a millionaire! Now you can actually spend the last 5 years of your life (on average) with your now nearly grown adult offspring.

That's the long description to the point I'm trying to make with this thread.
You can have all the work journals, back busting hours invested and even be in a good paying field. But that is not enough or even required to be successful financially if freedom is the goal.

The same can apply to Z even if she was making 100,000 a year (75K after taxes)

Yes you can argue X should not have had kids yet then (especially 4!) if his finances weren't together. But that's a whoooole 'nother topic.
I think what you’re really trying to say is that if it doesn’t matter if all 3 work hard. What matters is if one person made $15/hr and another $50/hr and the third $500/hr.

And on top of that, it matters how they managed their money.

After 10 years it’s certainly possible that the person that made $50 an hour has retired while the one making $500 an hour is still a slave to his job or business.

And in all cases they will be way ahead of the person that was lazy and didn’t work at all.
 

DavidL41

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Completely agree. That was a big point I was tryin to make. Thus why X man and Z woman both resulted in "still can't retire". It wasn't that they didn't work hard it was that they didn't allocate the efforts of their work correctly to reach their goal. Retirement.

Of course Y did. And of course he had some kind of kind of work ethic.
Never even implied he didn't have to do anything.

But the point in contrast to X & Z, he didn't work hard. At all. In contrast. Furthermore he spent 1/3 of the time as X & Z to get to his retirement goal. In both how many hours per day he worked and when he eventually achieved his goal.

X busted his back, figuratively for decades and ontop of that had a family to be responsible of.
Z got up at 4AM, cold called, prospected, work work worked all the way till nearly midnight for decades.

Y worked 3 hours a day from his desk for less than 1 decade.

That was the point. He worked effectively, and smart. Not 'hard'. Atleast not in the realm of X/Z.

And using what Andy said, working 'hard' wasn't required for Y as long as he had good work ethic.

Exactly! Completely agree.

Even though I feel a level of preparedness could have saved you that ordeal in that scenario, yes. You need to know how to work hard to be ready for when the universe throws you a curve ball.

Great points WJK.
" In these cases, each needs to learn how to take care of their money that they have made in order to transition to the next step. "

Pretty much sums up their plight in one sentence.

Well I didn't spend too much detail on what they did with their money. But I was thinking that X, Y, & Z all wanted to reach an 'escape' number to retire. X & Z had to keep working not necessarily because they were bad with money. Although surely has to be some errors in there. But moreso they thought as long as they worked hard and keep working "one day I'll retire rich!".

That's the whole point. Was basically just trying to relate X & Z to the average American's mentality. Especially for X. Now that you bring up money management; it's going to be very hard even as an iron worker.

You said Iron Worker's make good money. ANd that's true... if X was single.
This show's salaries for iron workers. The top 20% make 90Kish at the most.

After taxes you're looking at 70Kish. No way X is going to retire with millions needed to retire him and have money in the bank for his 4 kids and wife; bringing in 70K after taxes. Considering I'd argue atleast 70% of that goes into the family and living expenses.

Edit: I don't know investment math so had to re-run all my numbers.

So he's saving 21K a year. Just working hard and saving 21K a year...
However in the trades you don't hit your peak till atleast 5-9 years in. If not 10+ but lets say 9. He started at 25, started making 90K at 34... He's 64 now. 30 years.

End Balance$2,590,263.23
Starting Amount $21,000.00
Total Contributions $630,000.00
Total Interest$1,939,263.23
@ 8% returns

So if all that actually follows out, it is possible he can retire with 2.5M at 64.
Which is 518,000 per person in the family.

So if he planned things well and if the stock market and all that actually stayed static all those years sure.
But that would require additional planning than just work work work. And setting aside money, and even then it took him 3 decades, and horrible health. Contrast that to Y or even Z.

Congralutions X, you're a millionaire! Now you can actually spend the last 5 years of your life (on average) with your now nearly grown adult offspring.

That's the long description to the point I'm trying to make with this thread.
You can have all the work journals, back busting hours invested and even be in a good paying field. But that is not enough or even required to be successful financially if freedom is the goal.

The same can apply to Z even if she was making 100,000 a year (75K after taxes)

Yes you can argue X should not have had kids yet then (especially 4!) if his finances weren't together. But that's a whoooole 'nother topic.
X could have invested in real estate very early on. If the wife is working then they are doing very well. If not they are still doing well. Tbh, it's a very very good outcome. It's just the scenic route and not the top of the heap.

Entrepreneurship allows for heavy return on investments(profits raise very high). Those personal profits from those investments can be reinvested, and compounded over and over(your money in your bank can make money like in realestate, franchises, or bootstrapping or buying more businesses). There are multiple revenue streams. Business(es) makes you money. Real estate makes you money. And so on.

