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Discussion on the value of college degrees, even in business.

Yankee427

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I feel like you just need to have that drive that you can't teach someone to not go to college and try and go out on your own. Most people since its so ingrained into our society to go to college and get a good secure job that they don't think of any other way. Most people would rather just sit on the couch and watch tv and hope success comes to them some time, even though its always elusive. College also doesn't guarantee anyone success. It's all what you do with your circumstances and using your time wisely. College is a great test if you aren't ready to go out on your own, to make sure your self discipline is there.

It's why a very small fraction of the population have the type of success that makes them real money.
 

Yankee427

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I think I worded that wrong haha. Oh ok, that's some serious success. I always like to see success stories of everyday people who made it without college. Did you liquidate the company?

If you get an INSIDERS membership, you can see threads where people dropped everything in their life and moved and flew out to him just to be a part of his current company.
 

NicoleMarie

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I feel like you just need to have that drive that you can't teach someone to not go to college and try and go out on your own. Most people since its so ingrained into our society to go to college and get a good secure job that they don't think of any other way. Most people would rather just sit on the couch and watch tv and hope success comes to them some time, even though its always elusive. College also doesn't guarantee anyone success. It's all what you do with your circumstances and using your time wisely. College is a great test if you aren't ready to go out on your own, to make sure your self discipline is there.

It's why a very small fraction of the population have the type of success that makes them real money.

I agree, people with degrees aren't even guaranteed jobs currently. It almost seems LESS risky to start a business nowadays, if you have the knowledge. College also serves as my way to "ease into things." I'm definitely not there yet haha and college will help me ease into being on my own for sure, not to mention I'll be away from home stress.
 

NicoleMarie

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If you get an INSIDERS membership, you can see threads where people dropped everything in their life and moved and flew out to him just to be a part of his current company.

I would totally do that. I'm planning to get a membership soon. Now that sounds like moving with purpose, not just moving for the sun (which hopefully I'll also do someday). I have several non art related ideas that I'm actually pretty confident with. :)
 
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Nadia

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biggest pile of bullshit.

2 attorneys were arguing back and forth, one went to Harvard one went to Duke, both were bragging about their school. this went on for 10 min.
I Finally said shut up, you both work for me, and your wasting my time and money.

I never got a college degree.

Z


LOL!! I am quoting this. Best thing I have read all day.
 

Daniel A

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Here are two real world examples of recent college graduates and how they are doing (in terms of getting a job; which is what most students are hoping for). They're not entrepreneurial (at least for now). I tried.

Guy 1.
Majored in Economics.

  • Was applying for multiple jobs everyday over the summer. He has no job right now.

Guy 2.
Majored in Business. Concentrated in Management.

  • Had a job lined up for him before he even graduated.

Besides the major, what do I believe helped one out more than the other? In short, the social aspect of college.

Guy 2 was in the fraternity Delta Sigma Pi (professional business fraternity) which helped him meet a lot of people. Guy 1 was not a member of any fraternity. I don't believe the fraternity itself was the value, but the networking was. The fraternity just helped with the networking. Fraternity / sorority or not ... it takes personal initiative to network with people who will help (which can be done outside of college too).

PS: I recently bought the book: "What Next? The Millennial's Guide to Surviving and Thriving in the Real World" by Michael Price a few days ago. It was written by a "millennial" who apparently had success in both the corporate world AND as an entrepreneur. I'll post cliffs here or in another thread with the best insights once I finish it. It may take some time though.

PPS: Guy 2 also worked really hard on campus to help him earn money and scholarships. Major respect for him even if he is an employee forever. That might be another significant difference between the two.
 

samuraijack

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It's really as simple as this...if you're already working or above the age of 20, there's really no reason for you to go to college. You want to learn skills? Everything can be learned online or through books. You want to get a job? There's work everywhere seriously, go on craigslist and there are thousands of job postings. The job pays shitty? Who cares, at this point money is for necessities like food and rent, and to fund some fastlane activities, that's it.