Those with the capability/expertise to capitalize on ideal situations/opportunity can keep snowballing exponentially. If a person can not be capable enough to be above average business owner then they of course they have to work for an employer and try a bunch of different bootstrap businesses till they luckily hit on something. Continually riding those tiny waves(a below average entrepreneur can even succeed there) A job is very secure, and good for building up savings. I believe the goal is to either boot strap business(es), or to build up a nest nest egg from their regular job to reinvest in real estate, reliable franchises/reliable small business, buy or bootstrap small business, and so on. At the end of the day get to a desirable outcome.
 
Last edited:

WJK

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Completely agree. That was a big point I was tryin to make. Thus why X man and Z woman both resulted in "still can't retire". It wasn't that they didn't work hard it was that they didn't allocate the efforts of their work correctly to reach their goal. Retirement.

Of course Y did. And of course he had some kind of kind of work ethic.
Never even implied he didn't have to do anything.

But the point in contrast to X & Z, he didn't work hard. At all. In contrast. Furthermore he spent 1/3 of the time as X & Z to get to his retirement goal. In both how many hours per day he worked and when he eventually achieved his goal.

X busted his back, figuratively for decades and ontop of that had a family to be responsible of.
Z got up at 4AM, cold called, prospected, work work worked all the way till nearly midnight for decades.

Y worked 3 hours a day from his desk for less than 1 decade.

That was the point. He worked effectively, and smart. Not 'hard'. Atleast not in the realm of X/Z.

And using what Andy said, working 'hard' wasn't required for Y as long as he had good work ethic.

Exactly! Completely agree.

Even though I feel a level of preparedness could have saved you that ordeal in that scenario, yes. You need to know how to work hard to be ready for when the universe throws you a curve ball.

Great points WJK.
" In these cases, each needs to learn how to take care of their money that they have made in order to transition to the next step. "

Pretty much sums up their plight in one sentence.

Well I didn't spend too much detail on what they did with their money. But I was thinking that X, Y, & Z all wanted to reach an 'escape' number to retire. X & Z had to keep working not necessarily because they were bad with money. Although surely has to be some errors in there. But moreso they thought as long as they worked hard and keep working "one day I'll retire rich!".

That's the whole point. Was basically just trying to relate X & Z to the average American's mentality. Especially for X. Now that you bring up money management; it's going to be very hard even as an iron worker.

You said Iron Worker's make good money. ANd that's true... if X was single.
This show's salaries for iron workers. The top 20% make 90Kish at the most.

After taxes you're looking at 70Kish. No way X is going to retire with millions needed to retire him and have money in the bank for his 4 kids and wife; bringing in 70K after taxes. Considering I'd argue atleast 70% of that goes into the family and living expenses.

Edit: I don't know investment math so had to re-run all my numbers.

So he's saving 21K a year. Just working hard and saving 21K a year...
However in the trades you don't hit your peak till atleast 5-9 years in. If not 10+ but lets say 9. He started at 25, started making 90K at 34... He's 64 now. 30 years.

End Balance$2,590,263.23
Starting Amount $21,000.00
Total Contributions $630,000.00
Total Interest$1,939,263.23
@ 8% returns

So if all that actually follows out, it is possible he can retire with 2.5M at 64.
Which is 518,000 per person in the family.

So if he planned things well and if the stock market and all that actually stayed static all those years sure.
But that would require additional planning than just work work work. And setting aside money, and even then it took him 3 decades, and horrible health. Contrast that to Y or even Z.

Congralutions X, you're a millionaire! Now you can actually spend the last 5 years of your life (on average) with your now nearly grown adult offspring.

That's the long description to the point I'm trying to make with this thread.
You can have all the work journals, back busting hours invested and even be in a good paying field. But that is not enough or even required to be successful financially if freedom is the goal.

The same can apply to Z even if she was making 100,000 a year (75K after taxes)

Yes you can argue X should not have had kids yet then (especially 4!) if his finances weren't together. But that's a whoooole 'nother topic.
You missed my point. The answer to this life choice is not binary. I'm NOT saying that he the iron worker (or the business woman) should totally rely on savings to make his next egg. That is not a stand-alone plan that works. I said that he should use that income to take the next step. He could have used his expertise to start a side business. He could have invested in real estate. He could have become a iron contractor or component supplier. He could have invented a new tool or technique to work in the iron business.

Having a family is a factor -- not a barrier. I know. I have raised two families over the years. Plus I supported my mom and physically cared for her for the last 10 years of her life.
 
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DavidL41

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You missed my point. The answer to this life choice is not binary. I'm saying that he the iron worker (or the business woman) should totally rely on savings to make his next egg. That is not a stand-alone plan that works. I said that he should use that income to take the next step. He could have used his expertise to start a side business. He could have invested in real estate. He could have become a iron contractor or component supplier. He could have invented a new tool or technique to work in the iron business.

Having a family is a factor -- not a barrier. I know. I have raised two families over the years. Plus I supported my mom and physically cared for her for the last 10 years of her life.
If the goal is to do it as safe as possible they both can do a side job during the weekend and after work, plus heavily save, and safely invest their money better. The second option is to bootstrap a side business and make the leap to the business full time after it is on the path to out pace their job's salary. In either case they want to safely invest personal income into assets once they have a nest egg.

The fast lane is to take superior expertise than average or top competitors(effectiveness, efficiency, consistency), and outcompete/dominate the competition to capture opportunity or customers for superior profit and growth. And of course invest personal income optimally.
 

WJK

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If the goal is to do it as safe as possible they both can do a side job during the weekend and after work, plus heavily save, and safely invest their money better. The second option is to bootstrap a side business and make the leap to the business full time after it is on the path to out pace their job's salary. In either case they want to safely invest personal income into assets once they have a nest egg.

The fast lane is to take superior expertise than average or top competitors(effectiveness, efficiency, consistency), and outcompete/dominate the competition to capture opportunity or customers for superior profit and growth. And of course invest personal income optimally.
And at times, it takes a related group of business interests to win that race. I have a core business and then related businesses that create what I call my "dribble" incomes. They support the core business while creating smaller income streams -- that I combine with the cash flow from my core business. (An example of this concept is my little self-service Laundromat, which provides services my tenants for my residential rental business.)

Back to the idea of work ethics -- I work hard. I have daily chores to keep everything going. Some days run very long. BUT, I make it look easy. Tenants have told me that all I do is sit around and collect my rents. They only see what I want them to see.
 

DavidL41

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And at times, it takes a related group of business interests to win that race. I have a core business and then related businesses that create what I call my "dribble" incomes. They support the core business while creating smaller income streams -- that I combine with the cash flow from my core business. (An example of this concept is my little self-service Laundromat, which provides services my tenants for my residential rental business.)

Back to the idea of work ethics -- I work hard. I have daily chores to keep everything going. Some days run very long. BUT, I make it look easy. Tenants have told me that all I do is sit around and collect my rents. They only see what I want them to see.
Yes, I think achieving as much roi out of each asset/business is key. If it's a business run it efficient, effective, consistent, strategically, all in all run it optimally to achieve the most roi.

The trick of it seems to be figure out what average ability is. Go above average. Then top 10%. Top 1% and so on. The more capable the entrepreneur is over the competition the more likely a business will succeed/cashflow. Bootstrapping over a series of ventures will eventually land one that 'pays out'. Then repeat over and over. If a person has the money they can go to already cash flowing businesses/franchises and real estate that always or almost always achieves a steady roi.
 

thechosen1

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Yes, work ethic absolutely matters.

It’s a simple equation:

(How hard you work) * (How smart you work) = Results

If either of those are zero, you will have zero results.

Ive learned from @MJ DeMarco how to use these mathematical analogies.

From a science standpoint, think about energy expenditure versus work done...

You can push very hard on a wall, using all of your energy, and not move it.

Or you can stand next to it and do nothing.

Either way, the wall doesn’t move.

But come back with a sledgehammer, or better yet, a bulldozer, and you’ll knock through many walls quite quickly...
 

WJK

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Yes, I think achieving as much roi out of each asset/business is key. If it's a business run it efficient, effective, consistent, strategically, all in all run it optimally to achieve the most roi.

The trick of it seems to be figure out what average ability is. Go above average. Then top 10%. Top 1% and so on. The more capable the entrepreneur is over the competition the more likely a business will succeed/cashflow. Bootstrapping over a series of ventures will eventually land one that 'pays out'. Then repeat over and over. If a person has the money they can go to already cash flowing businesses/franchises and real estate that always or almost always achieves a steady roi.
I know that my success in my businesses is based upon my hard work, reputation, and personality.

I had a young lady tell me yesterday that she was unexpectedly moving out of one of my mobile homes today. I have an appointment tomorrow at 2 PM to rent it. I know the new renters. They were on my waiting list. Yes, we'll take a couple days to clean it up. But, it will be a quick turn-around. They really need housing due to a non-functioning septic system where they are living right now. The wife cried when I told her I have unit for her. People in our community know that we do the necessary repairs in a timely manner. And I have the only group of affordable housing in our area.