I failed at college the first time around, and then I did a bit better. Then I tried again, getting A's in all my classes. What a load of shit. Who are those A's for? They won't make me a better businessman or give me the life I want.
 
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The-J

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OP: your issue has more to do with people's perceptions than the actual value of a college degree.

Young people with diplomas and college degrees have lower rates of unemployment than their peers (source). But that's jobs. I've bought lots of things and I have no idea where the CEOs of those companies went to school, nor do I care. Nor does anyone else (save a very small minority, members of which I've never met).

College can be useful for networking (if you go to a good school). There are classes that can help you understand business fundamentals. You have easy access to mentors who may take an interest in you.

But you can do all of this stuff out of college, too. College just puts it all in one place, for a low low low low price of $xx,xxx a year! WOW!

Go if you want to, or if you're trying to buy your way into a country with a favorable business tax structure* for residents while living off of a hefty financial aid package, while at the same time getting access to the awesome facilities that a world-ranked university has to offer. (But I only know of one person in this scenario.)

*If your business meets certain criteria. Ask a tax professional, or at least someone who knows better than I. Don't PM me about this.
 

Vigilante

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Here are two real world examples of recent college graduates and how they are doing (in terms of getting a job; which is what most students are hoping for). They're not entrepreneurial (at least for now). I tried.

Guy 1.
Majored in Economics.

  • Was applying for multiple jobs everyday over the summer. He has no job right now.

Guy 2.
Majored in Business. Concentrated in Management.

  • Had a job lined up for him before he even graduated.

Besides the major, what do I believe helped one out more than the other? In short, the social aspect of college.

Guy 2 was in the fraternity Delta Sigma Pi (professional business fraternity) which helped him meet a lot of people. Guy 1 was not a member of any fraternity. I don't believe the fraternity itself was the value, but the networking was. The fraternity just helped with the networking. Fraternity / sorority or not ... it takes personal initiative to network with people who will help (which can be done outside of college too).

PS: I recently bought the book: "What Next? The Millennial's Guide to Surviving and Thriving in the Real World" by Michael Price a few days ago. It was written by a "millennial" who apparently had success in both the corporate world AND as an entrepreneur. I'll post cliffs here or in another thread with the best insights once I finish it. It may take some time though.

PPS: Guy 2 also worked really hard on campus to help him earn money and scholarships. Major respect for him even if he is an employee forever. That might be another significant difference between the two.


Interesting point on the greek system. My daughter and son both were greek during college. The networking and life skills they gained in their sorority and fraternity were invaluable. In fact, my son just met the founder of ESPN a few days ago, solely because of his fraternity connection. One could make the case based on the greek society alone that college is worthwhile to gain admittance into that private, life long club.
 
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NicoleMarie

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You guys, I don't know why this thread was revived lol but it was made when I first joined the forum and is no longer relevant. Thanks anyways for your opinions.
 

Daniel A

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@NicoleMarie That was my fault. I was looking at the Forum FAQs > College > Then your thread headline got me...because I'm actually working towards a business degree and I was having doubts earlier. I'm glad you made your decision. Also, my apologies ahead of time because this thread is about to be bumped once I reply.

Anyways, doubts about the opportunity cost of my time, energy, money, etc. Plus just trying to figure out what would be best for me long term. I'm not asking for advice on college (I asked before) and I understand it's ultimately up to me to decide. I'm going to stay enrolled, but I'll do my best to make the most of it in a way that translates into the "real world" and towards entrepreneurship. Advice on making the most of it is welcome though.

@Vigilante They're college graduates and have an entrepreneur dad, nice! :) That's another significant example of the social benefits that may come with the help of college. The sports industry and TV (still), is big money. Plus it's great to just be around people like that. I'm sure that won't be the only time he meets similar people because of his affiliation. Like you said, it's life long admittance into a club.

"Guy 2" that I mentioned earlier said that at one of the national events he went to, Adam Carolla (very popular podcaster) was a speaker. I doubt he met him personally, but if he had a relevant reason to he most likely could have.