But, years ago, when I took over the mobile home park, it was trashed. My parents had sold it a couple years before that and they had unfortunately carried the paper. The buyer did hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages. Then he gave it back to my elderly parents, who didn't know what to do. They didn't have the resources to do the repairs. It was losing piles of money every month. I had every bad guy in the area living here. I had to evict them one after another. The property's reputation was horrible. I couldn't rent any of the mobile homes -- even on a good day. And I was living in Los Angeles, 6,000 miles away.

The turn around took lots of cash, work (sweat equity), and time. (Mom didn't live long enough to see the property put back together, but Dad did.) It's grown into a community within our larger community. Many days I feel like I have built something bigger than myself. But I also know that my daily work ethics are necessary for the success to carry on...
 

daivey

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Completely agree. That was a big point I was tryin to make. Thus why X man and Z woman both resulted in "still can't retire". It wasn't that they didn't work hard it was that they didn't allocate the efforts of their work correctly to reach their goal. Retirement.

Of course Y did. And of course he had some kind of kind of work ethic.
Never even implied he didn't have to do anything.

But the point in contrast to X & Z, he didn't work hard. At all. In contrast. Furthermore he spent 1/3 of the time as X & Z to get to his retirement goal. In both how many hours per day he worked and when he eventually achieved his goal.

X busted his back, figuratively for decades and ontop of that had a family to be responsible of.
Z got up at 4AM, cold called, prospected, work work worked all the way till nearly midnight for decades.

Y worked 3 hours a day from his desk for less than 1 decade.

That was the point. He worked effectively, and smart. Not 'hard'. Atleast not in the realm of X/Z.

And using what Andy said, working 'hard' wasn't required for Y as long as he had good work ethic.

Exactly! Completely agree.

Even though I feel a level of preparedness could have saved you that ordeal in that scenario, yes. You need to know how to work hard to be ready for when the universe throws you a curve ball.

Great points WJK.
" In these cases, each needs to learn how to take care of their money that they have made in order to transition to the next step. "

Pretty much sums up their plight in one sentence.

Well I didn't spend too much detail on what they did with their money. But I was thinking that X, Y, & Z all wanted to reach an 'escape' number to retire. X & Z had to keep working not necessarily because they were bad with money. Although surely has to be some errors in there. But moreso they thought as long as they worked hard and keep working "one day I'll retire rich!".

That's the whole point. Was basically just trying to relate X & Z to the average American's mentality. Especially for X. Now that you bring up money management; it's going to be very hard even as an iron worker.

You said Iron Worker's make good money. ANd that's true... if X was single.
This show's salaries for iron workers. The top 20% make 90Kish at the most.

After taxes you're looking at 70Kish. No way X is going to retire with millions needed to retire him and have money in the bank for his 4 kids and wife; bringing in 70K after taxes. Considering I'd argue atleast 70% of that goes into the family and living expenses.

Edit: I don't know investment math so had to re-run all my numbers.

So he's saving 21K a year. Just working hard and saving 21K a year...
However in the trades you don't hit your peak till atleast 5-9 years in. If not 10+ but lets say 9. He started at 25, started making 90K at 34... He's 64 now. 30 years.

End Balance$2,590,263.23
Starting Amount $21,000.00
Total Contributions $630,000.00
Total Interest$1,939,263.23
@ 8% returns

So if all that actually follows out, it is possible he can retire with 2.5M at 64.
Which is 518,000 per person in the family.

So if he planned things well and if the stock market and all that actually stayed static all those years sure.
But that would require additional planning than just work work work. And setting aside money, and even then it took him 3 decades, and horrible health. Contrast that to Y or even Z.

Congralutions X, you're a millionaire! Now you can actually spend the last 5 years of your life (on average) with your now nearly grown adult offspring.

That's the long description to the point I'm trying to make with this thread.
You can have all the work journals, back busting hours invested and even be in a good paying field. But that is not enough or even required to be successful financially if freedom is the goal.

The same can apply to Z even if she was making 100,000 a year (75K after taxes)

Yes you can argue X should not have had kids yet then (especially 4!) if his finances weren't together. But that's a whoooole 'nother topic.

i think your story here is missing a lot of details.
your story, while cute, in trying to prove your point, missed a lot of details:

1) most iron workers, welders, etc, (tradespeople) depending where they live, are in unions and have pensions.

So your Iron Worker as you say, would likely be making $100,000+, likely more with over time, per year in USA/Canada and most of the developed world. Trades people - specially welders, good ones, are in high demand.
Their pensions, depending on the organization can range from $30,000 per year to as high as $65,000 per year, with medical benefits, as well as spousal component if they die early. Typically the spousal roll over will be like 65% of the pension.


2) The story of your entrepreneur... Great... So you claim that after starting all these businesses, said person isn't able to SELL any of the business to retire on?

3) Your stacked story about becoming YouTube:
seems like your'e pushing your idea here that Youtube is the way... What happens when YouTube changes it's algorithm and wipes away your ad revenue? What happens when a NEW fad comes along and YouTuber hasn't adapted to change?

IF you're going to make these comparisons, at least do it right.
 

daivey

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I know, it sounds ridiculous. But this is the Fastlane forums. Home of the Unscripted so I probably wouldn't post this anywhere else.

I pose this as a question more than a declaration.

I present three scenarios.

X: A father of four. He gets up, takes care of his family. Pays all the bills on time and hasn't been late or missed a day of work his entire life. Lifting, scrubbing, bending, he's an iron worker, building the skyscrapes in the Dubai skyline. Even when he was sick, he went to the bathroom, threw up and went back to work!!! His coworkers call him THE MACHINE!!! But now he's 64 years old and won't retire. He will have to work atleast 5 more years till his youngest turns 18. And even then he may need social security assistance. Oh and nearly every bone in his body needs to be replaced and he can't stand straight anymore from all the iron working.

Z: She has read 10,000 self help books. Took and paid for 75 courses. Started 44 different online businesses. She's a hustler! She works on her business from 4AM(when she gets up) to 11PM everyday! She cold calls, prospects, executes, doesn't action fake. And this has been her life for 21 years. Now she is 64 years old and still hasn't found a way to retire. She's made plenty money. But she still has to keep working.

I'm sure you guys the point. I don't question if working hard is important. My question is, is it really that important to be truly financially independent, especially fastlane? Or dare I say a "hard" work ethic is even required at all?

Y: He read all MJ's book. Enrolled in Fox's Web school right after. After 3 years of working 3 hours a day from his PC while building his youtube channel he then makes 10K a month from what he learned from Fox, MJ's books and his YT channel. He then establishes a productocracy 5 years later on his 5th business and met his escape number. He retires at 27.

Is working hard truly required to be successful in the 2020s?

Here's your make-belief story, but better.

x) A father of four. Starter in the trades at 19, after finishing high school. Joined the union, make base salary of $35,000 per year, however, with overtime was pulling in $45,000 per year. By 24 he was a certified welder. He was making $75,000, with over time earning $95,000 per year. By 30 years old, he was making $90,000 per year, but with over time, earning $120,000 per year.
Because he is hands on, he bought an investment property at 25, which he rented out, while living with his parents.
When he turned 30, he got married, bought a house with his wife. Today at 60, he has 4 kids, 3 rental properties. A, $50,000 per year pension that he can start today if he wants - and because his trade is in high demand, he can start his pension and STILL EARN income.
His rentals including his principal residence are worth $2million and all paid off. His rentals generate $45,000 of revenue x 3.
As he was an employee all these years, he contributed into his countries national pension plan. which will he can also start at age 65 to top up his income.

-----------------------------------
y) All star entrepreneur. Had a few failed birck-mortar business in the past, but hit it off with e-commerce. Runs several succesful e-commerce websites as her main income.
She now consults other small business startups, and helps get them started online.
At 64, shes ready to retire. She plans to sell her e-commerce websites, and has offers for the entire package for $1million which will support her retirement plans, coupled with her countries national pension plan.

In addition, she plans to consult for the next 6 years- or as long as she can, as it's a work of passion for her. She makes about $80,000 per year consulting.
---------------------------
z) YouTube star.. jerks of to you tube gurus. Tai Lopez, Gary Vee, Dan Lok, and other YouTube Guru's are his top watch list. Believes in the youtUbe hype. Finishes high school with a C average, doesn't go to university or community college.
Believes he is an entrepreneur cause he had a lemonade stand when he was 12.
laughs at his classmates for living slowlane- going to university/community college to learn things is dumb.
Lives at home with his parents, working at McDoanlds.
During his off time, spends all his time youtubing and writing down his goals.
After watching GVaynerchuk a few more times, decides to 'just do it'. takes a trip to Ibiza and blows all his savings. But records his trip and puts it on youtube.
some people like his videos, and follow his youtube.. his channel grows to 4,000 subscriber.
Youtube Star knows he's made it big.... Leases a BMW and starts making more videos... his subscribers grow to 10,000 followers..
his youtube channel makes $100 per month, his McDick job makes $500 per month. Lives at home and mom and dad pay all the bills..
At 30, not much has changed. He's now a manager at McDonalds. He makes $2000 per month, his youtue channel is down to 2000 subscriebrs..
After all, Youtube Star only puts 3 hours per day into his hustle...
10 years later, he's still a manager at the same mCdonalds. Bitter that he didn't strike gold with his memes, and Youtube channel, he's relagated huimself to the slowlane.. He tries to write a book...
goes through the steps.. but gets 0 sales cause no one cares about a washed up 19 year old that didn't accomplish anything.