By the way you're probably right about that. Social benefits via college is something realistic that can transfer to entrepreneurship. I'm definitely motivated to join a fraternity once I transfer (which is why I was meeting some of the guys ahead of time). Delta Sigma Pi is a co-ed "fraternity" ... but it is a professional business one so maybe. There are four others that I'm interested in. There's benefits outside of being Greek too. I've been to general university events over the years with some very influential/successful people as speakers. I wasn't even a student there (so anyone else can do the same). I was in high school at the time, but I've been around this particular university since elementary school. Potential business partners as fellow students could be another social benefit. "Guy 1" isn't entrepreneurial, but he told me that he knew two guys who completely funded their campaign on KickStarter and started a business while in college.

College can also provide access to fully equipped labs / people who know how to use them and entrepreneur competitions where the winner(s) get funding w/o giving up equity.

Anyways, that's just my idealistic vision. I'll discover the reality soon enough.

PS: I'm not fixated on relying on any of that. Skills (copwriting, etc.), Habits, Mindset and a few other things are what I have been and will work on. Then the next steps...

PPS: I've been looking into e-commerce / importing and I have some ideas of where I can start. I found quality books (and more) on the topic to learn from. Woo Commerce / WordPress seems easier / cheaper, but I was told Shopify is best long-term. Just need to keep doing what I know (or believe) I need to do. I've also read Coalission's posts and he does have valid points on some of the this vs. that. Anyways, less talk and more doing for me. Going to quietly work...

Literally missed sleep last night :yawn: :dead:
 

NicoleMarie

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That was my fault. I was looking at the Forum FAQs > College > Then your thread headline got me...because I'm actually working towards a business degree and I was having doubts earlier. I'm glad you made your decision. Also, my apologies ahead of time because this thread is about to be bumped once I reply.

Anyways, doubts about the opportunity cost of my time, energy, money, etc. Plus just trying to figure out what would be best for me long term. I'm not asking for advice on college (I asked before) and I understand it's ultimately up to me to decide. I'm going to stay enrolled, but I'll do my best to make the most of it in a way that translates into the "real world" and towards entrepreneurship. Advice on making the most of it is welcome though.

Ha no problem. :p I actually didn't end up going and I felt relieved that I didn't have to deal with the time, money, certain unappealing classes, and living with random people lol. Self teaching and getting experience has been way faster and more enjoyable, not to mention easier to stay current.
 
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Daniel A

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certain unappealing classes

That's the most annoying one! I thought I would enjoy them, but I don't :joyful: There were some that I would have definitely enjoyed though, except they provided worthless credits so I avoided them.

When I first joined the forum I believe it was while I was taking a break from college and I can recall that feeling of relief, lol. The primary psychological thing I can't let go of is my significantly reduced tuition. Without that I wouldn't even bother with college.

Learning is WAY better through experience and even self-teaching, never stop those. :writing::bookworm:
 

The-J

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You guys, I don't know why this thread was revived lol but it was made when I first joined the forum and is no longer relevant. Thanks anyways for your opinions.

No longer relevant to YOU, maybe, but I think this'll help some poor sap in the future trying to figure out whether to go to college or not
 

NicoleMarie

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No longer relevant to YOU, maybe, but I think this'll help some poor sap in the future trying to figure out whether to go to college or not
The reason I said me is because "OP" was mentioned, which I assume means original poster, and I didn't want people to waste their time trying to convince me of something I already decided months ago, ha. For everyone else, I think there are better threads on here about the topic but go wild. :p
 
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rcdlopez

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She says people these days won't take me seriously or trust me unless I have that ever important degree.

People treat me seriously and I don't have a degree. In fact when they discover I don't have an engineering or computer science degree and I do what I do they look at me like puzzled. Also my director of technology is one of the smartest computer programmers I know and he doesn't have a computer science degree just a degree in history...

And that guys has worked for big named companies in tech!
 

joocenasty

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“I’d rather be a hungry lion in the wild, than a well fed lion in a cage.”

oh and @Vigilante you really kicked me in the a$$ and out into the world in my thread, thank you.
 