---------

See the point here is, no one got rich with 3 hours on their PC per day.. Sure, some strike it rich. But you don't just pass Go and collect your 2 million dollars.
 

Prince33

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Here's your make-belief story, but better.

x) A father of four. Starter in the trades at 19, after finishing high school. Joined the union, make base salary of $35,000 per year, however, with overtime was pulling in $45,000 per year. By 24 he was a certified welder. He was making $75,000, with over time earning $95,000 per year. By 30 years old, he was making $90,000 per year, but with over time, earning $120,000 per year.
Because he is hands on, he bought an investment property at 25, which he rented out, while living with his parents.
When he turned 30, he got married, bought a house with his wife. Today at 60, he has 4 kids, 3 rental properties. A, $50,000 per year pension that he can start today if he wants - and because his trade is in high demand, he can start his pension and STILL EARN income.
His rentals including his principal residence are worth $2million and all paid off. His rentals generate $45,000 of revenue x 3.
As he was an employee all these years, he contributed into his countries national pension plan. which will he can also start at age 65 to top up his income.

-----------------------------------
y) All star entrepreneur. Had a few failed birck-mortar business in the past, but hit it off with e-commerce. Runs several succesful e-commerce websites as her main income.
She now consults other small business startups, and helps get them started online.
At 64, shes ready to retire. She plans to sell her e-commerce websites, and has offers for the entire package for $1million which will support her retirement plans, coupled with her countries national pension plan.

In addition, she plans to consult for the next 6 years- or as long as she can, as it's a work of passion for her. She makes about $80,000 per year consulting.
---------------------------
z) YouTube star.. jerks of to you tube gurus. Tai Lopez, Gary Vee, Dan Lok, and other YouTube Guru's are his top watch list. Believes in the youtUbe hype. Finishes high school with a C average, doesn't go to university or community college.
Believes he is an entrepreneur cause he had a lemonade stand when he was 12.
laughs at his classmates for living slowlane- going to university/community college to learn things is dumb.
Lives at home with his parents, working at McDoanlds.
During his off time, spends all his time youtubing and writing down his goals.
After watching GVaynerchuk a few more times, decides to 'just do it'. takes a trip to Ibiza and blows all his savings. But records his trip and puts it on youtube.
some people like his videos, and follow his youtube.. his channel grows to 4,000 subscriber.
Youtube Star knows he's made it big.... Leases a BMW and starts making more videos... his subscribers grow to 10,000 followers..
his youtube channel makes $100 per month, his McDick job makes $500 per month. Lives at home and mom and dad pay all the bills..
At 30, not much has changed. He's now a manager at McDonalds. He makes $2000 per month, his youtue channel is down to 2000 subscriebrs..
After all, Youtube Star only puts 3 hours per day into his hustle...
10 years later, he's still a manager at the same mCdonalds. Bitter that he didn't strike gold with his memes, and Youtube channel, he's relagated huimself to the slowlane.. He tries to write a book...
goes through the steps.. but gets 0 sales cause no one cares about a washed up 19 year old that didn't accomplish anything.


---------

See the point here is, no one got rich with 3 hours on their PC per day.. Sure, some strike it rich. But you don't just pass Go and collect your 2 million dollars.
That wasn't the point of the question nor post, at all. Also people in the real world who just work work work are way more common than those that save, budget and allocate funds to scale their income. So if anything your story is more make believe. (Even the stats show that). Don't even get me started on lifestyle choices. (car loans, credit, mortgage...) If X was a 'realistic' story, at 25 he would've financed the latest car, one for him and his wife, moved in a nice house with barely any money down on a sub-prime mortgage loan, so now itll take decades to pay the house off plus have more kid(s) he may or may not be able to afford once he got a 'raise'. Pension or not.

My point was if raw work ethic can achieve freedom or a financial goal. Not is it possible to retire and/or earn financial freedom as a ___. If that's the case we can talk about how flipping Pokemon cards at 10 years old can turn you into a multi-millionaire. May take some time but anything is possible with the right mindset. MJ's book is literally called unscripted . If you're unscripted and have the knowledge you can get wealthy(time) doing anything, wasn't my point.
I think what you’re really trying to say is that if it doesn’t matter if all 3 work hard. What matters is if one person made $15/hr and another $50/hr and the third $500/hr.

And on top of that, it matters how they managed their money.

After 10 years it’s certainly possible that the person that made $50 an hour has retired while the one making $500 an hour is still a slave to his job or business.

And in all cases they will be way ahead of the person that was lazy and didn’t work at all.

That's the result of their different outcomes yes but I wouldn't say that's the point. But perhaps in principal yeah.
 

WJK

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That wasn't the point of the question nor post, at all. Also people in the real world who just work work work are way more common than those that save, budget and allocate funds to scale their income. So if anything your story is more make believe. (Even the stats show that). Don't even get me started on lifestyle choices. (car loans, credit, mortgage...) If X was a 'realistic' story, at 25 he would've financed the latest car, one for him and his wife, moved in a nice house with barely any money down on a sub-prime mortgage loan, so now itll take decades to pay the house off plus have more kid(s) he may or may not be able to afford once he got a 'raise'. Pension or not.

My point was if raw work ethic can achieve freedom or a financial goal. Not is it possible to retire and/or earn financial freedom as a ___. If that's the case we can talk about how flipping Pokemon cards at 10 years old can turn you into a multi-millionaire. May take some time but anything is possible with the right mindset. MJ's book is literally called unscripted . If you're unscripted and have the knowledge you can get wealthy(time) doing anything, wasn't my point.


That's the result of their different outcomes yes but I wouldn't say that's the point. But perhaps in principal yeah.
BUT-- you are confusing two parts of the problem -- making the money -- making it grow and keeping it for the future. It doesn't matter how much money you make or how you make it. You will be broke in no time IF you can't manage that pile of cash and your spending. Think about the lottery winners who go broke in no time. Think of the professional athletes and show business people who finish their careers with nothing left. They spent all they made on silly stuff that is meaningless. Like I've said before, most people must make their fortunes 3 times. They loose the first first two and hang on to the third.
 
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Mattie

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I know, it sounds ridiculous. But this is the Fastlane forums. Home of the Unscripted so I probably wouldn't post this anywhere else.

I pose this as a question more than a declaration.

I present three scenarios.

X: A father of four. He gets up, takes care of his family. Pays all the bills on time and hasn't been late or missed a day of work his entire life. Lifting, scrubbing, bending, he's an iron worker, building the skyscrapes in the Dubai skyline. Even when he was sick, he went to the bathroom, threw up and went back to work!!! His coworkers call him THE MACHINE!!! But now he's 64 years old and won't retire. He will have to work atleast 5 more years till his youngest turns 18. And even then he may need social security assistance. Oh and nearly every bone in his body needs to be replaced and he can't stand straight anymore from all the iron working.

Z: She has read 10,000 self help books. Took and paid for 75 courses. Started 44 different online businesses. She's a hustler! She works on her business from 4AM(when she gets up) to 11PM everyday! She cold calls, prospects, executes, doesn't action fake. And this has been her life for 21 years. Now she is 64 years old and still hasn't found a way to retire. She's made plenty money. But she still has to keep working.

I'm sure you guys the point. I don't question if working hard is important. My question is, is it really that important to be truly financially independent, especially fastlane? Or dare I say a "hard" work ethic is even required at all?

Y: He read all MJ's book. Enrolled in Fox's Web school right after. After 3 years of working 3 hours a day from his PC while building his youtube channel he then makes 10K a month from what he learned from Fox, MJ's books and his YT channel. He then establishes a productocracy 5 years later on his 5th business and met his escape number. He retires at 27.

Is working hard truly required to be successful in the 2020s?
I'm not sure if it's something I deliberately do on purpose. It is just a natural drive at times. I suppose it's more a belief as well I rather focus on the growth mindset then sit around and invest my time in something that doesn't add value to my future.

I don't believe everyone has the work ethic like you're talking about, the inner drive, or inner motivation to last that long. If your asking the question, you might not see the point and it's not necessarily about the money.

You can be a farmer work from 4 A.M. until 11 P.M. and not become a Millionaire. Some people just love working and moving around where others may not.

I had a grandfather that worked in his 80's, and didn't have too. I also took care of elders who didn't want to work and sit in the chair all day and watch t.v.

Everyone's work ethic may be different.
 

WJK

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I'm not sure if it's something I deliberately do on purpose. It is just a natural drive at times. I suppose it's more a belief as well I rather focus on the growth mindset then sit around and invest my time in something that doesn't add value to my future.

I don't believe everyone has the work ethic like you're talking about, the inner drive, or inner motivation to last that long. If your asking the question, you might not see the point and it's not necessarily about the money.