Daniel A

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From:
The the desk that I sat down at -- in the student library. I'm alone, sad and bored -- just kidding! :D

Dear Fastlane Forum member,

I've finally started my first business classes. An accounting class and a business law class.

Both of them are actually pretty cool (as well as the professors) and believe it or not...

I am learning new and useful things.

There are some *hidden* benefits too.

I have several very attractive classmates (one of which I'm particularly interested in and it's very clear that the interest is mutual). BUT...

That's not important right now...

.
.

What's important is...

I really, really, really value my time now. I'm still getting used to the schedule, but I've suddenly become extremely productive. Even though I have more to do now, haha.

I have some breaks in between my classes and this is usually what I do with that time...

  1. Hand-write sales copy.
  2. Go through specific self-study courses.
Anyways, I just wanted to post on the forum since it's been a while...

.
.

P.S. I haven't forgot that I said I'd post "cliffs" on the book I mentioned above. ^ As of now I only read Kindle books on my phone and spontaneously when I have just a few minutes of time. So it's going to take longer than I expected.

P.P.S. Let's see how things go with that girl I mentioned earlier... ;)

~ Daniel "The Student Library Dweller" Argueta



One last note. I think there's someone who monitors the websites we visit while using the WiFi. I got kicked off before I could post this. WTF? They're trying to hold me back from becoming free. It's a conspiracy! Uncle Sam will have none of that. *Uncle Sam Looks Deep Into Your Eyes and Points At You*
 
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Runum

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I have seen and experienced several sides of this argument.

I worked in oil and defense equipment production factories for 22 years. I was in labor on the shop floors. I operated and programmed CNC's from the early days of when they ran directly of off tapes to fairly modern 5 axis machining centers. I really enjoyed creating something from a chunk of metal. I also enjoyed creating the programs that could make the parts.

I recognized that one 5 axis CNC could put 10 guys out of work immediately AND that the machine could be moved to another country overnight. I watched full shops operating 3 shifts 6 days a week go through layoff after layoff until the shop closed. I watched many very TALENTED, grown men cry. I have seen the security guards escort men out as if they are criminals.

I only got layed off once in 22 years and that factory closed. I was always learning and making myself valuable/ indispensable. All of that was up to me. My coworkers spent their time bitching and moaning about labor problems and throwing up roadblocks to progress.

I always wanted to be an engineer. I like designing. However, many factories use engineers as middle management. I did not want to manage people, I wanted to create. I don't think I would have been a good manager, AKA cog in the management machine.

I was also getting tired of the boom/bust cycle and decided on a different direction. I wanted to be a shop teacher and like training people and I have a background in this shop stuff.

Problem, many schools don't have shop anymore. I became a science teacher instead and I really like it. Been doing it for 12 years now.

Not everyone is college material and should not be pushed that way, agreed. However, many not college students mistakenly believe they will learn a skill or trade and be set for life. They want an employer to take care of them. That is a terrible belief.

The college bound students buy into the "get good grades get a good job" mantra. Ultimately, most of them also want an employer to take care of them.

I see fear and the majority on both sides want someone to protect them. I don't think massive student debt for college is the answer but there are many different alternatives to that choice. It IS a choice.

College or not, we need to teach students to learn for themselves, solve problems, and become valuable contributors in whatever direction they choose.

We also need to teach that no one is on this Earth to take care of you, however, that would scare the masses and parents don't want their children scared.

College is a good choice for the right reasons and the right circumstances. No college is also an equally acceptable choice as well.

Either way, people need to become their own agents and responsible for their own choices. Quit the blame game.
 
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MotiveInMotion

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How's the "backup plan" working for a lot of college graduates? Having a degree being a "backup plan" is a huge myth, and a costly one at that. Just ask the thousands of college grads who are bartending, waiting tables, and pouring coffee. How's that backup plan working for ya? Instead of having a backup, their backed up to a mountain of debt. Not the "back" they thought they were getting, wouldncha say?
Exactly. Backup plans don't work anyways, just commit to your mission and don't detract with other plans
 

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