You can be a farmer work from 4 A.M. until 11 P.M. and not become a Millionaire. Some people just love working and moving around where others may not.

I had a grandfather that worked in his 80's, and didn't have too. I also took care of elders who didn't want to work and sit in the chair all day and watch t.v.

Everyone's work ethic may be different.
I believe in hard work coupled with working smart. Productive hours make the difference.
 

biophase

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That wasn't the point of the question nor post, at all.

My point was if raw work ethic can achieve freedom or a financial goal.

I don't understand your post then. Your point is if raw work ethic can achieve freedom, the answer is yes.

You seem to think that everything else after raw work ethic is immaterial or besides the point.
 

WJK

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I don't understand your post then. Your point is if raw work ethic can achieve freedom, the answer is yes.

You seem to think that everything else after raw work ethic is immaterial or besides the point.
I agree. Work ethic is a very necessary element in the big bouquet of success skills/habits. Lazy people quit. Lazy people cut corners. Lazy people don't care about their client/customer. Lazy people take more than their share -- they cheat the people around them. Lazy people only focus on their reward rather than the work itself. Lazy people complain a lot and are unhappy. And the list goes on... and the list goes on...
 

Prince33

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BUT-- you are confusing two parts of the problem -- making the money -- making it grow and keeping it for the future. It doesn't matter how much money you make or how you make it. You will be broke in no time IF you can't manage that pile of cash and your spending. Think about the lottery winners who go broke in no time. Think of the professional athletes and show business people who finish their careers with nothing left. They spent all they made on silly stuff that is meaningless. Like I've said before, most people must make their fortunes 3 times. They loose the first first two and hang on to the third.
I agree but that wasn't the point of the thread. The question was does work ethic matter. Not if money management matters. Y could blow all his money the next month after he earned that money. But the point was if work work work gets you to your financial goals. Not what you do with it after the goal is achieved.

Yeah X could've had better money management. But that would defeat the purpose of the thread. Again, you can become a millionaire flipping pokemon cards.

I don't understand your post then. Your point is if raw work ethic can achieve freedom, the answer is yes.

You seem to think that everything else after raw work ethic is immaterial or besides the point.

Not exactly. If raw work ethic can achieve freedom then the answer is yes, but to what degree? I asked "Does work ethic really matter"? Yeah, if you work work work work making 12 an hour and just want to retire in Thailand by 65 raw work ethic can achieve financial freedom, whether you save that money with slowlane tactics or scale it.

But to spoil it, I was asking if raw work ethic really matters in comparison to working smart.

Not if working hard is effective at all.
I agree. Work ethic is a very necessary element in the big bouquet of success skills/habits. Lazy people quit. Lazy people cut corners. Lazy people don't care about their client/customer. Lazy people take more than their share -- they cheat the people around them. Lazy people only focus on their reward rather than the work itself. Lazy people complain a lot and are unhappy. And the list goes on... and the list goes on...

I like that.
 

biophase

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But to spoil it, I was asking if raw work ethic really matters in comparison to working smart.

Not if working hard is effective at all.

I still say yes it does, because you can't work smart without actually working.

Let's say that instead of physically mowing lawns, I tell you to call 20 kids in the neighborhood and find 1 kids that will work for $5 per lawn. If you don't make the 20 calls, does working smart matter?
 

WJK

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I agree but that wasn't the point of the thread. The question was does work ethic matter. Not if money management matters. Y could blow all his money the next month after he earned that money. But the point was if work work work gets you to your financial goals. Not what you do with it after the goal is achieved.

Yeah X could've had better money management. But that would defeat the purpose of the thread. Again, you can become a millionaire flipping pokemon cards.



Not exactly. If raw work ethic can achieve freedom then the answer is yes, but to what degree? I asked "Does work ethic really matter"? Yeah, if you work work work work making 12 an hour and just want to retire in Thailand by 65 raw work ethic can achieve financial freedom, whether you save that money with slowlane tactics or scale it.

But to spoil it, I was asking if raw work ethic really matters in comparison to working smart.

Not if working hard is effective at all.


I like that.
I love to work. It's interesting and draws me in. It gives me purpose -- a reason to get up in the morning. I love to learn new things. Working evolves and requires new skills all the time. If I only worked 3 hours per day, I'd be bored. And I'm good at making and keeping money -- so I can take that nest egg and go do something else. You want to go sail the world. For how long? What would you do all day? People without purpose get old fast. People who don't contribute to their communities turn inward. It's all about them, not serving other people. I could have stopped working years ago. Officially I'm retired, but I'm not good at it. I'm not interested in watching the world go by while I sit in a corner.
 

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